Replies: 16
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Hall of Famer [21577]
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Violent protest!
Sep 9, 2020, 11:24 AM
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#truth
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Hall of Famer [24777]
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Is this "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly"? I see the bridge.***
Sep 9, 2020, 11:28 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83125]
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Where’s the grave with the gold?***
Sep 9, 2020, 11:41 AM
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Heisman Winner [137949]
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No, see, that was different.***
Sep 9, 2020, 11:29 AM
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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Were the civil war only about slavery, that would be correct
Sep 9, 2020, 11:35 AM
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I'm not sure how that narrative has become popular in recent history, but I guess it has.
As bad as redneck racists are now...does anyone really think that they would fight to kill their brother over a black man?
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Hall of Famer [21577]
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Here we go.....***
Sep 9, 2020, 11:39 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83125]
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Hall of Famer [22947]
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Regional pride, blind loyalty, and fooled by folks in charge
Sep 9, 2020, 12:00 PM
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Is that so different today?
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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Slavery was the root of it, but it was far from the only
Sep 9, 2020, 12:02 PM
[ in reply to Less than 10% of the South owned slaves but there would ] |
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reason.
The north was pretty aggressive with taxation, and wanted to ban slavery in the western states the south wanted to move into. The pressure to end slavery was part of the excessive taxation. The south (collectively) felt as if the government wanted to control their politics and future economic plans. And to an extent, that was true.
Slavery was certainly the vehicle, but perceived (and real) political and economic control was the reason.
As you said, basically slave ownership was only for the rich. The average southerner simply couldn't afford slaves; many poor land owner farmers didn't want nor need them. But obviously, the average man felt strong enough about the attempted economic and political pressures being placed by the US Government (the north) they'd go to war about it, many times against their own family. As bad as blacks have been treated before and since then, simple logic tells me that the folks who were treating blacks as property (even if they themselves couldn't afford a slave) weren't willing to die for them.
There are a lot of papers and studies out there about the ruling class elite of the south who owned slaves and saw slavery as the way to grow their fortune, but they were definitely in the minority. However, there's not much written about the majority of "plain folks" who didn't own slaves, and had more in common with the slave's lifestyle than the ruling elite.
Here are a couple articles that are interesting in that regard
https://networks.h-net.org/node/11465/discussions/4297558/poor-whites-antebellum-us-south-topical-guide
https://jacobinmag.com/2019/08/poor-whites-have-been-written-out-of-history-for-a-very-political-reason
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Oculus Spirit [83125]
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True. There were other issues in play, but none so
Sep 9, 2020, 3:13 PM
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emotional to go to war over.
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110%er [7207]
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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actually...
Sep 9, 2020, 1:20 PM
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when slavery really started to take off with the import of hundreds of thousands of slaves in the south in 1830's-1840's, poor white workers quickly found themselves with no income; their farm labor jobs had been replaced by slave labor.
The poor white worker who had no other ability to earn a living was even with animals in the woods hunting for his own survival, and trading in a black market economy to stay alive.
They were the dirt under the ladder.
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110%er [7207]
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Just to be clear
Sep 9, 2020, 2:29 PM
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are you trying to say that poor white people had it worse than a group of people who were considered other people's property? This way of thinking explains so much.
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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Worse? I'm not sure I'd say that.
Sep 9, 2020, 3:19 PM
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Is it better to be dead, or enslaved?
Seems like a pretty chitty choice to make.
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All-In [42170]
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Oculus Spirit [81061]
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I think this is a bit ingenuous.
Sep 9, 2020, 3:22 PM
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Do you think the 99% of confederate soldiers who didn't own slaves were dying because they felt slavery was how their family would ultimately survive?
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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since we are stretching on our analogies...
Sep 9, 2020, 11:49 AM
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Is this more like BLM or the Confederate States?
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