Replies: 18
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All-In [26968]
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I pretty strongly disagree with this idea of
Jan 10, 2019, 12:16 PM
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declaring a "national emergency" to get around Congress making laws. It sets a dangerous precedent. You don't just call something you don't like about our laws a "national emergency" so you can get around the laws. What if the next President declared an emergency over gun violence and decided we needed to round them up? Is the national debt an emergency, that would allow a President to decide to double our taxes or eliminate Medicare?
Will anyone here defend a declaration of "national emergency"? What makes it so, to you?
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All-In [47798]
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slippery slope?
Jan 10, 2019, 12:24 PM
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Its sort of what happened in the late Roman republic starting with Marius and Sulla and ending in Augustus.
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Oculus Spirit [97730]
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Wholly inuendo Batman.
Jan 10, 2019, 12:28 PM
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No one has a "right" to swim a river and walk into the United States, get a job, start a family, get food stamps and get free medical treatment through medicaid, sell drugs, or whatever. We DO have a right (as citizens again) to own guns.
Medicare is not a right either. Social Security is not a right. Your government job is not a right.
ALL that can be ended, cut, eliminated, whatever. Except guns. WITHOUT a "national emergency".
Only national emergency I see is all these folks granting essentially 7+ billion people American "rights".
As for our "laws", they're not being enforced. Trump tried and was literally eviscerated for doing exactly that. In fact, he enforced the "law" exactly the same way Bill Clinton did, and somehow now it's a problem.
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All-In [26968]
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Never said anything about rights, so not going there...
Jan 10, 2019, 12:34 PM
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I'm talking about there being laws on the books. One such type of law is the appropriation of funds, which is the responsibility of Congress. If the President does not like how those funds are appropriated, he should not just declare an emergency to get around those laws.
I noticed you did not defend the declaration of an emergency, on the merits of the actual situation at hand. Which is what has to happen for the declaration to be legitimate.
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Oculus Spirit [97730]
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You did when you mentioned guns. Which is why
Jan 10, 2019, 1:47 PM
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I had to point it out.
As for laws, there are other laws on the books, about citizenship and how to enter, live in, and work in America, legally. If a President does not like those laws, he should NOT be allowed to just refuse to enforce them. If the American people don't like them, then Congress should change them.
And I do not defend the declaration of an emergency. This has been an emergency for three decades now. An emergency was what FDR did in WW2 with Japanese internment camps. And those were legal citizens of the United States. Rights were violated, hence the need for an emergency declaration. Heck, Trump could start internment camps for illegal aliens if he wanted to, without an emergency being declared. They're not citizens. He could send them all home. Literally. So yes, the declaration of an emergency is overkill and not necessary.
I'd be digging through Pentagon funding right now finding stuff that's not earmarked by Congress, then pick and choose $5 billion and build the wall. I promise you more than $5 billion has already been sent OUTSIDE of the country by those currently working here illegally, since the shutdown began. Or maybe just buy $2 bolts.
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All-In [26968]
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If he can find a way to use existing funds
Jan 10, 2019, 1:50 PM
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that can legally be used for such a purpose, I have no problem with that.
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CU Medallion [60043]
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All-In [26968]
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What do you mean?
Jan 10, 2019, 2:05 PM
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I didn't know there was a competition I was trying to "win" or "lose".
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Re: What do you mean?
Jan 10, 2019, 2:06 PM
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You are the definition of insufferable.
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All-In [26968]
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Might I suggest to you not clicking on my posts?
Jan 10, 2019, 2:08 PM
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Then that would easily stop your "suffering".
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All-In [42195]
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You really don't see...
Jan 10, 2019, 2:34 PM
[ in reply to Wholly inuendo Batman. ] |
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How setting this precedent could really go south?
Why would you want one man to be able to circumvent the Constitution this easily?
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Oculus Spirit [97730]
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I was all up with you till the last sentence.
Jan 10, 2019, 4:29 PM
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Yes, I see how it could go south. It's not needed.
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Legend [16259]
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It's the executive branch's duty to enforce the laws,
Jan 10, 2019, 6:44 PM
[ in reply to Wholly inuendo Batman. ] |
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not make them. This admin seems to be doing a pretty lousy job of enforcing laws so far when it comes to our border and border security, not to mention overall national security. Trump has DOJ institute a 'zero tolerance' back in the summer with 'zero' plan or preparation to implement. Hundreds of border pick-ups being dropped off en masse in the middle of the night in El Paso last month? Allowing funding to stop for the very DHS, border, immigration, TSA, etc. that protects us, putting us all in jeopardy? Not impressed.
Lincoln took away 1st Amendment 'rights', and several others alongside of course, via his suspending the writ of habeas corpus during the War of Northern Aggression. Had journalists, and other citizens, offering constitional and other counter points at the time not been imprisoned and held without due process, we might not have actually gone so deep into war and all suffered so much destruction.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Wholly inuendo Batman. False Premises
Jan 11, 2019, 2:58 PM
[ in reply to Wholly inuendo Batman. ] |
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It never ceases to amaze me the relative unimportance of facts for some people.
Let's look at some of false premises.
You are right, no one has a 'right' to cross a river and waltz into our country. Actually, it's illegal. But then you cloud you're point with false information. Illegal immigrants are not eligible for food stamps or Medicaid and it is illegal for American's to 'give them a job'. Those are common misconceptions repeatedly fed by the right.
Medicare and Social Security is an absolute right for American citizens. Those are not entitlement programs. You pay for both out of your paycheck every month. Period. Yet another false narrative pushed by the right.
"Only national emergency I see is all these folks granting essentially 7+ billion people American "rights"." Yet another false narrative pushed by Fox News entertainers and the right in general. (Incidentally, there are only about 6 Billion people on the earth in total."
If the "laws are not being enforced" that is 100% the province of Herr Trump and his administration.
You don't like immigrants, fine. But all of us should be able to make their points without making up false information and passing it along.
Stop watching Fox News and you might get a better idea of what the truth is.
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110%er [9666]
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Well over 7 billion people on Earth...but, continue***
Jan 11, 2019, 3:15 PM
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All-In [26968]
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All the talk about "dictatorship" is mostly hyperbole...
Jan 10, 2019, 12:36 PM
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If done, this would be the first legitimate and significant autocratic effort, to my mind, by this President.
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All-In [28802]
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Very similar to what Obama did on DACA***
Jan 10, 2019, 1:29 PM
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All-In [47798]
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yep***
Jan 10, 2019, 1:40 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97730]
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Which isn't as bad as what Bill Clinton did
Jan 10, 2019, 1:48 PM
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Trump tried that and was lit up.
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