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Topic: Interesting 2 recruiting guys from 247Sports stated that Clemson could easily have..
Replies: 26   Last Post: May 28, 2020 3:52 PM by: partsunknown
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Interesting 2 recruiting guys from 247Sports stated that Clemson could easily have..

[18]
Posted: May 27, 2020 11:32 PM
 

classes ranked 1, 2 or 3 notches higher each year than their regular national rankings IF Dabo & Staff offered & took more top ranked recruits even though they could be trouble makers or not fit in at Clemson..but instead bypass them.

Says it all..All-In or not in at all.

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FSU under Bimbo is a perfect example of what will eventually

[13]
Posted: May 27, 2020 11:58 PM
 

happen if you get those types of players. Crusty Crablegs won them a Natty, but, according to their own fanbase, if you believe BretFSU, Bimbo's kid gloves handling of him is what eventually lost him the team. Look at the crash and burn that followed. No Thank You. I will stick with Dabo's culture any day.

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Re: FSU under Bimbo is a perfect example of what will eventually

[2]
Posted: May 28, 2020 12:12 AM
 

Ain't dat duh troof.


"Character is destiny." -- Hericlitus

[7]
Posted: May 28, 2020 2:11 AM
 

Urban Meyer left UF in part because he had recruited some extremely talent kids who helped him win 2 NCs but he lost control of the team. A few thugs infected the team.

Character evaluation is an important part of recruiting decisions.


Re: "Character is destiny." -- Hericlitus

[1]
Posted: May 28, 2020 8:56 AM
 

Anyone who doesn't believe that it's important should read this article. I wouldn't change a thing about the way Dabo recruits and builds the team. Admittedly it's much easier to pick and choose from the best at this point.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/florida-gators/os-sp-aaron-hernandez-suicide-mike-bianchi-0420-story.html

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Re: "Character is destiny." -- Hericlitus

[1]
Posted: May 28, 2020 10:07 AM
 


Anyone who doesn't believe that it's important should read this article. I wouldn't change a thing about the way Dabo recruits and builds the team. Admittedly it's much easier to pick and choose from the best at this point.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/florida-gators/os-sp-aaron-hernandez-suicide-mike-bianchi-0420-story.html




Plus there were other bad actors at UF that openly defied Urban.

and don't forget that a back-up QB got caught stealing a computer from his teammate, and other acts. Cam Newton thus moved on.

That had to be the biggest cesspool of humanity on any college campus ever.


Re: "Character is destiny." -- Hericlitus


Posted: May 28, 2020 10:27 AM
 

Ha! You must have missed the 80s and 90s my friend. Oklahoma, Miami, Nebraska and even Colorado for a few brief years. Character was not even on the radar of many coaches during those years. The quality of the young men playing at Clemson today is so far beyond what I grew up seeing in colleges it boggles the mind. And I don’t think it’s limited to Clemson either. There are some great young men representing their schools.

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Apparently Francois and Nyqwan Murray were really

[1]
Posted: May 28, 2020 8:22 AM
 

bad apples too.

2020 white level member

Re: FSU under Bimbo is a perfect example of what will eventually

[5]
Posted: May 28, 2020 8:44 AM
 

Exactly. Recuriting "thugs" may get you short term success, but it will never get you long term success. (Jimbo, Urban Meyer, Barry Switzer, etc. They have to move from one job to another every few years. They can't maintain success in any one place. I would put Charlie Pell on that list as well.)

Bobby Bowden had 3 hurdles that all recruits had to jump. (They had to jump all three, no matter how good they were in 2 of them, if they didn'tjump the third one, they were out.)

1. Athletic ability.
2. Academic ability.
3. Character.

A word on the third one. Most of us would be shocked at where many of the kids grow up. You can't measure "character" as objectively as you can the other two. So, every coach has to "take a chance" on character. You evaluate it as best you can, but you still can't get it right every time. Every coach misses on some of them. But, you can't just ignore character. A team full of bad apples will destroy the good apples among them.

Bobby told a recruiting story years ago. He went to a home of a "five star" (but that was back in the days before stars were invented) recruit. He said after 15 minutes he knew he wasn't gonna offer the kid a ship. Why? He was disrespectful to his mother. He was continually ordering her around (I need a coke. Get me one. When is supper gonna be ready? I'm hungry. Etc.) interrupting her when she was talking to Bobby, and other "little things." Bobby said, "If a boy ain't gonna respect his momma, then he an't gonna respect his coaches."


I have been told that I would be shocked by some of the

[4]
Posted: May 28, 2020 7:15 AM
 

players that we have passed on. All I can say is....it does not appear to have hurt us. I mean, has there been a more successful program, with less trouble in the past 25 years? Quickly, who was the last guy we had in trouble? ......

2020 white level member

Re: I have been told that I would be shocked by some of the

[2]
Posted: May 28, 2020 7:16 AM
 



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Do former players count?

[2]
Posted: May 28, 2020 8:10 AM
 

Is there a statute of limitations?

Do we include players that we dismissed from the team? A recent "former Clemson player" that only stayed a few months that was charged with murder comes to mind.

Just wondering about the ground rules here...

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I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me.


Once a Tiger, alway a Tiger...

[4]
Posted: May 28, 2020 8:27 AM
 

I wish we'd all leave this sort of thing alone, be thankful Tommy Bowden & now Dabo do all they can upfront to avoid the sometimes inevitable.

People do choose to do stupid things, the head-scratchers; it happens.

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Pig

Re: Once a Tiger, alway a Tiger...

[3]
Posted: May 28, 2020 8:43 AM
 

Agreed


Re: Once a Tiger, alway a Tiger...

[1]
Posted: May 28, 2020 3:52 PM
 

No sh--, it's like begging for trouble-


Re: I have been told that I would be shocked by some of the

[2]
Posted: May 28, 2020 7:48 AM
 

Chad Kelly comes to mind.

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Do players that we dismissed from the team count?

[1]
Posted: May 28, 2020 8:12 AM
 

Tigernet seemed to argue that this one doesn't count.

https://thespun.com/acc/clemson-tigers/desmond-brown-arrest-obstructing-officer-misdemeanor-double-homicide-murder-rome-georgia-clemson-football

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I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me.


Sure it does, he was welcomed w/ open arms into the family..

[1]
Posted: May 28, 2020 8:29 AM
 

People being people, trying to excuse an error in judgement away from the staff? It happens.

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What does "count" even mean here?

[3]
Posted: May 28, 2020 8:37 AM
 

There are obviously many different degrees for these things. Regarding Brown i would assume the staff didn't get to know him quite well enough during the recruiting process to realize he was going to be problem, and then pretty quickly booted him out when they did. What needed to transpire here for that to "count" against Swinney and his staff? If they knew he was trouble and took him anyway that might "count" against them. I doubt that happened, but maybe it did. If they knew he was trouble, took him anyway, and then he committed some heinous crime on campus that would obviously "count" against Swinney. That definitely did not happen.

On the far end of the spectrum you have coaches recruiting guys with known issues, covering up incidents, giving guys 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances, etc. And if you do that to the extreme you end up with a Baylor situation. Jimbo's FSU wasn't Baylor-level bad, but he was clearly taking guys with known character issues, and then, rather than ridding the team of bad apples, he was just enabling them at FSU. That plus some big whiffs evaluating prospects took FSU from 14-0 national champs to a dumpster fire in about 4 years. If you doubt any of that, Bud Elliott talks about it all in some episodes of the Nolecast i happened to listen to a year or two ago.

2020 white level member

Swinney has had the recent luxury of not taking risks, which

[2]
Posted: May 28, 2020 8:42 AM
 

he had stated in the past they did or would if the recruit's coaches, teachers, family, people supported the good kid, bad situation notion or other...

They are the most thorough staff in the game from all I've seen, mistakes happen, but those mistakes are 100% on the staff.

All of them.



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I don't have a problem with coaches making mistakes


Posted: May 28, 2020 9:15 AM
 

during the recruiting and evaluating process. Everyone makes mistakes. What matters is what they do next.

2020 white level member

I have no issue w/ mistakes, but I do have an issue when...

[1]
Posted: May 28, 2020 9:26 AM
 

people try to put distance between coaches & what's 100% the staff's responsibility, most certainly Clemson's.

There's not a more meticulous staff in college football.

Chad Kelly seems a layup they missed, but I'd expect Dabo & staff to feel they could do more good for young people such as Chad. Even feel as people of faith they have a responsibility of sorts to try to reach them in the right situation.

<3 what Tommy Bowden & Dabo have brought to Clemson and the process...

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Re: Interesting 2 recruiting guys from 247Sports stated that Clemson could easily have..

[1]
Posted: May 28, 2020 8:27 AM
 

A team with quality character players translates to winning.


Re: Interesting 2 recruiting guys from 247Sports stated that Clemson could easily have..


Posted: May 28, 2020 10:25 AM
 

Is there any responsibility to take in some who are marginal and help them become better people?


Hah... you can say or pretend whatever you want to, but


Posted: May 28, 2020 1:02 PM
 

in the vast majority of cases the only players that are being "helped to become better people" are really talented ones that can help the football team. Coaches aren't out there bringing in 2* players with character issues just so they can mentor them and help turn their lives around. They are bringing in blue chip prospects with character issues with the hopes that they can keep them out of trouble and benefit from their presence on the team. I'm sure a lot of these coaches would also like to help these kids become better people, but i assure you that's almost always a secondary consideration. They have to have the right talent:baggage ratio first.

2020 white level member

Re: Hah... you can say or pretend whatever you want to, but


Posted: May 28, 2020 3:47 PM
 


in the vast majority of cases the only players that are being "helped to become better people" are really talented ones that can help the football team. Coaches aren't out there bringing in 2* players with character issues just so they can mentor them and help turn their lives around. They are bringing in blue chip prospects with character issues with the hopes that they can keep them out of trouble and benefit from their presence on the team. I'm sure a lot of these coaches would also like to help these kids become better people, but i assure you that's almost always a secondary consideration. They have to have the right talent:baggage ratio first.




Of course the payoff must balance the risk, but most teams will take a few.

This year UGA signed the RB from TX, extreme upside, then let him go. LSU passed on his request to sign. I think he infected TCU.


quality over quantity works better in a lot of things***


Posted: May 28, 2020 12:46 PM
 




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