Great Read on OL and DL Size & Weight - High School to NFL

Jul 11, 2018, 8:03 AM

Sorry if this has been posted before. My cousin sent me this last night because we had talking about our OL and DL recruiting... I had mostly me complaining about that we need some big 5 & 4* linemen. I'm sure some of you guys might enjoy this read.

Where Eyes Lie in Scouting Offensive Linemen — On The Sixth Day
https://www.onthesixthday.com/posts/2018/2/26/iyjorlwsyecntukqelbbbav5ei9eu6

Quarterback is generally considered the most difficult position to evaluate in football, given the degree that intangibles and external factors like coaching and scheme play in a signal caller's development. While quarterback evaluations certainly involve qualities that can be tough to pin down, it's the offensive line that has proven to be the recruiting industry's bugaboo when it comes to projecting prospects to the NFL.

For the purpose of this exercise, I analyzed the offensive linemen selected in the first 3 rounds of the last 4 NFL drafts- 68 in total (27 tackles, 28 guards, 13 centers). For starters, more of the group were unranked (9) by the 247Sports Composite than were registered as 5-stars (6). Three of the former 5-stars were ranked as top 5 overall prospects- Cam Robinson, Laremy Tunsil and D.J. Humphries.

Of the 28 guards drafted in this grouping, just 7 were ranked as such out of high school. 10 of the 68 linemen were initially ranked as guards, with just 4 being ranked as 4-stars or higher per the 247Sports Composite- Germain Ifedi (plays tackle and guard), Isaac Seumalo (5-star, 3rd rounder), Chris Watt (3rd rounder) and Trai Turner (3rd rounder). Prospects ranked as guards out of high school are very rarely getting selected in the first two rounds of the NFL Draft.

This type of inaccuracy becomes even more pronounced when you look at the NFL's very best at the position.

Charles Power
@CharlesPower
If you're looking for the next top NFL OG's, the HS OT rankings are probably the best place to start. Just 2 of @PFF top 10 NFL OG's were ranked there as HS prospects. Top 2018 OG draft prospect Quenton Nelson ranked as a HS OT as well.

5:37 PM - Jan 18, 2018
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The simple answer for why the offensive line proves to be such a hit-or-miss proposition is that it's a developmental position- one that is highly technical and requires mental acuity coupled with significant size, strength and functional athleticism. While that explanation seems easy on its face, it has proven to be much more difficult to put into practice in the evaluation process.

The most crucial critical factors of a top offensive lineman may appear antithetical to how they look as high school prospects. For one, future top picks are on average much lighter as highschoolers. The 27 offensive tackles selected in the first 3 rounds of the past 4 NFL drafts averaged 6'5.6", 290 pounds in high school and 6'5.74", 313.4 pounds at the NFL combine. The 41 interior linemen drafted in that range averaged 6'4.2", 284 pounds in high school and 6'4.31", 310.7 pounds at the combine.

As a rule, desirable offensive tackles should be tall and lean. From this group, 19 of the 27 were under 300 pounds in high school and only two came in at under 6'5" at the combine (Dion Dawkins and Laremy Tunsil who measured at 6'4", despite being listed at 6'6" in high school). Height and weight have similar importance with interior linemen. 32 of the 41 interior OL's were under 300 pounds in high school and just 5 measured in at under 6'3" at the combine, with all 5 going in the 3rd round. Four of the 68 prospects were over 330 pounds in high school with zero over 350- Rob Havenstein (350, at 6'7.5"), Marcus Martin, (350), Trai Turner (335), Morgan Moses (335 at 6'6"). None of these heavier prospects went in the top 50 picks of their respective drafts.

It's my belief that this correlation with lighter/leaner offensive linemen is directly tied to functional athleticism and movement skills. As it relates to a high school prospect, functional athleticism is honed in the post-pubescent years (early-mid high school). Look at the starting left tackles in the NFL and you'll find former tight ends along with top basketball players. It's tough for a player to move, let alone be decent at basketball if they're over of 300 pounds, not to mention 330 or 350.

Camps and recruiting events have further muddied the water when it comes to evaluating offensive linemen. Much is made of one-on-one drills at these events, but it should be noted that their design is flawed in nature. Watch these one-on-ones (with or without pads) and you'll see that it's a glorified Oklahoma drill with a heavy emphasis on a quick pass-pro radar and strength at the point of attack- the most easily attained (and thus least important) critical factor for an offensive lineman over time. While these drills are designed to simulate a pass-blocking situation, the OL's will usually lunge at the DL in the middle of their pass set, resulting in a hand-fighting scenario that you'd rarely see in a real football game. This virtual sumo wrestling setup works to the advantage of the heavier, wider prospects while offering little application to offensive line play. It's rare that you get to see linemen pull or get to second level (which is increasingly important with the popularity of run-pass option schemes), further hiding the weaknesses of the heavier prospects. This design flaw forces a scenario where both college staffs and recruiting analysts are thought to be trusting their eyes without recognizing what they're watching is in large part inapplicable.

Former USC offensive lineman Damien Mama may be the best recent example of this flawed process. Mama was ranked as the no. 38 overall prospect and top guard in the 2014 cycle, due almost solely to his seemingly impressive camp showings. He measured in at 6'4", 370 pounds and would easily win hand-fighting contests with opposing DL's due to his considerable width and bulk. Little emphasis was placed on Mama's weight, body composition and deficient movement skills (he recorded a 5.97 second 40-yard dash and a 22.8 inch vertical jump). After three years at USC, Mama declared early for the 2017 NFL draft and went undrafted. He cut well over 30 pounds in advance of the NFL combine but still turned in some of the slower times in recent years- a 5.84 second 40-yard dash (1.95 10-yard split), 5.38 second short shuttle and 8.51 second 3-cone.

When dealing with overweight prospects, it's common to hear something like, "he'll need to reshape his body." This is among the biggest fallacies in player development and should generally be taken as a negative, particularly if the prospect is shorter than 6'6". Just six of the 68 day 1-2 OL from the last 4 drafts were heavier in high school than they were at the combine: Cam Robinson (8 pound difference), Germain Ifedi (4 pound difference), Rob Havenstein (6'7.5", 2nd round), Morgan Moses (6'6", 3rd round), Trai Turner (3rd round) and Marcus Martin (3rd round).

These numbers and trends don't paint a pretty picture for the 2018 cycle's top-ranked offensive line prospects. We're either on the verge of a revolution of heavier offensive line prospects or more than likely about to see a group that fails to meet its lofty expectations.

Of the 247Sports Composite's top 5 offensive tackles, just one is listed at under 300 pounds, while none of the remaining top four check in at under 325. It's perhaps even worse among the guards, with the weights of the top 3 listed at 342, 346 and 349. It's worth noting that those weights are from the summer and nearly all of these overweight, highly-rated prospects actually added pounds between The Opening and their national all-star games, with several tipping the scales north of 360. Take a look at their testing numbers and you'll see that they're comparable to (and in some ways worse than) what Damien Mama posted at the same event four years prior. If any of them are drafted in the first round, they'll be the heaviest prospect not just along the offensive line, but at any position, to be taken that high in recent history.

How the NFL Draft Informs Defensive Tackle Evaluations — On The Sixth Day
https://www.onthesixthday.com/posts/2018/4/9/su4xm32wp05sg0yvdnz4gqhnlksqnx

When it comes to winning games at the highest levels of football, perhaps no factor is more critical than a team’s ability to generate pressure with four defensive linemen. List the most consistent top programs in college football- Alabama, Clemson, Ohio State- and you are naming the teams with the nation's most talented defensive fronts.

The same goes for the NFL. Three of the four teams playing in the conference championship games, the Philadelphia Eagles, Minnesota Vikings and Jacksonville Jaguars, had below league average quarterbacks, but featured defensive lines that were among the best in the NFL. The most heralded free agent acquisition of the offseason was the Los Angeles Rams’ signing of Ndamukong Suh, pairing him with the league’s best defensive tackle and overall player, Aaron Donald. The duo is not just two of the top defensive tackles in the NFL, but are the two best interior defensive linemen the college game has seen in over a decade.

A team’s ability to create pressure, particularly from the interior, is the name of the game in today’s football. This has forced teams to change the way they view interior offensive line positions. There is an even larger premium being placed on athleticism and movement skills on the offensive line, as the majority of guard prospects are former offensive tackles.

Louis Riddick
?
@LRiddickESPN
We have noticed the quality of 3-techs that now exist on defense, as well as the use of hybrid pass rushers and multiple defensive fronts designed to get the best pass rushers singled up on “less athletic” OG’s....right?

12:24 AM - Mar 14, 2018
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Think of recent instances of a single defensive player wrecking the opposition's gameplan. Grady Jarrett in Super Bowl LI. Aaron Donald vs. the Seahawks and Falcons. Da’Ron Payne vs. Clemson and Georgia. There is a good chance you will be reminded of a dominant performance along the interior.

To get a better idea of what the NFL values in defensive tackle prospects, let us take a look at recent NFL drafts. While it is inexact, the draft is our best tool for assessing a prospect due to it being one of the few steps in the process where a player’s value is uniformly quantified in relation to his cohort.

The last five NFL drafts have seen forty-five defensive tackles selected in the first three rounds.
The group averaged 6’3.2”, 279 pounds as high school prospects and 6’3.5”, 308.5 pounds at the NFL combine after their college careers.
Eight of the forty-five were over 300 pounds as high school prospects and just three cut weight from high school to the combine (two of whom are no longer in the NFL).
Nineteen of the draft picks measured under 6’3” at the combine and just four of that group were over 300 pounds as high school prospects, with three no longer being in the NFL.
One third of the forty-five draft picks were ranked as a defensive end as high school prospects.
Well over half of the group were dual-sport athletes and often performed at an all-state level. The strongest cross-sport correlations are shot put, basketball and wrestling, respectively.
A study of the NFL’s top fifteen interior defensive linemen for the 2017 season per Pro Football Focus yields similar findings.

The group averaged 6’3.4”, 273 pounds as high school prospects and 6’3.48” 305 pounds at the NFL combine.
Two of the fifteen were over 300 pounds in high school, with both players (Gerald McCoy and Linval Joseph) being over 6’4”.
Gerald McCoy was the only player of the fifteen to weigh less at the combine than in high school.
No player under 6’3” (six of the fifteen) was over 300 pounds as a high school prospect and their average weight was 269 pounds.
At least thirteen were multi-sport athletes with multiple all-state basketball players and state champions in the shot put and wrestling.
Despite the NFL’s obvious preferred athletic profile for the position, heavy and poorly proportioned defensive tackles are still overvalued by college programs and recruiting networks. Highly-ranked defensive tackles that carry bad weight fail due to ability-related reasons at a higher rate than others.

Tennessee’s Reginald McKenzie, Jr. (the prospect formerly known as Kahlil) is a recent example. McKenzie, who was ranked as the 6th prospect nationally in the 2015 cycle according to the 247Sports Composite, tipped the scales at 341 pounds at The Opening in the summer prior to his senior year of high school. With his massive lower body on a sub-6’3” frame, McKenzie was tough for opposing offensive linemen to move, creating the illusion of a dominant performance and thus a top prospect. This is similar to the problem with evaluating offensive linemen in one-on-one settings at camps and national all-star games. McKenzie's deficiencies- a lack of any moves outside of a slow developing bull rush, an inability to redirect on contact and trouble staying upright were evident, but overlooked. As is the case with most heavy, top prospects his strength and girth (the two most easily gained traits for a lineman prospect) were overvalued as the result of a flawed drill.

McKenzie was ranked among the nation’s top ten prospects despite his weight, scratching his testing numbers and not playing his senior season of high school football. A Volunteer legacy and the son of Raiders’ general manager Reggie McKenzie, he enrolled with high expectations and endeared himself to Tennessee fans in part by needling rival fanbases on social media. McKenzie was listed at 344 pounds as a freshman at Tennessee and was a starter for the Volunteers for one season before surprisingly declaring early for the 2018 NFL draft. He has trimmed down to under 320 pounds, but has yet to show desirable athleticism, posting a SPARQ score at the NFL combine in the 27.4 percentile of NFL defensive linemen. He is currently projected as a late round pick to undrafted free agent and worked out as an offensive guard at Tennessee’s pro day.

Texas A&M’s Daylon Mack is another former top defensive tackle prospect from the 2015 cycle that has failed to meet the lofty expectations that come with being a five-star. Mack has even more pronounced limitations with his frame. He is generously listed at 6’1” by Texas A&M, but will be fortunate to crack the six-foot mark with an official measurement. Mack was listed at 330 pounds as a high school prospect and at 335 as a freshman for the Aggies. Prior to the 2017 season, then A&M head coach Kevin Sumlin mentioned Mack’s weight and subsequent conditioning issues, “Daylon Mack, we got his weight down—he’s down to 313 instead of 340. So he can play more than two plays in a row.”

Mack is entering his senior season and has one career start to date. His production has steadily decreased on an annual basis, even after trimming down to 320 pounds. It is uncommon to see a former five-star prospect without a significant injury history or off-field issues be over-recruited by lesser touted, younger players.

One of the more extreme examples of a highly-rated, heavy prospect being hampered by weight comes by way of Kentucky’s Matt Elam. He measured in at 6’5”, 372 pounds at the U.S. Army All-American Bowl as a high school senior and was listed at 6’7”, 375 as a freshman before a static 6’7”, 360 for his final three seasons in Lexington (he measured under 6’6” for NFL teams). Elam enrolled at Kentucky with massive expectations. He was among the highest-rated signees of the Mark Stoops era and chose the in-state Wildcats over Alabama. The former four-star prospect struggled to shed bad weight in his midsection and saw his snaps limited due to lack of conditioning and movement skills. Elam was unable to stay on the field and finished his four-year career with 1.5 tackles for loss and zero sacks.

Virginia Tech’s Tim Settle is representative of the limited ceiling for a heavy defensive tackle prospect. Settle measured 6’3”, 361 pounds in high school and was listed at 359 as a true freshman. He was forced to redshirt and cut weight before getting down to 335 pounds and experiencing a productive 2017 season that saw him register 12.5 tackles for loss. Settle serves as an example of a heavy prospect who maximized his physical potential at the college level. Even then, he still performed poorly in athletic tests, with one of the lower SPARQ scores at the NFL Combine (in the 2.6 percentile among NFL defensive tackles). Any NFL draft scouting report on Settle will prominently mention his weight issues and lack of experience as a one-year starter, which is a direct result of his excess pounds and lack of conditioning upon enrolling at Virginia Tech.

An understanding of a college football program's inner workings is instructive in identifying the hurdles a heavy prospect must clear upon enrollment. College football strength and nutrition programs are geared to add, not cut, mass to a player’s frame. Significant amounts of muscle are gained while food and liquid calories are in never-ending abundance via team meals, training tables and weight room supplements. Even with a team nutritionist holding a player’s hand on a daily basis, an extreme amount of restraint is needed to shed weight.

IMG Academy in Bradenton, Florida offers a college-level strength and nutrition program for its nationally-ranked high school team. IMG's 2017 starting offensive line weighed 390, 385, 360, 318 and 295 pounds, good enough for an average of 349.6. Each player gained significant weight after enrolling at IMG and partaking in the nutrition program. To put the group’s girth in perspective, Arkansas’ 2015 offensive line is the heaviest college front on record and averaged 328 pounds across the board- a full 20 pounds lighter per player than IMG’s high school line. It is worth noting that the lightest player from the 2015 Arkansas offensive line, Frank Ragnow, will be the group's highest draft pick by a wide margin.

Attend nearly any college football practice in August and you will see the program’s strength coach working with a group of players in non-contact uniforms off to the side. This group is comprised of players who are either injured or need to cut weight and are working on conditioning in lieu of participating in practice. The inability to begin their career in proper condition and then stay on the field for long stretches is a common thread with heavy defensive tackles, as detailed in the examples above. The prominence of uptempo offenses only exacerbates the issue as heavy defensive linemen are prone to tire more quickly and cannot be substituted as often when facing a no-huddle attack. This directly affects their value as a college football player and muddies their projection as an NFL prospect.

Even if a player does manage to cut weight in a college program, there is no way to retroactively develop functional athleticism, which is typically honed during a prospect's high school years. As previously noted in a prior post concerning offensive linemen, a high school athlete that weighs over 330 pounds is going to struggle to play basketball (one of the strong cross-sport correlations among top defensive tackles). Wrestling, another significant cross-sport correlation, is great for developing balance and an understanding of leverage. Most states cap the heavyweight division at 285 pounds. A prospect who weighs 330 pounds would have to cut forty-five pounds to even participate.

In February, I wrote that defensive tackle Moro Ojomo was my top prospect in the state of Texas for the 2018 cycle, citing his athletic upside and room for growth. The 16 year-old Texas Longhorn signee is 6’3” 280 pounds- nearly the exact average of the NFL draft picks detailed above. Ojomo was ranked as a three-star prospect and the 27th best defensive tackle according to the 247Sports Composite with players listed at 377, 338, 335 and 329 pounds among those ranked ahead of him. Odds are that Ojomo and his peers with similar builds will outperform most if not all of that heavier group.

College programs and recruiting networks admittedly judge the success of their evaluations (and for the colleges, player development) by the NFL draft. If the draft is the barometer for success, studying the qualities and career arcs of highly-valued NFL prospects is not only logical, but critical. Even then, the same mistakes are repeated and compounded on an annual basis. Remember this next time a lineman's excess weight is lauded as a positive attribute.

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Great Read on OL and DL Size & Weight - High School to NFL

Re: Great Read on OL and DL Size & Weight - High School to NFL

Re: Great Read on OL and DL Size & Weight - High School to NFL

He finished 4th as a JR, but he won it as a SR...Also won

Tig Willard was a 4 time State Champ in Wrestling***

Re: Great Read on OL and DL Size & Weight - High School to NFL

Re: Great Read on OL and DL Size & Weight - High School to NFL

Re: Great Read on OL and DL Size & Weight - High School to NFL

Re: Great Read on OL and DL Size & Weight - High School to NFL

Re: Great Read on OL and DL Size & Weight - High School to NFL

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