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Replies: 27
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110%er [5508]
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Virtual learning
Aug 7, 2020, 1:00 AM
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It seems that a lot more students than I thought have signed up for virtual learning in my area. 1/3 students are taking this route. I was curious about the demographics. I spoke with someone tonight that has some insight. I was told that a lot, probably a majority, are low income students. Worried that these kids will basically be left behind. Anyone have any insight into this? Could have long term ramifications on society.
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Heisman Winner [111606]
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Re: Virtual learning
Aug 7, 2020, 1:31 AM
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when I changed careers virtual learning helped to get me to where I needed to be, I also spend a lot of time watching task specific tutorials on youtube for R&D purposes at work. You can not replace the experience of going through the traditional college experience, but in all honesty, I have learned more about how to do and improve my work by watching either free or subscription based videos.
That is my 2 cents on virtual learning, and I imagine it would not be hard to develop a k-12 curriculum around learning resources already available for free online. Food for thought
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Virtual learning
Aug 7, 2020, 11:19 AM
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Heisman Winner [135916]
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I have some experience
Aug 7, 2020, 3:42 AM
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On both sides.
Some years ago I supervised the labs for onE student that wanted to take AP Chemistry that wasn’t offered at the school. We set her up in a conference room for 30 minutes of what was then a video feed with a telephone that would be Zoom today and 30 minutes of computer lessons. Even though I was only supposed to be there for safety purposes I would help her with questions during the lab time. She was bright and motivated and still struggled a lot. Granted that’s a very hard subject.
More recently, I administered the state tests to students in our area that were attending SC Connections - a private company that provides state approved online schooling. Most of these kids either were working full time, training for a sport like gymnastics or a music area full time or had medical reasons to not go to traditional school. Again more motivated than your average high school student and they would tell me the state tests were very hard for them.
I earned a certification endorsement in online learning design a few years ago when I saw the trend and the design method promoted by the state is very cookbook- have the student complete an assignment, discuss the assignment, take a test. It takes a lot of self motivation to learn this way.
Last 2 summers I’ve taught a college class online using this format. Based on the feedback from student evaluations, the learning is all self taught. All I’ve done for them is point them to the materials and they have to do the work. I don’t see the average 7-12th grader having the discipline to learn in this format. Zoom and some other strategies I think can help but if it’s up to the student to do much of it I fear they will have trouble. Not down on teenagers, just the nature of the beast.
Historically, lower income students have fewer resources (books, educational tv programs, school supplies) in the home and struggle with homework assignments during traditional school. I worry about them having support when it’s all homework basically. No knock on them or the parents, they just have different priorities when there is little to no disposable income.
On a different track, years ago I read an Isaac Asimov short story about kids that learned at home on a computer. One day in the attic of their house, they found an old book that told of all the children going to the same place to learn and they thought that was fantastic. Wish I could find it, would be a great reading assignment for 11th grade American Lit.
SC has had a public tax funded virtual school for some years - https://scvcs.k12.com/ - I was surprised when I found out they weren’t helping provide materials to all the schools last spring when teachers had to suddenly all become virtual experts. I learned that this “public school” was actually a private company and all their materials are proprietary and could not be used by teachers that didn’t work for K12, Inc. if you are looking at virtual school and you feel like your district doesn’t quite have a handle on it yet, I’d take a look at this option, or the SC Connections I mentioned above. https://www.connectionsacademy.com/south-carolina-virtual-school
If you’re not in S.C. I’m guessing you have similar in your state because both of these “public” online schools are run by big nationwide companies.
TL : DR - just like traditional school, it will work for some and not for others.
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Heisman Winner [135916]
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Oculus Spirit [97727]
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I've heard this too and been told it's better than
Aug 7, 2020, 8:25 AM
[ in reply to I have some experience ] |
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Anything the district could throw together. That being said we're going to try the hybrid thing. If it goes all virtual we will probably do the old online alternative.
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All-In [46825]
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I have meetings Monday about all of this
Aug 7, 2020, 10:43 AM
[ in reply to I have some experience ] |
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we had a massive influx of virtual only registrations. At this point I believe over half of our elementary and middle school will be online and 1/3rd of the high school will be.
We are now designating one teacher in each department to be the Virtual SC designee. I have been chosen because my in class is 90% online anyways. They do all of their work through google classroom and the only thing on paper we do is tests.
I have no idea what that means though. I had a conversation with our AP last night at poker if that meant that I would have a full class load plus the virtual classes.
From what I gather I will have one or two in person classes and one of my other classes will be virtual. No idea if that's the case, doesn't make sense to me. But if I'm doing a full load plus virtual I WILL BE DEMANDING MORE PAY.
Our demos right now for virtual is your middle to upper class well behaved kids. The lower, more challenging kids will be in school because, and I quote, "uh-uh, this lil hellyun ain't staying in my home no more than he has to, he will be in that #### desk first day coach"
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110%er [5679]
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Re: Virtual learning
Aug 7, 2020, 8:50 AM
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I have 3 boys. Oldest graduated from MIT in Aero Engineering. Have two others at NCSU in engineering. I have a PhD in Mech Engineering.
My wife and I were talking about this the other day. Having seen the progression in use of online tools like webassign and moodle over the past decade, I do not think things are headed in the right direction. The separation of the learner from the teacher cannot be a good thing (no matter how many "studies" the liberals invent to say it is).
Getting a homework problem 100% wrong (no partial credit) because you entered 3.14159 and the answer field expected 3.14 is stupid. Not all are like this, but I have seen too many that are. In engineering the approach to solving the problem is more important than the answer. One typo on the calculator means you get the wrong answer, but if you got the idea of how to work the problem, you should get 90% credit.
Plus, questions are written by people with English as a second language and they are too often not clear enough.
Live virtual learning and recorded virtual learning doubles down on the badness of all this. It creates a barrier between the learner and student. For recorded situations, there's no chance to ask the teacher questions.
It helps immensely when teachers understand what their students are understand and what they are having trouble with. Recorded classes have none of this. Doing homework on an online system eliminates this possibility.
We sent men to the moon using slide rules and analog computers educated in person using paper and pencil. Just because $#### is old does not mean it should be abandoned for more convenient methods.
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Heisman Winner [135916]
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Re: Virtual learning
Aug 7, 2020, 9:08 AM
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I agree with you on all points except since you don’t like it you blame “liberals”
Prior to the current situation the big push for virtual school has come from groups that want to privatize education definitely NOT on the liberal agenda. Key talking points are reducing the numbers of those pesky overpaid teachers, lower cost to tax payers (fewer physical resources), accountability through standardization, - all big conservative priorities. One of the leaders of this is Pearson Education (they own the SC Connection school I mentioned in my post) They are huge players financially when it comes to contributions to Republican candidates and conservative PACs. They pitched as a way to reducing cost by having 1-2 master virtual teachers in a central location and hiring low cost assistants to monitor the students in person.
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110%er [9096]
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First positive test outbreak at the school level will push
Aug 7, 2020, 10:25 AM
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everyone online. 40% in fairfax county did not make a choice thus they were put in inc-lass learning
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Re: Virtual learning
Aug 7, 2020, 10:32 AM
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If you think low income parents are getting those laptops to teach their kids, you are a pawn in the game. Those parents don't care when their kids are out of the house 8-4. They have doubled down on the don't care and aren't working and the kids are running loose.
If school is not F2F, then I want my tax dollars back and I want all teachers furloughed until school comes back in session. If they get to sit at home multiple days a week, then they shouldnt be paid. period.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Virtual learning
Aug 7, 2020, 10:35 AM
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I wonder how many of these low income kids have internet at home.
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All-In [42169]
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Re: Virtual learning
Aug 7, 2020, 10:52 AM
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I know some Charleston area schools set up Wi-Fi in their parking lots for students to come and use... but that's assuming they come and use it.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [42169]
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Re: Virtual learning
Aug 7, 2020, 10:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: Virtual learning ] |
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First, aren't schools trying to provide tech to kids who can't afford it for virtual learning?
Your last part is silly and just typical extremist right-wing anti-education hate. If they're doing virtual learning, they're still working. Still doing lessons, still grading, still providing instruction. It's not the teachers' fault if districts or governments won't do face to face.
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All-In [46825]
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I guess tigermanac doesn't want
Aug 7, 2020, 10:56 AM
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any people who work from home to be paid either
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All-In [42169]
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Re: I guess tigermanac doesn't want
Aug 7, 2020, 11:13 AM
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I'm curious if he even knows how much of his taxes actually go to education.
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All-In [46825]
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and out of that how much actually goes to teacher salary***
Aug 7, 2020, 11:18 AM
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CU Medallion [60043]
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All-In [42169]
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Re: I guess tigermanac doesn't want
Aug 7, 2020, 11:59 AM
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So, if public schools can't meet face to face because of the virus, you think you all should get your tax dollars back, thus ending public schools for all students in your state and putting thousands and thousands of people (teachers, custodians, cafeteria workers, bus drivers, etc.) out of job?
I'm sure that'll fix the issue.
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Re: I guess tigermanac doesn't want
Aug 7, 2020, 11:53 AM
[ in reply to I guess tigermanac doesn't want ] |
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I have worked from home almost my whole career. But if you are just home and only teaching 2 days a week as is the case in many places, you shouldnt be paid for 5.
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All-In [42169]
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Re: I guess tigermanac doesn't want
Aug 7, 2020, 11:57 AM
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Where is that happening?
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All-In [46825]
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Jesus you're an idiot
Aug 7, 2020, 11:58 AM
[ in reply to Re: I guess tigermanac doesn't want ] |
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if it's a hybrid model, like your 2 online day reference) the other 3 are in class instruction
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All-In [42169]
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Re: Virtual learning
Aug 7, 2020, 10:51 AM
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I fear other long term harm to those low income students you mentioned. School is sometimes the only time they get a real meal during the day, and I worry about the statistics that will one day come out about increased child abuse, neglect, etc. during this COVID time.
What sucks is there doesn't seem to be a good answer. It seems schools, parents, and kids are ###### if they do, ###### if they don't. At least in SC.
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Oculus Spirit [83121]
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I’ve heard the opposite.
Aug 7, 2020, 10:51 AM
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My wife is an elementary public school teacher and more of the low-income parents want face to face because of lack of child care.
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All-In [46825]
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It's what you said in our district
Aug 7, 2020, 10:57 AM
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too
The parents who sit at home all day living off of EBT and medicaid with 8 kids don't want their kids home with them all day.
Message was edited by: FBCoachSC®
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Oculus Spirit [83121]
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Some of that but also in homes where both parents need
Aug 7, 2020, 11:03 AM
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to work to feed the family and pay the bills.
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All-In [46825]
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also depends on the age
Aug 7, 2020, 11:08 AM
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8th grade and up, both parents working is not as big of a determinant. 7th down it is.
8th grade and up the bigger determinant is access to internet. in our district all kids get laptops, 1 to 1, and a Verizon hotspot so that's not that big of an issue either. so what we end up getting is athletes, those in high level CATE programs, and those the parents just don't want them at home.
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