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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Does this last one game change your perception
Feb 3, 2020, 8:45 AM
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of our coaching staff?
If so, why?
If not, why?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Does this last one game change your perception
Feb 3, 2020, 8:47 AM
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Not really a change. I think we know what we have. How about you?
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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No. Just a typical CBB season.
Feb 3, 2020, 8:56 AM
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Bad OOC losses, bad start to ACC play, win some big games we didn't expect to get our hopes up then lose some more bad games. As great of a coaching job we saw against Cuse, the coaching job at Wake was pretty awful IMO.
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Heisman Winner [140529]
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The ACC isn’t terrible this season...
Feb 3, 2020, 11:31 AM
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Please try again.
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Commissioner [919]
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Re: The ACC isn’t terrible this season...
Feb 4, 2020, 7:25 PM
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This is the worse ACC basketball season in 2 decades. And yes the ACC is horrendous this year with only 3 bids likely at the moment.
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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No, the streak had to end at some point and we just happened
Feb 3, 2020, 8:53 AM
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To face a buzz saw in LSU.
We’ll be back, reload vs rebuild.
Oh wait....is this a basketball post?
Answer is still no. cbb is who we thought he is.
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All-In [27374]
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Re: No, the streak had to end at some point and we just happened
Feb 3, 2020, 9:18 AM
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The incoming recruiting class appears to be an improvement. Better players should result in a better team. The Tigers aren’t going to immediately be world beaters regardless of the coach
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All-In [40777]
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Brownell has helped me remember what the 2004 football season felt like.
Feb 3, 2020, 9:18 AM
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Or really just about any other season that Tommy Bowden had coached.
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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it's shown me that I'm a terrible fan...
Feb 3, 2020, 9:20 AM
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if it is the fan's fault, I don't like what I saw in myself in Winston-Salem.
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Legend [17292]
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Very proud of you being so self reflective. But what ...
Feb 3, 2020, 9:30 AM
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are you going to do to become a better fan in the future?
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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hmmmm...
Feb 3, 2020, 9:31 AM
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I'm not sure Brownell can help me. Have you seen the basketball team?
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110%er [6592]
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No, same old same old, in 10 yrs we know what we got
Feb 3, 2020, 9:31 AM
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Pros: excellent coach when it comes to strategy and xs and os, he gets the most out of the talent he has when he has them focused and has their full attention. I think he has finished at or better than preseason expectation more times than not. When he has the players focused and engaged and they are hitting shots, we have seen flashes in the Duke and SYR games of what this team is capable of. I think he would really excel at a program that is established and attracts better talent. If you look at the 2 years we made the NCAA you see his potential as a coach when he has some talent and quality upperclassmen on the roster . He is doing better recruiting lately, so we will see where that leads as the talent gets upgraded.
Cons: I have always questioned his ability as a motivator and a coach that can keep his team focused and engaged over several games especially for the smaller games that you have to self motivate (see Wake). He just doesnt strike me as the type of coach that can light a fire under the players. Its easy for the big games, but for the smaller games we always just seem to come out flat. Part of this isnt all on coaching it sometimes is simply due to the talent level on the roster. As stated above, I think he pushes these guys to their full potential, but talent isnt only about athleticism, its also about the mental part of the game too. Sometimes the difference in being a great player and just an ok player is not having mental lapses and being able to have complete focus. As I said above, recruiting has picked up lately so this should also improve.
After last season, I could have gone either way on keeping or getting rid of him, but after we chose to keep him I felt it was an automatic 2 yr deal unless he just crapped the bed this year, which he has not. With the youth and injuries, he has done a decent job this year. I think next year will be the put up or shut up yr. If we stay healthy and with the incoming recruits, next year there will be no excuses for not making the NCAA.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Did you see an excellent strategy against Wake Saturday?
Feb 3, 2020, 10:25 AM
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If so, what was it?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Did you see an excellent strategy against Wake Saturday?
Feb 3, 2020, 10:39 AM
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Playing dead or possibly rope-a-dope. Didn't work.
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110%er [6592]
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The Wake problem wasnt strategy
Feb 3, 2020, 11:45 AM
[ in reply to Did you see an excellent strategy against Wake Saturday? ] |
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I covered this in my con category. The problem with Wake was a team that looked totally unprepared from a mental standpoint. The team lacked focus, intensity, fire, and energy. This on the coaches as well as the players. As Oglesby pointed out, the team looked lethargic. This led to turnovers and mistakes offensively and defensively. The lack of focus on offense led to turnovers passing and catching, and the lack of energy was seen by little to no off ball movement. On the defensive side rotations were late and guys were constantly getting caught a step behind after assuming rather than playing with their eyes.
From a strategy standpoint, plays were there to be made and the guys were getting some open looks. We just turned the ball over, traveled, and missed shots. The offensive scheme was pretty simple most of the night, just executed terribly. The problem was totally between the ears. There is no scheme or strategy out there that would have had different results with the effort we put forth. Im not saying Brownell has no blame in this and I am not giving him a pass by any means. Part of his job is to have the players mentally prepared and focused, and he and the staff did not do a good job of this. As I pointed out, I think this is one of his weaknesses. When he has their attention and they are focused, like in big games, we may not win them all, but we compete and the results show it. However, his job is also to create an edge for the smaller games, and I think he struggles mightily at that. He also has struggled with recruiting (as many coaches here have) but it does seem to be on an uptick.
Im by no means a Brownell pumper, and wouldnt have been disappointed if he had been canned last yr. But I do think he is a decent coach. Im just not so sure he is a good fit for the constant uphill battle he faces here year after year. Better said, im not sure he is a builder. I think he would thrive at a program that already has some talent and kind of self recruits, where he could maybe just push them over the hump because I do feel he sometimes gets players to play above their grade.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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If the problem wasn't strategy, then what was the strategy?
Feb 3, 2020, 12:08 PM
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I'm genuinely asking and would love an answer.
Against the Syracuse 2-3 Mack really got going when he started getting the ball in the high post and drove the lane for a couple of tough buckets. Then he started making them from the elbow-ish. Against the Wake matchup zone, how many times did you see Mack get to the high post? Heck, I didn't see many guys get there at all. We had 4 guys out a lot of the game with 1 guy rotating in, as I said previously that seemed to be Simms a lot. Mack took 10 shots and 4 of those were threes.
The lack of off ball movement was the biggest concern to me. Why weren't they moving? There were times we literally had 4 guys out, all standing still. If they were supposed to be moving and weren't, why were they still on the floor? Why did that not change in the 2nd half?
Ok fine, the defense was late rotating a few times, but they held Wake to 22 first half points. Our offense didn't work. You can say that the strategy worked because we were getting open looks, but they weren't a lot of good looks, certainly not a lot of high percentage looks. Also, we only shot 6 free throws. So again, what was the game plan and what about it was working?
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Heisman Winner [134505]
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Re: Does this last one game change your perception
Feb 3, 2020, 9:32 AM
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I thought the game would be closer than it was, but felt we wouldn't win on their court. It has not changed my stance on BB. He continues to show inconsistency. A smart coach, just maybe not fit for the ACC. Still pull hard for Clemson each and every game.
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Orange Blooded [3616]
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Re: Does this last one game change your perception
Feb 3, 2020, 9:33 AM
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No.
It changes my opinion of Coach Manning's staff.
I had been sneaking onto their boards all year, posting things like "this team blows a double-digit lead in EVERY game. Fire Coach Manning!" I'm not sure, but I don't think anyone took me seriously.
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Oculus Spirit [82064]
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Please pass the jelly.
Feb 3, 2020, 9:56 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83625]
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Re: Please pass the jelly.
Feb 3, 2020, 10:01 AM
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Heisman Winner [134505]
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All-In [37023]
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No, I expected a typical Clemson Basketball season
Feb 3, 2020, 9:59 AM
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Win some you're not supposed to and lose the ones you should win.
We beat Duke and Syracuse to raise our hopes but lost to dreadful Miami(3-8 in ACC we are one of their wins) and Wake(3-8 in ACC we are one of their wins) teams to crush them. We lost to the 2 bottom dwellers.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Does this last one game change your perception
Feb 3, 2020, 10:09 AM
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I'm surprised that nobody has ever figured this thing out before but two things remain true with our basketball program:
1) If everybody is dumping on our basketballteam /firing Brownell, they are going to win a couple of games that they shouldn't win.
2) As soon as everybody gets excited about our potential, they are going to drop a stinker or two and send everybody back to #1.
The cycle repeats every year and often cycles through multiple times per season.
This year I believe we have been through the full cycle twice already but I could be a little off on that.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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Nobody should ever dump on our players.
Feb 3, 2020, 10:28 AM
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And while our team had an atrocious night shooting, Saturday night was not their fault IMO. They were not put in the position to succeed.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: Nobody should ever dump on our players.
Feb 3, 2020, 10:34 AM
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I agree with you about not bashing the players.
However, the reasons we lose never seen to affect the cycle whether it is bad shooting, bad gameplan, or other things.
The same is true of wins. Even if we win a few games because the opponents are terrible, everybody gets excited about the team turning it around.
I was shocked at the end of last week how many people were predicting us to beat Louisville when we play them at home just because we managed to beat Syracuse at home.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I don't know, beating Louisville at home after getting
Feb 3, 2020, 10:40 AM
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it handed to us by Wake would be completely on brand for this team.
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All-TigerNet [11478]
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Re: I don't know, beating Louisville at home after getting
Feb 3, 2020, 10:43 AM
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Exactly.
It's almost like Brad knows how many wins we will get before the season starts so he saves some against the Miami's and Wake's of the world to make sure he can steal of few from the big dogs.
It's still ridiculous to predict it though.
I have returned to my standard Clemson basketball setting at this point in the year.
I assume every game is a loss individually, but I expect that we will pull a few of them out somehow.
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All-In [37023]
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with the exception of
Feb 3, 2020, 10:50 AM
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an almost guaranteed loss in game 1 of the ACC Tourney. That is a norm we really can't get away from.
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Orange Blooded [4854]
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Re: Does this last one game change your perception
Feb 3, 2020, 10:22 AM
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I see a young team. We are missing our starting center and could use another big. Freshman look good, Brad (staff included) is a developer and looks like everyone has bought in. We have Baehre and the other transfer on campus and should be able to complete things with the next class.
Next year will be muzzle time.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I don't disagree, but how many times have we said
Feb 3, 2020, 10:26 AM
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"next year will be do or die" or some variation of that?
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Heisman Winner [140529]
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Why do you hate our basketball program?***
Feb 3, 2020, 10:27 AM
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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I love our basketball program. I don't love losing.***
Feb 3, 2020, 10:29 AM
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Heisman Winner [140529]
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You seem to enjoy arguing with people...
Feb 3, 2020, 11:15 AM
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Are you a lawyer?
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Oculus Spirit [82064]
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I doubt he even has a 'real' job.
Feb 3, 2020, 11:21 AM
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Orange Blooded [3616]
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Re: I doubt he even has a 'real' job.
Feb 3, 2020, 12:09 PM
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You imply that being a lawyer is 'a real job.'
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Oculus Spirit [82064]
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Re: I doubt he even has a 'real' job.
Feb 3, 2020, 12:26 PM
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Orange Blooded [3616]
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Re: I doubt he even has a 'real' job.
Feb 3, 2020, 12:44 PM
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My SIL is a lawyer.
Great young man, works long hours, head of his class, interned with a Federal Judge, provides for his family and then some, unbeaten in court in two states (according to him).
He also hates working for the people he disrespects more than anyone else in the world—his clients.
So, yes, we make lawyer jokes at his expense, and he loves it.
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Your sister in law is a man?***
Feb 3, 2020, 12:50 PM
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Oculus Spirit [96868]
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THERE YOU GO JUDGING AGAIN***
Feb 3, 2020, 12:51 PM
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Not pulling a Karen, just curious... ***
Feb 3, 2020, 12:54 PM
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Oculus Spirit [82064]
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Orange Blooded [3616]
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Re: Not pulling a Karen, just curious... ***
Feb 3, 2020, 1:06 PM
[ in reply to Not pulling a Karen, just curious... *** ] |
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Oh, gosh, is that what “SIL” means?
I had no idea!
I thought I was only ignorant of “scok”, but now I’m gonna have to stop using text-type entirely for fear of being misunderstood.
Or not. Maybe I’ll have to risk my SIL making jokes about his FIL.
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Hall of Famer [21870]
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Wait, are you saying that SIL = Scok In Law?***
Feb 3, 2020, 1:38 PM
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110%er [9724]
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I’m pretty much numb to it at this point.
1
Feb 3, 2020, 10:33 AM
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I care. But I’m numb to any feelings about it.
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CU Medallion [58415]
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There is a full body of work here upon which to judge
Feb 3, 2020, 11:56 AM
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Brownell's performance, which is unequvocally mediocre. There is an actual record of performance that does not lie, and as long as he is honest and ethical, the record is all that matters. Neither a few high spots this year, or any single game has much impact on that.
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Orange Blooded [3369]
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Re: Does this last one game change your perception
Feb 3, 2020, 1:56 PM
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I like CBB but he is not going to win championships that’s pretty much a fact. Yeah I know Clemson doesn’t have much basketball tradition but neither does FSU and VT. There is no reason we can’t be a better program. It’s time to start over and maybe we find a young coach that can get Clemson where we need to be. I’m mean if we are going to play BB let’s at least try to be good at it.
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