|
Replies: 17
| visibility 1,756
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
question for the Brownell supporters
Mar 11, 2013, 12:42 PM
|
|
why do we stink so daggum bad at basketball?
I'm not a BB basher, just wanting to understand better. I read about how he's "a great coach" yet we stink. Terribly. I think we are the like #100 team in the country as per the Sagarin ratings.
How much time does someone need? Are we making progress under BB? How?
I just can't wrap my mind around why we are the #100 basketball team in the country. #40 I understand. #60 on a bad year.
#100?
|
|
|
|
 |
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
We recruit developmental players
Mar 11, 2013, 12:46 PM
|
|
Other than Booker and Jennings (who decent but not elite) we have freshman and sophomore players who did not come into Clemson as starting caliber players. Look at the guys on our team and ask yourself "how many of these guys would start for other teams in the ACC" or even "how many of these guys would be in the top 8 for other teams in the ACC"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [53]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
yea but hasn't this been the case since
Mar 11, 2013, 12:48 PM
|
|
our program started? Not trying to be difficult, but we have generally had this same dynamic over the past 40 years. Now and again we get a really good player to come through but I'm just not sure how the state of our team today is significantly different than it was during other coaching eras.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19352]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 22266
Joined: 4/25/04
|
Re: yea but hasn't this been the case since
Mar 11, 2013, 12:50 PM
|
|
its not that is why we have struggled....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19352]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 22266
Joined: 4/25/04
|
Re: question for the Brownell supporters
Mar 11, 2013, 12:47 PM
|
|
Clemson is not a place that brings in impact freshmen/sophomores. We have to develop players and when he was left with an empty class plus one that was full of transfers/busts we knew this year would be rough.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [4559]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4427
Joined: 7/14/03
|
Our recruiting has been horrid, even for Clemson standards.***
Mar 11, 2013, 12:52 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Legend [19352]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 22266
Joined: 4/25/04
|
Re: Our recruiting has been horrid, even for Clemson standards.***
Mar 11, 2013, 12:53 PM
|
|
2 4 star guys and a bunch of 3s.... not much different than most years.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
Shh don't go stating facts around here
Mar 11, 2013, 12:57 PM
|
|
Just get the pitchforks and light the torches
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [800]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 1280
Joined: 5/4/03
|
Brownell is a good man, a good coach, and will get it done.***
Mar 11, 2013, 12:53 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [30593]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 28685
Joined: 8/17/05
|
Here's my take on that
Mar 11, 2013, 12:59 PM
|
|
Again, I'm not touching recruiting, just the basketball side of things.
Offensively, BB is able to get us really good looks. Watch our movement and mis-matches we create. We are able to get Devin isolated on the block, and even guys who are our better shooters open for looks. Right now, we do not have the guys that can consistently make the shots. He's in a hard place, b/c we can't get out and run (Devin and Milt have to play, and we can't run with both). So you slow it down and try to get high % shots and hope your defense keeps you in games.
The defense has kept us in games, but we simply CANNOT convert enough on offense. We have some good possessions and good shots, but can't get them to go down.
We are 7-8 posessions away from being on the NCAA bubble right now.
I think with Milt and Book gone, we will be smaller and get out and run more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13190]
TigerPulse: 98%
Posts: 19419
Joined: 9/27/04
|
I agree***
Mar 11, 2013, 1:02 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Commissioner [925]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 1468
Joined: 11/8/04
|
Dale Davis and Eldin Campbell
Mar 11, 2013, 1:13 PM
|
|
I came to Clemson in 88, and I don't know that I have seen a Clemson team since that time with the out and out talent that we had in 88, 89. Even then we were never at elite status, just very good, and that team had some of the trademark Clemson bball problems (poor to average free-throw shooting, losing games in heart-breaking fashion)
Either Clemson's athletic department goes "all-in" for basketball and hires a coach that will pull in kids because of WHO he is, or else you do what we have always done and try to find a solid coach and let him put his system into play. OP's recruits were for OP's system so it's somewhat unfair to demand that Brownell make them his guys. Brownell's players are going to be juniors and sophomores next year so we will see what it amounts to, but I don't know if switching coaches will yield great results because even the great Rick Barnes (last Clemson bball coach to get us to the sweet sixteen) dropped the ball the year before he left when we couldn't handle Western Michigan in the dance.
The way I see it, we are a school that either needs to heavily invest in basketball or accept that we are something of a mid-major playing with the big boys (and brother are we going to see that when Louisville, Pittsburg, Syracuse, and Notre Dame get added to the schedule).
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [6982]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 6354
Joined: 9/21/04
|
Lol! #100? Our RPI is 177, right behind Fairfield.***
Mar 11, 2013, 1:13 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1404]
TigerPulse: 82%
Posts: 1919
Joined: 4/19/05
|
2012-2013 BBall was below .500 bc 2 "shooters" went down
Mar 11, 2013, 1:19 PM
|
|
This season would have been different if Blossingame and Coleman were not injured.
So why is Clemson bad this year? Those two depleted depth and shooting ability. Add to the fact that Senior Leadership went to Booker and Jennings. I do not think either are good leaders. But both played better this year than last and so on.
Coach BB gets most out of his players and will continue to do so. Coach OP did not. James Mays did not really develop across 4 years. Did he ever improve his shooting? NO. He would miss layups but fight hard and get O rebound to then make the basket. He was with OP for 4 years. What about Sam Perry? Same things. Great athletes, good competitors, not so good as basketball players.
But what did Coach BB do with Jerai Grant, Bobo, Devin Booker and KJ (from year one to year two)? He did a lot and helped each player become much more productive.
Coach BB was hurt too by transfers. He was behind in recruiting when he started and then lost kids during year or earlier. This put him farther behind.
My only concern for him would be why is it hard for him to get a guy from the cold midwest or northeast to come to warmer, sunnier Clemson? I met too many guys who said they visited Clemson in Spring once and their mind was made up. As soon as they saw campus and the girls in Spring... they were sold.
In my mind, I would get a Dabo-like guy to coordinate my recruiting and bring kids to as many football games as possible. Sell the family. Sell the energy around the campus. Fall Home Games until Nov 11th would be my staple magnet to draw kids to come to campus. (He is probably already doing that.)
- Show the place in fall and the atmosphere of Clemson Football.
- Heavy Spring campus visits in March and April 11-24.
Go look at Recruiting calendars by NCAA and you will see it is a minimum 2 year process to start landing guys you want. So March and April 2013 should be big push for 2015 commits.
now if we could sign one of two JUCO players, then Clemson could ramp up faster. Sounds like admin is evaulating how to coordinate some majors to accept more credits. Thus, JUCO players could transfer to Clemson.
So maybe the facilities need to be upgraded to elicit a better Wow reaction. Who knows? It did not hurt the women's game in recruiting. It looked like that the recruited ladies just did not want to stay at Clemson.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [56]
TigerPulse: 69%
Posts: 97
Joined: 9/16/11
|
he'll get it done, give it time...
Mar 11, 2013, 1:22 PM
|
|
young team with two "okay" seniors
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7191]
TigerPulse: 70%
Posts: 20374
Joined: 8/18/06
|
Re: question for the Brownell supporters
Mar 11, 2013, 1:37 PM
|
|
Several reasons:
Injuries,defections,Lack of recruiting,especially shooters,players out of position( Book is a small ,or power foward,not a center) poor guard play,especially by Rod Hall at times.
Those are the main reasons,but we are also facing stiffer competition from the middle of the pack in the ACC.And with the likes of Syracuse,Louisville,and Notre Dame coming into the conference,it could get worse before it gets better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [5381]
TigerPulse: 70%
Posts: 9273
Joined: 11/29/99
|
2 out of 5 starters aren't buying into Brownell's system
Mar 11, 2013, 3:33 PM
|
|
When your post players can't/won't screen for the guards in his offense, it's nearly impossible to create any motion or rhythem. Gets worse when one of them is jacking up 3's and you have 3 guys about 6'-3" to rebound the bricks. In 4 years, neither post player has ever developed a go to post move or can finish in traffic. Unfortunately, with the way OP screwed up our recruiting cycles, no help is on the way until 2014-15 season unless we can snag a JUCO for next year & I don't expect that to be allowed by administration.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11024]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9048
Joined: 2/22/00
|
Re: question for the Brownell supporters
Mar 11, 2013, 3:41 PM
|
|
1) inherited 1 empty class and 1 flawed class from OP
2) injuries to 2 of his best players before the season.
3) no upperclass backcourt players due to the classses mentioned above.
I think he is a good coach but he needs a couple more years to build some junior and senior classes. We will have "0" seniors next year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 17
| visibility 1,756
|
|
|
50
