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Topic: Clemson five years from now
Replies: 67   Last Post: Feb 13, 2019 5:06 PM by: Carlsbad®
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Clemson five years from now

[1]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 3:21 PM
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Tillman Hall has been renamed Harvey Gantt Hall of Humanitarian Studies. Fort Hill has been razed, all vestiges of John C. Calhoun have been removed and the mere mention of his name warrants immediate expulsion from campus.

2019 purple level member


Re: Clemson five years from now

[3]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 3:23 PM
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cool, then you would have a reason to be all complainy and such, I hope this works out for you.

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You should never chalk up to conspiracy what you can reliably attribute to stupidity. Because stupidity is a much more powerful force in the course of human events.


Re: Clemson five years from now


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:13 PM
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So when will Yale University be renamed? When will Faneuil Hall in Boston be renamed? They were both slave traders. When will all statues of General Sherman be destroyed since he advocated and fought to exterminate Native Americans?


These softies hate the history that made us.


Posted: Feb 12, 2019 9:51 PM
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Like their complaints/suggestions will erase it. Rub some dirt on your offense and bitchesabout real problems.

-Doc

2005_ncaa_champ.jpg

I've been wrong two times, but this isn't one of them.


Would be fine with renaming Tillman. That’s as far as I’d

[4]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 3:29 PM
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go. Calhoun didn’t lead a political campaign which included murder and terrorism against blacks like Tillman.

I’d also be against taking Strom’s name off of anything.

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yeah, we know all about Strom


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 3:37 PM
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he led a campaign to do something entirely different to blacks....giggitygiggity


thank you joe


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 3:43 PM
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coot

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eh, it's what people did back then


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 3:46 PM
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now it's much more stealthy

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Cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile,
Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile!!!!


If they rename Tillman, will greeks be forced to

[4]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 3:47 PM
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rename their labradors as well?


Re: If they rename Tillman, will greeks be forced to


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 3:53 PM
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Both 'yellow' and 'black' labs are deemed rassist.


To avoid confusion, I named my two dogs

[1]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 3:54 PM
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P Plant and Visitor Parking.


I regret that I have but one TU to give this post.***


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 5:00 PM
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So Andrew Jackson should be removed from the $20?***


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 3:53 PM
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2019 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

You think he'd mind?***


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:01 PM
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somebody might,i'd be pissed off if calhoun disappeared

[2]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:03 PM
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from clemson

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and the effort has begun


Posted: Feb 12, 2019 11:31 PM
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petition to rename calhoun honors college has been presented to the pres

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For those of us interested in our opinions involving

[1]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:07 PM
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at least a tad of logic... it's an important question.

The entire debate over renaming stuff is irrational. It's an exercise in stupidity. When one actually thinks about it, it unravels.

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"The entire debate over renaming stuff is irrational"

[1]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:11 PM
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Tillman Hall wasn't always called Tillman Hall. Was it irrational to rename it after Tillman?

The $20 has had Garfield, John Marshall, George Washington, and Grover Cleveland on its face. Was it irrational to put Jackson on it? It's been the way it is for awhile now, sure. But why would making a change now be problematic to you?

Only stupidity and group-think leads to keeping tradition for tradition's sake. Amidoinitrite?


I did not say changing names on things is irrational.


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:13 PM
    Reply

I said the entire debate is irrational.

Now that I cleaned up your reading comprehension for you, care to recast?

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How does one make a decision without a decision making


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:15 PM
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process involved?

Should we print portraits of every national hero and throw darts to see who gets the Nickel?


Your questions misses the point. Here...


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:20 PM
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The debate over this topic is not about how best to name or rename certain monuments. The debate is that because there are certain historical figures associated with aggressive racism or white supremacy, that they should be removed from monuments. In order to accomplish this goal, those in government who "know better" should make this decision without a vote.

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was there a vote to name the monuments?***


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:44 PM
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Re: was there a vote to name the monuments?***


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:58 PM
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Yes. Its required by the SC State legislature.


I'm okay with renaming Tillman and reverting it back to its former name. But if so, should be done according to the process required by state bylaws. SC State Legislature has to vote on it and do so by majority vote.


Agreed...

[1]
Posted: Feb 12, 2019 7:32 AM
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Let's do this by the proper legal process, not mob demands.

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I think those do exist, actually. If not, then I would agree


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 5:15 PM
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that both deserve the same treatment. But I am actually less interested in it for the actual names of monuments. My issue is the stupidity and hypocrisy of the debate. That's my angle.

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You would only be doing it right


Posted: Feb 12, 2019 9:59 PM
    Reply

with a little too much Propofol.

-PhD

2005_ncaa_champ.jpg

I've been wrong two times, but this isn't one of them.


Re: So Andrew Jackson should be removed from the $20?***


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:10 PM
    Reply

Jackson should definitely come off the 20. He doesn't deserve it and there are much more willing people. But I don't get all weak at the knees when the government talks about changing money. Change is good.

Redesign more often, especially coins. The mint makes more money when coins are redesigned.

I'd take Jackson off the 20 and change the people on either the quarter/$1, penny/$5, and nickel/$2. Let's have some variety.


So, remove the Founding Fathers too?***


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:12 PM
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You think they'd mind?


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:14 PM
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TBH I'd wager the founders wouldn't much like having their portraits deified on money and mountains. They seemed to enjoy rebelling against that sort of thing.


The question of whether people, who no longer exist,

[1]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:15 PM
    Reply

may "mind" or not is a silly distraction that is entirely irrelevant to the topic.

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By the topic, you mean the one that's irrational to discuss?***


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:17 PM
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I recommend reading more carefully.

[1]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:22 PM
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I did not say it is irrational to debate it... I said that the debate is irrational. That implies the nature of the debate... not the existence of the debate is irrational.

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You are way too easy to troll.***


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:42 PM
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Re: You are way too easy to troll.***

[1]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 5:05 PM
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Lets simplify it, sincee you are so dense:

Discussing renaming and how to do so is not irrational.

The current debate that is demanding we rename them IS irrational, because its being embodied in a glorified temper tantrum.


This is the current state of the "renaming" debate. There are 3 sides:
- 1 group of docile, but dumb extremists wanting to keep the symbols in place
- another group of extremists who want the symbols removed and immediately initiate violence and vandalism and refuse to have civil discussions
- and another group (which encompasses the vast majority of citizens) who really dont give a #### and move on with their lives because they dont let old statues and irrelevant flags only flown by rednecks in trailers parks affect their lives to this degree.

Do you think this is rational?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REM54O04KXE

https://nypost.com/2015/06/27/woman-climbs-flagpole-at-sc-statehouse-to-take-down-confederate-flag/

https://mic.com/articles/180840/south-carolina-woman-faces-charges-for-ripping-confederate-battle-flag-off-drivers-truck#.gPXqEWLjy


In this particular thread, your trolling is very weak.


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 5:14 PM
    Reply

You are usually good at it, IMO.

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You keep using that line of logic....I'm not sure it's

[2]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:22 PM
    Reply

as good as you're thinking. Anything that is a memorial of sorts is for the living, not the dead.

Using that logic, one could say "let's drive over Arlington cemetery with a bulldozer----you think they'd mind?

You're not taking the dead people's pulse (no pun intended) on the topic, you're considering the living.

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This was one of robertn's worst takes


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:48 PM
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He's usually better than that

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Re: So, remove the Founding Fathers too?***


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:14 PM
    Reply

Washington on either the quarter or dollar bill, but not both. Same with Lincoln and Jefferson. Just change things up.

Oh and take Kennedy off the 50 cent piece. He certainly didn't do a thing to deserve it.


You make it sound as if you believe "variety" is your


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:16 PM
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primary reason for wanting certain figures removed. It probably doesn't shock you that I don't buy that.

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Re: You make it sound as if you believe "variety" is your


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:22 PM
    Reply

Well you'd be wrong, which I guess you're used to.

There are two people I'm opposed to being on our money on their merits: Jackson and Kennedy.

And if I'm so opposed to Washington or Lincoln, why would I propose redesigning only one of the pieces which they adorn? Seems like you need to use this logic thing you preach about.

I collect currency and coins, so I like change. It's good for the hobby. It's hard to do because guys like you wet their pants if the Treasury suggests a major redesign. You act like taking Jackson off is a big deal when he hasn't even been on the 20 for 100 years.


I'm used to being wrong but I'm not sure that's the case now


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:28 PM
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Jackson, depending on your perspective, was an extremely effective president. I doubt your chief concern there is a lack of merit. And you can certainly point out I am wrong about this next leap I'm going to take.... I believe you want Tillman Hall renamed because he was an aggressive white supremacist. Am I wrong?

I think you are straw-manning your own position to give it more durability against those who may try to tear it down.

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Re: I'm used to being wrong but I'm not sure that's the case now


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:35 PM
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I don't really care about Tillman Hall. I'm not clamoring for a change and I'm not connected to the name enough to care if it changes. I don't care if it doesn't either.

Your last paragraph is what you want to be true, because you want a fight. You thought you saw a chance coming for you to act intellectually superior and I took that from you.


Lol, ok fair enough. I thought one thing, something else


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 5:11 PM
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turned out to be true.

Though, I didn't "want" it to be true. I know it's true about plenty of others because plenty of others have said that explicitly. I didn't want a fight, I just wanted an opportunity to communicate my perspective about something that interests me, but I see now that is not applicable here.

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“I collect currency and coins, so I like change.”

[1]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 10:31 PM
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That is gold, right there.

Or at least copper and nickel.

null


Re: “I collect currency and coins, so I like change.”


Posted: Feb 12, 2019 7:46 AM
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I was hoping someone would catch that. TU to you, good sir.


Didn’t realize Jackson led a campaign of murder


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:23 PM
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to keep blacks from voting.

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He led a campaign of ethnic cleansing that resulted in the


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:30 PM
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starvation and death from exposure of thousands of women and children.

Or does that not check any of your "outrage" boxes?

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Not sure and you're talking about


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:58 PM
    Reply

Native Americans. I haven't read that history in a while. Let me get back to you.

2019 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg


The more history you read, the more you'll


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 5:05 PM
    Reply

realize we'll have to rename and redesign everything.

That's the point. It's a ridiculous exercise.

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why is it ridiculous to rename a building?***


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 5:14 PM
    Reply




Re: why is it ridiculous to rename a building?***


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 5:17 PM
    Reply

https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/I-did-not-saying-changing-names-on-things-is-irrational-25062387

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okay, I think you're missing the point of the question...

[2]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 5:29 PM
    Reply

why is the debate dumb surrounding the naming or renaming of a building? Tillman Hall was given the name because his son thought his dad's legacy was being forgotten, so why then, is it dumb to use the same basis (Tillman's legacy) to rename the building?

or anything with historical names attached? We live in a changing society that chooses which people and ideals to celebrate through naming of buildings or the monuments on public lands so why is it ridiculous when those things are called on by some to be changed?

Now, I don't really have a strong feeling about this issue one way or the other, but your argument isn't making much sense to me and I'm more curious than anything about trying to understand it.


OK.

[1]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 8:36 PM
    Reply

The debate over this topic is not about how best to name or rename certain monuments. The debate is that because there are certain historical figures associated with aggressive racism or white supremacy, that they should be removed from monuments. In order to accomplish this goal, those in government who "know better" should make this decision without a vote.

The debate is irrational because it hypocritically chooses certain figures and certain topics involving certain people to be grounds for renaming or removing (like confederate battle flag) but they are inconsistently applied. People are cherry picking. It's all about political utility.

My beef with the debate is that it is grounded in hypocrisy and it involves a lot of historical ignorance.

Any debate that involves context and consistency, I love. This is the opposite. It's dishonest, ignorant and hypocritical.

2019 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

maybe I've missed a new part of this story...


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 10:00 PM
    Reply

but wasn't the idea that in the case of Tillman Hall, the vote would go to the board of trustees to possibly change as is the rules? Has this changed to arguing that those in government who "know better" should make the decision? Who are the people you are talking about who are using this for political utility?

Is your point that because those that want Tillman Hall's name changed (or Calhoun's name from Honors college) are not also demanding Jackson off the $20 (as an example), that it makes their argument irrational, dishonest and hypocritical? That doesn't logically make any sense, because for one, you don't know the totality of their positions and two, their positions on other figures has no weight when it comes to whether or not Tillman's name should be on a building based on his legacy. It's a bit absurd to say students arguing to change buildings on a campus they are heavily involved with and pay money to are hypocritical or irrational because they are also not yelling about Andrew Jackson being on the $20 bill.


You are trying to reword what I said.


Posted: Feb 12, 2019 7:57 AM
    Reply

Just read what I said if you want to know what I said. I didn't say what you said... and I'm not going to. I said what I said.

You are taking bits and pieces of what I said and re-ordering it and asking me if I am also saying that.

Deconstruction/Socratic Method only works if you keep the argument wholly in tact... not if you try and restructure or oversimplify it first.

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lol, you're a hoot.***


Posted: Feb 12, 2019 2:41 PM
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Re: lol, you're a hoot.***


Posted: Feb 13, 2019 7:49 AM
    Reply

When you say a hoot, I think you mean a nut.

2019 white level member

Oh look who couldn't help but unblock me again.


Posted: Feb 13, 2019 4:29 PM
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If you want to hide yourself in the corner and block me, then fine. But don't lurk around in the shadows and take cowardly pot shots without engaging me directly. Have some pride in yourself.

You are an intellectual coward who throws tantrums when you get stuck. Don't add bi*** to your resume too.

2019 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Re: Oh look who couldn't help but unblock me again.


Posted: Feb 13, 2019 5:06 PM
    Reply

I wasn't worried what you thought about it either way. That wasn't a pot shot. I really think that's what deweather probably meant. That's what I think.

2019 white level member

I do have my moments.***


Posted: Feb 13, 2019 4:31 PM
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Nah, he didn't...


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 5:02 PM
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But..........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

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Trump did tho***


Posted: Feb 13, 2019 4:43 PM
    Reply



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"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I am all out of bubblegum"


Maybe the first one

[1]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 4:46 PM
    Reply

Nobody's going to allow a "Hall of Humanitarian Studies" or for Fort Hill to be razed.

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juss keep yall's f*gg*t a**es away from my almer mater***


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 9:13 PM
    Reply



If she's a hollerer, she'll be a screamer.
If she's a screamer, she'll get you arrested.


Okay but where are we with flying cars?***

[1]
Posted: Feb 11, 2019 10:32 PM
    Reply



null


I feel like this issue peaked in 2017. No talk of it for a


Posted: Feb 11, 2019 10:33 PM
    Reply

while now


Clemson has been renamed to Snider University because


Posted: Feb 12, 2019 10:08 AM
    Reply

Thomas G Clemson was a slave-owner and fought for the Confederate side in the Civil War.

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Can we just add Liberals to Falls


Posted: Feb 12, 2019 7:14 PM
    Reply

Hunting Season?

-Doc

2005_ncaa_champ.jpg

I've been wrong two times, but this isn't one of them.


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