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All-In [47750]
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CU Medallion [73569]
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China is used to having US negotiators
May 13, 2019, 10:58 AM
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that bend over and take it from them.
I think they are learning quickly that aint gonna happen.
Gonna hurt for a little while but will be good long term.
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Oculus Spirit [83127]
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Why do you think negotiators in the Nixon, Ford,
May 13, 2019, 12:12 PM
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Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama have bent over and took it from them?
Thinking you don't really have a clue about that and think Trump has some sort of monopoly on toughest which is kind of nutty.
Same with NAFTA. He makes a few minor changes which Canada and Mexico eagerly accept and you think now he's some kind of tough negotiator.
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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Legend [15749]
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Profucious, it was the only way. We’re in the End Game now.
May 13, 2019, 11:16 AM
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Okay, not really. I just really liked the Avengers movies.
I don’t pretend to understand all that China does that is “unfair”, nor do I support tariffs in general. But now that we are here, best not to blink. I have read that these tariffs hurt China more than they hurt us. Hopefully that is true and it leads to a more fair trade environment in the future.
I would be curious to see what impact the tariffs are having on China, quantifiable.
Also, I do think this is a bad time for China to be in a trade war with us. Their wages were growing quickly and many industries were already looking at the next low cost countries.
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All-In [42196]
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What I worry about in all this...
May 13, 2019, 11:19 AM
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Is China is kind of like your petty sociopathic old woman neighbor. She never learns her lesson when you try to punish her or control her or report her to the HOA. She just concocts some other dirty, underhanded scheme to get back at you.
China will do something outlandish and drastic to get back at us.
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Legend [15749]
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May you live in interesting times.***
May 13, 2019, 11:21 AM
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Oculus Spirit [83127]
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Donald Sutherland from Disclosure, right?***
May 13, 2019, 12:39 PM
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Legend [15749]
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Don’t know where I heard it first but read that it is a
May 13, 2019, 1:17 PM
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“Chinese Curse.”
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Lot o points [155944]
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It's a culture where cheating/intellectual theft is not
May 13, 2019, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to What I worry about in all this... ] |
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only the norm, but it's actively encouraged.
We'll never get them to agree that it's wrong and they shouldn't do it. The best we can hope for is to make the penalty for doing it greater than the reward.
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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It will have to be a weird deal to come together,
May 13, 2019, 1:00 PM
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if it does at all. DJT's bragging ain't helping matters either. No matter what they agree to, China is going to try and skroo you at every turn...like Obed said, just part of their culture.
That said, the tariffs need to go on both sides. These are the two largest consumer economies in the world, wisdom for both countries should lead to zeroing out tariffs to strengthen both instead of stabbing back and forth at each other. Win-win. From there, not sure a long term deal would be in the US's best interest because Chinese manufacturers/services can't be relied on to play by the rules. Any deal should include revisiting and adjustment ability, say every 24 months or so. Instead of some wide ranging blanket agreement, make it more industry specific and give the major players input on what works best for them.
I don't believe the Chinese will truly honor any agreement that severely punishes IP theft or weakens their tech transfer requirements. American companies doing business in China will have to deal with it as a constant challenge, no matter what is agreed to. In the long term, US policy could incentivize offshore manufacturing with other countries; almost like an escape clause...spread it around some. Obviously, we,re not moving every US company out of China, but it would benefit US manufacturers and consumers long term to spread it around some. What countries offer better business environments and fewer security worries?
Bottom line, I don't want a long term iron-clad agreement with a partner that isn't bargaining in good faith. It makes no sense. Give US industry specific flexibility, identify milestones where renegotiation can happen and let the agreement on the whole evolve.
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