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Topic: Just out of curiosity...
Replies: 158   Last Post: Dec 8, 2019 5:29 PM by: Daboallin
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Just out of curiosity...

emoji_events [15]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 12:47 PM
 

How many of you were aware that we only had 8 scholarship players available against Minnesota?

To recap:

-Clyde Trapp, expected to start at guard this year, has been out all year with a torn ACL.
-Jonathan Baehre, expected to start at center this year, or at least be a key reserve, has been out all year with a torn ACL.
-Chase Hunter, true freshman who started a couple of games for us this year, has been injured for the last few games and unable to play.
-Alex Hemenway, true freshman who is arguably our best shooter on the team, has been injured for the last few games and unable to play.

This is in addition to Nick Honor, a transfer point guard from Fordham, sitting out this year after not being granted a waiver to play.

The 8 scholarship players we had available include:

-Two graduate seniors
-One junior
-Three sophomores
-Two freshmen

We knew going into the season that we were a very young team with a lot of new faces. Growing pains are to be expected, with moments of brilliance and also moments of frustration.

I am interested in knowing how many people here, especially those who are down on our basketball team this year, are aware of these challenges. If so, I would hope that it would allow for our team to be shown some grace.

As our young team gains more experience, and as our injured players return, I predict you'll see more success. These guys are working really hard and as always, thrive on fan support.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Listen lady, I'm going to guess that almost everyone,

emoji_events [23]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 12:51 PM
 

if not everyone, knew that. But here we are, 10 years into the CBB experience and we're being asked to show him some grace or cut him some slack? JFC, I'm not doing it. We lost to a $#!tty team, that's the fact. And you're a couple days too late to make excuses for that loss.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Woman, are you always this emotional?


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 12:58 PM
 

Did I catch you during that time of the month?

P.S. You need to learn the difference between explanations and excuses. No excuses were being made in my post, ma'am.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Take me to your manager.

emoji_events [25]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:03 PM
 



2020 purple level member

If pigs are so smart, why do 66% of them use weak and inferior materials during construction?


Re: Take me to your manager.

emoji_events [11]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:11 PM
 

.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


oh lawd, why am i crying right now in a starbucks

[4]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:46 AM
 

nothing against you Judge but this is some of 94's best work

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Re: oh lawd, why am i crying right now in a starbucks

[4]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 12:28 PM
 



2020 purple level member

If pigs are so smart, why do 66% of them use weak and inferior materials during construction?


Are you kidding? It’s hilarious!!***

[3]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 3:05 PM
 



2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


No, it's an excuse. We've made excuses for Brad Brownell

emoji_events [15]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:35 PM
 

for years. Even the best of coaches have a down year where the team is young, dealing with injuries, etc. But for good coaches, that's the exception rather than the rule. Those years are outliers. For Brad, the two trips to the NCAA Tournament are the outlier years. So we'll just add it to the list:

-OP left in the middle of the night
-The cupboard was left empty
-It's hard to recruit to a rural school
-Clemson only cares about football
-KJ surprised CBB and left early
-Littlejohn sucks
-They had to play an entire season without a home game
-Fan support is terrible
-The team isn't given the resources they need
-And now, in his 10th season, the team is too young to beat a crappy Minnesota team

Which excuses did I miss, Karen?

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


I'm not sure what you expect.

[2]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:56 PM
 

Since the administration finally gave him the facilities he requested (even though he had to personally raise most of that money himself), and the support staff he requested, we've clearly improved in terms of wins and in recruiting. If you can't see that, you aren't paying attention.

We have won 20 games each of the past two years:

2017-2018: 25-10 overall, 9-7 in the ACC, NCAA Sweet 16
2018-2019: 20-14 overall, 9-9 in the ACC, NIT second round

Our freshmen this year are the best we've had in the Brownell era, and our incoming 2020 recruiting class is top 30 and among the best we've ever had in men's basketball since recruiting became a science.

Our program isn't perfect, but for you and others to continue to act like this year and the last few years are just "more of the same" and all of that crap, it speaks volumes about your true agenda. You don't seem to truly care about our basketball program nearly as much as you do tearing it down. If that's not correct, then you've done a poor job communicating your thoughts.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


You don't think Dabo went out and raised most of the

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:15 PM
 

money himself for the football team's building?

The last few years have not been more of the same, because there was a clear outlier in the 2017-2018 season. Then it was followed up with more of the same last year when we were relegated to the NIT.

I'm glad that recruiting has picked up, I just wish we had a coach that could get it done in games. So far, I have not seen that happen and we are in year 10.

I'm not interested in tearing down our program, but I'm not interested in making excuses either.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Again, no one is making excuses. ***


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 4:48 PM
 



2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Definition of excuse:

emoji_events [10]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 4:58 PM
 

"a reason or explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense"

So Judge Karen, are you not putting forward the explanation that we didn't have a full roster against Minnesota in an attempt to defend or justify the loss? Did you not do the same when talking about resources, facilities, a lack of staff, etc?

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


lol

emoji_events [10]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:26 PM
 



2020 purple level member

If pigs are so smart, why do 66% of them use weak and inferior materials during construction?


No, I don't think Dabo had to raise most of the money


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 3:24 PM
 

for football facilities. I think the university helped him greatly with that, which wasn’t too difficult because football is king here and our fans had longed for a top 10-15 program for two decades.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: No, it's an excuse. We've made excuses for Brad Brownell


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 7:01 AM
 

"Which excuses did I miss, Karen?"

I thought it was Helen.


Re: Just out of curiosity...

emoji_events [9]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 12:54 PM
 

.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


So that's a no from you.***

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 12:59 PM
 



2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


I absolutely knew it

emoji_events [9]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:00 PM
 

as do most people that follow the team.

Funny thing is you disappeared for nearly three days to come up with that!?!?

Oh, and your buddy RW43 is the one that outed you as a she, in case you were wondering

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


I didn't disappear to come up with my next post.

[2]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:58 PM
 

As you know, I don't live on TigerNet, nor do I spend my time away from TigerNet thinking about my next post.

Since you clearly do, I'm surprised that your posts are so average.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: I didn't disappear to come up with my next post.

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:01 PM
 

says the guy running at a 90.6% post to TU Rate vs 221% for CUTigerDave

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


ouch

emoji_events [9]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 3:22 PM
 

https://imgflip.com/i/3ijjk8


2020 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

I beg to differ

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:04 PM
 

you were on here for days in a row up to the most recent loss. We lost you disappeared. It's that simple.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


Sorry to disappoint you, but I wasn’t staying away from TigerNet


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 4:59 PM
 

because we lost a game or because I was afraid of what people on TigerNet would think. LMAO.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Well

[3]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:04 PM
 

when you are constantly making excuses for why we lose it makes one wonder!

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


I didn't make any excuses for losing to Virginia Tech.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 4:20 PM
 

I thought it was a bad loss, and I've said so several times.

I am also routinely here after losses. You're welcome to check my post history to see.

In contrast, there are plenty of people who rarely show up after a win (especially a good win).

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: Just out of curiosity...

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 12:55 PM
 

You're in charge of the program. You're in charge of recruiting. You're in charge of building teams that transition from year to year. Enough excuses CBB. Let's see some results.

2020 white level member

It isn't an excuse, it's reality.


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:02 PM
 

If we had lost to Minnesota with our full team, or at least more than 8 scholarship players, I'd understand the frustration more. But Minnesota had more players than we have, and provided a tough environment to play in (something we don't tend to do in Littlejohn).

How would our beloved football team fare if 1/3rd of the team were injured?

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Our beloved football team would probably go 9-3

emoji_events [11]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:42 PM
 

and still go to a nice bowl, maybe even contend for an ACC Championship. Our football coaches are great recruiters and coach depth better than anyone. It's amazing what good coaching can do.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Luckily for Dabo...

emoji_events [10]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:51 PM
 

We didn’t lose our best defensive lineman for the playoffs last year.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


LOL, that's your retort?


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:02 PM
 

We are without several starters on the basketball team. Not having one player on defense is hardly the same thing.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


There you go again....

[4]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:08 PM
 

We're without 1 starter(Chase Hunter).

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


That’s misleading and you know it.


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:07 PM
 

Hunter was the only current starter we were missing, but Trapp would be a starter if healthy and Baehre probably would as well.

Anything to make our loss seem worse though, right?

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


We lost by 18 points to an awful team

[2]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:14 PM
 

I don't think there is anything that can make that loss seem worse.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


It's a little early to say that Minnesota is an awful team.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:11 PM
 

Besides, I've never claimed that Minnesota is a great team or that it's okay to lose to them. I'm disappointed that we lost to them, because I think we will prove to be a better team than they are this year.

It doesn't change the fact that we are a young team with a lot of new faces - and are battling significant injuries right now.

Why can't you acknowledge that we were short-handed against them? Doing so doesn't take away from the fact that we still would've liked to win the game, and missed an opportunity to get a decent non-conference win.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


I’m being misleading???? LOL

[4]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:22 PM
 

You say we’re missing multiple starters and then mention 2 guys that haven’t played this year...

Also, whose spot would trapp take? My money is on Hunter....

So again, how many starters are we down? Seems like we’re back to 1 considering you said yourself that Baehre “probably would”.

Also, a loss is a loss is a loss. I’m just tired of your excuses every time we lose a game.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


I never claimed that Minnesota was a good loss


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:08 PM
 

or that we shouldn't have beaten them. I think we will prove to be a better team than them this year, and I'm disappointed that we lost - especially by that much.

But you're simply not being objective about our basketball team if you can't see that our injuries and youth had an impact on the outcome. Whether or not having everyone healthy would've resulted in a different outcome is anyone's guess.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


there she is...avoidance and non response followed up by


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:22 PM
 

Excuses and why can’t you just agree that I’m right, because I’m always right...

Back in true form tonight, I see.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Avoidance and non response? Huh?


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:28 PM
 

What exactly am I avoiding and not responding to?

I've responded to numerous posts in this thread, despite the fact that with only a couple of exceptions, no one has answered the question in my original post:

Were you aware that we only had 8 scholarship players available against Minnesota?

It was an honest question that is worth exploring.

I am still waiting on your answer. So at this point, YOU are the one avoiding.

Looking forward to hearing you answer, babe.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


dear lord, you are so full of it....You literally answered none of the


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:37 PM
 

Questions I asked....

Yes I knew and I responded to your idiotic excuse about being down “several starters”, which you still won’t admit is a flat out lie.

Keep going with the excuses in an attempt to protect your precious, it’s getting you nowhere fast. but hey, whatever you need to sleep at night, Karen....

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Did you answer the question I asked


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:49 PM
 

in my original post?

If so, I apologize that I missed it. But I don't think you did.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


do you know how to read?


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:58 PM
 

And still waiting on those answers per the usual....

Petty deflection technique to a stupid excuse, that most people were very aware of.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


I’m not deflecting or avoiding anything.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:06 PM
 

You are.

If you’ve asked questions I haven’t answered, please repost them.

Likewise, I’d appreciate it if you would answer my original question.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


i Already have, now on multiple occasions(hence “do you know how to read”)


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:08 PM
 

and you’re still Deflecting....

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


You haven't answered my question.


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 2:45 PM
 

Nor have you reposted the questions here that you claim I haven't answered.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Keep deflecting...not answering again and not going out of


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 4:11 PM
 

My way to repost for you to continue to deflect...

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Dawes is better than Trapp

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 6:06 PM
 

Trapp is not an ACC PG


I agree, but Trapp will be our SG, not our PG.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:20 PM
 

The plan for Trapp to be our PG was only before we signed Dawes and Honor.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Well...

[2]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 3:41 PM
 

There are 2.6 scholarships available for each basketball position, and only 2.5 for football. So technically, there are fewer options for a replacement in football.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


It's also amazing what support for a program will do.


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:00 PM
 

Now that Brad has the facilities he asked for for years, and the support staff he asked for for years, we've experienced a clear uptick in our program.

We've won 20 games each of the past two years, and our recruiting class we just signed is top 30 nationally.

Now if our fans would just support our basketball program with 1/4th of the gusto they do our football program, we might actually have a home court advantage and help our basketball program take the next step faster.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


You do realize Dabo earned the support for the football team

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:06 PM
 

We were in a bad place. A ton of people doubted he could even get it done. He changed the culture of the program and the support came from there.

That simply has not happened in 10 yrs under the current regime in basketball.

Look, I want us to be good at everything we do but the same ole song and dance for 10 yrs is getting very tiresome!

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Make it idjit proof and someone will make a better idjit.


Generally speaking, our fans support football regardless.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:18 PM
 

Besides, we weren't in nearly as bad of a place when Dabo took over compared to where we were when:

-Hatfield took over (NCAA sanctions possibly/probably coming if Ford had stayed, as well as low morale because some fans couldn't accept the fact that Danny was gone)
-West took over (fans who still weren't over Ford not being our coach, as well as the decline in overall talent level)
-Bowden took over (talent level was at its lowest since the early-mid 70s, and fan apathy had set in)

Dabo inherited a team that was picked in the top 10 to start the season, and had just signed a top 5-10 recruiting class. We had underachieved due to inconsistency, and certainly had his work cut out for him to make us an elite program - but most fans would've been excited to simply win our division and compete for ACC championships at that point.

This isn't to take away from what Dabo has done - he's been awesome, and transformed our program - but let's not act like he took over a football program that was the worst in ACC history, convinced fans that they should care about football, convinced the administration to support football, and convince recruits to consider us when they hadn't before. Dabo walked into a great situation at a football school, with a fan base which was passionate about football, with a supportive administration, in an area with plenty of good high school talent in the region. You simply can't equate our football program with our basketball program, which doesn't have the history, recruiting territory, fan support, or administrative support football has (and has had, for a long time which precedes Dabo).

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


JFC


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:30 PM
 



2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


I'm not sure why you keep responding to my posts.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:57 PM
 

You clearly disagree with me, to the point that you post sarcastic responses or gifs. I'm happy to share my opinions, but you never seem to find them anything but annoying or awful. So why do you keep engaging?

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Says the guy that continually responds....***

[1]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:13 PM
 



2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Why do you think fans don't support the team the same way

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:22 PM
 

they do the football team? Did fans support the team when we were on a 3 year stretch of making the tournament every year? Did they support the team in CBB's first year? What happened in subsequent years when we stopped making post-season tournaments?

We went through all of the attendance numbers last year, we went year-by-year. I'm not doing it again, but you know as well as I do that Clemson fans will support the basketball team when it is a consistent winner. Do the players deserve better? Absolutely, 100% yes. But it's not going to happen until Brad starts making the tournament more often than not, or he gets fired and a new coach comes in and wins.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


The misconception that Clemson basketball


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 6:29 PM
 

should be a tournament team consistently, needs to end. They’ve made the tournament 11/12 times in the 80 years of the tournament’s existence. Which is a whopping 14%, and even the most successful coaches have left soon after they’ve made the tournament. If you’re looking for a coach to make the tournament more than not at Clemson make sure you find someone real good, and someone is crazy loyal. And I don’t know how often that tends to happen.


In 1985 the tournament expanded to 64 teams

[2]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 1:30 PM
 

Since that time, Clemson has made the tournament 11 times in 35 years. That's ~31% of the time. Brad made it twice in 9 years, ~22% of the time. If he makes it this year he is close to our history at 30%. If not, he drops to 20%

OP made it 3 out of 7 years - ~43%

Shyatt - well we all know he was 0%

Barnes - 3 out of 4 - 75%

Ellis, who takes us back to that 1985 year - 2 out of 10 - 20%

I agree we would need a really good coach who is crazy loyal, and the odds of doing that are slim. Honestly though, IMO having a coach come in and get us to the tourney a few times before moving on like Barnes and OP did is more exciting than the last 9 seasons. The Sweet 16 run was great fun to watch, but short-lived.

If Brad is still the coach next year, and I expect he will be, I look forward to seeing what he can do with the current young team that will have a year of experience plus the top 30 recruiting class he has coming in. If that's a failure, then it's time to move on.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


There are several reasons why our fans don’t support basketball like they do football.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:11 PM
 

The main ones are:

1. Basketball isn’t nearly as popular in the south as football is.
2. Basketball games aren’t the event that football games are (tailgating, socializing, drinking, etc.).
3. There are more basketball games, including midweek games and games at less ideal times for fans.

Our performance on the court certainly affects attendance, but even when we have been an NCAA Tournament team, we weren’t consistently selling out Littlejohn.

To suggest that our program under Brad is the reason we don’t have great crowds is failing to tell most of the story about basketball at Clemson.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: There are several reasons why our fans don’t support basketball like they do football.

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2019 12:14 AM
 

I’m guessing you’re too young to remember people camping for tickets under Barnes

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I remember.


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 2:47 PM
 

That was the exception, not the rule.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: I remember.

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2019 3:34 PM
 

Lol. Why do you think it was the exception? Do you think the student body was just gripped with temporary insanity and momentarily cared about basketball? Or just maybe a coach gave us something to get behind. And it wasn’t just wins. Barnes was 5-11 in the ACC his first year. But his teams played above their pay grade and he refused to take any crap from the Tobacco Road powers that be. The blueprint has been sitting in front of any coach that wants it for 20 years. But you have to be able coach competitive basketball and score an upset once in awhile too.

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You forget just how nice Littlejohn was back then...


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 6:39 PM
 

big advantage for Barnes.

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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: It's also amazing what support for a program will do.

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 3:23 PM
 

Great. When we finally hire a good coach it won’t be a total rebuild.

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People supported Brad just fine. In case you didn't realize it,

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 6:24 PM
 

when your senior laden class loses in the 2nd round of the NIT, and when it's like watching Groundhog Day every year but one, then yeah, "support" is bound to dwindle. Here's a novel idea - WIN. Support was fine until the recurring theme of subpar basketball became the norm. In year 10, heck year 5 on, we should have been seeing a much better product. One decent NCAA run in 10 years is not acceptable. And dont cite me any "history" because then you're saying we should expect to be bad. That would be lame. We should expect more from our basketball program.


Ok, I’ll bite

[4]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:19 PM
 

The football program deals with key injuries regularly

We lost our best player the very first snap of the LSU Peach Bowl and managed to win the game

We lost our best player for at least half of the 2014 season and managed to finish 10-3

We had some key injuries on the DL in 2016 and managed to figure out how to shuffle the available personnel to make it work

We had extensive injuries at DB in 2017 and managed to win with a starting WR taking snaps at CB

We had our best player knocked out last year vs Syracuse and managed to come back & win with our backup at the helm

Yes, I know it’s apples-oranges because the basketball team doesn’t have an 85 man roster like football does. Simply pointing out that the football program can & does experience significant injuries to key players on a regular basis.

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Basketball doesn’t have 85 players...

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:34 PM
 

but they also don’t have 33 positions to fill.

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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


That's like, seven players per position.

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:39 PM
 

Your point is invalid.

2020 purple level member

If pigs are so smart, why do 66% of them use weak and inferior materials during construction?


Re: Ok, I’ll bite

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 3:38 PM
 

I like Coach Brownell, and numbers wise, he is probably a better basketball coach than the Cliff Dweller or Purnell. That’s just my opinion, but Coach Brownell tends to win more conference games than he loses in most years. The frustrating thing with virtually ALL of Brownell’s teams is he NEVER seems to EVER have more than one true scorer. The year he had multiple scorers, look what he did. Had Grantham not blown out his knee, Brownell had a legit Final Four level team in 2017-2018. It always seems that scoring is the big issue with his teams. They are coached well and usually always play excellent defense. They simply can’t shoot seemingly EVER, and I think that has obviously boiled down to talent. When he has some talent, I think we will all be shocked to see what Coach Brownell can really do. To me, I think the true clock for Coach Brownell started after the 2017-2018 season. He finally had great facilities and some legit success to recruit with, and that will NEVER be easy with Clemson’s mediocre to down right putrid basketball history. If he is still NIT bound three years from now, I’d finally be convinced he can’t cut the mustard. However, considering what he has done in the last ten years, especially with how awful the program was when he took over in 2010, and the legacy of Clemson’s pathetic ACC basketball history, I think he has done pretty well.

Think about it: Since the year he became the coach here (2010) there have been FOUR different current ACC teams that have won the national title (Duke, UNC, Virginia, Louisville (and I know Mouisville won it in 2013 and didn’t join the ACC until 2014. But, they are still a blue blood that was added to this league). Comparatively, that would be like taking over as the football coach at a team with a football history like Wake Forest or N.C. State and having to contend against not just one “Clemson type” football program, but four. That’s hard. Really hard. He’s a good coach, he runs a clean program, and he isn’t some egotistical horse’s butt that you often see in the coaching profession.

He also seems to have a genuine friendship with Coach Swinney, and having a good relationship with the football coach will always be a positive at a football centric school like Clemson. He never seems to be uber negative and whiny, and when a basketball coach can be mostly positive at a school like Clemson (with it’s pitiful basketball history, while playing in the consistently best basketball conference in America) is impressive in and of itself.

P.S. and to piggy back on what the Judge is saying, I have to agree with him. Missing the players he was missing the other night would be like having key starters out in the defensive and offensive lines, along with injuries at linebacker, running back, and quarterback. That wouldn’t be easy, even for a hall of famer like Coach Swinney. I’m all for giving Coach Brownell at least another three years. I mean, I’ve closely followed Clemson basketball since 1987, and with the exception of about twelve of those years, it has been a pretty miserable experience. Three more years is nothing. Take heart, my fellow Tigers!


Did you say the program was awful when he took over

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 3:54 PM
 

in 2010? Coming off of 3 straight tournament appearances? Making a 4th straight NCAA Tournament appearance in Brad's first year...the program was awful?

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: Did you say the program was awful when he took over

[2]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 6:39 PM
 

I’ll state that, yes, I believe it was. Here’s why: after two of the last three coaching changes, Clemson shouldn’t have stunk, but they did. When Rick Barnes left in 1998, Clemson had been to three straight NCAAs. With Shyatt (and former players said that Shyatt would be good and he was a former Barnes staff member) the team didn’t even make the NCAAs the next year in 1999. By 2000, it was a disaster, and it stayed that way for about six years. When Purnell left, Brownell came in and inherited most of Purnell’s outgoing talent, which wasn’t expected to do all that much, but he took them to the Tournament. The few years after that, the team was really bad at times, but aside from a couple of wretched years, Brownell has never consistently stunk. He hasn’t been consistently good either, but he hasn’t consistently stunk, and at Clemson, that’s saying something.

So, what is the common theme? I’ll tell you what I think it is: Clemson is a poor to fair to middling program that is nothing more than what a Rutgers, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Washington State, Iowa State, etc., etc. are in football. It is nothing more than a resume building program for coaches who want to take a chance in the big leagues, climb the ranks, and catapult themselves to a bigger and richer steeped in tradition program. Thats the only type of program Clemson has ever really been, at least for most of my entire life. Basketball doesn’t get the support at Clemson that football does, and it probably never will. Sure, we can have good coaches come in here that are either really good recruiters or program builders, but they will never stay. Brownell actually has, and I don’t think it is because no one else wants him. I think he actually WANTS to stay, and for Clemson basketball and it’s fans, I don’t think that’s something we should just take for granted and throw away.

Let’s say Brownell gets canned at the end of the year, and Clemson goes out and hires some up and comer who takes Clemson to the NCAAs three years in a row. Do you actually think they would stay if a Texas, Ohio State, Purdue, California, or Arizona State came calling? Of course not. And, notice I deliberately picked big schools that have had basketball success in the past, but aren’t blue bloods in the sport. That’s Clemson’s problem in basketball, and it always will be, especially if good coaches like Brownell are run off because they can’t make the NCAAs consistently at Clemson. Guess what. No one else ever has either. You think Barnes or Purnells’s run would have continued had they stayed? I don’t. I think that’s one of the big reasons they left. They knew what Clemson was. Brownell, amazingly, hasn’t done this. He has stayed, and I think we should at least let this next four year recruiting cycle play out before we kick him to the curb.


Thank you for your reply, I appreciate a well thought out

[3]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:13 AM
 

and articulated response as opposed to Judge Karen's normal "I want to speak to your manager" rhetoric.

I don't think our basketball history should be used as an excuse or a crutch. There have been football first schools in rural settings, like VPI&SU who have fired coaches like CBB and hired someone who turned their program around quickly. Did Buzz leave for what he thought was a better opportunity? Yes, but he generated momentum and excitement. Now we'll see if Mike Young can keep that going and if he can he will likely stay there until he retires.

I also do not agree that the 2010-2011 Clemson team was not expected to do much. I think the ACC media predicted they would finish around 6th or 7th (sorry I don't remember exactly and I'm too lazy to look it up) in the ACC, which put them on the bubble for the tournament. That team had Stitt (RIP), Young and Grant, along with some talented role players like Tanner Smith, B-Nice and Jennings. People can say what they want about Jennings, but he was the highest rated recruit Clemson has ever landed and he was just a sophomore heading into that year. To suggest that they weren't expected to do much, in my opinion, is revisionist history.

I think if Barnes or OP had stayed their runs would have continued. I think both of them would make the tournament more often than their successors did/have. I also do not believe CBB has stayed at Clemson because he's a lifer here. Just my opinion and based on no facts whatsoever, if a big midwestern program like Ohio State or Purdue wanted to hire him he'd probably already be gone.

It's a dangerous path to keep saying "he should get 3-4 more years to work with this recruiting cycle" because we've been saying that for so long. People aren't going to the games now because of Brad, you're taking a big risk to keep waiting for him to succeed...if he fails 3-4 years from now how much worse will the program be?

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: Thank you for your reply, I appreciate a well thought out

[2]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:39 AM
 

No problem, sir. I am usually critiqued for being a bit verbose, so it is nice to get complimented for it. To answer your question in a cursory manner: in 3-4 more years of Coach Brownell (if he doesn’t show marked improvement) I think the program will stay right where it is: not that bad, but not that good. The one thing that Coach Brownell has illustrated to me is that if this is truly is level of “coaching ability,” he may never be great, but he will never be really bad. So, giving him three more years will, at worst, leave the program about right where it has been: NIT/to NCAA bubble and anywhere from 8-12 to 10-10 to 11-9 in conference play.

However, I do not think that is where it will be because I do think Coach Brownell is a good coach, and I hope and think he will start to show marked improvement in the next recruiting cycle. And, to be totally transparent, I have always been on the side to give great pause to calling for coaches’ heads. While I was just a young adolescent when Coach Hatfield was at Clemson, I remember that debacle. Hatfield may not have been the coach for Clemson, but I think he was a good coach for a time, and he wasn’t treated well at all by many fans. I taught school with a good coaching friend of Coach Hatfield, and knowing that gentleman like I do, if he says Hatfield was a good coach, I believe it. Nevertheless, my statements here are not to reopen a debate about Coach Hatfield because I know that is still a sore issue with many of the fan base. But, even though they are paid handsomely, I know many coaches are also good people. It is a hard business, and when they put that coach’s hat on, they morph into something a bit different, but the man off the field/court are often warm, friendly, and giving. Having said that, I always hate to see coaches who run clean programs and have hard jobs (like a football HC at Duke, or a basketball HC at Clemson) get canned when many people never really understand how hard a job they really have. Brownell has a hard job. He really does because of where he is, which is my point. You make a solid point about VA Tech, but if Young is good there, he might bolt like Williams (who has been called my doppelgänger by some who know me) (Side note: there are some pictures of Williams where I have even said, “dang, he does kinda look like me). Anyhow, I digress.

In closing, I truly believe the only way Clemson is EVER going to get out of the decades of misery and mediocrity in basketball is to have a good coach who stays a long time to build a tradition, kinda like what Beamer did at Va Tech and what Bowden did at FSU. If we don’t ever see that kind of coach at Clemson, I don’t think we will ever really be seriously competitive in basketball. Now, after ten years is Brownell that man? Many would say no, but I think he might just be, and I’m pulling hard for him to actually and finally build something of Clemson basketball and actually want to see it grow into greatness. We will never be a great program with hired mercenaries. We may have good to great teams, but we will NEVER have a great program. Ultimately, I agree with Coach Swinney (this is a paraphrase, but I’ll use quotation marks) “I don’t want just a great team, I want a great program.” Amen and Amen.

P.S. That was hardly a cursory response, so I apologize. The verbosity just flows from me. Sorry.


Re: Thank you for your reply, I appreciate a well thought out

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 12:15 PM
 

I will throw my thoughts into this civil discussion, since it seems as much.

While I agree that the word 'awful' probably shouldn't have been used to describe the program's status when Oliver Purnell left in 2010, I agree that the program's projected path was, at best, ticking sideways, if not ticking down. We lost MAJOR scoring production off of Purnell's last two teams (Trevor Booker, KC Rivers, David Potter, Raymond Sykes), all made worse by the early and unexpected departure of Terrence Oglesby (to me, one of the more underrated basketball reasons why it made sense to believe Purnell MIGHT have seen some different writing on the wall). Couple that with the fact that, in 2009-10, you bring in the best recruiting class in the history of the school, and it becomes pretty evident that those guys were either longer-term projects than one wanted them to be (Milton Jennings, Devin Booker) or complete misses/busts/head cases (Noel Johnson, Donte Hill). On top of that, Purnell had struck out on the recruiting trail multiple times for the 2010 class, which was why he was due to only bring in one scholarship player (Marcus Thornton) to replace three outgoing seniors (Trevor Booker, David Potter, Karolis Petrukonis) after the 2009-10 season. When the "cupboard was bare" argument comes up, those are the facts people are referring to.

The players you mentioned on Brownell's first team had never been anything other than role players. Even Buddy, as solid as he was for all four years, by his own admission, didn't come into being a key scoring threat and leader until Brad came in. Jerai Grant was a garbage man...he played the back of the press and cleaned up on the boards on offense for his first three years. He blossomed as a true post threat in his senior year. My point being that there WERE a lot of questions that needed to be answered that offseason to get that team to buy in and rally to the point of even being considered a possibility for the NCAA Tournament.

As an aside, we finished 4th in the ACC in 2010-11 (preseason media put us 7th). 5th place Boston College (NIT), 6th place Virginia Tech (NIT) and 7th place Maryland all missed out on the NCAA Tournament, with Maryland missing the postseason altogether.

COULD Oliver have continued his successful run? Possibly...but I think it's more than fair to say that there was more evidence that he wouldn't be as successful in the future than there was evidence to support him maintaining the NCAA appearances every year.

In regards to the future, I am on board with at least next year. I want to see progression from this year to next year before I put a blanket statement out there and claim he gets a third year, but I also believe we will be VERY, VERY good next year. One thing I think most fans won't see is how big Nick Honor's ineligibility is to this team. They won't see that until next year. When is the last time Brownell has had two legitimate, interchangeable, ACC-quality true point guards (not combo guards sliding over) in his lineup? I can't recall a time. The depth will be better than he's ever had next year, due to having to play the freshman guards this year more than he's ever played a freshman at any point during his tenure with the program (aside from MAYBE Donte Grantham). And I think most can see, especially for Dawes at this point, that the freshmen this year are lightyears beyond freshman guards we have brought in, in the past 6-8 years. It's not even close. I loved Rod Hall, but him side-by-side with Dawes as a freshman...no comparison.

Those who follow the recruiting trail this year will know that we can safely anticipate seeing similar things out of Prosper and Hall next year, adding much-needed depth to our front court. Baehre returning for 2020-21 will be huge in terms of our depth at the center position (unless Jemison shows drastic improvement). But with this being the depth chart (give or take some positions, due to versatility) next year, my opinion is we should be unequivocally better next year, which would show, with the young core of Newman, Dawes, Hunter, Honor, Moore, Prosper and Hall, that optimism for 2021-22 is not unrealistic.

PG: Dawes, Honor
SG: Hunter, Trapp, Hemenway
SF: Newman, Moore, Prosper
PF: Simms, Tyson, Hall
C: Baehre, Jemison

And for those who hate the transfer method of recruiting, we're full up for next year, unless we get an unexpected departure from the list above. 13 scholarship players for next year...this "he can't recruit high school talent" narrative (in general from folks) needs to stop.


Re: Thank you for your reply, I appreciate a well thought out

[2]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 1:09 PM
 

You make excellent points, TigerTV. I am far from a close follower of the recruiting trail, but those players sound encouraging for next year. I was excited to see the new faces for this year, and it was too bad that man wasn’t cleared to play this year. To me, I think Brownell has done a good job using the portal, and he has also begun to bring in better high school players in this year, and from what you say, next year too.


Thank you for this excellent post.

[2]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 3:17 PM
 

I hope many here will take your post to heart.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: Did you say the program was awful when he took over

[1]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:40 AM
 

This is a severely underappreciated and uncommon viewpoint. Well done.


Re: Did you say the program was awful when he took over


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 9:21 AM
 

This may be a well organized, civil response but it is wrong on almost every count. Your opening point is that you believe Purnell inherited an “awful” team because you believe the teams “stunk” after two of the three last coaching changes. This a logical fallacy, pretty much a gambler’s fallacy. The state of the team at those previous changeovers has no relation to the change between Purnell/Brownell.

“ Brownell has never consistently stunk” - Even a program with the modest expectations of Clemson should expect to make the NIT every year. Cliff Ellis only failed to make the NIT twice. Purnell showed constant improvement. Making the NIT his second season and never failing to quailfy again. Brownell failed to be NIT qualified 4 of his first 6 seasons and seems headed that way this year. Again, we’re talking about the extraordinarily minimal goal of making the NIT.

Your second paragraph isn’t much about Brownell per se, except for “ and I don’t think it is because no one else wants him. I think he actually WANTS to stay, and for Clemson basketball and it’s fans, I don’t think that’s something we should just take for granted and throw away.” This is entirely conjecture on your part. Exactly who else wants him? Would his 2/6 post-season qualified seasons to start his tenure have really have him the target of a lot of search committees? According to USA Today he’s the 29th best paid coach in basketball. Which of the 28 better paid positions do you think would seriously consider hiring Brad Brownell? That we should appreciate him because he stays is Stockholm Syndrome.

“You think Barnes or Purnells’s run would have continued had they stayed? I don’t.” This is more conjecture untethered from reality. Shyatt inherited a team with 3 senior starters that was expected to be a shoe-in for a return to the NCAAs. Barnes, in his first season made Clemson basketball exciting while fielding a team dubbed by the media as possibly the worst in the history of the ACC. You really want to argue he couldn’t have continued to build momentum? Obviously he would have had some ebb and flow but there is nothing in his record here or elsewhere to suggest he would have suddenly failed to make the postseason on the regular. Brownell extended the tourney run started by Purnell then failed to make it again for 6 seasons. Purnell didn’t miss the NIT after season 1. There is no reason to suspect he couldn’t have maintained his very high consistency. Purnell may have plateaued but it was a very high plateau by Clemson basketball standards. His departure should have allowed Clemson to make a step forward in basketball. Instead, we have taken a major step back. This season will almost assuredly be 8 of 10 not selected for the NCAA and very well be 5 of 10 not making the NIT. Even if we sneak into the NIT a 60% NIT qualified 20% NCAA qualified record is a very low return on our investment.

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Re: Did you say the program was awful when he took over

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2019 11:27 AM
 

Opinions vary, my friend. Most of my comments may have been “speculative” about what might have happened had Barnes and Purnell stayed, but what I think gives me credence is two things: what did Clemson do in the SECOND AND THIRD YEARS after Barnes and Purnell left? If they had left the program in such great or solid shape, the wheels shouldn’t have fallen off in just the SECOND AND THIRD YEARS after their departures, but they did. Really, really bad. I just went back and looked, and it was a minor miraculous coaching job Brownell did in 2011-2012 to finish with a winning record and go 8-8 in conference play. The third years were awful. They DID NOT leave the program in good shape. They just didn’t, and history proves it.

Furthermore, Clemson is a DEVELOPMENTAL basketball program. It has to be. We are very much like a Wake or Duke in football in that regard. Most programs like that, if they have decent coaches will tend to show markedly improved seasons every three to four years when two and three star recruits have had time to develop into competitive players in a league like the ACC. What has Brownell done every fourth year? He won 23 games in his fourth year (and made the NIT Semis) and he won 25 games his eighth year (Top 4 in the ACC, and he made the Sweet 16). Also, let’s not forget that during his second four year stretch he had to play his home game in flipping Greenville! How the crap are you supposed to recruit like that? Brownell, at a developmental program, as pretty much done a good job when you look at it that way. And, what happens when developmental programs change coaches every three-five years? They tend to be very very bad. (see Duke football from about 1998-2008 as an example).

The second thing that gives much of my comments, while perhaps speculative, credence: The history of Clemson basketball itself. Clemson has NEVER made the NCAA Final Four. NEVER. NEVER EVER. They have been playing basketball since 1911 at Clemson. The NCAA has existed since 1939. They have made the Elite Eight ONCE. They have never won an ACC Tournament. They have won the “regular season championship” (?? this one has always cracked me up because the ACC Champion is determined by the ACC Tournament, not the regular season, so teams like UNC have always seemingly liked to cling to that one. Sorry, I got distracted). Good grief, how many times has FSU made the Elite Eight since they joined the league? I know at least twice. They aren’t some legendary basketball program either. Clemson has one of the most putrid basketball histories in all of the Power 5. That’s just a fact, and my point is that we will NEVER be good unless we have a coach who is competent (and Brownell is) can recruit (I think even his detractors would admit that the is improving here) and WANTS to stay. We desperately need someone who will build a tradition here and not bolt for the masters flavor of the month. Until Brownell came, that’s all Clemson basketball had been for previous 20 or so years. Until Clemson gets serious about basketball (and, I think they very much have in the last few years) it will always be nothing more than something to pass the time and make a little money for the athletic department until Spring football starts.


Re: Did you say the program was awful when he took over


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 2:03 PM
 

"The third years were awful. They DID NOT leave the program in good shape. They just didn’t, and history proves it." - Why exactly is a coach's second and third year in the program so attributable to the previous coaching change in your opinion. Brownell inherited a starting line up of 2 seniors 2 juniors and 1 sophomore. Most first year coaches couldn't ask for a better nucleus for their program. And we'll never know how Devin Booker or Milton Jennings would have developed under Purnell, but on paper that was an extremely strong recruiting class that should have been an excellent foundation. It was Brownell's job, literally, to evaluate the talent on hand an recruit the player's he needed for his system. He owns the incoming classes of 2011 and 2012 completely. That he failed to do so is on him, not his predecessors. And again, Barnes started with what was called the worst team in ACC history? If your 2nd and 3rd year hypothesis were remotely true how exactly was he able to improve in each of those seasons? He was left with nothing. Purnell didn't inherit much better. He had Sharrod Ford but not much else. By year two the only other senior on the team had been relegated to the bench. Purnell brought in 6 freshmen in the 2nd class. Two became immediate contributors and James Mays would eventually become a strong player. This idea that what happens in year two and three is dictated by the previous is demonstrably false.

The rest of your post basically says we've never been consistently good so we should be happy with being consistently not terrible. Twice since 1998 Clemson has had an elevated basketball program that could have made aggressive moves to push the program forward. On paper, Shyatt was the right hire but was obviously a disaster. Purnell restored the program to national respectability. His leaving left a golden opportunity to move the program forward but instead we went with arguably the 3rd best coach in the Horizon conference at that time. He's had ten years. If your idea of building a tradition is a 20% NCAA appearance rate each decade you can keep it.

Finally you are attributing motive to Brownell that you can't possibly know. But what I do know is that he is handsomely compensated for his work. Why would he want to leave? There are 347 D1 basketball programs. He's being paid 29th. That's the top 8%. Do you really believe his work is in the top 8% of D1 programs? If not, then why would he possibly be looking to leave. He may very well love Clemson but he there absolutely no one, anywhere, looking to offer Coach Brownell a job remotely close to what he is making.

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Re: Did you say the program was awful when he took over


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 6:13 PM
 

We will just have to agree to disagree, sir. If the 2011 and 2012 classes were totally his, what did they do? The 11 class won 23 games their Junior years. The 12 class didn’t see the Tournament, but the 13 class made the Sweet 16. If you think someone else can build Clemson basketball into some respectable basketball power, you just keep holding your breath. I’ve been holding mine for about 32 years, and I ain’t seen it yet. Look, your postulation that Brownell can’t do it may very well be true, and you seem to think that someone can just come in and build Clemson into a title contender in four years. Well, that might happen, but I’ll go with the history I’ve seen and say I wouldn’t bet on it. I have nothing more to add than what I’ve already said, so I will withdraw myself from this discussion. Hopefully, the basketball team will be great one day. You have a lovely day.


Re: Did you say the program was awful when he took over


Posted: Dec 8, 2019 12:53 PM
 

Ummm. Not sure who or what we’re talking about anymore. Brownell, in 2011-12, his second year won 16 games. In 2012-13 he won 13 games. He made the previously non-existent play-in game to the NCAA tournament in 2010-11. He would not return until 2017-18.

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you know, I think Brad is a good X&O guy


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:04 AM
 

but in year ten the flaws outweigh the pros. Great guy, seems to run a clean program. Talent is an issue and it always has been. We are finally seeing an uptick in recruiting in year 10.. not sure what to make of that.. are we talented enough to compete in the ACC? NO.

We seem to lose a lot of close games. It's frustrating and holding back our program. If we won all those close games it would make a huge impact to our program and recruiting... In my opinion, what is the key to winning those close games? Coaching. Talent would help, talent acquisition falls on the coach too.

I say give him another year or two with the improved recruiting classes and see if we hit some type of tipping point in our talent level. I don't really care if we are contenders in basketball but it would be a lot of fun to watch. I have gotten more Clemson sports glory than I ever expected in my lifetime because of Dabo. Those other sports are cool but football will always be my #1 love by a WIDE margin.

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"seems to run a clean program"

[3]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:31 AM
 

except for that one time when his assistant got caught in a cheating scandal by FBI wiretap.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


That’s why I used word “seem”

[1]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 12:20 PM
 

In basketball, if you aren’t on an FBI wiretap are you even trying to win? ??

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Wow, what a low blow.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 3:22 PM
 

Way to support Clemson!

Your true colors are showing (as if there were any doubt).

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


The truth is not a low blow. What I said is accurate.

[2]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 4:12 PM
 

I support Clemson plenty, in multiple ways. My true colors are orange and purple. But the truth is the truth, and if you disagree then that's a "you" problem.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: The truth is not a low blow. What I said is accurate.

[2]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 4:26 PM
 



2020 purple level member

If pigs are so smart, why do 66% of them use weak and inferior materials during construction?


Who is that in your profile picture?


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:30 PM
 

Allen Iverson with a Cat in the Hat getup?

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


I don't recall you answering the question I posed


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:29 PM
 

in my original post.

Were you aware that we only had 8 scholarship players available against Minnesota?

And a follow-up question:

Do you think those injuries could've affected the outcome?

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Well, the truth is that we have a very young team this year


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:32 PM
 

and we only had 8 scholarship players available against Minnesota. If you disagree, that’s a “you” problem.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: It isn't an excuse, it's reality.

[2]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:42 PM
 

Unless you are Alabama trying to claim that your players were too tired, excuses tend to be based on reality. Those things are not mutually exclusive. If I fail a class because I got sick and didn't study, it can be my excuse and my reality, but the teacher would still expect me to be able to overcome the common cold and pass.

As for the football team having injuries, South Carolina averaged 6.3 missing players (28.6%) per game and I haven't heard one coot mention that is why they lost to Clemson or Texas A&M and it's because the games were not close. They weren't just missing a higher rate of return on production from some players. They were embarrassed by a better team. Alabama on the other hand was down 8 starters from its team in August and was still able to be competitive against a 8-3 #15 Auburn team at Jordan-Hare. Injures are a material and justification for them because they just needed slightly better QB play and better linebackers and they win.

But... we lost by 18 to a team with a losing record in December. That is the reality. They were a 3-4 team and we lost by 18. Even if those incremental production increases make us competitive with Minnesota, it would not be enough to make us competitive nationally.

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

I don't think we are 18 points worse than Minnesota.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:25 PM
 

But we certainly were the other night. I'm not debating that.

I don't know if our injuries would've made up the difference the other night or not, but I felt that the injuries were worth mentioning since I have seen a lot of people whining about what a bad loss it was but no mention of the circumstances.

Interestingly, despite all of the reactions my post has gotten, almost no one has answered my question as to whether or not they knew we had so many injuries.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: Just out of curiosity...

[2]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 12:57 PM
 

Thanks. I didn’t realize it was only 8.

2020 white level member

Re: Just out of curiosity...

[3]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 12:59 PM
 

Who on here thinks we will ever be good at Men's BB? Asking for a friend.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

tell your friend that I, MyfavOrange, believes we will have

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 3:08 PM
 

good years and bad years. More bad than good.

2020 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

It doesn't have to be that way

[3]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:17 PM
 

There is no reason why we can't have more good years than bad. There is also no excuse for it, but Lord knows Karen will still try to make them.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: It doesn't have to be that way

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:23 PM
 

Agree. One bad year, two bad years, three bad years, on and on is no excuse

2020 purple level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

What’s funny is that I’ve posted many times that


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 3:29 PM
 

I feel we should have the goal of making the NCAAs every year in basketball.

I just disagree with many of you as to the reasons why that isn’t happening (and hasn’t ever happened in our history with any consistency).

We FINALLY have some semblance of a relatively well-supported program in terms of facilities, coaching staff, and support staff. We have clearly seen improvement in wins, postseason play, and recruiting the last few years. Fans who are eager to see our basketball program do well should be excited about these things.

Why aren’t you and the rest of your gal pals more excited about what is happening?

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


I struggle to see the "funny" part. I was saying

[1]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 4:16 PM
 

you make excuses for Brownell's failures. I didn't get excited about Dabo losing to the coots 5 years in a row, I didn't get excited about going from the Sweet 16 two years ago to an early NIT exit last year, and I'm sure as #### not excited about losing to a crappy team like Minnesota.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


No one was excited about losing to Minnesota.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:33 PM
 

I can guarantee you the loss to Minnesota bothered me more than it bothered you.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: Just out of curiosity...

emoji_events [9]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:07 PM
 



2020 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Aspiring member of the TigerNet Sewer Dwellers


Re: Just out of curiosity...

[4]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:11 PM
 

Yep I know that. I had very little in expectations for this team though. Problem is there is always some issue or excuse. Programs manage to win and power through those. We dont. Close but no cigar should be our slogan

badge-donor-05yr.jpg

“A year filled with challenges” Part 10***

emoji_events [13]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:12 PM
 



2020 white level member

Re: Just out of curiosity...

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:21 PM
 

There is some kind of excuse every year for this guy. beginning to think maybe Ray Tanner hired Brad!


Re: Just out of curiosity...

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:22 PM
 

I knew we only had 8, but wondered who was out besides Hunter. Thanks for the info.


Re: Just out of curiosity...

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:41 PM
 

To recap:

Excuse
Excuse
Excuse
Excuse
Excuse
Excuse

Rinse and repeat, for 10 years.

This post is the same as all your other posts.

TYIA for the TD.


In other news, Cliff Ellis is #17 in all time coaching

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:42 PM
 

victories now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_men%27s_basketball_coaches_with_600_wins



Also, later this year, Cliff Ellis will be #2 in wins in Clemson basketball history.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:35 PM
 

Behind Brad Brownell.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


At this point CBB probably wishes you’d stop defending him.

emoji_events [8]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:46 PM
 

Your defense of him has been much more damaging to his career than his W-L record.




2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


His W-L record isn’t damaging to his career.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:39 PM
 

He’s won everywhere he has coached, and will soon be our all time winningest men’s basketball coach.

Posts on a message board can’t possibly outweigh that - not even your critical ones.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Wait, did you just say his W-L record isn’t damaging his career?


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 9:06 AM
 

Lol. Then why is he on the hot seat?

Tommy Bowden could have used an AD like you.

Also, please provide a link to where I’ve ever been critical of CBB. Looks like you’re making up stuff again?




2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


We should be able to make the tourney every 3-4 years

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:48 PM
 

That's not too much to ask, even with the weaknesses with our program and the headwinds we face as a football school in a basketball conference. A TENTH year coach should be making the tournament at a minimum every third year. I'm willing to chalk up a year here and there to being snakebitten/just not our year. As GWP said, with Brad this has become the rule rather than the exception.

Message was edited by: CTiger423®

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg


I think we’re still hurting from the early departure

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:33 PM
 

of KJ McDaniels.

2020 white level member

By your standards, you shouldn’t be disappointed.


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 4:57 PM
 

We were in the NCAA Tournament in 2018, so that was well within the last 3-4 years.

We were close to making it last year. The young talent on our current roster as well as incoming talent in 2020 suggests that your goal won’t be hard to achieve.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


2 times in 9 years =/= every 3-4 years***

[3]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 5:07 PM
 



2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


It’s too bad you can’t view Brad’s tenure in context


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 3:37 PM
 

The early part of his tenure involved recovering from Purnell’s recruiting misses and improving some significant behind the scenes issues within the program. He played in an outdated arena, and worse, had practice and weight facilities that were pathetic. The university invested in those facilities and we have seen wins and recruiting improve as a result.

Only someone bent on discounting these recent accomplishments would bring up stats like you do.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


I'm not discounting anything, I was just helping you

[2]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 4:32 PM
 

with the math. I think the Sweet 16 run was great. I think having a top 30 recruiting class is great. Those are both huge advances and shows a lot of progress. I have said so numerous times. And if Brad makes a tournament run this year, or next year, or anytime as our head coach, I will be ecstatic. But I want to see it be more than just twice every 9 or 10 years. Your problem is you automatically attack anyone who isn't satisfied with our current results and you're getting increasingly arrogant about it. In this thread you have gone so far as to assume that anyone disagreeing with you doesn't watch the games and doesn't know what our roster looks like. And because of that, you can take your blind love of Brad Brownell and shove off. If you want to have a civil discussion one day that isn't arrogant like your original post, then let's do it. But I don't think you have that in you.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Wow, look at yourself!


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:45 PM
 

1. "Your problem is you automatically attack anyone who isn't satisfied with our current results and you're getting increasingly arrogant about it."

It's hilarious that you view my posts as "attacking, " yet you and your pals are the ones who call me a woman, and respond to many of my posts with sarcastic responses, childish gifs, and insults.

2. "In this thread you have gone so far as to assume that anyone disagreeing with you doesn't watch the games and doesn't know what our roster looks like."

In my original post, I asked a question: who here was aware that we only had 8 scholarship players available against Minnesota. All that required was a simple yes or no answer. Interestingly, after many responses, only a couple of people have actually answered my question.

All you had to do was respond with a yes or no.

3. "And because of that, you can take your blind love of Brad Brownell and shove off."

I don't have a blind love of Brad. I think he's a very good coach who has had to endure a lot of crap at Clemson for various reasons, and has only recently been given a real chance to show what he can do as our head coach. But I certainly acknowledge his shortcomings. He isn't perfect and I've never claimed he is.

Also, you accused me of being arrogant, but I've never told anyone here to "shove off." Well done.

4. "If you want to have a civil discussion one day that isn't arrogant like your original post, then let's do it. But I don't think you have that in you."

All I'm after is a civil discussion regarding basketball. I've had many of those discussions here. However, you and a few others don't like what I have to say, so you attack me and do your best to orchestrate criticisms of me. I don't think you are capable of having a civil discussion about basketball. Interestingly, I've started a lot of threads here asking people's thoughts and opinions, and rarely get responses to the actual topic at hand. In fact, you have been conspicuously absent in many of them. You don't seem eager to have a civil discussion with me or anyone else here. The perception I get is that you just want to argue, criticize, and be sarcastic - with me and with most everyone else here. I hope I'm wrong.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: Wow, look at yourself!


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:47 PM
 

“I don't have a blind love of Brad. I think he's a very good coach who has had to endure a lot of crap at Clemson for various reasons, and has only recently been given a real chance to show what he can do as our head coach.”

I can’t even with this nonsense. Brad Brownell is paid, handsomely, to be the coach of Clemson basketball. If his tenure ends this season he will have made somewhere between $15-20 million for his time at Clemson. That is generational wealth. No future descendant of Brad Brownell ever need work again if that money is even modestly managed. His current contract compensates him in the top 30 of active college basketball coaches - a status completely unwarranted by his body of work. For that kind of money, whatever “crap” you are referring to is very much his to navigate. I’ve asked before, whose responsibility is recruiting and roster management - since clearly you don’t believe that it falls to Coach Brownell. Otherwise, you would realize that constantly pointing how young and hampered by injuries we are is also a reflection on his job as a coach. The job isn’t just about X and Os for which he seems to also have a very overblown reputation.

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

When have I ever said that recruiting and roster management aren’t Brad’s responsibility?


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 12:29 AM
 

They absolutely are. I’m not sure why you are trying to create controversy regarding this point, other than because you have a problem with me.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: When have I ever said that recruiting and roster management aren’t Brad’s responsibility?


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 1:28 AM
 

Because you constantly offer up roster issues as reasons that the fan base needs to be more patient with Coach Brownell. Which would seem to imply that you believe these things to be beyond the reasonable scope of his job. Otherwise, why are you offering them as explanations for why we shouldn’t be frustrated with his performance as head coach? And you’ve ignored that specific question in the past.

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

Do you put words into everyone's mouth, or just mine?


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 2:57 PM
 

I don't "constantly" offer up roster issues as reasons the fan base needs to be more patient with Coach Brownell. I haven't asked for patience of any kind from our fans this year, except in my original post in this thread. I asked for people to show our young team some grace, as they are young and also dealing with notable injuries.

None of my comments are intended to start a debate about Brad being our coach. That should wait until after the season, when we actually have a season's worth of data to go on (unlike the knee jerk responses from people like you, who can't even wait until the halfway point to declare that our coach, players, and program aren't any good).

The FACTS are:

1. We are a young team this year.
2. We are counting on new people to step up this year, due to losing a lot of production from last year.
3. Injuries have put even more pressure on our young team.

If you want to disagree with any of those facts, you are welcome to try - but they are the facts.

My intention when pointing out these facts is to simply remind people that this year is likely to have its ups and downs. It isn't intended to defend our coaches, or provide my own personal commentary regarding whether I think this is where I think we should be at this point in time. It's merely to remind fans who are aware, as well as educate those who aren't, that we are a young team with injuries and have some challenges right now as a result.

If you want to talk about how upset you are about various facets of our program, I recommend you start your own thread. This thread wasn't intended to be the place for that.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Why do you keep saying no one answered your question...


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 9:02 AM
 

The very first response answered it. Literally, the very first one.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


It didn't answer the question at all.


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 3:05 PM
 

GWPTiger's response was:

"Liste­n lady, I'm going to guess that almost everyone, if not everyone, knew that. But here we are, 10 years into the CBB experience and we're being asked to show him some grace or cut him some slack? JFC, I'm not doing it. We lost to a $#!tty team, that's the fact. And you're a couple days too late to make excuses for that loss."

GWPTiger didn't say whether he/she knew about the injuries. A simple yes or no would've sufficed.

Moreover, he/she gave an opinion about how many other people knew about the injuries. Not very helpful, since GWPTiger doesn't speak for or represent everyone here.

GWPTiger's response not only failed to answer the question, but it also delved into personal attacks, profanity, and accusations that my post was insinuating things that it was not.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


You want a “yes/no” answer?

[2]
Posted: Dec 7, 2019 6:27 PM
 

Ask a yes/no question.

JK: “ How many of you were aware that we only had 8 scholarship players available against Minnesota?”

If you asked the question and can’t figure out how to correctly answer, how do you expect anyone else to understand how to answer? Not sure how yes/no answers that question.

JK: “How many of you were aware...”
GWP: “ I'm going to guess that almost everyone, if not everyone, knew that.”

That is a perfectly acceptable answer to your question, “yes/no” is not.




2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: By your standards, you shouldn’t be disappointed.

[1]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:32 AM
 

Close don’t count because that means you were not there.....what the crap.....Go Tigers!!!!!!


After this year, it will be twice in 10 years, one with OP's players

[1]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:53 AM
 

For a new coach doing a total rebuild, I would set the goal of making it in year 3-4. But if we are going to keep a guy around for 10 years the FLOOR should be the tournament every three years. And in the other two, we better be competitive and at LEAST 8-10 in the ACC. Also, we should be making a run in the NIT and/or dang close to making the tournament in one of the two off years. I don't think any of this is too much to ask for a TENTH year Clemson b-ball coach.

My posts are not criticism of you, as I wish I still shared your upbeat outlook about the program. But I'm just done at this point.

Message was edited by: CTiger423®

2020 white level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg


If you tuned in to the broadcast, it was mentioned every 5

emoji_events [6]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:49 PM
 

minutes


I would be shocked if most people posting here


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 3:38 PM
 

watched at all.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


^^^There's that Judge Karen "I want to speak with your

[1]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 4:24 PM
 

manager" attitude!

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Classy.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:48 PM
 

I obviously pushed a button of yours.

Did you know we only had 8 scholarship players available against Minnesota or not?

Did you watch our game against Minnesota or not?

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Did you read the 1st reply in your thread?....***


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:53 PM
 



2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


Yes, and GWPTiger did not answer yes or no.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:45 PM
 

Instead, he resorted to name calling and other personal attacks. Yet he later stated that I’m arrogant, condescending, and not interested in having a real discussion. LOL.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: Just out of curiosity...

[2]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:54 PM
 

People just want something to complain about. Per the haters, the Clemson basketball program should still win the majority of games even with 3 starters injured.

News Flash: The majority of college basketball teams wouldn't be successful w/ 3 injured starters. If you expect us to win w/ 3 injured starters, then I'm assuming that you expect us to be top 15 with all of our starters?

From what I saw, Minnesota is not a crappy team. They may not be a great team, but they certainly had some talented players.


They have been crappy so far this season

emoji_events [5]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:07 PM
 

They've lost to Oklahoma, Butler, Utah and Depaul. Before Clemson, their wins were against Southwest Minnesota State, Cleveland State, Central Michigan and North Dakota.

After beating Colgate, the consensus #1 team in the country at the time, I expected more against Minnesota. We lost by 18 points, and truthfully...it never felt as close as the score represented.

2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-10yr.jpg

"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Glad we lost to a “not crappy” team. Is that quadrant 3 or 4?***

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 3:54 PM
 



2020 white level member

We dont have 3 injured starters

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 6:11 PM
 

Simms, Mack, Newman and Dawes are starting regardless


Jk towards cbb

emoji_events [7]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 1:55 PM
 



jk towards fans who question cbb



2020 orange level memberbadge-donor-05yr.jpg

"Clemson has been historically better than Carolina. That's pretty obvious." - Classof09

"No one knew we were overhyped until the season started." - Classof09


People have every right to question Brad


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:49 PM
 

Or any of our coaches for that matter (even - gasp! - our football coaches).

I question him regularly, during points in every game.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: Just out of curiosity...

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:13 PM
 

So according to this we actually only have 10 players period when Chase and Alex are healthy!
Young team, or not, it seems to me the writing is on the wall. I suspect anything less than the NIT
2nd round might be the end of Brad's tenure.


Making the NIT this year will be a success

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 6:15 PM
 

with this roster. We are young, have little size, and right now no depth. Hopefully Baehre and Hunter are back Sunday to help the depth.

But our most talented players are freshmen and sophomores who are going to take their lumps.


Brownell performs best when his ### is on the line.

[3]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:41 PM
 

As a fan I'm fed up with that. Our most successful seasons have all been hot seat years, other than his first season when he was coaching to prove he belonged. Following extensions and buyout increases that have followed those few successful occasions, he, and the team, falls flat. I attribute our summer success to his being in Dabo's doghouse for the tainting of the football program via Brad's assistant coaching problem over this spring.

What little left there is of a basketball following is slipping further away. At least you'll have access to the best seats through your unending support. So there's that.

Go Tigers.

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I completely disagree with just about everything you posted.


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:54 PM
 

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like you think Brad tries harder certain years and slacks off other years. If you feel that way, that’s a bold accusation. What is that belief based on?

Also, if you think Brad was somehow made to try harder because Dabo was upset with him, you really don’t understand the dynamic within our athletic department or the relationship that Brad and Dabo have. There is a mutual respect between them, Dabo wasn’t mad at Brad, and even if he were, it wouldn’t somehow make Brad try harder. That’s one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read on here.

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Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


The most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read on here was...


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 9:24 AM
 

that time you said W-L record isn’t damaging CBB’s career. You’re smarter than that.




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"I've played multiple sports and would bet any amount that I'm still more athletic than you at this present time...."


Re: Just out of curiosity...

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 2:52 PM
 

In the 10th season, the coach should be managing his roster better than that.

He is stung by injuries and ineligible transfers because his recruiting is not good.

and the player development has not been good recently either.

In the past, he took what I felt were mediocre players and developed them to contribute by their Junior and Senior years.

Recently, many of the players have not improved year to year which means we aren't getting the performance bump and occasional NCAA bid that should occur when a decent class becomes upper classmen.


Message was edited by: castaway®


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I was aware. (Still am, as a matter of fact...)***

[1]
Posted: Dec 5, 2019 4:02 PM
 



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Re: Just out of curiosity...


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 6:15 PM
 

Gosh. You starting to sound like Will muschamp.
Cone on man. You are better than this. We are very much average in the ACC basketball world just like coots are average in sec football. I don’t see things changing or improving.


Just out of curiosity...


Posted: Dec 5, 2019 6:25 PM
 

If we dont make any postseason this year, will you consider the season a success or failure? Year 10.


If we don't at least make the NIT, I will consider it


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:54 PM
 

a disappointing season. Just as I considered last year a disappointing season since we didn't make the NCAAs.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: Just out of curiosity...

[1]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:26 AM
 

Enough with all the excuses.......10 years and you have used up your limit on them.......just win the frigging games ......especially against sorry teams like Minnesota.......I don’t think that is asking to much of BB......get the job done man because enough is enough......Go Tigers!!!!


Wow I guess we are the onlty team suffering with injured pla

[1]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 10:55 AM
 

ers. Thanks JK. That makes up for everything because we only hear that same excuse from BB every year.

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Re: Just out of curiosity...

[1]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 12:36 PM
 

Are we treating CBB like he is the Jason Garrett of college Basketball? What has he done too deserve this tenure?
When he does depart, he will not be able to say he didn’t receive a fair shot. I believe the kids say...Facts.


No, Jason Garrett has made the playoffs

[1]
Posted: Dec 6, 2019 1:35 PM
 

3 times in 8 years. Brad has only made the tournament twice in 9 years.

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"IDIOT POSTER OF THE MONTH SO FAR...GWP-- You have won IPM Award for your failure to completely comprehend a clear post & then choose to attack someone who points out your ignorance. While you are not yet in the same No Class Catagory as deRoberts, ClemTiger117 & Tigerdug23, you are getting closer to the Sewer Dwellers." - coachmac


Re: Just out of curiosity...


Posted: Dec 6, 2019 11:23 PM
 



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Re: Just out of curiosity...

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2019 7:54 AM
 

I admire your resolve. I was aware of Trapp and Baehre. I am admittedly a casual fan especially this time of the year. I will catch a little over Christmas while it is not much going on, might catch the game in Chapel Hill on January 12th although I will probably be more concerned with logistics for New Orleans, and will begin most of my interest the following week after football.

I know that many of the true basketball fans consider me part of the problem, but for the most part people like me are an unfortunate fact of life around Clemson. Another unfortunate truth is that you are going to have to listen to a lot of people complain about Coach Brownell, because their minds are made up and this team in its current state is not talented enough to change it. I don't mean it as a knock, but between youth in the back court and the injuries that you mentioned we are going to have struggles this year.

I thought and still think that we should have found a new coach after last year. That being said, we knew this year would probably be rough and at this point I don't think we should talk about changing coaches until the end of next year. Between the young guards this year and the big men coming in next year, I believe the talent level will be better at that time and I hope that Coach Brownell proves me wrong with what he can do with it.

I am actually encouraged by how it appears to me that we have played so far this year. I say appears because I have seen nothing live as of yet, and just checked out recaps of the games. There seems to have been some flashes and I didn't expect to have consistency considering what we lost last year. I also think that Coach Brownell is better at making a little something out of nothing than he is at getting the most out of the young men when he has a little more talent.

Good luck, Judge. You have your work cut out for you, and you seem to attack it head on. I am not sure if that is a good thing or if you may need to have concern for CTE but I admire your enthusiasm. You will have my support in a month and a half, and you can count on my support until March 2021 barring off the court issues. It doesn't mean much, but I will be along for the ride even if it is a little bumpy.


Re: Just out of curiosity...


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 9:14 AM
 

I agree with you but that is no excuse to lose by 20 when our best players are not out with Trapp being the exception. We will hopefully bounce back but with Mack and Simms if we do not make the tourney this year it is a disappointment imo.


I agree, it isn’t an excuse for losing by 20.


Posted: Dec 7, 2019 1:06 PM
 

It wasn’t a good loss (none are, IMO). However, the details do matter and the loss shouldn’t have caused nearly the amount of complaining it did. That’s why I wondered how many people here were aware of those details.

2020 white level member

Brad Brownell: all-time winningest coach in Clemson men's basketball history, and only coach to beat North Carolina in Chapel Hill.


Re: Just out of curiosity...


Posted: Dec 8, 2019 5:29 PM
 

Whatever helps you sleep at night. Seriously, your constant defense of this program is heartwarming. We are at the point with this program, nothing surprises not nothing is expected. Total and understandable apathy has set in. Hate it for the kids.


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