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Replies: 19
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Scout Team [197]
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Academics influencing conference affiliation is ridiculous
May 14, 2012, 10:41 PM
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I keep reading that Clemson would never consider a move to the Big12 because of the Big12's poor academic ranking. That everyone knows the best schools are in the ACC. I can tell you for a fact that Clemson being in the ACC added no value to my degree when I interviewed with my current employer. The idea that somehow my degree looks better because Clemson beats up on Duke every few years in football and gets stomped by UNC every trip north in basketball is unbelievably stupid. The value comes from quality of education that I was provided and the values instilled in me by my professors.
What drives up a college's national ranking? Quality of programs, diversity of programs, number of students per instructor (lower is better, you want a lot of students and a low student instructor ratio = employ more instructors = more $), number of applicants, and even number of rejections. The fact is more kids are going to want to attend a school that is a nationally recognized brand. I know Clemson is supposed to be nationally recognizable, "The Paw says it all." All the sports people recognize is that we just let WVU score, again. All the rest recognizes is that we're at agricultural school with a decent engineering program.
Athletics can and should be a tool to improve a school’s ranking academically. It can do that by being nationally relevant in all sports. To be nationally relevant you have to win regularly (which we're getting back to) and you have to beat other relevant teams. That is where the ACC hurts us now, and that is where if OU and Texas leave for the PAC the Big12 will hurt us if we jump ship. The better the name brand of Clemson the more kids are going to want to attend, the higher we can raise our standards, the better students and academic prowess we will have.
Also, we were one of only 48 schools that turned a profit last year, and we weren't high on that list. Ignoring the TV deals for a second, Clemson has alumni with money, money they would gladly give if they felt that Clemson was being managed properly, right now many don't. If athletics improves, donations improve. When donations increase, facilities improve, when facilities improve athletic results follow. Look at Bama, they brought in over $31M in profit from their athletic program, not football, this is after paying the expenses of the other sports. Where do you think that money is/could be spent? Here's an idea, improving academic facilities. I know Riggs didn't have AC for any of the 4 years I was there. Academic Facilities improve and college rankings go up.
This isn't a push to jump to the Big12, this isn't a push to stay in the ACC, this is a wake up call that academic rankings have nothing to do with who you play in football, and everything to do with revenue generated by the school and the types of investment made towards self improvement. Sticking around with the likes of Wake and Duke will not raise our academic perception, at least not to the people in HR screening job applicants. Increased revenue into the school and improving our academic facilities will. Athletics can be a huge money maker if managed properly.
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Athletic Dir [864]
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Agree 100 percent
May 14, 2012, 10:52 PM
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Nm
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Orange Blooded [4359]
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CU Guru [1153]
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Re: Not according to FSU's prez...
May 15, 2012, 8:16 AM
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. The faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is academically weaker -- and in fact, many of them resent the fact that a 2% ($2.4M) deficit in the athletics budget receives so much attention from concerned Seminoles, but the loss of 25% of the academic budget (105M) gets none when it is the most critical concern of this University in terms of its successful future.
Sounds more like the faculty is mad that they had a bigger cut in funding than the athletic department. I don't think that would change if FSU bolted to another conference. The state legislature decides on the higher education funding. Sounds like jealousy rather than a reason not to switch conferences.
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Aficionado [158]
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FSU's prez is pandering to the faculty and academics....
May 15, 2012, 9:07 AM
[ in reply to Not according to FSU's prez... ] |
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...however FSU created an athletics advisory committee of prominant alumni and donors specifically because they didn't want the Prez or AD to make the decision. Clemson followed suit so that Barker would have some cover.
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Orange Blooded [2133]
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Academics does matter. Always has. Always will...
May 14, 2012, 11:33 PM
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I used to think like you do.
But conferences are an association of universities that share more than just athletic competition. They also are involved in research, professors and academic pursuits as a group. The fact that you're in a conference with...say, UVA...means you're more likely to collaborate with them on other things besides just showing up in Scott Stadium and playing a football game.
An analogy could be a church. I find that I'm more likely to do business with someone I meet in church, just because it's an association where I meet people, get to know people, and have an opportunity to work with them on various things. I'm in a church for spiritual reasons. But I'm also doing business there.
Or, take the workplace. You work with people wherever it is...your company, school, wherever you work, etc. But you might be more likely to be friends with people you work with, just because you're around them more.
These are the kinds of things that conferences deal with. It's not just a football game 12 Saturdays a year.
I think the idea that academics don't or shouldn't matter is just not true.
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CU Guru [1153]
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I've been thinking about all of this
May 15, 2012, 8:14 AM
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for quite a while over the past several days when all of the rumors of the Big XII starting to ramp up over the past week. I also thought about it a good deal last year when all of the SEC speculation started.
I do feel like conference affiliation does have an impact on our academics, but not to the extent that many are making it out to be. There are several good universities that are in the SEC and the Big XII.
I feel like the SEC is a better fit for Clemson than the Big XII. Schools such as Florida and Vanderbilt have not had an issue with their perceived academic reputation by being a part of the SEC. Clemson shares a lot in common with many of these schools, like Auburn and Texas A&M.
I am not as familiar with Big XII universities, but I don't see them as inferior schools. I don't see research grants and shared academic affiliations declining by affiliating with another athletic conference. I just don't see the value of a Clemson degree affected by who we play on the field.
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Hall of Famer [22965]
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I agree......and here's my reasoning.....
May 15, 2012, 8:19 AM
[ in reply to Academics does matter. Always has. Always will... ] |
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Universities and colleges are established for one reason and one reason only---education. They are academic institutions set up to improve the lives of the local community, state and nation.
Once athletics was accepted on campus, it should have become subject to the same academic rigors "normal" students are subjected to.
Now, we all know that since the beginning of college athletics, certain "allowances" were made to benefit the "student-athlete" who has additional responsibilities above and beyond the classroom. And I think reasonable people are willing to accept that up to a point. HOWEVER, academics must remain the primary focus of every university president charged with maintaining a multi-million dollar athletic department industry on campus.
To that end, I believe that like minded individuals (specifically-college presidents and administrators) prefer to associate with others of a similar mind--and the ACC has ALWAYS placed academics on the highest plateau-----well, at least until the ACC Commissioner's alma mater has come under scrutiny for academic fraud and the entire matter was, at least briefly, swept under the rug by the ACC's Panel on Infractions issuing nothing more than a "public reprimand" for those accusations of academic fraud rather than coming down hard on unc, demanding answers and retribution.
I've wandered a bit from the original topic, but suffice it to say, while the ACC is indeed an athletic conference, its an association of schools who want to maintain pretty high academic standards as well.
Sorry to proselytize
Message was edited by: tigrjm76®
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Orange Blooded [3221]
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Orange Blooded [2133]
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You missed my point completely...
May 15, 2012, 9:33 AM
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A school can be a quality school regardless of who it associates with in athletics. I never said that wasn't the case.
What I am saying is that athletics and academics are intertwined more than people think. The Big 10 is full of big research schools that are AAU members. They collaborate with each other on a lot of research-oriented things. The ACC is similar in that regard.
For people to say that Academics don't matter, they're ignoring reality.
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Orange Blooded [2761]
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I agree, but you're preaching to the choir here...
May 15, 2012, 7:09 AM
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Take it to Barker.
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All-Pro [698]
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Re: Academics influencing conference affiliation is ridiculous
May 15, 2012, 7:41 AM
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As long as you have Presidents involved, academic standing will be a criteria.
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Orange Blooded [2488]
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Finally, a well thought out post.
May 15, 2012, 7:52 AM
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It's refreshing to actually see an intelligent post once in a while.
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Orange Blooded [3221]
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Agree 100%
May 15, 2012, 8:29 AM
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Do you think there are Vanderbilt grads who don't get a job because of the SEC's poor academic record? Hell NO!
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MVP [520]
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Determining Conference Affliliation By Academics is....
May 15, 2012, 8:31 AM
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cultural liberal thinking at it's best. Not Good any way you slice it.
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CU Medallion [64693]
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Clemson's No. 1 priority ...
May 15, 2012, 9:00 AM
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should always be to educate and that includes its STUDENT-athletes.
Notice they're referred to as "STUDENT"-athletes and not athletic students.
That said, joining another league that does not place the same priority on academics as the ACC should not detract from Clemson's mission.
I firmly believe that it is entirely possible to be great both academically and athletically.
The conference has little bearing on the way academics are run at their member institutions.
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Aficionado [158]
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OP is correct.. facts are Clemson's academic success is...
May 15, 2012, 9:15 AM
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..tied to athletics. If Clemson athletics become 3rd tier, then Clemson will have a tough time recruiting the type of student it currently attracts. How many of you went to Clemson solely for the academics? There may be people that do come solely for academics but they don't post on Tigernet.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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Have you ever been in a President's box during a game?
May 15, 2012, 9:34 AM
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I have (at GT) and yes Academics matter very much even in the middle of an athletic competition.
I don't agree with the line of thinking and I can seperate athletics from academics. But it matters to Prsidents who view the atheletic department as a part of their school and not a semi-pro development ground.
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110%er [7980]
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I hear the Ivy league is about to disband***
May 15, 2012, 9:56 AM
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CU Medallion [64693]
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At the end of the day.....
May 15, 2012, 10:06 AM
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the Ivy League is simply the name of an athletic conference. It just so happens that the conference contains some of the nation’s premier academic universities.
As was stated in a article from earlier today, Harvard could certainly play in the Big East if it wanted to.
If it did, however, it would no longer be an Ivy League school in the true, but that would have absolutely ZERO impact on its academic standing.
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Replies: 19
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