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Replies: 31
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Legend [15223]
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Academics and athletic conferences are unrelated. Clemson
May 19, 2012, 2:07 PM
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will not lose students if we go to the Big 12. No student comes to Clemson because we are in the same conference as Duke or UVA.
There is no relationship there. Conference affiliation is purely an athletic affiliation.
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All-In [30593]
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No one has ever been able to explain this to me....
May 19, 2012, 2:11 PM
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Clemson has never gotten a research grant b/c they are in the ACC.
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Legend [15223]
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I hate it. Like the whole WVU thing. If the ACC would've
May 19, 2012, 2:17 PM
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added WVU back when they had a shot then we may not be having this convo...
The whole academic issue is just an excuse fabricated on message boards IMO. It cannot be real.
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Oculus Spirit [94275]
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...and yet I used that as a prime reason to stay put...
May 19, 2012, 2:13 PM
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just two weeks ago. Strange how two weeks, six or eight million dollars and a shot at the playoff can change a man's opinion.
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Orange Blooded [2761]
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You believe that, I believe that. Barker does not.***
May 19, 2012, 2:29 PM
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All-In [30934]
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yes and no.. It is true what you posted, but
May 19, 2012, 2:37 PM
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Some conferneces are more dedicated to the education of their STUDENT athletes. Most, if not all, schools and conferences have academic standards and review boards. Yet, many schools in other conferences find ways to admit kids who can barely speak English.
I can only speak for myself but i do not want the academic integrity of my school diminished at as the price for more foozeball wins.
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Legend [15223]
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Yes like UNC's wonderful student athletes.***
Aug 21, 2012, 7:10 PM
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All-In [30934]
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You mean the UNC that just got in TROUBLE? That
May 19, 2012, 2:57 PM
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UNC? IF so, then yes.. JUST like that. That is why i feel UNC should have been punished more severely for committing academic fraud. It is one thing to cheat to get a kid in your school over another school. But once they are in, they are students at your academic institution.
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Oculus Spirit [94275]
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CU Guru [1071]
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You are wrong, but so are those who believe it is a primary
May 19, 2012, 2:40 PM
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factor. Athletic conference affiliations do affect how schools are perceived academically. College presidents and faculties are very aware of the phenomenon. The clearest example I can provide is the Ivy League which was formed first and foremost as an athletic conference. At the time, the Big 3 (Harvard, Yale and Princeton) were the three best universities in the country and three of the best in the world but the other five were simply fairly strong eastern schools that did not have much of a national reputation at all. Nobody considered Dartmouth or Brown or Cornell or Penn among the top 10 or even 20 schools in the country at the time they joined an athletic conference with the Big 3. Now, they do. Don't get me wrong - those schools have done a lot of things to elevate themselves to national prominence but being associated with Harvard, Yale and Princeton on he athletic fields helped tremendously along the way.
Even on the level of big-time athletics, you still cannot say that academics is not one of many factors. Academic reputation is why West Virginia was turned down not only by the ACC, but by the SEC as well. It is why the Chancellor of UT-Austin wanted to bolt the Big 12 for the PAC 12. It is why USuC was denied re-entry into the ACC. It is why Louisville cannot find a new home.
Money is the primary factor by a mile, but academics matters to everyone along the margins, and matters greatly to many schools (but rarely more than money does).
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CU Guru [1201]
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Re: You are wrong, but so are those who believe it is a primary
May 19, 2012, 2:44 PM
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Are you sure that's true about the Ivy League? I was pretty sure the Ivy League was 8 top schools that formed an athletic conference, not 3 top schools and 5 who benefited from associating with the 3.
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CU Guru [1071]
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When the Ivy League was formed in 1954, Cornell and
May 19, 2012, 3:05 PM
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Dartmouth were very strong regional schools with little national reputation. Penn and Brown were better known but nowhere near the Big 3 in academic reputation. Columbia had the strongest academic reputation outside of the Big 3. Being aligned athletically as the Ivy League for the past 60 years has helped the reputation of all eight.
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All-In [30593]
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not doubting what you say... but sitll no one can explain to
May 19, 2012, 2:47 PM
[ in reply to You are wrong, but so are those who believe it is a primary ] |
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me WHY THIS IS???
Show me documented proof that your conference affiliation affects academics. Does it sound good? Absolutley.
But no one gets recognized or grants b/c of thier conference. Each school has it's own academic reputation.
You are right about the PERCEPTION... but I want someone to show me where it has made a difference for a school somewhere.
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CU Guru [1071]
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You lost me when you said I was right about the perception..
May 19, 2012, 3:00 PM
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Perception IS reality. How something is perceived is how it exists. Now, if you can change how something is perceived, you have changed its existence.
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Rock Defender [54]
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The Ivy League is unique, Texas, Michigan, UVa, and UNC
May 19, 2012, 6:37 PM
[ in reply to You are wrong, but so are those who believe it is a primary ] |
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are among the top handful of public universities, yet none are in the Ivy League, and they are in 3 different athletic conferences.
YES, among professors, college presidents, and some academic elite snobs, athletic conference affiliation is a factor, but for the overwhelming majority of fans, alumni, corporations and government agencies giving out grants, TV networks, and prospective students, it is absolutely meaningless.
Vandy nor Stanford are harmed by not being in the Ivy League, neither is Duke. Florida and Georgia are ranked higher in US News despite being in the SEC.
I's only a perception issue for snobs and academic elites, or those looking for an excuse of some sort.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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are the acc admission requirements for D1 sports higher than
May 19, 2012, 2:44 PM
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the nc2a's minimums?
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All-In [30593]
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probably... but that doesn't answer the question, IMO...
May 19, 2012, 2:49 PM
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"We're better academically b/c the ACC doesn't let everyone in."???
That doesn't make sense.
What is it about schools, with currently enrolled students, that makes them better academically b/c of their conference?
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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how can you say they are unrelated if the acc has higher
May 19, 2012, 2:58 PM
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admissions requirements that the rest of the nc2a D1 conferences?
you might say the acc is shooting themselves in the foot, but to say they are unrelated?
that's a little bit silly york.
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All-In [30593]
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higher standards to get in... yes.... but that still doesn't
May 19, 2012, 3:01 PM
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make sense, IMO...
you're saying... "we're better academically b/c our conference has higher admission standards for athletes"
What about regular students?? Admission standards vary by school there...
So where does the idea that being in the ACC helps Clemson academically come from? Like I said, how many "things" have we gotten for academics b/c of our conference affiliation?
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CU Guru [1895]
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Its about schools with similar goals.
May 19, 2012, 3:12 PM
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Its a big reason the ACC has stayed together for 60 years.
Outside of the recent issues at UNC, ACC schools are not willing to sell their souls for football wins. Its the same in the B1G where there are very strict rules against oversigning.
Schools in the SEC and Big XII have always had a win at all cost mentality and are much more willing to find loopholes and bend rules.
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Addict [400]
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No, and that's what some seem to either not get
May 19, 2012, 3:00 PM
[ in reply to are the acc admission requirements for D1 sports higher than ] |
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or won't admit. Higher academic requirements are just an excuse for losing. If Clemson's requirements for athletes are so high, how did Bellamy get in only to fail to meet NCAA requirements 1 year later. If an athlete can get in at Carolina, he can get in at Clemson. Keep using that crutch if you like, but it just ain't true.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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the streets are littered with usuck students that only dream
May 19, 2012, 3:02 PM
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of getting in clemson crutch boy.
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Addict [400]
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I thought we were talking about athletes
May 19, 2012, 3:07 PM
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the only reason Carolina has a SLIGHTLY lower average GPA for the student body as a whole is because they have 50% more students. If you compared the top 17000 at Carolina, a number that matches Clemson's enrollment, their GPA would be higher than Clemson's. Does Clemson produce any Doctors or Lawyers?
Message was edited by: Bookmaker03®
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All-In [30593]
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nothing about conference and academics make any sense***
May 19, 2012, 3:08 PM
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Oculus Spirit [94275]
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I'm ready to send all my grandchildren to USuCk.
May 19, 2012, 3:19 PM
[ in reply to I thought we were talking about athletes ] |
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No wait, if South Carolina got an enema Columbia is where they would stick the hose and USuCk is the bullseye they for which they would aim.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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if you have a problem with the numbers that bring down your
May 19, 2012, 3:33 PM
[ in reply to I thought we were talking about athletes ] |
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overall, i'd take that up with your admissions, not me.
new math allow you to throw out your lower % and not cu's? and i thought you had to treat both sides of the equation equally?
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Legend [16174]
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DSP...you should be familiar with SEC math by now...Throw
May 19, 2012, 3:37 PM
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out our highest and their lowest...see...equal...
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Addict [400]
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You must have some reading comprehension issues
May 19, 2012, 3:43 PM
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I didn't say anything about throwing out any of your numbers. You didn't answer the question about how many doctors or lawyers graduate from Clemson.
Message was edited by: Bookmaker03®
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Legend [16174]
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I have comprehension issues? You never asked me about Drs
May 19, 2012, 4:18 PM
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or lawyers(and bragging about graduating MORE liars er lawyers is like bragging about graduating rapists) and the fact that you threw out SCU's lowest and nothing from Clemson was THE POINT...That is why DSP made the observation about treating both sides of the equation EQUAL...
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CU Guru [1071]
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Clemson sends more grads to USC Law School
May 19, 2012, 4:02 PM
[ in reply to I thought we were talking about athletes ] |
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USC does and more grads to MUSC than USC does - now USC sends more to the USC Med School but that place is a joke ... Would not let a USC med grad cut on me!
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All-TigerNet [11024]
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I agree on the student part..However University Presidents
May 19, 2012, 3:18 PM
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and BOT like to associate with other top notch schools. Not liking it does not mean it's not so.
Good Grief give this a rest.
Message was edited by: milerock®
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CU Guru [1105]
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You're Wrong
May 19, 2012, 3:39 PM
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The schools in the conference do share research and work together on academic projects.
And as a NC resident, the fact that CU is in the ACC certainly played a part in me picking Clemson. I wouldn't have gone to Clemson if it was in the Big 12 or CUSA.
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Replies: 31
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