|
Replies: 23
| visibility 1
|
CU Medallion [58424]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46327
Joined: 4/23/00
|
Which is the bigger/biggest, most pressing problem
Sep 27, 2022, 7:40 PM
|
|
problem in America today?:
(A) Bad cops and unfairness and corruption in the criminal justice system in general.... OR
(B) Violent criminal activity by people who have no respect for police, our laws, or any kind of authority, much less fellow Americans.
Both are bad. Both are wrong and neither is acceptable on any level. BUT - if you could put and end to one tommorrow, and had to wait one year to end the other, which would you end first?
|
|
|
|
 |
Orange Blooded [2638]
TigerPulse: 58%
Posts: 2707
Joined: 5/28/02
|
Re: Which is the bigger/biggest, most pressing problem
Sep 27, 2022, 8:07 PM
|
|
Considering your demographic, B will be the most popular answer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Heisman Winner [111630]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 73776
Joined: 9/10/03
|
B of course
Sep 27, 2022, 8:13 PM
|
|
getting rid of B would probably take a lot away from A. Cops have shiddy jobs and have to deal with the worst elements. If B were completely gone, they would probably not be so trigger-happy and could go about their way writing traffic citations without constant fear of a bad encounter.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [44050]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 32967
Joined: 2/22/03
|
Yes, this.***
Sep 28, 2022, 12:12 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Orange Blooded [2669]
TigerPulse: 81%
Posts: 8366
Joined: 8/12/14
|
Re: B of course
Sep 28, 2022, 11:26 AM
[ in reply to B of course ] |
|
getting rid of B would probably take a lot away from A. Cops have shiddy jobs and have to deal with the worst elements. If B were completely gone, they would probably not be so trigger-happy and could go about their way writing traffic citations without constant fear of a bad encounter.
One of the most sane things I've ever seen you post. Congrats!
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7144]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9709
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: Which is the bigger/biggest, most pressing problem
Sep 27, 2022, 8:19 PM
|
|
(B) may seem more dangerous to society in general, but (A) is insidious and IMO actually worse.
(B) leads to a chaotic society; (A) destroys Americas freedoms and turns the USA into a totalitarian state.
Both are (obviously) terrible problems, though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [58424]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46327
Joined: 4/23/00
|
Do you think more people in America are victimized every day
Sep 28, 2022, 12:57 AM
|
|
by a corrupt, unfair criminal justice system than are victimized by violent criminals?
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7144]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9709
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: Do you think more people in America are victimized every day
Sep 28, 2022, 11:26 AM
|
|
Few American citizens in both today's time and in the near future will recognize the greater danger of the creep of totalitarianism.
For the short term, Americans can easily recognize it when others and they are victimized by crime.
Nevertheless, the instances of actual victimization due to violent crime are only among a minority of Americans.
If corruption of police and corruption of the justice system continues to proliferate, then a totalitarian police state will be the eventual outcome. The vast majority Americans (with the exception being the industrialists / America's new 'oligarch' subset / politically connected citizens) will then suffer a society which will be largely devoid of freedoms.
In the Sophie's Choice scenario, I'd prefer that the short term / perpetual victimization of a minority of people to the long term / perpetual victimization of a majority of people.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [58424]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46327
Joined: 4/23/00
|
Do you think our entire criminal justice system is
Sep 28, 2022, 1:18 PM
|
|
inherently, fundamentally flawed, or, is the problem the bad people who will always be such a problem for any such system? What is the fix (or do we just give up?)?
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7144]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9709
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: Do you think our entire criminal justice system is
Sep 28, 2022, 1:32 PM
|
|
Thank you, Smiling One, for the additional question and ongoing dialogue.
IMO, the criminal justice system is not (yet) entirely and systemically (libs use the term systemically a lot these days, don't they?) corrupt.
However, the corruption throughout the DOJ (in evidence with M.Garland and there, but not as evident to non-Fed gov't employees) is the tip of the missile.
Similar with the FBI (corrupt at the top, lots of corruption among the FBI's rank-and-file, but not as universally corrupt as the rank-and-file in the DOJ).
These two incredibly powerful law enforcement agencies can (and do) use coercive tactics to suborn perjury and to subvert our system of justice.
Politically correct initiatives at the local level of law makers has led to indifferent law enforcement at those local levels. Witness the performance of law enforcement at the Uvalde school massacre as an example.
It is only the judicial branch which possesses some modicum of fairness. There are many corrupt and biased judges, but because of longevity there are still plenty of honest judges. It is these (aging) judges that are among our last bastions of fair and unbiased law enforcement.
The trend is upwards with respect to corruption in the system of justice and at the law enforcement agencies. Selective enforcement of the is the foundation of a totalitarian society. We are on that path.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27149]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15702
Joined: 1/26/22
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [58424]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46327
Joined: 4/23/00
|
LOL!***
Sep 28, 2022, 12:44 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27149]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15702
Joined: 1/26/22
|
Besides, that's irrelevant.
Sep 28, 2022, 12:56 PM
|
|
Which choice represents gross violations of the constitution, and which is a social issue? Shouldn't a Constitution-lovin' conservative care about protecting the constitution?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27149]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15702
Joined: 1/26/22
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7144]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9709
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: hard thumbs up, Danny. Bravo post.***
Sep 28, 2022, 11:32 AM
|
|
As with you, I hate choosing between (A) and (B).
Wawawa ... why can't I choose both (A) and (B)? (Mad at Smiling Tiger for asking the tough question!)
Then we can change the name of our country to Shangri La.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9438
Joined: 12/18/13
|
Definitely A
Sep 27, 2022, 8:55 PM
|
|
Call me an optimist, but I believe people are inherently good or at a bare minimum social creatures who benefit from cooperation. I don't think our current justice system is designed to prevent crime or reform criminals. The most obvious example of the broken system is how differently it functions for the rich vs. the poor. Other things off the top of my head: how bad we are at dealing with mental illness and addiction, for profit prisons, adversarial relationship between prosecution and defendants, criminal records essentially making people career criminals, and the militarization of police.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [13141]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14139
Joined: 11/2/15
|
Re: Definitely A
Sep 27, 2022, 9:09 PM
|
|
???. Wow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hall of Famer [24805]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42555
Joined: 7/31/10
|
Yea, I agree.... Dude be trippin'.... Heavy!***
Sep 28, 2022, 5:27 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7207]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9438
Joined: 12/18/13
|
Solid argument. Keep up the good work.***
Sep 28, 2022, 11:15 AM
[ in reply to Re: Definitely A ] |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27149]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15702
Joined: 1/26/22
|
A) Becuase there is no other method of accountability
Sep 28, 2022, 11:20 AM
|
|
/control.
B) can wait because citizens are empowered to protect themselves and their property.
|
|
|
|
|
|
110%er [7144]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 9709
Joined: 10/6/21
|
Re: A) Becuase there is no other method of accountability
Sep 28, 2022, 11:29 AM
|
|
Yeah, it's a shiddy choice between (A) and (B), but there's a way out if we're only facing (B).
If scenario (A) occurs ... which is the road to totalitarianism and He77, then we will have very limited control over our lives.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [27149]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 15702
Joined: 1/26/22
|
Plus, solving A really isn't all that hard.
Sep 28, 2022, 11:35 AM
|
|
The solutions for accountability are out there. The only thing lacking is the political will. You could knock out A) overnight and move on to B) tomorrow if you just had Republicans with the stones to view bad cops as the threat to individual liberty that they are.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [58424]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46327
Joined: 4/23/00
|
Where are the Republican counters to this, claiming that
Sep 28, 2022, 6:40 PM
|
|
all police are good, or bad cops should not be rooted out? There is a widely accepted, unapolgetic narrative in our society that ALL police officers, or police in general are bad. It took one quick internet search to pull up these:
"Why All Cops Are Bad": https://thebottomline.as.ucsb.edu/2020/06/why-all-cops-are-bad
"All Cops Are Bad": https://extranewsfeed.com/all-cops-are-bad-how-modern-police-institutions-negate-moral-responsibility-700629756fa4
"15 Reasons America's Police Are So Brutal": https://www.salon.com/2014/12/20/15_reasons_americas_police_are_so_brutal_partner/
"Mommy, why are police officers so bad?": https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2014/12/03/mommy-why-are-police-officers-so-bad/ Mommy, why are police officers so bad? My daughter asked the question: "Why are police officers so bad?" This isn’t the first time she’s asked this. She’s asked variations of this question dozens of times this past year. And every time she’s asked, I’ve struggled.
I don't think you believe this. I think you know this widely accepted, openly promoted narrative is false. I think you understand the difference between saying "all police officers are bad", or "cops are bad", and saying "some cops are bad, and that hurts all of the good ones". This is what I'm talking about. It's a false narrative. It's wrong.
I agree, cops need to do a better job of policing their own. True bad behavior is totally unacceptable for any cop, and must not be tolerated. I understand that due to the unique dangers and pressures of their jobs, cops become part of a "brotherhood" which encourages them to stick together and be extremely hesitant to speak out against one of their own, even when it is clear that they should. That too is very wrong. I am aware of it and don't defend it for one second, nor do I defend politicians or government officials who do. When it gets to the point that we simply can't trust any police, and we believe that "all cops are bad", then we're in big trouble. Thank goodness, we're not there yet, not close. Yet, the narrative that "cops are bad" persists. "Defund The Police" is all tangled up in this.
The opposite of "All Cops Are Bad", would be the equally absurd "All Cops Are Good", and there is no such serious, widesread narrative. "All Cops Are Good" is very different from "Most Cops Are Good", which is indeed widely believed, and probably more accurate.
The key to all of this, in my opinion, is to simply state the truth: Most cops are good, but must do a better job of helping to get rid of the bad ones. Police departments, judges, and elected officials must do a better job holding them accountable. In the mean time, police authority must still be respected, and some cops behaving badly is no justification for criminal behavior by people who hate or distrust the cops.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [40936]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 42955
Joined: 11/30/98
|
white supremacy
Sep 28, 2022, 6:48 PM
|
|
and climate change
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 23
| visibility 1
|
|
|
50
