Speaking of sausage

Fordtunate Son

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Re: Speaking of sausage

Dec 3, 2023, 7:52 PM

Good question. There's a TON of symbolism in it, and short of looking it all up, I'm just gonna shoot this one from the hip 'cause I'm making the Mrs. and Me a nice pasta salad for later.

1) Spiritually, it's the covenant thing, and practically, it's a "tribal marker,' like a tattoo. But one could get a tattoo anywhere. Why go to such extreme measures for a marker?

2) Sexuality and reproduction was a big deal to ancient folks. A real miracle type thing. It's still a miracle today in my mind, although since we think we know more than we do, and the medical overlay sort of removes us from "wow, that's incredible" aspect of it a bit. Through science we can get right down to the genes of how it works, but we still can't quite say how a lump of bio-matter becomes "alive."

I've spoken about my fascination with consciousness as it related to my MIL on occasion, and the details of the Egyptian concept of a soul as a valiant effort to explain the soul.

Anyway, marking the Johnson is sort of a way to tip the hat to that unknown miracle stuff that happens during seggsy time.

3) Some say it's symbolic of sacrifice as well. The cutting of an animal's neck is very ritualized and structured; they don't just go in there and start pell-mell hacking away. Same with a Bris, or Circumcision Ritual. It's highly structured. Everyone involved has a role, etc.

4) It's done on the 8th day because that's symbolic of "otherworldly," in a vague sense. A Covenant with God beyond the bounds of the physical world. Seven is a very symbolic number for Jews...7 days for creation, etc. So to have the circumcision on the 8th day is to "rise above" that earthly structure. Sort of the religious version of "...but these go to Eleven."

5) It has a charity element. The father is supposed to do the circumcision, but he usually turns it over to a specialist. And then in a communal act, the father offers to pay for the service. And then, in a charity act, the specialist declines payment. All very structured, and intended to show the value of living up to obligations, as well as the value of charity, in the community. Very orchestrated.

6) You get your name during the ceremony, and as with most Jewish rituals, it's one more reason to have a party. L'Chaim! Eating drinking, dancing, all the usual family and community building stuff. Jews LOVE to party. Except maybe the boy, or baby, of honor. They're probably not too excited about the whole affair.

Which brings us too one last symbolic idea. Wouldn't it make more since to have a person willing submit to the procedure, rather than have it occur in infancy. A child can't agree to a Covenant...they're too young. It's the same argument that is used against infant Baptisms. The kid has no idea what is going on, so how can it be consensual, and of value?

Well, the logic is that every Jew, subconsciously, already knows God. That's why, for them, faith has never been an issue. It's implicit. Baked into the system.

Now, if you are trying to convert a whole bunch of Gentiles who have never heard of God, faith is a tougher matter, and you might need their affirmation. But all Jews are assumed to believe in God all the time, so obedience is their issue. By the same token, since the child already knows God from the moment of his birth, his age doesn't really matter. The symbolism of 8 days is more important.

They must do things a bit differently in Islam, because when Mrs. Fordt and I travelled to Istanbul 100 years ago, we completely and randomly stumbled into a circumcision festival.

All these kids, tons of them, all on little ponies, were riding towards the nearby Mosque, in what looked like a parade. I asked a bystander what the occasion was, and he gave me the name, and I'm sure I gave him a deer-in-the-headlights look back. He pointed to my crotch, and I caught on. Now, these kids were young boys. So I asked, "Do they know what's coming?" and the guy shrugged.

So that might have been a nasty surprise for a lot of unsuspecting Muslim boys. "Here Mohommad. Stop playing and singing for a minute, and step over here with me behind the curtain. It'll only take a second and you can go right back to playing with your friends. I promise." Yikes.

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I imagine he could, but a part of the value of circumcision is the separation. The tribal aspect of it - "we are us and they are not us"

A lot of times that's helpful. A community, a club, strength in numbers and all that. But sometimes it backfires, and one of the real problems of the 1st Century for Jews was that they stood out like a sore thumb among first the Greeks, who HATED circumcision and considered it barbaric, and then later, the Romans.

Now, when you are in power, that's one thing. Then, anyone who is not circumcised is a target for abuse, bullying, and assorted persecution by the Jews. "He's not one of us..."

But when the Greeks and later Romans moved in, the Jews essentially self-identified themselves as a vulnerable minority with circumcision. Back then, the gymnasium was a very big part of life. Everyone male expected to go to the gymnasium. Like the shady back room in a bar or restaurant today, it's where business deals were made and agreements were sorted out; all sorts of civil business was conducted at the gym and the baths.

And if you weren't there, you got cut out of society to some extent. If you walk into the room nude among a bunch of uncircumcised Greeks, it's fairly obvious who is who right away. So as a Jew you were handicapped if you did go to the gym, and handicapped if you didn't.

It sounds silly now, but as a day-to-day reality it was a real thing back then. I mean, we have all types of silent discrimination that goes on today, and not just us, everywhere on the planet you'll find it.

The famous fight scene from "Giant"

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Speaking of sausage

People called the firehoses gross for the longest time

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