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Oculus Spirit [97764]
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Pretty disturbing....
May 6, 2014, 11:07 PM
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First, the video of a father being arrested at a school board meeting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsbS9JD7Pvw
Now, I think the guy was EXTREMELY level-headed and respectful given what he was angry about. Specifically, he was angry that his 14 year old daughter was assigned a book to read that has the following passage. His daughter is in the ninth grade. Parents were not made aware of the content of the book whatsoever. The father only found out about it when a family friend who was visiting their home, who had read the book, noticed the daughter was reading it.....for school.
Link to page 313 of the novel "Nineteen Minutes"
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CU Medallion [58455]
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If I understand what happened, I don't have any problem with
May 6, 2014, 11:35 PM
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it. Apparently every one was given time to voice their opinion, which seems fair. He had already had his turn, but wanted more time, so he just started talking. He was very politely asked to stop several times, but kept talking. I don't blame them for kicking him out.
I don't approve of his daughter being required to read that book, and I understand his being upset, but that's a separate issue.
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Oculus Spirit [97764]
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I'm pretty certain it's the same issue.***
May 6, 2014, 11:39 PM
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CU Medallion [58455]
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I don't think so.***
May 6, 2014, 11:42 PM
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110%er [7980]
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CU Medallion [58455]
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Arrested may be over the top, but I have no problem with
May 6, 2014, 11:57 PM
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him being removed.
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Oculus Spirit [97764]
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My guess is it was all a setup, but very well done
May 7, 2014, 8:49 AM
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and probably needed. There's a 10-minute video taken by someone else that shows the father's 2-minutes that he used. When you see the lack of response he got during those two minutes, and the other lady who complained just after he did, you would see why he was even more frustrated.
The school says they were supposed to send a warning to the parents about the book, as they have in the past, but failed to do so this time. They then sent a retroactive warning to the parents, which itself was a joke. The guy used his two minutes to TRY and get the school board member to read the warning the school issued. They refused. So he read it. It says nothing about even the TYPE of content in the book. It is written in a very vanilla manner as to not give anyone a clue as to what is actually objectionable in the book, where to find it in the 300+ pages, or anything else. It is about as specific as any average politicians speech.
I think the father was just as mad at the response to fix the "mistake" as he was about the content of the book.
Here is a link to the full 10-minute video showing the father using his 2 minutes. Also note the lady who spoke after him was much more animated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HC2LPu8wHQ
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CU Medallion [58455]
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That gives a better overall picture. I completely understand
May 7, 2014, 10:16 AM
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his frustration and I might have done the same thing. I also understand why they had him tossed out. At the very least, it certainly brought a lot of attention to the cause.
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All-Pro [673]
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CU Medallion [58455]
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Yes I do have kids in public school.
May 7, 2014, 7:42 AM
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I do like what he has to say. I support his right to say it. I'm not taking his tax money.
I think you are saying that the government shouldn't use his tax money for something he opposes. I wish it worked that way too, but it doesn't. All of us have our tax money used for all sorts of things we oppose. He has the right to speak out against it, and just like the rest of us, there are limits on where, when, and how he can speak out. As it should be.
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Orange Blooded [4983]
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You give my daughter ####, and you'd
May 7, 2014, 7:46 AM
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be lucky not to get your skull cracked.
That gentleman showed tremendous restraint, unlike the porn-peddling government school officials and the nazi cop. The government educated Stepford Citizens in the meeting showed amazing cowardice by doing nothing to defend the guy.
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CU Medallion [58455]
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So, anytime you don't agree with something, all of a sudden
May 7, 2014, 7:58 AM
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the rules don't apply to you. Or, you could work within the rules for constructive change.
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Orange Blooded [4983]
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When the rules include getting off on giving
May 7, 2014, 9:57 AM
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14-year-old girls ####, screw the rules.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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at least your not exaggerating, or anything***
May 7, 2014, 10:18 AM
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All-TigerNet [12269]
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Re: at least your not exaggerating, or anything***
May 7, 2014, 10:32 AM
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About like Penthouse Forum...
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110%er [5156]
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All-In [40657]
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110%er [7390]
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You understand that they had a problem with him speaking?
May 7, 2014, 8:05 AM
[ in reply to If I understand what happened, I don't have any problem with ] |
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Or rather continuing to speak?
Since when is it a crime to speak in a not-really-that-loud manner?
When I get tired of listening to the birds in my trees is it okay if I take a flame thrower to them? After all, flame throwers are legal, you know.
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All-In [29036]
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It was VERY poorly handled by the board/leader
May 7, 2014, 9:38 AM
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But, the simple fact is it's standard, understood, and accepted that at governmental meetings there are rules of order you must follow or you will be asked to leave. I understand his frustration, but the fact is he wasn't arrested for speaking or being out of order, he was arrested for refusing the legal order by a law enforcement officer to leave the premises once he was found to be out of order by the person on the board who was in charge of the meeting.
Again, handled very poorly by the board and those running the meeting, but the officer actually handled himself quite well in a crappy situation. The person leading the meeting has the legal right to ask to officer to have someone ejected from the meeting for being out of order, and the officer at that point does so. When the person refuses he is, in effect, refusing a legal order and is now trespassing.
Now, the board, or the meeting leader, should've handled this situation better, but with only the 2 minute clip, we don't know if the meeting had become a situation where order was deteriorating and the rules were being widely ignored.
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Oculus Spirit [97764]
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And that is why you have kids reading books like these
May 7, 2014, 9:56 AM
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And that is why our education is declining.
I posted a link to the full 10-minute video somewhere. Find it and watch.
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Heisman Winner [111751]
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Re: Pretty disturbing....
May 7, 2014, 2:16 AM
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yup, i bet they took him to in the alley and beat him, then escorted him to room 101 in the ministry of love where he had a cage full of hungry rats strapped to his face.
2+2=5
2+2=5
2+2=5
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Orange Blooded [3520]
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Re: Pretty disturbing....
May 7, 2014, 8:39 AM
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I don't have an issue if they just escort him out. These types of meetings/forums can get crazy if you let things get out of hand. Arresting him was over the top....
As far as the book...completely inappropriate for someone that young...junior or senior...maybe. Probably better left to college level reading. There is too much good and age appropriate literature out there for this to be on the list at that age.
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Oculus Spirit [97764]
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I was reading Shakespeare and Great Expectations, etc.
May 7, 2014, 9:02 AM
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in 9th grade. Plato and Aristotle as a senior. Sure, we had some regular novels mixed in, especially later as juniors and seniors, but nothing like this. I never read anything that graphic in high school.
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110%er [5156]
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You realize Romeo and Juliet is as perverse as it gets
May 7, 2014, 10:38 AM
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right?
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All-In [29036]
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The arrest was probably neccessary
May 7, 2014, 9:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: Pretty disturbing.... ] |
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If the officer gave him a legal order to leave, and it was refused, then what other recourse is there?
For you to make him leave you now have to have a legal justification for physically removing the individual. And that justification comes from an arrest for trespassing (or some other similar infraction) that occurs when you have been notified you are legally not allowed to remain at the meeting.
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All-In [38514]
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I've got daughters that age.
May 7, 2014, 8:49 AM
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Wouldn't bother me if they read that book inside or outside of school. The whole idea of sheltering and protecting kids from anything sexual is a joke.
But that said, it really shouldn't be required reading. I'm sure there are plenty of classics that should be required reading instead.
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110%er [5156]
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This is really my stand as well..
May 7, 2014, 8:56 AM
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I have no problem with this being provided in the library, or on the Self-Selected Reading shelf in the classroom; this is high school, and literary themes of sexuality, self-discovery, and the like are understandably interesting to a high schooler.
The problem comes in that this was required, and that the novel no doubt lacks the requisite merit for that.
There are plenty of novels with relatively adult content for that age group that should take precedence.
The Things They Carried, as an example.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Rock Defender [54]
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TDrake, SRSly
May 7, 2014, 9:05 AM
[ in reply to I've got daughters that age. ] |
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You have a 14 yr old daughter and would not have an objection to her reading that?
Can't tell if srs or trolling.
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All-In [38514]
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No, I would not object to her reading that.
May 7, 2014, 9:38 AM
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One does not develop healthy attitudes towards sex by pretending that it doesn't exist. Many are inadvertently teaching their kids that sex is shameful. And acknowledging that sex exists and is common, natural, and a true joy in life, but can also cause pain and damage is an important lesson for kids to learn. They'll learn the wrong lessons by treating it as if it's shameful.
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All-In [26968]
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Parents should teach that, not the schools.
May 7, 2014, 9:41 AM
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Every parent has a responsibility to teach their child about sex and its proper place, which is solely between a married man and woman.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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hoo needs parents when you've got
May 7, 2014, 9:48 AM
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Orange Blooded [3389]
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All-In [26968]
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Maybe 30-40 years ago, I would have said OK.
May 7, 2014, 10:15 AM
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But today, the government and its schools are so far off base when it comes to "values," it needs to be left to the parents. Teach 'em 2+2, who Benjamin Franklin is, and why the sky is blue, but leave the moral and spiritual values to those who are truly responsible for them: the parents.
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All-In [26968]
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The problem is we've got a generation of lazy parents
May 7, 2014, 10:17 AM
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Who don't want that responsibility. They are all too eager to let the public schools do it for them.
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CU Medallion [54758]
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All-In [38514]
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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Schools should provide sex education. I agree it isn't
May 7, 2014, 10:36 AM
[ in reply to Parents should teach that, not the schools. ] |
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the schools responsibility to teach the morality of sex; however, the information should be provided in school.
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Oculus Spirit [97764]
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I am still somewhat
May 7, 2014, 9:58 AM
[ in reply to No, I would not object to her reading that. ] |
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amazed that the same 14 year old who is given this to read by a school will not be mature enough to buy a beer for another seven years.
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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Yet her body has most likely been mature enough to do
May 7, 2014, 10:35 AM
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what is in that book for a year already...
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All-In [26968]
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A stark reminder that it is essential that the parent
May 7, 2014, 9:36 AM
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Stay on top of what the kids are doing and learning at school. Ask them what they are reading, look at their homework assignments.
Parents are the last gate of defense for the children. And it seems increasingly so that they are the only gate.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Last gate of defense?
May 7, 2014, 10:29 AM
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Hyperbole much? At 14 years old I guarantee they've heard any maybe even personally experience more than what they read in that book. I was a sixth grader in a private christian school once and I can promise you we didn't need an assigned reading like this to learn about these things.
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All-In [26968]
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With God's help and by His grace, mine won't.
May 7, 2014, 10:34 AM
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To me you have a very defeatist attitude. We may not be able to stop all negative influences on them, but we shouldn't just give up.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: With God's help and by His grace, mine won't.
May 7, 2014, 10:38 AM
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Come on man, I don't think it's me being a defeatist but that you are being paranoid. First of all, we are both entitled to our opinions but you and differ one what constitutes a negative influence. Is it really the worst thing the world for a 14 year old to hear about a very natural, normal human act. I would argue that it is much worse for you to attempt to shelter them from every conceivable thing you think might be harmful.
Please not that I am not advocating that all 14 year old should be sexually active or anything remotely close to that but merely that reading a passage such as this is hardly the worse thing in the world.
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All-In [26968]
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Somewhere along the way, the word "sheltered" took on
May 7, 2014, 10:44 AM
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a negative connotation, and I don't know why. If you're outside and there's a tornado coming, you are looking for shelter! You don't want to experience the tornado, so you'll know how to deal with it better!
I love this song, which is a great tribute to great parenting. It's called "Sheltered".
I've missed out on heartaches this world feels everyday
And I've missed out on a broken home that would steal my joy away
I've missed out on all the things they said I'd miss out on
Oh, but somehow I have a heart of peace when their good times are gone
For I've been sheltered by His grace
Kept in a safe place
Protected by the prayers of those who've always sought His face
And in a world of shifting sand I can hold onto their hand
For they've guided me in how to run this race
And as the years go on
I'll be sheltered by His grace
Grace can take the sin away that stained a soul for years
Grace can keep a life that's pure from shedding bitter tears
And the grace that's brought me safe thus far will safely lead me home
For the truth that they've instilled in me will last when they are gone.
For I've been sheltered by His grace
Kept in a safe place
Protected by the prayers of those who've always sought His face
And in a world of shifting sand I can hold onto their hand
For they've guided me in how to run this race
And as the years go on
I'll be sheltered by His grace
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CU Medallion [54758]
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tornados = books.
May 7, 2014, 10:47 AM
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same thing, really....
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Somewhere along the way, the word "sheltered" took on
May 7, 2014, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to Somewhere along the way, the word "sheltered" took on ] |
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Well it's probably because that same shelter that protected you from the tornado, will also "protect" you from the beautiful rainbow that will appear afterwards if you stay hidden under it.
Of course I think we should protect our children from harm and violence but I think this can be taken to an extreme. We need to be exposed to the bacteria of the world, if you will, so that we can build a strong immunity to test for ourselves what is right or wrong.
You are not going to be able to be there for your child every second of every day, you can instill your values in them and trust that they will use those to make good decisions. That's really all we can do.
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All-In [26968]
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Agree with the third paragraph.
May 7, 2014, 10:51 AM
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Totally disagree with the second one. We don't "test for ourselves what is right or wrong". There is a right, and a wrong, and it isn't decided by us, but by God. We should never want to be "exposed" to sin. The Bible says to abstain from all appearance of evil.
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110%er [5156]
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Is genocide wrong?
May 7, 2014, 10:53 AM
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Just asking, since you are a very literalist Bible-believer, and Yahweh loved him some war rape and baby killin.'
Human reason absolutely DOES have a role in morality. That's why if Iran started nuking Israel in the name of Allah, you'd say they're full of it.
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All-In [26968]
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The entire human race deserves genocide.
May 7, 2014, 10:56 AM
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God is gracious and loving enough to not wipe us all off the face of the earth, despite how much we have hated Him.
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110%er [5156]
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Welp, as always, you're consistent at least.****
May 7, 2014, 10:59 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: The entire human race deserves genocide.
May 7, 2014, 10:59 AM
[ in reply to The entire human race deserves genocide. ] |
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Just so we are clear, you are on here saying that reading a passage about a normal sexual act is clearly wrong and detestable but that it's ok that everyone on the entire planet should be massacred?
You are one scary dude.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Indeed.***
May 7, 2014, 11:09 AM
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All-In [26968]
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110%er [5156]
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Every time you post, all I hear is.
May 7, 2014, 1:17 PM
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And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the Lord did grin. And the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats.
And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.
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All-TigerNet [13190]
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Prod is The Underground Man
May 7, 2014, 1:20 PM
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“I am a sick man... I am a spiteful man. I am an unpleasant man. I think my liver is diseased. However, I don't know beans about my disease, and I am not sure what is bothering me. I don't treat it and never have, though I respect medicine and doctors. Besides, I am extremely superstitious, let's say sufficiently so to respect medicine. (I am educated enough not to be superstitious, but I am.) No, I refuse to treat it out of spite. You probably will not understand that. Well, but I understand it. Of course I can't explain to you just whom I am annoying in this case by my spite. I am perfectly well aware that I cannot "get even" with the doctors by not consulting them. I know better than anyone that I thereby injure only myself and no one else. But still, if I don't treat it, its is out of spite. My liver is bad, well then-- let it get even worse!”
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Rock Defender [54]
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Code-I cannot speak for Prod but don't think the
May 7, 2014, 1:31 PM
[ in reply to Re: The entire human race deserves genocide. ] |
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"normal sex act" part is the debate here. Neither is sheltering kids, making sex shameful, etc. What certain kids may or may not have been exposed to or have experienced is immaterial to the objection of the content.
I think it's more around the graphic nature of description in a fictional book that was a required read for 14 yr olds by their school.
There are many ways to teach children about this subject/topic in a much more educational way. Heck, read the passage yourself. She says "no", he covers her mouth and carries on. I can only imagine that children/family members that have been victims of sex crimes would find it abhorrent that they were required to read this by their school.
I would ask: Do you find this to be appropriate content for sex education for a 14 yr old?
Again, it's not a fear of the kids learning something they had no idea existed. It's more about what is appropriate for a kid to read as a result of a requirement by their school.
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CU Guru [1825]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Agree with the third paragraph.
May 7, 2014, 10:57 AM
[ in reply to Agree with the third paragraph. ] |
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Well we are just going to have to agree to disagree on that one. People were having to decided right from wrong long before Christianity and the Bible came into the picture.
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Rock Defender [54]
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