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CU Guru [1177]
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Coaching and recruiting....don't always look at the stars
Dec 21, 2021, 4:30 PM
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I know the recruiting class rankings are fun, it's nice to get the Shiny new toys like the CK and DJ'S on recruiting day and to feel special when kids that can go anywhere choose our program....I get that....however...those kids still need to be coached and have to be willing to learn....
I remember the recruitment of Charone Peak and Adam Humphries.....Humphries and peake both played for Dorman High School and grew up as friends....Dabo and the Clemson staff will never admit it but Adam was offered and Signed to increase our chances at Landing Peake....Peake was a ESPN TOP 5 PLAYER....Adam fought like he'll just to reach 3 star status, he was a 2 star recruit for all but the last month of the recruiting cycle and his Clemson commitment helped him get that extra attention.
But Humpries was the better player for Clemson....you know why? He was the right kid for our system, he was very willing to learn from dabo and our great coaches....and he let them help him develop into a great player....
So when you look at the kids Clemson get or don't get....don't be discouraged.
Those 3 star players or Guys that fly under the radar....may just catch your NATIONAL TITLE WINNING TOUCHDOWN like Hunter and that 5 star player that left to go to GA/ALA might be the one he catches it over
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110%er [8544]
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Re: Coaching and recruiting....don't always look at the stars
Dec 21, 2021, 4:50 PM
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If you are a fan and support Dabo and our assistants you would never be disappointed in who we sign. Dabo has won more games and National Championships than almost every coach in the country in the last 10 years so trust him.
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Hall of Famer [24229]
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Tell 'em u7c coot, no one knows losing better than you
Dec 21, 2021, 8:39 PM
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All-In [44058]
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Yes, and those championships were largely won as a result of
Dec 21, 2021, 10:52 PM
[ in reply to Re: Coaching and recruiting....don't always look at the stars ] |
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incredible talent. Deshaun Watson, Trevor Lawrence, and a host of other players who were top recruits coming out of high school.
Yes, we are also thankful for players like Hunter Renfrow and Ben Boulware, but those championships wouldn’t have been won without mostly generational talent.
I agree that we should trust Dabo. I also agree that our staff has found some diamonds in the rough. But we can’t expect to be outside the top 25 in recruiting often or we won’t be in the playoffs. We weren’t in the playoffs this year, despite being in the top 5-10 in recruiting each of the last few years.
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All-In [48430]
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Re: Coaching and recruiting....don't always look at the stars
Dec 21, 2021, 4:51 PM
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Well said. Kinda like Woodaz, I hope. Lawson little bro, and the safety Conn is courting Darius Thomas Jr. I like them guys that fit our system and don't mind being developed. Much better chance they'll stick in today's environment. Got a few in the NFL still playing... Always thought Hobby was one of the best at identifying hidden talent if you will.
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Scout Team [180]
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Agree - but we better get in gear fast and strong.
Dec 21, 2021, 5:11 PM
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we need to add both quality and quantity NOW. Dropped from verge of top 10 to 37th
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All-In [48430]
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Re: Agree - but we better get in gear fast and strong.
Dec 21, 2021, 5:16 PM
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Ouch. But that's just our low class size but best know it's getting used against us. That said, we've been there b4 and it turned out well.
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Scout Team [180]
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Scout Team [180]
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Scout Team [180]
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Scout Team [180]
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CU Guru [1476]
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CU Medallion [65619]
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Don't forget one Grady Jarrett when talking abou those
Dec 21, 2021, 5:24 PM
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3-Stars. Heyall, Dabo took him over the OBJECTIONS of some of his assistant coaches. Just another example of William Christopher Swinney getting lucky.......
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Scout Team [180]
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I am fine with coaching as long as we are top 10-15 recruits***
Dec 21, 2021, 5:24 PM
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Orange Blooded [2760]
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That’s not totally accurate
Dec 21, 2021, 5:38 PM
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While I certainly agree player development is paramount, I’m not sure we have the leasehold on that process. Many teams develop players extremely well. So, if you start at he same baseline as others, there is no advantage in talent.
The reality is to be a top-tier program, the “ratings” matter. The stats are overwhelming - teams that recruit the highest level of blue chip players win national titles.
Highly rated players generally possess features that allow them to contribute earlier and their ceilings are higher (in general). Of course some players just hit their stride in college but that is not the typical route to elite performance. It is usually a combo of talent and hard work and mental acuity.
While I’m not happy about the class size, the quality is top tier. We have some real needs but hopefully we can fill them before the spring game.
Dabo is exceptionally good at many things but roster Mgt is not one of them. We simply need more bodies coming into the program each year, not so we can be like everyone else, but because it is necessary with 85 scholarships to give. We self impose limitations that shouldn’t be at Clemson and that falls solely on Dabos shoulders.
3 star and walk on players are great headlines but you don’t win many NC titles with a majority of those on your roster.
Hopefully we grab a few quality portal players and just kill it next year in recruiting or 2023 could be a very tough year. Quality depth is a mainstay for any successful program.
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Orange Blooded [2987]
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Re: That’s not totally accurate
Dec 21, 2021, 6:03 PM
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In order to evaluate what seems like a dumb #### post, perhaps worthy of dumb #### post of the day, please share your coaching credentials including games won, conference titles, national championships, players drafted into NFL etc so I can assess if your opinion on roster management is better than Dabo’s? Idiotic comment!!!
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Orange Blooded [2760]
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Well friend
Dec 21, 2021, 6:28 PM
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You have a Merry Christmas and try to enjoy life without demeaning others.
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All-American [564]
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Dumb & idiotic is...
Dec 21, 2021, 9:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: That’s not totally accurate ] |
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when you are B!+ching, moaning, & crying about the discussion of football on a football discussion board. Kind of like standing in middle I85 & you're ranting & raving, "What the Eph are these cars doing on an interstate hwy?"
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All-In [44058]
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110%er [7159]
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Re: That’s not totally accurate
Dec 21, 2021, 8:11 PM
[ in reply to That’s not totally accurate ] |
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It's easy to get caught up in recruiting rankings; I'll admit to paying lots of attention to them (but primarily as a leisure-time diversion in between higher profile leisure time diversions like the football games themselves). So I've got no reason to blame you for paying attention to recruit ratings.
But if you pay attention to recruiting rankings and how the players tend to move up and move down in the rankings, much of that change is based on the recruiting 'gurus' learning that a high profile team has started to recruit a player not known well to the recruiting service. The recruiting rankings for that particular player always increase (and sometimes dramatically).
That elevation in the recruiting ranking has nothing to with the evaluations prowess of the recruiting service's 'experts' ... it has everything to do with the recruiting service attempting to preserve their credibility be 'me too'ing' the rating of the recruit by agreeing with the coaches that are recruiting the player.
This long diatribe explains why smart coaching staffs recognize players that the recruiting staffs under-estimate, and why a team like Clemson has disproportionate success with signing 3* players.
SUMMARY: Enjoy reading the recruiting service's opinions and ratings, but understand the context behind their ratings of HS football players.
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110%er [7179]
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Re: That’s not totally accurate
Dec 21, 2021, 8:41 PM
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RememberTheDanny One of the best responses on this subject I have seen. Bravo!
Too many folks who only look at stars "were not looking initially"! This is where they get lost and tripped up! Oregon was dominant under Chip Kelly - they had an offense teams weren't use to and really fast players. But, if you look back at the Chip Kelly Oregon years he was in the mid-twenties in recruiting! Baylor was too under Art Briles - yet teams didn't really want to see them on the field. HRT did they win a NC? No, but they didn't have the whole package(including the culture established at CU). What's Cincinatti's average recruit ranking that was able to go to a good Notre Dame's home field and win amid the ghost? But now, sprinkle in some 4 and 5 star talents and you get something special!
Don't rule out any 3 star player as the majority of CFB is comprised of them! How well they develop is where the difference lies(given the right circumstances like having a few difference makers as well and such).
There are still only so many scholarships allowed, right? Only 11 can be on the field at any given time, still right?
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All-American [564]
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Cause Peake tore his knee in 3 places; stars matter most****
Dec 21, 2021, 5:57 PM
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All-American [564]
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Cause Peake tore his knee in 3 places; stars matter most****
Dec 21, 2021, 5:57 PM
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110%er [7179]
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Re: Coaching and recruiting....don't always look at the stars
Dec 21, 2021, 6:21 PM
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OP - I agree 100% Malachi Dupree was the can't miss WR we thought we would get; but settled on a "low 4 star" Mike Williams. Williams had the better college career and is still in the league. Your example of Hunter Renfrow catching a TD to win a Natty is spot on! In 2015, the freshman through senior class team that lost to Alabama in a classic(w/Mike Williams I believe we win that) was composite 17th ranked. "17th" and beat and could have easily have beaten teams with composite # 2 and #4 classes.
It doesn't mean the end of the world to your point!
The folks who put all the eggs in the "you had better get all the best players or kiss your chances goodbye basket" must not know Georgia and Florida should be competing for titles each/every year! They get a boat-load of talent year after year! They certainly shouldn't lose to teams with "less talent" but they do! In short, it doesn't guarantee a thing! It betters your chances; I admit! But, without coaching and development, forget about it!
I get your point OP - I think some people can't see the forrest for the one or two trees! Ohio State I would also add to this list I mentioned earlier! The Buckeyes are(can't guarantee this; but believe it to be true with ease) are 4-1 vs. Clemson. They almost certainly had the composite class recruiting advantage in each meeting when they faced Clemson! Renfrow and Jarrett haven't been the only ones though!
https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2016/isaiah-simmons-3244 https://n.rivals.com/sign_upRivals.com The definitive source for all Rivals news.
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110%er [7179]
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CU Guru [1177]
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Re: Coaching and recruiting....don't always look at the stars
Dec 21, 2021, 7:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Coaching and recruiting....don't always look at the stars ] |
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@hillrocktiger
I completely agree. People don't seem to understand that when we won both of our national titles we had less STARS per players than 16 teams the first title and 13 teams the 2nd title.
We recruit well....and I won't say that getting the talented players at the top of the rankings is meaningless of course the highly recruited players matter but, it's those 3 star players that get developed that separates teams that both have a lot of talent....
Coaching and player development is critical....
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110%er [5014]
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Re: Coaching and recruiting....don't always look at the stars
Dec 6, 2021, 3:34 PM
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We definitely didn’t win 2 National Championships by signing 4 and 5 star players
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All-American [564]
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Oh he|| no we didn't, it was....
Dec 21, 2021, 9:18 PM
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DWatson, TLawrence, JRoss, & the front four-all 2 & 3 *s right?
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110%er [7179]
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CU Guru [1852]
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Re: Oh he|| no we didn't, it was....
Dec 21, 2021, 10:36 PM
[ in reply to Oh he|| no we didn't, it was.... ] |
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This… Please start a list of the most impactful players for both of our national championships.
The players that made an impact on the game were overwhelmingly 4 and 5* players. Yes, you get a 2 and 3 star every now and than that turns into a player but you don’t win national championships with a roster full of them. The only hope is that todays world isn’t the same as it was in say 2018 so disappointing recruiting classes can be fixed in 1 year in the portal versus hurting your program for 3 years.
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CU Guru [1177]
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Re: Oh he|| no we didn't, it was....
Dec 22, 2021, 1:05 AM
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We lost 2 games this year to teams that were extremely less talented as a whole
Pitt won the acc and haven't been top 3 in the ACC in recruiting ever..
Fsu has been horrible despite top 10 classes constantly....
The usc Trojans had top 5 classes 6 years in a row and never sniffed the top 10 in the final rankings in those years.
You need a mixture of THE RIGHT 4 and 5 star players.....and the right over achieving players that buy in...
Of course you need the talented kids....however it doesn't always matter...
DJ was what a top 10 player nationally coming outta high school?
Kenny Pickett was a 3 star player and number 738 nationally....
Who would you of rather had at qb this year?
It's not always as important as you guys think
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