Replies: 23
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Orange Blooded [3590]
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Orange Blooded [2140]
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Re: Clemson Diversity Training:
Apr 11, 2017, 8:33 AM
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If so, then it's also culturally insensitive if they expect you to wait for them. Two way street, right?
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110%er [7718]
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Re: Clemson Diversity Training:
Apr 11, 2017, 8:48 AM
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Good lord
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110%er [9101]
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Is it culturally insensitive to fire the person who put this
Apr 11, 2017, 9:16 AM
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training together?
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Legend [15749]
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I'm disappointed in the National Review.
Apr 11, 2017, 9:30 AM
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The scenario as written in the article described a meeting of visiting professors from another country. If there were visiting professors and students from a country that is loose with time, I would agree with the test. Let it go.
That's not to say that a foreign student at Clemson wouldn't have to learn to be on time or conform to other social norms. Or even if he were hosting the visiting professors for a week, maybe he would explain the social norm to them. But as described, I wouldn't demand an apology from them.
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CU Medallion [60243]
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what countries are "loose" with time?
Apr 11, 2017, 9:34 AM
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is there a list we can reference?
If so, I can treat them like I do my girlfriend when we plan to go to the movie theater - I just tell her a 7:30 movie starts at 7:00 so we can make it there "on time". Simple, but effective.
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110%er [9101]
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South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Miss.***
Apr 11, 2017, 10:24 AM
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Legend [15749]
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Not sure. But if I was tasked with coordinating a visit from some
Apr 11, 2017, 10:50 AM
[ in reply to what countries are "loose" with time? ] |
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professors and students from another country, I would take a few minutes to understand them.
Please understand that it's also culturally insensitive for visiting professors from such cultures not to understand that in America, one is expected to be on time. The course wasn't for them, however.
I'm just saying that the headline was click bait, which is disappointing. The question gave options of chastising, requesting an apology, or moving on. For a single meeting I probably wouldn't make a big deal out of it. If someone came from the other side of the planet and wanted to chat before getting started, I wouldn't find that rude. Also remember that these questions pose the scenario in a bit of a vacuum. Was the other party upset? Was it a big inconvenience for them to be there? Did they have a hard stop and this cut into their time? What about other options? Tell them later or whatever.
All I'm saying is that there is a LOT of liberal BS out there and this example registers very low on the list for me.
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CU Medallion [60243]
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I'm just amazed that punctuality is deemed a cultural trait
Apr 11, 2017, 11:03 AM
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I always thought it was a HUMAN trait to be somewhere at an agreed upon time when scheduled to meet at said agreed upon time.
What culture enjoys waiting on others' lackadaisical efforts, or is not at least put out a little when forced to?
If anything, I would have guessed that Americans would be the appointment slackers of the world.
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All-In [28802]
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The Anglo world is kind of an outlier
Apr 11, 2017, 12:45 PM
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Others are a little more relaxed, especially if they're Hispanic-influenced. I think they're less interested in time-frames as discrete periods where you're aiming to get things done efficiently than they are in just sort of having a general period of time in which something will happen. So they don't see it as a waste of time if something doesn't get done or doesn't start when it's supposed to.
I think it's at least partly tied to Anglo-influenced cultures being more historically capitalistic. Time gets turned into a scarce commodity, so people are more anxious about it.
Message was edited by: camcgee®
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CU Medallion [60243]
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so how do they hold soccer matches?
Apr 11, 2017, 1:14 PM
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kickoff "noonish"?
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Oculus Spirit [97764]
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Punctuality is not as important in socialist or communist
Apr 11, 2017, 12:47 PM
[ in reply to I'm just amazed that punctuality is deemed a cultural trait ] |
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countries. It's also not as important among salaried workers. But when someone's lateness costs someone else money, or yourself, it's bad. That dynamic does not exist in some countries' economies.
But maybe instead of just trying to understand THEM, we should also try and let them understand US.
Specifically, countries like France, Greece, Switzerland, and some other countries I've visited tardiness is much more acceptable.
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All-In [28802]
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I'm not sure the alternatives are capitalist or socialist
Apr 11, 2017, 12:55 PM
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Like there's such a thing as being overly capitalistic, or such a thing as coming from a traditional culture that's less obsessed with commerce. Highly commercial societies tend to care more about punctuality, but a community doesn't need to be socialistic to not be highly commercial.
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All-In [28802]
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Well, it's Kat Timpf's campus beat
Apr 11, 2017, 12:22 PM
[ in reply to I'm disappointed in the National Review. ] |
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She pretty much just writes for NR about these silly things that happen on campus, or about the latest viral outrage. She doesn't go too in depth, and in fact, she's an atheist libertarian who's not all that conservative.
Anyway, while I agree that a lot of this just seems like typical cultural sensitivity training, the guidelines they put out say something about doing what they recommend because nobody's cultural practice is more right than somebody else's. But that's missing the point: we're in the US, and there's nothing wrong with telling these people what our norms are and expecting them to at least try to conform to them.
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Oculus Spirit [97764]
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Time is money for many people.
Apr 11, 2017, 12:43 PM
[ in reply to I'm disappointed in the National Review. ] |
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Notsomuch for college professors. Time is a valuable asset when it is directly tied to your labor. When you waste someone's time, you cost them money.
I know my customers (insurance companies) spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on late lawyers and claimant's, Commissioners, etc. If a lawyer or Commissioner is late to a hearing, and the lawyers are being paid $200 an hour, that's $100 extra dollars someone's tardiness is costing an insurance company. They pass that on because they have to make money. Tardiness among lawyers, and other people, is a cost factor in many things you pay for and don't even realize.
I would not expect an egg head liberal academic to understand this aspect of how a capitalist system works. If a professor is late for class, everyone waits. No harm. If a doctor is late for that emergency heart surgery, someone dies.
It's insensitive to others TO BE LATE.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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And as I tell my wife often
Apr 11, 2017, 12:46 PM
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Being on time is free. It's easy to do, and it doesn't cost anything. Why not just do it?
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Oculus Spirit [97764]
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You can also see it as a sign of selfishness.
Apr 11, 2017, 12:50 PM
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You set an appointment and when you're late you're telling the other person your time is more important than theirs. It's just bad business, if nothing else. But some people just see it as a selfishness or aloofness on the part of the person whose time is (or is perceived) to be more important. Doctors and lawyers and executives are much more likely to be late on things because their time is more money than yours. That's why you wait forever at a doctors office.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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I've told her about the respect part, also***
Apr 11, 2017, 12:52 PM
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Oculus Spirit [97764]
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Take a burger flipper for example.
Apr 11, 2017, 1:01 PM
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He's late to McDonalds for work. They're an employee short for an hour. Their customers then have to wait a proportional amount of extra time for their food. They don't come back. You lose customers. Guy loses his job as restaurant closes. OTHERS lose their jobs also. And the reason you don't get a raise for being late all the time is because you're costing your employer money. Extra money in lost profits from less food sold.
I understand the article and they're right that punctuality is not seen as important in other cultures. That's why they suck. And explaining that is not insensitive, but a gift. It's one of the things that sets America apart from everyone else.
For me, it's insensitive to NOT explain why it IS important. I will remain sensitive to the fact that they can go back home and be late. But here they at least need to understand why we're different.
I got lectured by a Greek guy once in a Taberna in Athens about how Americans work too hard and don't have enough free time. Spending a two weeks there, I see exactly why they had an economic crisis, and will continue to have one.
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CU Medallion [60243]
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being punctual is not for your own benefit, it's for others
Apr 11, 2017, 1:20 PM
[ in reply to You can also see it as a sign of selfishness. ] |
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and you are correct, it is totally selfish not to respect others' time, no matter who you are.
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110%er [6677]
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Re: Time is money for many people.
Apr 11, 2017, 1:02 PM
[ in reply to Time is money for many people. ] |
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I did read somewhere that sometimes very positive people are often times late. They try to fit too many things into their time window and they just can't seem to fit it all in - on time.
Might seem harsh but IMO, most habitual lateness is plain old bad manners. Maybe I need some sensitivity training?
Habitual tardiness at work will definitely get you fired.
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Oculus Spirit [81078]
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I've told my employees that before.
Apr 11, 2017, 1:15 PM
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I've got one guy that I continually but heads with--he just doesn;t try very hard, and his output shows it.
I was working with him a few weeks ago and he told me I was "out to get him". I explained had I really been out to get him, I'd just track his time for a week, and be done with it. Being late is one of the few things that I can fire someone for without a lot of HR hassle about 90 day plans, personal improvement programs, retraining, etc.
He immediately shut up.
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Oculus Spirit [78892]
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Oculus Spirit [78892]
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I agree with the answer in the article
Apr 11, 2017, 2:05 PM
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it should be #3 because there is no reason to be a richard head for some bullshat jagoff meeting that nobody wants to go to
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Replies: 23
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