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Time for us to all get our orange glasses off. There are rules. We should not be a hypocrite here.
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Replies: 59  

Time for us to all get our orange glasses off. There are rules. We should not be a hypocrite here.

emoji_events [35]
Dec 25, 2018, 9:53 AM

This is a drug test. It came back positive. I’m hoping it’s a lot of fuss about nothing. I hope that it’s overturned and all three are eligible.

But, the board is acting like a bunch of hypocrites. If this was Bama everyone would be saying how they cheat. Now that it’s us, we are wronged. Even saying the sample was tampered with.

No ONE tampered with any sample. We did something that allowed this. Maybe not on purpose, but let’s handle this like it is. We screwed up, we obey the rules and we will try and overcome.

Be bigger than the rest and learn from this. Don’t blame it or make excuses. Man up.

We still win this game and hopefully use this as motivations.

2022 orange level member flag link

There are rules. We should not be a hypocrite here.

[4]
Dec 25, 2018, 9:56 AM

Agree 100% ______________just wish I didn't have too**

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Three letters:

emoji_events [5]
Dec 25, 2018, 9:58 AM

U N C

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There's something in these hills.


Re: Three letters:

emoji_events [8]
Dec 25, 2018, 10:17 AM

That's because in our game with them a couple of years ago, Bama had several including Foster that tested positive but Saban played them anyway and through appeals, they dealt with it offseason. Has nothing to do with orange glasses and I despise you people that use that term because it doesn't fit your narrative. Nothing we can do about it, Dabo and team and staff will do what they do. I see where Bama has also suspended 3, including a starting OT for the Orange bowl.

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Re: Three letters:


Dec 25, 2018, 1:09 PM

If I’m not mistaken they failed a team administered test right? Kind of like Cain, that big TE, and our coke head kicker Lakip did that same year.

Bama in my opinion is an awful example because Saban did let Robinson play when he got arrested with drugs, money, and a gun in a car in Louisiana.

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"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln


Re: Three letters:


Dec 25, 2018, 1:11 PM

Also..

I just hate it for Big Dex because you know he wants to be out there with his buddies and this is very uncharacteristic of him. The fact that he lawyered up tells me he that he sincerely doesn’t know how he got that in his system. Regardless if they suspend him or not.

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"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln


Re: Three letters:

[4]
Dec 25, 2018, 11:20 AM

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/8897280/deer-antler-salesman-saw-alabama-players-use-product


In 2011/2012, 20+ Alabama players tested positive for PEDs (IGF-1) a couple days before the national championship game against LSU. The steroids dealer even admitted to meeting these 20+ players in an apartment in Tuscaloosa and s hotel in New Orleans. 20+ players, including the ENTIRE Alabama starting defense all fsiled drug tests for PEDs.

The NCAA did NOTHING. They didnt even acknowledge it.

The Alabama players were allowed to play eith no repercussions, and Alabama ended up beating LSU 21-0 to "win" the national championship.


Under no circumstances should Clemson abide by ANY penalties.

Play Dex, win the title, and tell the NCAA to stick it where the sun doesnt shine. If they fine us, refuse to pay. If they try to ban us or suspend us, ignore them.

They didnt do jack #### with Alabama.
They didnt do jack #### with UNC.

I DARE them to do anything to us.

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That's not the way I want to roll

[2]
Dec 25, 2018, 12:27 PM

Whether Bama cheated to win a championship or not, I don't want Clemson ever to give cause for fans of other teams to talk like you just did about Bama. Fact is, we could have benefited from playing Cain and Lakip in 2015. But if doing so would have resulted in winning a natty but then having to hear for the rest of our lives how we cheated to win, count me out.

If the final result is positive, send them home. We win or lose without any question of cheating.

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The definition of awesome!


Re: That's not the way I want to roll


Dec 26, 2018, 8:58 AM

My frustration is NOT directed at Bama or the young players who are still naive and make dumb decisions.

My frustration and criticism is entirely directed at the NCAA for their blatant corruption on full display.

Bama only does these things because they've never been disciplined otherwise under Nick Saban. Much like a child, if you do not direct and discipline a child properly, that child will be undisciplined and likely to do bad things or things that are harmful. If you dont train your dog to NOT pee in your living room, eventually your dog will start peeing in your living room under the assumption that nothing is wrong. Granted, Alabama should know better, but if they arent going to be punished for these things, then why would the be incentivized to not do these things?


This level of dishonesty and inconsistency is beyond mere accidents or administrative incompetency. Its deliberate corruption that is impacting nationally implicated sports programs that bring in profits of hundreds of millions, even billions of dollars.


That is beyond simply cheating to win a game, that is outright fraud on a Wall Street-level scale.

How the FBI has not eviscerated the NCAA by now, I have no idea. But it is high time for federal law enforcement to bring the hammer down on these corrupt ######.

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Re: Three letters:


Dec 26, 2018, 10:26 AM

what are you personally plan on doing about it?

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Here's what I think

emoji_events [8]
Dec 25, 2018, 10:20 AM

Pisses me off. UNC gets away with the biggest academic scandal ever, and we have 3 kids with a trace amount of some substance no one knows anything about or where it came from. NCAA is a frigging farce.

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Photobucket


Re: Here's what I think

[1]
Dec 25, 2018, 10:51 AM

You are correct Valley. This did not have to happen. If the gamecocks did this everyone would be irate

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Re: Here's what I think


Dec 25, 2018, 2:08 PM

No, I would say it was B.S. just like I said it was when Florida's q.b. lost a season over it several Years ago.

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If we were being hypocrites

emoji_events [5]
Dec 25, 2018, 10:54 AM

There'd be passing of judgment over the Bama suspensions...but no one is, to my knowledge.

What's frustrating is the condemnation and punishment that comes with a 'trace' positive finding and no recourse whatsoever. The NCAA is wholeheartedly content to operate with impunity and absent any common sense and decency whatsoever. Three athletes...and rest assured, there are others elsewhere, get treated as common criminals by a 'legislative' body wholly incapable of meting out enforcement when the violation hits them in the eye, yet possesses not one whit of hesitancy in applying 'action' that comes with zilch time to respond. Talk about tilting the playing field at the 11th hour. Very sporting....

That's the sham that's the NCAA. In. My. Opinion.

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Re: If we were being hypocrites

emoji_events [7]
Dec 25, 2018, 11:03 AM

"Trace" or "sliver" doesnt mean what people think it means. If I did a mountain of methamphetamine today, there would only be a trace on day 3. If I smoked a fistful of weed today, there would only be a sliver in 2 weeks. We're talking about nanograms. But the amount in the sample isn't necessarily indicative of how much someone consumed.

All of a sudden, Tigernet homers are resident experts on drug testing. In 99.9% of cases, there is no tampering, repeatable false positives, or other thing you can point to. But magically we're the .01% ?

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Re: If we were being hypocrites

[2]
Dec 25, 2018, 11:10 AM

No hypocrisy. I’ve been part of that.01 % you speak of and it’s not fun going around knowing it is bogus and feeling like a failure until it’s vindicated. But that doesn’t do anything for the stress felt between the two.

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Re: If we were being hypocrites


Dec 25, 2018, 11:49 AM

Bama suspended their players the ncaa did not. I suspect their issue is something other than controlled substance.

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Re: If we were being hypocrites


Dec 25, 2018, 12:20 PM

Where did the 99.9% number come from? Did you pull it out of the sky?

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Re: If we were being hypocrites


Dec 25, 2018, 12:31 PM

Drug tests are one of many things I sell. When the sensitivity and specificity of a test is over 99%, it must be magic that everyone who gets popped was the unlucky 1 out of 1000. People who test positive for drugs make excuses. Legitimate inaccuracies on reference lab equipment is very uncommon. Controls and calibration are run constantly. One sample might be defensible. 3 is not. Some coot didnt sneak into the football shower and sprinkle performance enhancers in our shampoo.

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OH! You've got money in the game. Why don't you S u c k off.***


Dec 25, 2018, 2:13 PM



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Re: OH! You've got money in the game. Why don't you S u c k off.***


Dec 25, 2018, 2:25 PM

Drugs of Abuse testing. You can take a deep breath and relax. My customers test their patients for opiates and benzodiazepines to make sure they're taking them and not diverting them.

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Actually the only thing that is known at this point


Dec 25, 2018, 2:28 PM

are the stats you cited in the first part of your post. None of us know now for sure whether there are any testing equipment, chain of custody, cross-contamination or other issues. You say "uncommon" but that doesn't mean it can't happen. That's why there's a process in place and lawyers to see that it goes correctly, and it needs to play out instead of people playing judge and jury on here. We heap tons of praise on Dabo and the players when things are good, but we immediately assume they are lying or being deceptive about this? The players may very well turn out to be guilty, but automatically assuming that they are without definitive proof is a pretty negative attitude and IMO not much of a fan. Let things play out and stop all the rampant speculation.

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Re: If we were being hypocrites


Dec 26, 2018, 9:52 AM


Drug tests are one of many things I sell. When the sensitivity and specificity of a test is over 99%, it must be magic that everyone who gets popped was the unlucky 1 out of 1000. People who test positive for drugs make excuses. Legitimate inaccuracies on reference lab equipment is very uncommon. Controls and calibration are run constantly. One sample might be defensible. 3 is not. Some coot didnt sneak into the football shower and sprinkle performance enhancers in our shampoo.





But what are the positive and negative predictive values? Those will be more important and allow people to understand the likelihood of a false positive. Sensitivity and specificity tend to be over blown by people selling products and misunderstood by most, including those who should know better.

Not saying you are wrong but that your conclusions may represent the phrase that there are “lies, d a m n lies, and statistics.”

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Again..putting 'words' in peoples' mouths...


Dec 25, 2018, 12:44 PM

You're citing 'DRUG' examples. Really...you think we're all that stupid? LOL...now for us to take that position, indeed, that would be hypocrisy. Furthermore, you're assuming ALL of us think it's a bad test. That's not it at all...AGAIN.

Let this sink in...just a bit...simply try:
The FDA works on the premise DRUGS are harmful until deemed SAFE.
The FDA works on the premise SUPPLEMENTS are safe until deemed HARMFUL.

There's a DISTINCT difference and, yet, the NCAA and other sports 'bodies' take it upon themselves to be expert, jury, and judge. And, yet again...and again...and again...the NCAA can overlook 'elephants in the room' and chase fleas instead. Penny-wise...ultra-pound foolish!

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EXACTLY! Last minute, selective BS....


Dec 25, 2018, 2:11 PM

Maybe someone should reciprocate... ;~)

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B samples are collected for a reason

[1]
Dec 25, 2018, 11:25 AM

Labs have issues with instrumentation and processes all the time. I see it every day. Lets just see what the second set of results show.

If they come back positive, I understand that they won't be able to play for the cotton bowl. But like other athletes that this happened to before, there is an appeal process that they can go through.

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Could not agree more. There is no conspiracy

[1]
Dec 25, 2018, 11:33 AM

If you are taking something illegal you should be punished for it. I love Big Dex and the others but they need to be held accountable. Quit trying to validate it. They know better.

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Just learn from it and move on. I’m sure there are


Dec 25, 2018, 11:40 AM

Many other players on other teams doing stuff as well. Alabama with antler spray. But it does not make it right if others are doing it.

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Naw. I don't need your permission.

[1]
Dec 25, 2018, 11:40 AM

But thanks dad.

I side with the students' honesty. And those Tigers opposed to how the NCAA allowed UNC to go without punishment. And/or Bama.
I already know Dabo will follow the rules, but I also wish he'd play them. Let the NCAA try and enforce their bogus crap.

GO TIGERS! BEAT THE IRISH!

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offs. the ncaa did not “let” Unc get away with

[1]
Dec 25, 2018, 12:38 PM

anything. they effectively buried the football team with sanctions. they were told, in court, that they had no ability to sanction over the fake classes because those classes were available to everyone, athlete or not. if you want to be irritated with someone, be irritated with whoever provides accreditation to the university. they could have determined that the entire university should be sanctioned by effectively making degrees from there worthless. they didn’t do that because it would have been like dropping an atom bomb.

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Re: offs. the ncaa did not “let” Unc get away with


Dec 26, 2018, 9:03 AM

Wrong. Utterly, and totally wrong.

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Re: Time for us to all get our orange glasses.

[2]
Dec 25, 2018, 11:49 AM

Totally disagree with the original post. These young men have been model student athletes. Nothing in their history to date suggests that they would knowingly ingest an illegal substance. If the did do it knowingly, then they certainly should be dealt with in a fair and proportional manner. If it was accidental due to something everyone thought was legal, then that should be dealt with proportionally as well. I don't care which team they play on. Tnetters are being hypocrites only asking for proportionality.

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Re: Time for us to all get our orange glasses.


Dec 25, 2018, 12:11 PM

Sorry ...... Tnetters are "NOT" being hypocrites only asking for proportionality.

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I Will side with Dabo and the players until proven wrong

[4]
Dec 25, 2018, 11:59 AM

If Dabo says he doesn’t believe they did anything, that’s good enough for me for now. When you think about it, it doesn’t make sense that a highly heralded player like Dex, who has been through this process the past few years, and is projected as a high NFL draft would intentionally do something to blatantly sabotage that at the last minute. The more likely scenario is what Dabo said. And maybe the players did take some kind of supplements. That isn’t illegal. I remember when I was young and lifted for sports, people would go to GNC and such to get different protein powders and other supplements. With the internet today, there are tons of distribution sources.

I had never heard of this ostarine in my life until this broke. However a quick internet search gives numerous stories about false positives, stories of real positives and penalties, and a bunch of shady internet sites trying to sell the stuff. So it seems to me that the possibility of cross-contamination with a legitimate supplement or other product, either intentionally or unintentionally by the mfr) is very real and honestly makes more sense in Big Dex’s case. So again, I will choose to rely on the statements and character of those who have worked so hard for us and in whom we have always believed.

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Re: I Will side with Dabo and the players until proven wrong


Dec 25, 2018, 12:16 PM

I think people need to come to the realization that most OL, DL, LB at some point in their career (college or pro or both) take something that is performance enhancing, and not legal. Ever see trench players on a monday on campus after a game? They can barely walk. We ask fb players to do something that humans aren't meant to do. But by every Saturday or Sunday, they're ready to go. Humans dont squat 600#, run like deer, destroy their bodies 12-15 games per year, and magically repeat all this without some help for strength and more importantly, recovery. Hint... it ain't protein and creatine.

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Re: I Will side with Dabo and the players until proven wrong

[1]
Dec 25, 2018, 12:38 PM

There are some products that were including this stuff from what I read. It's very probable they tried a supplement that they didn't realize had a banned ingredient. Anyway, the heck with it all. Band together and fight harder. Maybe an appeal will allow DL to get into the Natty.

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Re: I Will side with Dabo and the players until proven wrong


Dec 25, 2018, 12:39 PM

I really doubt that.

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Maybe some but not “most” or there’d be more stories


Dec 25, 2018, 12:40 PM

And again, I could understand a newer player or a player trying to break through on the depth chart. Just doesn’t make sense for a successful guy already firmly in the spotlight and knows the CFP process well. I’m going to choose to stay positive on these guys until I have a reason not to and not just speculate or extrapolate their situation to everyone else.

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Pox on you for ruining my Christmas by having

[2]
Dec 25, 2018, 12:42 PM

to engage your BS. You really are a clueless MFer, aren't you?

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The definition of awesome!


Re: I Will side with Dabo and the players until proven wrong

[1]
Dec 25, 2018, 12:45 PM

Players cannot be expected any more than the general public to know what is actually in a "supplement".
The ingredients undergo no confirmation or approval by the FDA before marketing. Your congress in the 90s essentially removed the agency ability to control and enforce public protections in effect at that time for the protections afforded to drugs once called a "supplement". In short -You take your chances!

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hard to believe that an athlete would attempt to recover

[1]
Dec 25, 2018, 12:42 PM

more quickly from an injury by using a banned substance? when potentially tens of millions of dollars are on the line over being a first or second round draft pick?

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Not when you know you’re going into the CFP


Dec 25, 2018, 1:02 PM

And you’ve seen our players benched before for drug tests. Chances of getting caught are entirely too high. Dex has had some injuries but his big problem last year seemed nerve related in his foot. I think he got injured again this year in the GT game but nothing too serious. Dex was a known quantity and didn’t need to prove himself to anyone. Any wear and tear would have likely healed in the off season.

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Re: I Will side with Dabo and the players until proven wrong


Dec 26, 2018, 10:32 AM

If Dabo said they didnt do it, thats all we need. Thats it!! I suspect the NCAA will read this and come to their senses and throw out the failed results. This board is a laughing stock and a poor representation of our fan base.

NEWS FLASH: Dabo is gonna say whatever he wants ya'll to hear. One week he doesnt know big words and now he's an expert on PED's.

Ya'll come see me at 107 E Orr St. Anderson, SC and Ill tell you more about our beloved coach.

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Nah, this is BS. IF it was roids, I'd agree with you, but


Dec 25, 2018, 12:46 PM

this is BS.

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Re: Nah, this is BS. IF it was roids, I'd agree with you, but


Dec 25, 2018, 12:57 PM

There should be enough time for another test by another company. Just seems a little harsh to potentially take a student's last opportunity to play college football away without time for a true retest.

Would be a true travesty for a bad test, manufacturing failure, or human failure to take that moment away from a man.

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I don't care if the test is positive. A suspension for a


Dec 25, 2018, 1:44 PM

substance that can be found commonly is just ridiculous.

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This is spot on


Dec 25, 2018, 12:55 PM

As much as I would like to believe that these guys didn't take anything, if the B sample(s) also come back positive, it unfortunately doesn't matter how it got into their systems or whether it was enough to have any practical effect on their performance.


The bottom line is that there are rules in place and just because we know and love these players, we cannot make exceptions for them if the B tests are also positive. We can disagree about whether or not the rules that are in place are fair and reasonable, but at this point they are the rules. We have to abide by them just like we would want Bama or UGA to abide by them if they had players test positive.

Think back a couple years to all the criticism and uproar over Will Grier's positive test for PED's. He says that he ingested them by taking an OTC supplement that unbeknownst to him contained illegal substances. That isn't all that different from our guys not knowing what they may have taken to cause the potential positive test.

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very well said!***


Dec 25, 2018, 12:58 PM



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Dude, how do you know that?

[1]
Dec 25, 2018, 1:49 PM

It is indeed possible our players took a legal substance that was manufactured in a contaminated lab.
It is possible the sample was tainted, compromised or sabotaged - though not likely. Still possible.

You and i just don't know. Right, dude?

Itend to think this was a totally innocent mistake. E.g. took a supplement that conained ostramine, but that was not listed as an ingredient.

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Re: Dude, how do you know that?


Dec 25, 2018, 1:53 PM

And I think that you are right. The NCAA probably knows that this is likely to be what happened. Nevertheless, I suspect that DLawrence has played his last game for Clemson ... and there is the real crime.

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Bs


Dec 25, 2018, 2:06 PM

It's a B.s. standard. How can you avoid something that manufacturers put in products and do not list?

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Re: Time for us to all get our orange glasses off.

[2]
Dec 26, 2018, 9:31 AM

did you see Dabo's statement or press conference??? Full on denial mode. Hair products??? It was an awful look. He should have just said we are waiting on the B samples.

One week he doesnt know "BIG" words like lament, and then goes on to be an expert on Ostratine??? This will only lead to negative recruiting and proof that his walk doesnt match his talk.

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Re: Time for us to all get our orange glasses off.


Dec 26, 2018, 9:36 AM

Thank goodness you and your impressive pulse are here to set him straight.

2022 purple level member flag link

I am not fully buying the accidental part.


Dec 26, 2018, 9:37 AM

If it was one guy them maybe. You have three that tested for the identical item? It would be nice to know the whole story on that and how they got this in their systems. It appears you would have to go out of your way to get this into your system. When you have the ability to eat at a place like Clemson’s football complex where the availability is 24-7 serving foods that I am comfortable has been checked for compliance.

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The Artist Formerly Known as "The FIGHTINGDABOS"


This Post will no doubt gain....


Dec 26, 2018, 10:08 AM

A “little” traction ???????

??????

Go Tigers!!

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"HAS THE WHOLE WORLD GONE CRAZY!?".


Dec 26, 2018, 10:44 AM

https://goo.gl/images/2n441N

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Not hypocritical....


Dec 26, 2018, 10:50 AM

No issues when it was Cain or Watkins who clearly did something wrong.

This sounds like a case of a faultless act on the part of Clemson and the guys.

No harm in calling it like it is.

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COOT!!***


Dec 26, 2018, 11:12 AM



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Re: Time for us to all get our orange glasses off.


Dec 26, 2018, 1:41 PM

I don't agree with you. In the past suspensions for failed drug tests, people owned up or it was known what they had taken based on their own confession or evidence presented by others. And in that case there was intent to commit wrong doing.

In this case, it seems no one kjnows what caused it and it is very suspicious. You would think that with 3 of them triggering the same chemical, they could figure out what it was if it was a common supplement being taken by the 3 of them even if they had no idea of the ingredients being illicit.

But it makes absolutely no sense to punish someone especially end their career when they always intended to abide by the rules.

I'd honestly rather them announce that they've found out what caused it so that we know this is legit and fair even if it wasn't intentional as opposed to them saying multiple times that they have no idea how this could have happened and it just sit like that with the punishment in effect, no action to correct due to no knowledge of any cause and ruining these young players college careers and memories on such a horrible turn of events.

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Re: Time for us to all get our orange glasses off.


Dec 26, 2018, 5:13 PM

yubyub said:

In the past suspensions for failed drug tests, people owned up or it was known what they had taken based on their own confession or evidence presented by others. And in that case there was intent to commit wrong doing.





Did Lance Armstrong own up to it in the beginning? It was not known he took anything over the course of dozens of tests over many years, until the test existed where he got popped.

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