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Legend [19586]
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Here's a PSU comparison
Jul 19, 2012, 4:18 PM
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If PSU should be punished by the NCAA for the crimes of Sandusky so should Pitt for Michael Haywood assaulting his wife. Isn't that disgusting as well?
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Hall of Famer [21579]
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Did Pitt cover it up for a decade while he beat her?
Jul 19, 2012, 4:20 PM
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to protect their image and so recruiting wouldn't suffer?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Did Pitt cover it up for a decade while he beat her?
Jul 19, 2012, 4:22 PM
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1. PSU didn't cover it up, 3 men did. This wasn't a university decision. And doing so is not a NCAA violation but a crime, outside of the ncaa jurisdiction as is Michael Haywood's crime.
2. Saying PSU would have hurt in recruiting is hypothetical. They're doing ok now even after the worse case.
3. PSU did exactly what pitt did. Got rid of the criminals.
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Hall of Famer [24802]
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14 YEARS LATE!!!!***
Jul 19, 2012, 4:24 PM
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Legend [19586]
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Re: 14 YEARS LATE!!!!***
Jul 19, 2012, 4:26 PM
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The BOT ousted them as soon as they found it!!!...14 years was part of the cover up by 3 men....not PSU, not their BOT...not students, athletes or alum....3 MEN
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Hall of Famer [21579]
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3 men that WORKED and used the University....
Jul 19, 2012, 4:29 PM
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can we say lack of control?...they should get the death penalty for 5 years while they work to rebuild their image.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: 3 men that WORKED and used the University....
Jul 19, 2012, 5:19 PM
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lack of control sure, but death penalty? You're just out for blood....death penalty solves nothing and doesn't even punish the wrong doers...
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CU Guru [1163]
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Re: Did Pitt cover it up for a decade while he beat her?
Jul 19, 2012, 4:32 PM
[ in reply to Re: Did Pitt cover it up for a decade while he beat her? ] |
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The three mean at PSU are in positions to make decisions for PSU. Their decisions were to protect the football program and university reputation at the expense of the victims and potential victims. They acted AS PSU and had the power to do so.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Did Pitt cover it up for a decade while he beat her?
Jul 19, 2012, 5:20 PM
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and they're gone....charge them, convict them...fine...but why punish PSU players and students/alum?
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All-In [29036]
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The answer to that question is rather simple
Jul 19, 2012, 7:36 PM
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I'm not advocating for the death penalty, but if the question is "why punish the players, students, and alumni?" the answer is for helping create an environment with a lack of oversight where one man and those close to him could coverup such an issue.
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Legend [16259]
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Young boys were getting a$$ raped in PSU's football
Jul 19, 2012, 10:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: Did Pitt cover it up for a decade while he beat her? ] |
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locker room for a decade after people in a position to stop it chose not to. The enablers stretched throughout all positions in athletic and school power. They didn't stop it in order to protect the football program. This is well within the NCAA's purview.
Were this kind of thing to happen in the Chemistry department, would it be a topic on Tigernet and other collegiate sports environments for months on end? No. Why? Because it is tied to NCAA sports and happened among the college sports family.
I was a huge Joe Paterno fan and defended him last year in what I felt was his right to finish out the season until the facts behind the allegations came out. The truth is out. Paterno not only broke the trust he had established with his school, his peers and his fans, he broke the trust of human decency that victims of this type of crime must rely on, as did others in the program whose interests were dominated by protecting PSU football over the basic tenets of human decency.
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CU Medallion [67851]
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Re: Here's a PSU comparison- they have caught three
Jul 19, 2012, 4:42 PM
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I would bet a lot more at PSU were involved and covered up on this
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Orange Blooded [3788]
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Re: Here's a PSU comparison- they have caught three
Jul 19, 2012, 7:33 PM
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You can't punish based on conjecture...
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110%er [8957]
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Did Pitt provide a venue to for him to assault his wife
Jul 19, 2012, 4:44 PM
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and cover it up?
You said earlier that PSU cover up might not have hurt recruiting. I provide you with this article about Mike Haywood's firing:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/559083-pitt-fires-michael-haywood-could-rich-rodriguez-be-a-good-fit
"In a matter of a little over two weeks, Haywood watched a recruiting class that Wannstedt had as the 21st-ranked in the nation dwindle down to only nine recruits. Half of them will likely decommit after the next coach is named.
That impact alone could be felt for a few years."
Still think PSU recruiting would not have been affected?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Did Pitt provide a venue to for him to assault his wife
Jul 19, 2012, 5:22 PM
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No, if it's not affected by what has transpired, it certainly wouldn't have been affected by them doing the "right" thing....they're no less than 15 in any recruiting agencies ranks....
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All-In [25393]
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I believed from the onset that it would not be a question of
Mar 22, 2022, 7:32 AM
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"if" the NCAA would become involved, but rather "when." My sense, rightly or wrongly, was that the NCAA would consider the entire, ugly matter a gross slur not only on the Penn State athletic programs, but on college athletics generally, and, thus, would deem its involvement mandatory. Obviously, the NCAA has correctly advised that it intends to await the outcome of possible/probable criminal investigations, but I fully expect the NCAA to act...and to act quite severely.
Does that mean the "death penalty?" Honestly, that is moot. Some would argue the fairness of such, as regards current and prospective athletes. Unfortunately, life sometimes seems unfair, as often an entire group is made to pay a price for the sins of a member(s). The opposing argument would be that the entire Penn State community, including the victims, have had to pay a terrible price already, and further punishment by the NCAA would seem "piling on," so to speak.
I have tried my best all my life to refrain from climbing on bully pulpits, wagging and pointing fingers at others. Thus, I have chosen to allow appropriate authorities to investigate and resolve these matters while believing that all people must sympathize with and support the "real" victims.
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MVP [508]
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Re: Here's a PSU comparison
Jul 19, 2012, 5:30 PM
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Yeah, that is really close. Haywood was fired the next day and the charges were dismissed. Penn State did not disclose the facts of numerous young boys being raped. They deserve to have two seasons taken away.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Here's a PSU comparison
Jul 19, 2012, 7:21 PM
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PSU tired them as soon as they found out too. The problem is you guys are equating 3 men to the whole of PSU
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All-In [29036]
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No, not really
Jul 19, 2012, 7:33 PM
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There is certainly an argument to be made that the NCAA doesn't have any real jurisdiction to pass judgment on this issue. I can see that viewpoint.
But to suggest that somehow PSU is blameless in this mess is simply untrue. Read the special investigation findings. The entire system of notifications, oversight, and management was setup and run in such away that it ALLOWED 3 men to coverup something of this magnitude. And to be clear it was more than 3 men who had a role in it.
I'm not arguing for the death penalty for PSU, but to suggest that the 3 highest ranking individuals in PSU football covering up the issue isn't somehow equatable to PSU football doing it is simply misguided.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: No, not really
Jul 19, 2012, 7:36 PM
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Ive said in every thread that they should be on probation. I don't even like taking away scholarships from them but their punishment should be similar to that of USUCKs
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All-In [29036]
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LOL, probation?
Jul 19, 2012, 7:38 PM
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Probation is absolutely 100% useless.
Probation from what?
Unless you mean a bowl ban, and then you are starting to actually talk about something that makes a difference.
NCAA probation is meaningless. Alabama was on probation, reported infractions, and simply had their probation extended. What is the purpose od probation then?
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Legend [19586]
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Re: LOL, probation?
Jul 19, 2012, 7:42 PM
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What rules did they break dealing of bowl ban? What are you guys so blood hungry to punish those kids? And others who were blindsided by this?
Their football rule breaking stops at LOIC. Should be punished as so. They didn't gain any competitive advantage and even assuming they retained their normal recruiting prowess is hypothetical at best.
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All-In [29036]
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I'm not out for blood here
Jul 19, 2012, 7:48 PM
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But no matter what the infraction the NCAA probation is the positively meaningless. It does nothing. It deters nothing. It punishes no one. It is simply totally useless.
And as I said I can see the argument that the NCAA has no business in this discussion. I don't know the bylaws or if they are written in such a way that LOIC applies. But I could buy the argument that the NCAA should stay out of it.
But, this is FAR different a situation than when a coach breaks a law and is promptly fired. To suggest they are the same seems to me to show that you either haven't read or don't believe the report from the special investigators. PSU tried to CYA themselves, or more accurately 3 of the most important men on campus tried to cover the school's reputation at the expense of children.
Let that sink in for a second. It's not bloodlust to read that, think about it, and note that this situation is considerably more deserving of drastic reaction than the analogy you tried to draw.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: I'm not out for blood here
Jul 19, 2012, 8:20 PM
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But punishing just to Punish is crazy. There's no one left there to punish. I could understand if it was booster and alum related recruiting violations but come on? They're all either in jail, recluse of dead. If they punish PSU harshly they're only setting and example with a show of muscle and the. It goes from 9 victims to thousands. It solves nothing. Only hurts others.
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110%er [6321]
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so, if...
Jul 19, 2012, 9:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: No, not really ] |
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if the owner of a large company commits a crime and is forced to close his company, aren't the employees and patrons punished? The psu case is no different. It all starts at the top and trickles down. The men that did not report this represented the University and acted as the decision makers, thus putting the entire university at risk. They broke the code of ethics for a university as well as did Paterno broke the NCAA code of ethics for coaches. Clemson was punished for the acts of a few people that committed the errors.
As appointed representatives of Penn St, they disrecarded the Clery Act, that mandates that all crimes on a college campus be reported. This would fall under lack of institutional control, especially since all of this was done by people in the athletic department.It was a crime that was hidden by the athletic department.
First thing that needs to be done is to take away the devil coach's wins during that time period.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: so, if...
Jul 19, 2012, 10:07 PM
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The law wouldn't shut it down unless the company itself committed a crime. If it fails it's just a side effect. Many owners have gone to jail and companies stayed open.
Message was edited by: CUAtTheFinishLine®
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110%er [6321]
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Re: so, if...
Jul 19, 2012, 11:26 PM
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and many have not.
Penn St may have to give their selves the death penalty. They did not abide by the Clery Act, which is controlled by the Dept of Education. The Dept of Education can cut off federal funds to the school. The Dept of Education disbursed over 476 million in federal student loans to Penn St. The football brought in 50 million. If Penn St loses that Federal money..the school will go under. If they give themselves a heafty penalty in football, the DOE is more likely not to cut those funds.
John Infante, an NCAA bylaws expert who also runs his own blog and writes for the NCAA, says Education Department sanctions could be in play.
“The death penalty for football and major Clery Act sanctions are the same thing, just different in degree,” Infante wrote on his Twitter account. “Students have to transfer, people lose their jobs, the character of the institution changes for a long time if not forever.”
“At this point I still think the odds of the school being shut down or crippled by the DOE is more likely,” Infante also said.
More likely, the Penn State board of trustees could act to sanction the school. Under NCAA rules, self-imposed sanctions at colleges can be harsher that those issued by the NCAA.
The board commissioned the Freeh report and promised action. Under this scenario, Penn State would wait for the conclusion of the Curley and Schultz perjury trial, and issue its own sanctions for the following football season.
Those acts could include the suspension of the football program, a cut in football scholarships, and a ban on bowl appearances.
Self-sanctions could also head off any stricter actions by the Education Department or the NCAA.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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Penn St put those people in charge therefore they
Jul 19, 2012, 10:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: Here's a PSU comparison ] |
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are responsible for their actions.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Penn St put those people in charge therefore they
Jul 19, 2012, 10:08 PM
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Which is LOIC.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with what LOIC is***
Jul 19, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Legend [19586]
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Re: Sorry, I'm unfamiliar with what LOIC is***
Jul 19, 2012, 10:14 PM
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Lack of institutional control.
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Orange Blooded [4988]
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ok, gotcha!***
Jul 19, 2012, 10:16 PM
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Legend [15914]
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If PSU wanted to do the decent thing, they would
Jul 19, 2012, 8:29 PM
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would self-impose a 1 year ban on the football program with intention of restarting the program the following fall. Let all recruits out of their LOI and current players to transfer with out the "sit a year" penalty.
NCAA could approve it for those players.
It takes a bad situation out of NCAA hands, players are not punished, and PSU can actually look like they are attempting to show remorse.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: If PSU wanted to do the decent thing, they would
Jul 19, 2012, 8:31 PM
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If you don't think that punishes players and the current coaches you're mistaking. It punishes thousands of people due to the idiocy and criminal act of 3 men. that's still wrong.
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Legend [15914]
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I'm a critical care nurse. If I exhibit poor judgement that
Jul 19, 2012, 9:47 PM
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results in the harm of multiple people and my bosses try to cover it up, my intensive care unit can be shut down. That harms my co-workers, help staff (janitors, respiratory therapists, etc..), and the community that now doesn't have access to emergency care related to medical and trauma issues.
Should they not shut down my ICU, thus ensuring future patients' safety, until the hospital can clearly illustrate how these things will be avoided in the future?
It is not just about punishment, but also about getting it right in the future.. even if those who are not guilty experience consequences for those who are. If you cannot understand that than you either not being honest with yourself or have skewed priorities.
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Legend [19586]
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Re: I'm a critical care nurse. If I exhibit poor judgement that
Jul 19, 2012, 10:09 PM
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Who will shut it down?
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Legend [15914]
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The Joint Commission. If you are not licensed by
Jul 20, 2012, 12:13 AM
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The Joint Commission, you are not eligible for medicare reimbursement. Also the state government can shut you down immediately.
Everybody answers to somebody... indiividuals, hospitals, and major academic institutions.
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