Replies: 71
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All-In [36410]
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Why did the current student govt kids
Mar 7, 2019, 7:37 PM
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Even come to Clemson? It’s not like Tillman and Calhoun were named in 2018. They are either stupid or came to Clemson to be radicals. No other options
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Legend [16186]
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Re: Why did the current student govt kids
Mar 7, 2019, 7:44 PM
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Current Clemson students,generally speaking, are smarter and got better grades than old time Clemson student (including me.) Current Clemson students might have an idea and goal of making American better in the future than it was in the past. In many, perhaps most, areas that is not a great challenge and it is certainly achievable.
Wishing for some past imaginary better time seems dumb to me, so I'm happy about the current effort to express a solid opinion by the part of the kids in student government.
FWIW, I consider myself to be a conservative voter. I am a southerner by birth and I'm 100% proud to be a Clemson graduate. And I am old enough to have marched on Bowman as a requirement for graduation.
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All-In [36410]
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Wasting energy and time renaming things
Mar 7, 2019, 8:26 PM
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Are sad and stupid. I have marched Bowman and a number of crap holes in this world and think there are far bigger things for these chuckleheads to work on. To judge history anachronistically would lead to our whole nation being renamed as it has historically been legal to imprison sodomists, homosexuals and interracial lovers. Heck we should ban God for some of the Old Testament teachings because they certainly offend modern sensibilities. Either rename everything and reboot or let old dogs lie, selective historical vigilantism is idiotic and pathetic at best.
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CU Medallion [57164]
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It makes them feel better.
Mar 7, 2019, 9:04 PM
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This generation is all about the feelz.
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110%er [5809]
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Re: It makes them feel better.
Mar 8, 2019, 8:25 AM
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Yep. It’s why they have “safe spaces.” So they can feel all cozy and cuddly inside when their precious wittle hearts start hurting.
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Orange Blooded [4276]
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Re: It makes them feel better.
Mar 9, 2019, 1:32 PM
[ in reply to It makes them feel better. ] |
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Maybe enough of this volunteer military and DRAFT a few of the "feel-gooders" and watch the '60s RADICAL come out of the closet...
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Orange Blooded [2233]
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Re: Wasting energy and time renaming things
Mar 8, 2019, 7:40 AM
[ in reply to Wasting energy and time renaming things ] |
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I unfortunately will get looped in with these clowns since I was born in 89 but I completely agree with you. Let the sleeping dog lie. Are they gonna want to change the history books in school next. The past isn’t all sunshine and rainbows. The best thing you can do is learn from the past and not make the same mistakes. Just because you try to suppress history and bury it doesn’t mean you will change it.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Wasting energy and time renaming things
Mar 8, 2019, 9:46 AM
[ in reply to Wasting energy and time renaming things ] |
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I think the leadership represents the lifestyle mentality.
People would rather LOOK good than produce. They work hard, but on the wrong things.
They'll work hard to look good on instagram, because that is what is stimulating to their drives. Unfortunately, they cant grasp the idea of driving a 15 year old beater and living in a $300 dump for a short time to save money and invest it for better luxury in the long term.
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CU Guru [1741]
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Hacw you actually read Tillman’s speeches to Congress?
Mar 8, 2019, 10:12 AM
[ in reply to Wasting energy and time renaming things ] |
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The man openly advocated lynching and disenfranchisement of blacks- many times. Ben Tillman was hardly a bistander of the time. He sincerely saw black Americans as sub-human and unworthy of the same rights as everyone else. He was not a good man with flaws, but rather an evil man who managed to accomplish a few good things.
He does not represent me and I hope he doesn’t represent you. Just because he helped get Clemson off the ground does not excuse his violent bigotry.
It’s time for the South to own the past, stop celebrating and protecting losers, and move on. If changing the name of buildings help accomplish that, then so be it.
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All-In [36410]
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If you are an ALUM and knowingly attended Clemson You Should
Mar 8, 2019, 11:31 AM
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give back your degree or go punish yourself for supporting it.
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CU Guru [1428]
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Re: If you are an ALUM and knowingly attended Clemson You Should
Mar 8, 2019, 1:42 PM
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If you want to have a discussion about it that's great. Let's have a discussion. But don't just disparage someone's comment because you disagree with them. Why don't you try actually saying why you disagree?
Who knows, if you put yourself in other shoes for a moment you might learn something new or at least gain some understanding.
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CU Guru [1741]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Hacw you actually read Tillman’s speeches to Congress?
Mar 9, 2019, 9:02 AM
[ in reply to Hacw you actually read Tillman’s speeches to Congress? ] |
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jefftger continues to be a blatant racist, hell bent on dividing our country instead of making it a better place for all. NOBODY sits around and cares what happened 200-300 years ago, but instead appreciates the great opportunities it offers to EVERYONE, even your racist self. Get over it and move on. Nobody wants to put up with your agenda as it is unproductive to all. YOU are the problem, so if we can resolve that huge problem and move on, the rest of us can just get along and enjoy AMERICA and CLEMSON. Why can't you just go away?
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Tiger Cub [10]
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Re: Hacw you actually read Tillman’s speeches to Congress?
Mar 9, 2019, 10:03 AM
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First, you seem to have a very loose grasp on what the term "racist" means. Second, MANY people care about what happened in the past. That's literally why all of us have to take multiple classes in history. Be careful, your white privilege is showing.
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Commissioner [986]
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Re: Hacw you actually read Tillman’s speeches to Congress?
Mar 9, 2019, 11:58 AM
[ in reply to Hacw you actually read Tillman’s speeches to Congress? ] |
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In a time when we try to protect leaders that are racist,divisive and sides with the enemy over their own Intel personnel.Wow who raised you?Your parents did a great job and thank you for your post.As a minority I agree its time for America to live up to its past.Thank you sir.
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Recruit [89]
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Re: Hacw you actually read Tillman’s speeches to Congress?
Mar 9, 2019, 1:09 PM
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Your ignorence is dangerous. Turn off the state sponsored propaganda and stop being used by those who don’t care about you. We are in this struggle together and share the same enemy which is afraid if we unit e against them. You need to wake up and understand who that enemy is and focus your energy on that.
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CU Guru [1574]
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Re: Why did the current student govt kids
Mar 7, 2019, 9:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why did the current student govt kids ] |
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Absolutely disagree that today’s students are smarter. They may have higher grades in high school and on the SAT but the grading standards have been lowered dramatically. Today’s dumbed down public education system is not producing a superior product in any area except athletics. What we are producing today is a generation of entitled brats who will ultimately destroy our system of government and our way of life. Enough with changing th names of buildings. It’s a slippery slope and once you start down it there is nowhere to stop. Pretty soon we will have to change the name of the State because South Carolinians fired the first shots of the Civil War. That clearly makes the entire state racist. As such, the very name “Carolina” makes the snow flakes uncomfortable so it must go. Why don’t we all just grow up and behave as responsible adults who strive to learn from past failures without trying to deny them. Better yet, why not save the political posts for a political site and leave this one for Clemson football? Go Tigers!
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CU Medallion [57164]
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They’re pretty sure they are super smart.
Mar 7, 2019, 9:06 PM
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Just ask them.
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CU Guru [1944]
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CU Guru [1679]
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Re: Why did the current student govt kids
Mar 8, 2019, 7:31 AM
[ in reply to Re: Why did the current student govt kids ] |
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These young kids are spoiled brats who know nothing about history and tradition...said every older generation ever.
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CU Guru [1741]
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You’ve reached the “every generation after me is crap” portion of life.
Mar 8, 2019, 10:26 AM
[ in reply to Re: Why did the current student govt kids ] |
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Meanwhile you’ll need these kids to invent the future and take care of you as you age.
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CU Guru [1878]
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Hard pass on that
Mar 8, 2019, 11:30 AM
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They can call us snowflakes while they rot away without our assistance.
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110%er [6091]
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this^^^
Mar 9, 2019, 12:48 PM
[ in reply to You’ve reached the “every generation after me is crap” portion of life. ] |
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I have had to put my life on hold to take care of my sick mother with cancer, but I don't mind, she was a good mother and raised me well. but if some of the guys in this post were my parents and actually acted like this in public (probably not, they are keyboard warriors) then I would tell them to wipe their own ####.
.....and I fully expect my pulse to go down after this, I dont care
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Legend [17629]
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Why did the current student govt kids
Mar 8, 2019, 8:40 AM
[ in reply to Re: Why did the current student govt kids ] |
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I would like to point out that being educated does not in fact make one smart. I have met many an educated fool over my lifetime. My son questioned me on this opinion when he was young but now at 28 he gets it after undergrad at CU and grad school at UGA.
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Legend [18133]
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Thank you for reminding me of my grandfather
Mar 8, 2019, 9:17 AM
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"Educated fools" was his favorite saying.
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Tiger Cub [10]
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Re: Thank you for reminding me of my grandfather
Mar 8, 2019, 10:23 AM
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So was Coolio's
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110%er [7148]
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"Current Clemson students, generally speaking, are smarter"
Mar 9, 2019, 10:00 AM
[ in reply to Re: Why did the current student govt kids ] |
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I would venture to change the ending to this sentence with... but are easily manipulated, have lost their moral compass and live by their emotions. If you are generally speaking?
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All-American [560]
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Re: Why did the current student govt kids
Mar 9, 2019, 3:36 PM
[ in reply to Re: Why did the current student govt kids ] |
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Carefully worded & deceitfully disguised; I'll bottom line it: your reply reeks of fabrication throughout. Proclamation of a conservative ideology confirmed my suspicion. A frequently used technique, by the left, when seeking to sway opinion-Devious & underhanded-SOP for the left
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Oculus Spirit [83131]
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Legend [16058]
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Calhoun was the 7th Vice President of the USA
Mar 7, 2019, 8:14 PM
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There is no erasing that from history. We can't disown all of our racist founding fathers.
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All-TigerNet [14477]
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Re: Calhoun was the 7th Vice President of the USA
Mar 7, 2019, 8:15 PM
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give calhoun the ball
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Oculus Spirit [83131]
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CU Guru [1878]
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There's no logical argument against this that isn't
Mar 8, 2019, 8:25 AM
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'I'm gonna miss seeing the names of racists I'm used to seeing, my life can't handle change'
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: There's no logical argument against this that isn't
Mar 8, 2019, 10:05 AM
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Yeah, I do think we should change Tillman.
Yeah, a LOT of people back in Tillman's day were racists, particularly among the political leaders and other leaders in society. We cant rename every building or remove every statue because people may have held racist opinions back in those days.
But Tillman was a special case. For crying out loud, the guy was the leader of a violent militia that HE STARTED WHILE HE WAS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL which roamed the countryside lynching every black person in sight, and anyone that resisted his militia would get gunned down along with the black people they were brutally murdering in broad daylight.
That is a particularly special and heinous example and I absolutely do not want my beloved University to continue to carry his namesake.
And I'm a "fully automatic weapons and rocket launchers should be legal to civilians without a background check" libertarian for crying out loud.
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All-TigerNet [10958]
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Re: Who wants to erase history? I’d just be for renaming
Mar 8, 2019, 9:45 AM
[ in reply to Who wants to erase history? I’d just be for renaming ] |
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I agree that changing the names of buildings does not change history and history cannot be changed. I do not believe any building name should be changed. Without history and learning from the mistakes, nothing will change and the same problems will resurface.
Leaving the building names as they are is a reminder of the past and will continue to the conversation at the forefront and help prevent repeats of the past. Changing everything and hiding history only encourages everyone to slowly forget which leads to complacency and turning ones eyes when it happens again.
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CU Guru [1428]
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Re: Who wants to erase history? I’d just be for renaming
Mar 8, 2019, 1:48 PM
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I don't disagree entirely with your point but I look at changing the name as a way to heal. Acknowledge the wrongs of the past and say we're better than that. Ultimately, having a building named after someone is a Form of veneration, a sign of respect. In the same same it signifies that, it also signifies the opposite to student of color.
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Legend [19610]
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Orange Blooded [4424]
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Re: I actually agree with you. Tillman wasn't even associated
Mar 8, 2019, 9:10 AM
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If it weren't for Tillman there may have never been a Clemson University.
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Associate AD [805]
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Don't try to confuse them with facts!
Mar 8, 2019, 9:23 AM
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Look, lots of people did things that this era would not approve of. It is the SAME for EVERY generation as values change. If every generation tried to cleanse the past, there would be nothing left.
Tillman was a raging racist, we all know that. We also know that without him there would be no Clemson. For that matter, there would be no SC State, either. Ironically, because he believed in "separate but equal," helped SC State get started, too.
People are neither all good, nor all bad. We are all a mix of both. Judging past generations by today's values fails and is a very bad idea.
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110%er [6091]
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"seperate but equal"
Mar 9, 2019, 12:52 PM
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is that why he supported lynching black people? because if he did believe in "seperate but equal" then he would have lynched white people too.....but he didn't
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Orange Blooded [2013]
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Re: Don't try to confuse them with facts!
Mar 9, 2019, 1:38 PM
[ in reply to Don't try to confuse them with facts! ] |
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Here is a direct quote from Ben Tillman: "terrorizing the Negroes at the first opportunity by letting them provoke trouble and then having the whites demonstrate their superiority by killing as many of them as was justifiable."
But please, continue with your "facts" about how be believed in separate but equal.
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All-Pro [697]
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Re: I was raised in Edgefield, Tillman’s home county, but
Mar 8, 2019, 11:50 AM
[ in reply to I was raised in Edgefield, Tillman’s home county, but ] |
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you realize without Tillman as gov there would have never been a Clemson College, and fwiw his views were no more 'racist" than those of Lincoln, and yet old dishonest Abe killed hundreds of thousands, I live in Edgefield, wife to a ST grad,
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CU Guru [1154]
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Re: Why did the current student govt kids
Mar 7, 2019, 8:56 PM
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Changing names of buildings or colleges or cities will do nothing to improve the lives of Americans. Those are political maneuvers by the habitually offended to gain attention and relevancy. Let's deal with real issues, not what someone 150-200 years ago thought about societal issues in a different time. Renaming buildings or colleges will only benefit the companies that make the signs on those buildings.
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Orange Blooded [2140]
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Re: Why did the current student govt kids
Mar 8, 2019, 7:42 AM
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I absolutely agree that changing building names just for the sake of change is silly. But Tillman Hall was originally Main Hall and was changed well after the university was founded. Any time something like that is done it is done to make a point. When Main Halls name was changed they were making a point that may have been relevant for them back then however misguided the reasons may have been. It has already been changed once so who are we to stand in the way of a second change? If we were changing the original name of Main Hall I would certainly be against it.
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CU Guru [1878]
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Except for the Americans who now don't have to view
Mar 8, 2019, 8:25 AM
[ in reply to Re: Why did the current student govt kids ] |
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a symbol of hate every time they walk by a building. Those Americans' lives are improved.
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Associate AD [805]
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Re: Except for the Americans who now don't have to view
Mar 8, 2019, 9:25 AM
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Unless you are tearing down the building, there would be no real "removal of a symbol." The words "Tillman Hall" are extremely small compared to the building. The building is iconic, so try to tear it down and watch what happens...
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Letterman [285]
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Re: Except for the Americans who now don't have to view
Mar 8, 2019, 10:03 AM
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Who is tearing down the building? If you rename the building in 5 years students would be calling it by its new name.
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Letterman [285]
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CU Guru [1660]
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Re: Except for the Americans who now don't have to view
Mar 8, 2019, 2:12 PM
[ in reply to Except for the Americans who now don't have to view ] |
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to use your logic, looking at the ground anywhere in the south should invoke the same emotions. I don't have a horse in this fight so I am agnostic to the naming but some of the logic here is astounding.... in Israel they leave every symbol of the past in place as reminders to the present and to the future of the past, it makes them all more aware, you drive down a road and there is a Russian Tank with worn out Egyptian markings on the side of the road to remind them... we can learn from them about trying erase the past.
We need to learn from the past so as to not repeat it.... thats progress.
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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Re: Except for the Americans who now don't have to view
Mar 9, 2019, 10:21 AM
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yes, in Israel you can drive down the road and see Russian tanks with Egyptian markings. That's because the Israelis BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF THE EGYPTIANS and they commemorate the victory. You do not drive down the roads in Germany and pass Adolf Hitler Convention Center, or Reinhardt Heydrich Hall. There's a really good reason for that. The same reason that we need to rename Tillman.
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CU Guru [1660]
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Re: Except for the Americans who now don't have to view
Mar 9, 2019, 1:24 PM
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don't ever tell an Israeli that those are commemorative, they don't commemorate that, they leave it there as reminders, visible reminders of the past. I really don't care about the name of Tillman Hall... if they were to name it back to Main Hall as it originally was I'm fine with that. All I am stating is you cannot eliminate history and no one should be advocating for revisionist history. If its that big a deal why did these very same students choose to attend or did they get 'woke' one day and decide to become SJW... after 70+ years without any issues (that I am aware of), suddenly in 2019 it's offensive. I'm sure there are way better things for student government to prioritize than the name of a building... great history lesson here but what does it change? Nothing.... where does it stop? How much are you good with?
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CU Guru [1907]
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Re: Why did the current student govt kids
Mar 8, 2019, 7:59 AM
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JMO here. I think the thing that often gets over looked in this debate is that in that era when things were built and named the folks that were movers and shakers were the rich and powerful here in the South. They all had a similar view of things and possibly the same issues as far as race. Poor oppressed folks were not the moving force behind getting Universities built ,it was the landed class. This is true even up North in many cases but it glossed over since all the racists have to be down South( Snicker as there are places up North that make the South look wonderful).
Do what you want with re-naming stuff, it just seems like a huge waste of time,money and effort. It will cause divisions among CU supporters and in the end does nothing to improve anything, it will just make some folks feel better.
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110%er [7723]
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I don't give a rat's @ss if they change it or not
Mar 8, 2019, 8:11 AM
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I hope they just make a decision and get over it. The young people b*tching and the old people b*tching about them b*tching is played out.
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Associate AD [805]
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Here's an idea we should really focus on -
Mar 8, 2019, 9:30 AM
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Instead of renaming building on campus, why don't we seek to stop the developers who are destroying the city and its charm *cough* Tom Winkopp *cough*? When I come to Clemson, I don't think of how evil it is to walk by Tillman Hall or the Calhoun Mansion. However, I do become sad and angry driving downtown and around the city.
I'm all for sensible development, but putting multi-story buildings in downtown kills what makes Clemson special.
BTW, they should deny building permits to those responsible for this ugly construction until they do something about the 'Stro. It saddens me that this generation of kids don't get the experience of seeing a $1 movie at the 'Stro... but Netflix has killed those experiences everywhere.
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All-In [47750]
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The 'Stro will become a micro-brewery.
Mar 8, 2019, 9:47 AM
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Was announced recently
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110%er [7167]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 10142
Joined: 6/27/07
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hopefully they'll keep one of the theaters active***
Mar 8, 2019, 10:02 AM
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CU Guru [1907]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Re: Here's an idea we should really focus on -
Mar 8, 2019, 9:49 AM
[ in reply to Here's an idea we should really focus on - ] |
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If as planned the undergrad student body rises to 30K the terrible buildings will only increase.
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Tiger Cub [10]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Re: Here's an idea we should really focus on -
Mar 8, 2019, 10:17 AM
[ in reply to Here's an idea we should really focus on - ] |
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But you're (most likely) white. People of color do think about how awful those men were when they walk past those places. Try to think outside your own perspective.
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CU Guru [1878]
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Remember where you are - the most bigoted sports forum around
Mar 8, 2019, 11:33 AM
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I appreciate what you're saying, but this forum is full of unapologetic white nationalists so it's going to fall on deaf ears.
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Tiger Cub [10]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 6
Joined: 2/3/17
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Re: Remember where you are - the most bigoted sports forum around
Mar 9, 2019, 10:06 AM
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I agree. It is quite disconcerting.
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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Joined: 1/4/07
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Re: Remember where you are - the most bigoted sports forum around
Mar 9, 2019, 10:25 AM
[ in reply to Remember where you are - the most bigoted sports forum around ] |
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i don't think it's necessarily White Nationalism. It's just an extraordinary level of white entitlement and privilege. "Well, when I was here in 1954, I didn't get worked up about Tillman Hall being named after the leader of the Red Shirts," says a white guy who didn't spend the 1950's trying to figure out what restaurants he would be allowed to eat in on road trips.
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Tiger Cub [10]
TigerPulse: 92%
Posts: 6
Joined: 2/3/17
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Re: Why did the current student govt kids
Mar 8, 2019, 10:20 AM
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Yes, but Old Main was REnamed Tillman Hall in 1946, right around the start of the Civil Rights Movement. Say what you will, but I think that speaks volumes. It's a similar act to putting the Confederate Battle Flag atop the State House during the Civil Rights Movement. It's a clear message: "People of color, you are unwelcome here."
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110%er [9667]
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Joined: 9/10/99
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Not attacking Cof17 - I'm genuinely curious...
Mar 8, 2019, 10:47 AM
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Is "Clemson" next? TG Clemson was a slave-owner and served on the Confederate side in the Civil War.
I do agree with your point about civil rights era "statements" being made by erecting Civil War memorials of some sort. I still need to ponder whether 1946 fits in the era...
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Tiger Cub [10]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Joined: 2/3/17
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Re: Not attacking Cof17 - I'm genuinely curious...
Mar 8, 2019, 11:26 AM
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That's a fair question. I'm torn, but my initial reaction is: TG Clemson wasn't a member of violent para-military organization killing African Americans like Tillman. I recognise that many people fought for the Confederacy and, of course, they (including my ancestors) were treasonous. [This is just a stream of consciousness at this point as I try to wrestle with this]. I'll have to keep thinking on this. Thanks for raising the question.
As far as the Civil Rights Era goes, many historians (thought of course there's debate because...well, they're historians) see the Era starting soon after the War ended. However, the apex of the Era didn't start until Brown v. Board of Education.
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Orange Blooded [2663]
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Joined: 1/4/07
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All-Conference [439]
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Re: Why did the current student govt kids
Mar 8, 2019, 10:37 AM
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First and foremost I’m as against the “safe spaces” and the generation of the offended as anyone.
But I am part of this generation and it always makes me laugh when the older generations call us entitled, and spoiled and whatever.
YOU RAISED THIS GENERATION!
You have to take some blame for all this crap
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110%er [7148]
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Joined: 9/19/10
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I'm willing to take share of the blame... (raised 3 kids)
Mar 9, 2019, 11:16 AM
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just glad you see the "crap" for what it is.. shows a sign of true maturity.
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CU Guru [1904]
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Joined: 10/14/12
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You seem to be the radical***
Mar 8, 2019, 11:15 PM
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Orange Blooded [3673]
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Joined: 12/27/18
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A large portion of the student body are yankee transplants
Mar 9, 2019, 12:40 PM
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who not only DONT belong here.. but stick around afterwards and leech even more off our beautiful state. Founders are rolling in their graves.
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All-TigerNet [10346]
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Joined: 11/22/03
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Re: Why did the current student govt kids
Mar 9, 2019, 1:34 PM
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You are seeing the product of crappy parenting and lack of responsibility from these kids. They don't know how to cope when they whine and don't get their way. This is our future glad I won't be around to see the next generation totally #### this country.
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CU Medallion [50635]
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Joined: 12/3/98
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because you can only obtain true diversity
Mar 9, 2019, 3:56 PM
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by becoming monolithic
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