Re: What passage?

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Apr 4, 2022, 12:36 PM

That's from John and what a whopper of a line. So much packed into that little dandy that seems so innocuous.

The context is that Jesus is consoling his apostles and preparing them for life without him (at least as a physical entity). Keep in mind he had only been preaching for about 3 years at most (2 passovers) after his baptism by another John, his possible cousin. And now the Sanhedrin (the Jewish Court) and Romans were coming for him.

The dual firestorms that little comment caused over time would in part fracture the church 300 years later.

First, look closely at what he says...

"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you." -14:20

Jesus sets himself up as a divine bridge between God and us. God/Jesus-Jesus/Us-Us/Jesus. Note that there is no Us/God, or "God in us, us in God."

But even the possibility that we might be fractionally divine (through Jesus being in us) was kinda radical. The Jewish tradition was a hard line between human and divine. Never shall the two mix, ya know? That leads to bad hybrids, like the Nephilim.

Think about what God said in the Garden of Eden, and what his greatest fear was...

"And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” Gen 3:22 NIV

The serpent called it out even before God admitted it...“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Gen 3:5

And we were so close to getting immortality, till we got booted out.

So one reading of that Genesis line could be that we have some of the intelligence or wisdom of God, (which ties in with angels bringing us various skills from Heaven, like astronomy or cosmetics), but not the KEY element of divinity...immortality. Take note of that because we will see it again in Mesopotamia - gods denying man immortality.

So the fact that Jesus was saying "I'm in you and I'm part divine" was a far cry from Judaism, and most of Near East tradition. But it fits right in with a lot of Eastern traditions, where divinity runs though all things...man, god, nature, rocks, everybody.

The second firestorm that phrase caused would be over the nature of Jesus himself. Without getting too far down the road just yet, there was a church splitting rift over whether Jesus was equal to his Father, or subordinate to his Father, as a son. And, where God fit into the whole Father/Son thing?

The fact that Jesus calls God "Father" was used by the "subordinate" camp to defend their position. How can a son, who is created by a father, be equal to a father? If he's equal then he's not a son, he's something else - maybe a brother.

Jesus goes on to further highlight the distinction:

"These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me." -14:24

and again:

"...I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me." -14:31

Ultimately, the Church would settle on a hybrid solution...the Trinity. Jesus is himself, an individual entity, but he is also part God, and of equal stature along with the Father and the Holy Ghost. But that didn't jive with those who saw Jesus, by his own words, clearly subordinate himself to his Father. So they went off on their own and formed their own Church.

All that historical impact packed into one little comment.

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The Book of John was focused more on the specific divinity of Christ than the three testimonies which precedes John in the New Testament it was only that, due to plain words which do not require the reader to exert any reason or logic. Like Popeye:

Not Doyle. I mean the Sailor

Still, within Matt, Mark and Luke the evidence proving Jesus' divinity is there. One sure proof was Jesus' ability to read a man's heart, to know the rich young ruler trusted in his riches too much to put God first in his life, to know the sins of the woman at the well. These characteristics, according to our record, the Bible, not common to angels or prophets. Jesus had the power over death and spoke that he did what he did so that those who witnessed would believe. Only God can do those things.

While he was subject to God during his years on earth he now sits at God's right hand and God is serving him in that The Father is 'putting all things under his footstool,' preparing Christ's reign over them.

But, imo, the need for God to be three is His dedication to me in that His Spirit lives in my heart, abiding, residing and living there always, sometimes on the throne there made holy by the blood of God in the flesh when he gave his life to cleanse that throne. God is the Almighty, so is Christ, proven in that he reads our hearts, so is God's Spirit as he resides there. By that is he a personal God to each of us. We can not claim we are led astray in bowing before idols and the religions of the heathen with Him so available to master each of us on a personal level.

Each has a function. The functions are all performed by God in three forms suitable to each function. Their goals are one. That goal is, for now, to deliver man from sin and make us suitable to worship and serve God.

I grew up thinking that Christ was not equal to God. I suppose in all those sermons I heard it never occurred to me, but I was a child. When I got saved at age 19 I started reading the Bible. The first chapter of John came at me hard, it shook me and the understanding of how and why was a mystery I believed only by fresh, raw and complete faith. Over the years I 'unlearned,' much of what I believed when I was a child. Thinking back, this must have been most impactful since it opened understanding to much more about The LORD.

I wonder only how God could so love the unlovely and ask only that we believe in His saving grace.

'For it is God that worketh in us both to will and to do his good pleasure.'

That's paraphrased and the emphasis is mine.

I confess, the only thing I've ever done for God is to trust in him. I am a miserable failure otherwise.

Sorry, no popeye the sailor 'I yam what I yam,' gif available
Message was edited by: ClemsonTiger1988®

What passage?

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