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Orange Blooded [4096]
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Talking to an Immunologist about masks ...
Oct 7, 2020, 10:57 AM
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I simple test you can do to see if the mask you wear is effective.
Put on the type of mask you usually wear. Now light a candle (or match) and try to blow out the flame.
IF you can, your mask is not effective. The little virus buggers are so small, they go right through the mask mesh.
That dramatic video of exposure to breathing is misleading ... yes, masks stop LARGE particles BUT, virus is MUCH smaller, you need are very powerful microscope to see them. And you need a properly fitted N-95 mask to stop virus particles.
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All-In [26968]
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Nobody thinks the masks can filter out virus
Oct 7, 2020, 11:01 AM
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particles. Of course they don't. What they do is protect spit and mucus from exiting your mouth/nose and getting onto surfaces and people.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Nobody thinks the masks can filter out virus
Oct 7, 2020, 11:24 AM
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All-In [31907]
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Asymptomatic people still release spit when they talk***
Oct 7, 2020, 11:29 AM
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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anybody know the number of asymptomatic cases?***
Oct 7, 2020, 12:18 PM
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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Pre-symptomatic is also asymptomatic.***
Oct 7, 2020, 1:32 PM
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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mean slightly different things.......it'd be nice to have...
Oct 7, 2020, 1:44 PM
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numbers on BOTH, but we don't..........or not that I've seen.
you can be asymptomatic until you show symptoms and therefore you were pre-symptomatic.
then again you can be asymptomatic the entire time you have the virus.
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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That is correct. Completely asymptomatic transmission isn't
Oct 7, 2020, 1:46 PM
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as high as initially thought. It's the pre-symptomatic transmission that is causing so many issues with this virus, and why we need to wear masks.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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if just wearing masks is all it takes to get "normal" back..
Oct 7, 2020, 1:53 PM
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then sign me up, BUT as you know it's not just the masks that's screwing the normal out of everything.
I personally would like to know "the end game"? 34days?2years, 4years, 8 years?. The virus isn't just going to disappear if we all wore masks. Herd immunity is what it'll take.......masks don't "stop the spread" it slows the spread and delays the inevitable.
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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Neat.
Oct 7, 2020, 2:03 PM
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Didn't say that's all it takes to get normal back. And masks and social distancing are the biggest things to mitigating spread.
The vaccine is what we need.
Also if the spread is low enough that the virus is essentially stopped is another key component to moving towards the normality.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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Vaccine would be great too......but the a lot of the same...
Oct 7, 2020, 2:14 PM
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people screaming for a vaccine before "we get back to normal" are the SAME PEOPLE who are ANTI-VACCINE.........so explain that angle.
not so much masks, but the social distancing part is what is killing businesses/restaurants/institutions/etc....what's an acceptable business/jobs death rate before we get back to normal?
also, if one death is too many, which I agree it is, what's the magic daily death rate number have to be before we get back to normal? Getting it down to the regular flu rate I'm assuming would suffice.
Look, I get it.......it all sucks. I was fine with 2-3 months of quarantine and shutdown to give the med systems time, but how much is enough? What's the number? You CANNOT have a balance of social distancing/crowd mitigation and expect the jobs, economy, livelihoods to continue. It's easy for these Doctors/celebs/sports figures to say we need to quarantine for 2-3 years........they don't need money and maybe you don't either and that's great if you don't, but NORMAL has to return b/c PEOPLE drive business.
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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You're aggressively questioning me like I've made a
Oct 7, 2020, 3:14 PM
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stance on this, have fun buddy.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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I've been asking these questions to people regardless.......
Oct 7, 2020, 3:49 PM
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of their stance in COVID discussions. I ask the questions in hopes that SOMEBODY will know and answer them, but haven't received so much as an attempt at an answer.
Don't need to get defensive.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Neat.
Oct 7, 2020, 2:15 PM
[ in reply to Neat. ] |
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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I think a vaccine will make a tremendous difference.
Oct 7, 2020, 3:19 PM
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It'll be required by most people to take it, all military and government employees will have to take it.
Those percentages don't work that way to compare for improvement, more complex than that.
Honestly, I think it needs to be a free vaccine, and a kick start to opening things up.
Hard to use Sweden as a go-by whenever their population densities are so different, and their overall health beats ours in spades.
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Legend [15492]
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Lot o points [155948]
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All-In [26968]
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OK, nobody with any scientific authority.***
Oct 7, 2020, 11:40 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Fauci definitely didn’t think they were very useful***
Oct 7, 2020, 11:44 AM
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All-In [31907]
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I thought the initial guidance was based on supply and...
Oct 7, 2020, 1:06 PM
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prioritizing health care workers.
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All-In [34113]
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Yup.
Oct 7, 2020, 1:18 PM
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Dr. Fauci also mentioned that people who aren't accustomed to wearing masks tend to futz with them or not wear them properly, which can make them less effective. And we had less information at the beginning about how it was being transmitted.
Trumpers have a different understanding, which is that Dr. Fauci is crazy/a liar/a Deep State spy (hard to tell) while simultaneously having no problem with Trump predicting Covid would disappear by April, promoting HCQ and disinfectant injections, and declaring that Covid made him feel 20 years younger.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Yup.
Oct 7, 2020, 1:31 PM
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All-In [31907]
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I think you're mixing different statements and contexts....
Oct 7, 2020, 2:36 PM
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the initial guidance from the CDC was for the public not to wear masks so that they could be prioritized for health-care workers. Once the supply issue recovered to a reasonable level, the CDC then recommended masks for all.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: I think you're mixing different statements and contexts....
Oct 7, 2020, 2:54 PM
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All-In [31907]
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Curious if you read all of what you posted...
Oct 7, 2020, 3:17 PM
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the NPR article says the same as I did/do.
Initially, CDC didn't call for face masks due to supply concerns for healthcare workers and not thinking it was overly effective. The 2 things that changed were a relief in supply and new data about transmission and asymptomatic transmission.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: I thought the initial guidance was based on supply and...
Oct 7, 2020, 4:06 PM
[ in reply to I thought the initial guidance was based on supply and... ] |
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So in other words he lied to us or was he going off the WHO recommendations? It does matter but cloth face covering come on man. That is like having a condom with a hole in it.
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Oculus Spirit [97738]
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They decrease the initial dose, which impacts the
Oct 7, 2020, 11:33 AM
[ in reply to Nobody thinks the masks can filter out virus ] |
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progression of the disease. They call this the viral innoculum. It is proving to be important with covid, as it is with other viruses. This all or nothing mentality that exists with masks is the problem really. So covid is this size, and the mask filters down to this size. Since it will not stop 100% of the covid particles, masks are therefore useless. That logic is severely flawed.
Google viral innoculum and read up.
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All-In [26968]
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There's also this two extremes thing with this topic.
Oct 7, 2020, 12:03 PM
[ in reply to Nobody thinks the masks can filter out virus ] |
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It's not "masks work" or "masks don't work". It's not binary. It's about moving the needle on a spectrum of transmission likelihood.
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Lot o points [181005]
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Talking to a homeless drunk about religion...***
Oct 7, 2020, 11:31 AM
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Legend [17294]
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Consider large liquid droplets, aerosols and breath velocity
Oct 7, 2020, 11:56 AM
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Masks can favorably impact these factors of transmission.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Talking to an Immunologist about masks ...
Oct 7, 2020, 2:01 PM
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Well 3M Particulate Respirator 8210-masks are the ones everyone needs to be wearing. I have wore then for years. Cutting grass, painting, blow out electronics. They work for sure. They are called particulate respirators. I don't think cloth masks do much but they are more comfortable. If you are serious about protecting yourself buy these masks. I am no longer a 3M fan after they told Trump they will sell their masks to the highest bidder. You would think a US company would care about the welfare of the people in this country but I guess not.
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All-In [43774]
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Wait. You want to tell a US company who they can sell to
Oct 7, 2020, 2:39 PM
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and for how much? In the name of helping people?
Never pegged you for socialist tendencies, but here we are.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Wait. You want to tell a US company who they can sell to
Oct 7, 2020, 3:00 PM
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Well 3M should have kept the mask here for this country in time of need like the Wuhan Flu. Trump got other companies to make a lot of PPE for the good of the country but 3M was not one of them. I am not sure who they sold them to but if it was the Chinese well I will leave it at that.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Wait. You want to tell a US company who they can sell to
Oct 7, 2020, 4:12 PM
[ in reply to Wait. You want to tell a US company who they can sell to ] |
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and for how much? In the name of helping people?
Never pegged you for socialist tendencies, but here we are.
Actually, it's based on the Defense Production Act that was made into law during WWII. GM had to retool for Jeeps and Trucks for the Military, as an example.
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110%er [5694]
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Re: Talking to an Immunologist about masks ...
Oct 7, 2020, 2:43 PM
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Even with a vaccine I'd guess we are still more than a year, maybe two away from normal. Many more suicides, deaths from alcoholism, drugs, etc. (that are not counted by the libs) will be happening, but not reported by MSM.
And, what happens if the Chinese (or whomever) decide to release another one on us? Crap, that'd suck.
There's not much a President can do TBH. Regardless of who wins there is a decent chance we live with this for four more years, and if Biden is the guy his legacy will be not fixing it.
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Orange Blooded [2203]
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Re: Talking to an Immunologist about masks ...
Oct 7, 2020, 4:00 PM
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I am thinking this was a test run but don't forget its all Trump's fault.
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Replies: 35
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