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Replies: 26
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Thoughts on Clemson football.
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Sep 23, 2023, 6:38 PM
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Today sucked, but Clemson did not humiliate itself. We played a good game against a good opponent. Clemson fans should not be ashamed (or angry at anyone.) Clemson football is not a disaster or a dumpster fire. We are a very good program.
That said, obviously it's past time to acknowledge that our incredible run as an elite program is over. We are a top program, and we will see the 12 team playoffs under Dabo a few times, but we can't expect the miracle from 2015-2020 to sustain forever. That's not a reasonable expectation.
Our defense isn't as bad as I thought. It's obvious Wes Goodwin is a significant step down from Venables... but that's not a shocker. We lost the greatest DC (and staff) in 500 years. We were lucky to witness the group of coaches we had. It's silly to be mad that we can't maintain that. But it's silly to pretend we are not experiencing a downgrade.
We didn't lose because of the portal. Even with all the injuries, the WR's played better today (and good enough to beat a top team) than they have in over a year. Great routes, great catching, mediocre blocking, even when they had a subpar throw. FSU desperately needed the portal. It worked well for them. We didn't need the portal except for maybe WR. We have solid talent everywhere else. There is an argument to be made that we are not developing guys as well as we should.
Our OL was solid today. They bought Cade enough time to win against an elite edge rush. The sack/fumble was obviously on the RB, but it was really a great play by the defense. It saved the game for them. We had them on the ropes. It's bitter, but it was a good football game.
Linebackers played much better.
DB's played well enough to beat elite teams. I thought coverage was tighter.
Wes Goodwin (who I still believe will be fired/reassigned after this season) did well enough for us to win today. He made adjustments. We looked decently coached on defense today. I don't believe he has the stuff to meet our program's expectations on defense, but I do not blame this loss on him today.
Cade looked improved too. He made some bad throws early but recovered and played with heart. The screen in OT was brutal but overall he had a good game.
I'm proud of the team's fight. We obviously are not a championship team, but we can win most of our games from here on out. I'm thankful that I'm not freaking out and mad and "demanding answers." Dabo is Clemson's program leader. Any serious adult knows this isn't going to change any time soon. I'm glad of that.
It was a tough loss against a good team. I was wrong about how bad we would look on D, (we were better than I thought) and I was right that we would look better on offense. Even though I was confident we would lose, I was wrong about how close we would make it and how good we looked despite that loss.
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Oculus Spirit [90820]
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CSO..glad you sucked up & posted a positive one!
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Sep 23, 2023, 6:48 PM
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Many of us have been concerned with O play and no Venable-like DC clone but overall the team played lights out while staff didn’t as much.
The thought of an OT was a dream b/4 game time and now it happened, just not our way.
Go TiGERS!
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Orange Blooded [3569]
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Re: Thoughts on Clemson football.
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Sep 23, 2023, 6:51 PM
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Dabo calling out goodwins playcalling at half was encouraging to me. At least we know hes not oblivious to how bad that series was.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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good to know we've entered the....
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Sep 23, 2023, 6:52 PM
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"we didn't humiliate ourselves" level of our program.
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Orange Blooded [4069]
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Re: good to know we've entered the....
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Sep 23, 2023, 6:55 PM
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Agreed pheebo.
Best is the standard ….and it should stay that way.
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Orange Blooded [2053]
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Re: good to know we've entered the....
Sep 24, 2023, 10:39 AM
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> Best is the standard ….and it should stay that way.
It is simply not a sustainable standard. Literally no program has or will do that.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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You took that out of context.
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Sep 23, 2023, 6:56 PM
[ in reply to good to know we've entered the.... ] |
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Those words were in response to people acting ashamed and freaking out like we humiliated ourselves or witnessed a disaster.
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All-TigerNet [10360]
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I believe those "overreaction" are just the realizations....
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Sep 23, 2023, 7:09 PM
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that we're far from what we "used to be".
No overreaction over the loss from me b/c if you've watched us without orange glasses the last 5 years, 3 years, 10 games........you'd notice a trend that we've created.......and it's not upward.
We've now lost FIVE out of our last EIGHT Power 5 games.........and we're ONE for our last FIVE.
When Dabo chooses to adapt we'll turn the trend.........until then get used to this.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Yes, we are no longer elite. That sucks. But this game was
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Sep 24, 2023, 9:32 AM
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not an embarrassment. Our program is no longer elite but it’s not a disaster or a reason to grab pitchforks.
If we demand to be elite, then that’s fine. Let’s do that. But when we act like losing a game in OT to a top 5 team is something to throw a fit about, then that is a tad ridiculous.
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Orange Blooded [2861]
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Re: Yes, we are no longer elite. That sucks. But this game was
Sep 24, 2023, 9:53 AM
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Completely agree. This game in a vacuum would not make anyone mad about the performance. Looking at the last 8 games does give me reason for concern.
I think I am just more and more irritated with the Duke performance. It is clear that the coaches and players thought they could walk into that game and dominate. Which should have been true. But they did not wake up until the second half and then the turnovers killed us.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I was really upset about the Duke performance. More than
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Sep 24, 2023, 10:30 AM
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most others on here. To me, that game was a sign that the program was unhealthy. I saw improvement in everything against FSU, but I also saw our ceiling. We are too accident prone to be a championship team. Our coaches have to take accidents into account. They can't act like it has nothing to do with playcalls or formations or schemes or personnel decisions. Coaching can reduce mistakes.
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Orange Blooded [2112]
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Re: I was really upset about the Duke performance. More than
Sep 25, 2023, 12:20 PM
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Completely valid and reasonable take. This is not allowed on tnet. You must call for a starter to be benched and at least one coach fired.
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Scout Team [152]
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Re: You took that out of context.
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Sep 23, 2023, 7:12 PM
[ in reply to You took that out of context. ] |
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Disappointing thing is that while it may be unrealistic to go to a four team playoff every year, there was no reason for the team to fall off this rapidly. I think if experienced coaches had been hired at OC, DC, WR, and OL when those positions came open the team could have extended its unprecedented run of success longer.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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The falling off rapidly applies to the Duke game.
Sep 25, 2023, 10:48 AM
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Not the FSU game. Our trajectory went back up after the Duke game. If the maintain our latest trajectory, we will win 9-10 games this year.
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All-In [48348]
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Re: Thoughts on Clemson football.
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Sep 23, 2023, 7:40 PM
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First, I agree with your post. Well constructed. Not angry, just disappointed at how easy we could be 4-0. I disagree that we should accept we're not elite. I think we still have enough talent to be elite.
we did make some rookie coaching mistakes. That said, those coaching mistakes have been made in the entire Dabo era. Fortunately we had generational talent at QB's and wr's that overcame the mistakes.
Obvious mistake was the 3 man D at end of first half. 2nd was time management. A couple times we had to call timeouts to get prepared or correct personnel. Cades rpo when that should have been an already set play. Dabo's cute little jazzy play. Wasn't needed. Getting conservative at the goal line instead of tempo. We look clunky on offense. We scripted first down too many times. Send ship up the middle.
But here's one that really burned me. Mafah made a rugged 40 yrd run. We had all the momentum. Coaching. Instead of slowing down and putting ship in, we handed off to Mafah who was gassed after that run into a play that hadn't gained anything all day forcing us into 2nd and 10. Then the fumble.
So 1st down play should have been a quick pass, or a qb draw designed. Thus we got caught in busted protection on 2nd down. We as coaches should have known they were blitzing.
A lot of gibberish but the point is, little mistakes that cost us in big games. The sack fumble play, Cade had 10 or more yards running. So yeah, I'm disappointed in these things that keep occurring. Oh, and why does ship keep knocking the ball out of Cades hands. Little things.
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Orange Blooded [2861]
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Re: Thoughts on Clemson football.
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Sep 24, 2023, 9:56 AM
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Yes this is not the first time we have RPO’s called when it should have been locked. It has happened quit a bit over the years. That should have been a locked run play or even a sneak.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Exactly. No excuse to have the option to throw there.
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Sep 24, 2023, 10:28 AM
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If the offense is too complicated for common sense then it's not an ideal offense.
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Legend [18790]
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Very good response to the OP.
Sep 24, 2023, 10:34 AM
[ in reply to Re: Thoughts on Clemson football. ] |
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Exactly how I feel.
I might add that we needed to have better DEs to get after TJ.
The DE room has been completely mismanaged and absolutely lucky XT came back.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I think Clemson should expect to be at LEAST top 20
Sep 24, 2023, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to Re: Thoughts on Clemson football. ] |
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in our worst years and in the (12 team) playoffs more often than not. But if we expect to be in the top 4 every single year I think that is unreasonable.
So it just depends on your definition of elite.
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110%er [5466]
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Agree 100% on Mafah...
Sep 25, 2023, 11:49 AM
[ in reply to Re: Thoughts on Clemson football. ] |
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...I'm thinking, "why is Phil still in there after that run, much less getting the ball".
Then when I rewatched with my wife, she started blowing up about Mafah getting a hand off after a long run. She said, "Ship had to be ready to scorch one after watching 7 make that long run."
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All-In [32730]
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Re: Thoughts on Clemson football.
Sep 25, 2023, 1:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: Thoughts on Clemson football. ] |
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We scripted first down too many times. Send ship up the middle.
I noticed years ago the frequency of wasted first downs with what I consider junk plays. I never understood this.
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Letterman [288]
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FSU can go to the SEC
Sep 24, 2023, 10:47 AM
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and we can add Cal or SMU to replace them. All is good.
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All-In [27190]
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Re: Thoughts on Clemson football.
Sep 25, 2023, 12:07 PM
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Not sure how you could overlook the three critical busts at safety that led to two TD's and a FG.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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One of the "busts" was a really good play design.
Sep 25, 2023, 1:06 PM
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Our DC was beat by their OC on that delayed crossing route for a wide open TD.
And of course the prevent defense was stupid. Pressure was our only hope.
Their QB played a very good game too. He was better than Cade at finding open WR's.
But I think our DB's played better than FSU's DB's for most of the game.
I have plenty of questions about our defensive leadership but I do not think DB's were a reason we lost. FG kicking, skill position blocking, and indecisive coaching (including defense at times) are the main reasons I believe we lost.
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Athletic Dir [864]
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Re: Thoughts on Clemson football.
Sep 25, 2023, 2:22 PM
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Wes's defense held them to 0 points in the second half and only 22 yards of rushing. They tied the game on a scoop and score. Except for OT they had NO points 2nd half in regulation. How much better do you want it.
Message was edited by: GMAN78®
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Like I said, the defense was not to blame for the FSU loss.
Sep 26, 2023, 9:09 PM
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I just don't believe we are currently being led on the defensive side of the ball to a championship caliber. Yes, both things can be true.
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CU Guru [1271]
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Re: Thoughts on Clemson football.
Sep 26, 2023, 9:17 PM
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OL solid...that is funny! Cade got hit all day and we couldn't run up the middle behind our best lineman.
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