Replies: 26
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CU Guru [1381]
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Rock Defender [53]
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I'd say his basis for stopping the guy was pretty weak
Jun 15, 2020, 2:19 PM
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: I'd say his basis for stopping the guy was pretty weak
Jun 15, 2020, 2:32 PM
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mo one is arguing a stop when there is probable cause or real suspicious activity. The issue is cops can make up whatever they want to be "suspicious" in this case it was the guy tried to hide his face with his phone... lol. He had no right to detain him, but he did. That happens all the time, using intimidation. several ways it coulda gone sideways, if the guy had started walking away at the beginning, which would be his right, and the cop had grabbed him and a tustle occurred.
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Rock Defender [53]
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See that's where you go wrong
Jun 15, 2020, 2:38 PM
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: See that's where you go wrong
Jun 15, 2020, 2:56 PM
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when I say a tustle I dont mean a fight per say, but if a guy don't want to have a cops hands on him... things happen. But I think thats a big part of the reforms that people are protesting for. This kinda confrontations are not unusual or 1 off. A cop has a gun and other weapons...why do we have to live in a world where you have to obey orders even if they are unlawful or you could die? And notice the cop does not have a body cam, and so often these complaints end up nowhere. Thats changing now that everyone has their cameras at the ready. I would love for my kids to where go pros when they leave the house
he violated this guys rights twice, with the illegal detainment, and with the illegal search
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Rock Defender [53]
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Things were going fine for Rayshard Brooks
Jun 15, 2020, 3:05 PM
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: Things were going fine for Rayshard Brooks
Jun 15, 2020, 3:14 PM
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you're conflating 2 different issues. Mr Brooks is a totally different situations. I'm not completely sure what I think about that case. which is why I have stayed out of discussions on it. Completely different situation
Again what many people are protesting is how police treat the public. I understand what could happen. Police reform would change that, and police hopefully not give unlawful orders just coz, or treat some pole different than others due to color of their skin or location. We literally have individuals with weapons that can make up whatever they want, and you better do it, with little or no consequences. How is that ok?
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Things were going fine for Rayshard Brooks
Jun 15, 2020, 3:22 PM
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: Things were going fine for Rayshard Brooks
Jun 15, 2020, 3:45 PM
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ok, I thought I was being clear, but I'll try again.
The system allows this cop to do what he did. It allows cops to beat the crap of people for not following their orders even when they are wrong. Most cops don't get any consequences for these actions. You think this is the 1st time this cop did this? I would wager it was not. I think the guy handled it correctly as well. But really is that the standard, if you don't get beat up or killed in an interaction with police all is good? So I hope thats clearer. Its not what happened, its the system that allows this and other officers to act as they do with the public
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Things were going fine for Rayshard Brooks
Jun 15, 2020, 3:55 PM
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: Things were going fine for Rayshard Brooks
Jun 15, 2020, 4:05 PM
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we obviously see things very different as to police powers. and thats fine we can agree to disagree.
No doubt people do stupid stuff all the time. The video just to show how it happens... not the outcome. b/c the outcome could have gone a lotta different ways, but no matter how they went, it would all be coz a cop approached a guy and tried to intimidate him with unlawful orders. The cop had no business but did because he can in the current system = reform the police
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Rock Defender [53]
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Re: Things were going fine for Rayshard Brooks
Jun 15, 2020, 4:11 PM
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: Things were going fine for Rayshard Brooks
Jun 15, 2020, 4:24 PM
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sometimes you seem so clear and i'm right there with you, then you spin off into something we are not even talking about. so your opinion is based on the constitution? what does the constitution say about search and seizers. what do (most) state laws say about unlawful detainments? So yeah I dont wanna die by cop either, but you hardly have arguments supported by the constitution or other given rights.
I agree lawsuits are good, but who pays for that? in a thread before you were all bent about taxpayers having to pay for these things. So who pays? would it not be better to make it so nobody needs to sue and play wackamole when a cop gets outa hand? that makes more sense to me.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I’m saying most cops follow the procedures
Jun 15, 2020, 7:17 PM
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110%er [5694]
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This type of attitude is why all this is happening
Jun 15, 2020, 6:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: See that's where you go wrong ] |
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"...why do we have to live in a world where you have to obey orders"
Propagating that question leads to very bad things - we have to assume cops are good (99%+ are). But, I get where you are coming from.
Here's a super terrible example that is hard to watch. Cop got off, but I have to admit the dude was going for his waistband. There is some background to this, as usually there is. He had a pellet gun someone saw, and apparently there was some event at the hotel happening. He was there with his wife, on travel for work. His wife heard the shots...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBUUx0jUKxc&t=182s&has_verified=1&bpctr=1592260148
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: This type of attitude is why all this is happening
Jun 15, 2020, 7:05 PM
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that was a hard video to watch. I don't know the specifics of what that was about or if the guy was innocent or had done anything or what. I do think that its possible to not do everything perfectly as ordered, when theres a high powered rifle in your face.
Anyway, my statement is having to follow unlawful (not lawful) orders. just because a cop says jump, you shouldn't have to jump or get shot. And not everyone assumes 99% are good. I know thats incorrect. I understand after many threads on here that some people are just fine with that, but I'm not, and many people are working to change things with said system.
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All-In [42196]
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Re: I'd say his basis for stopping the guy was pretty weak
Jun 15, 2020, 7:27 PM
[ in reply to I'd say his basis for stopping the guy was pretty weak ] |
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I would argue the cop probably is quite well versed in the probable cause, and is trained to convince a possible suspect to surrender his rights to make it easier for arrest and conviction if applicable.
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110%er [9029]
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Re: good cop or bad cop?
Jun 15, 2020, 2:34 PM
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great discussion between two adults
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: good cop or bad cop?
Jun 15, 2020, 2:36 PM
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1 of those adults should get a 2 week vacation with no pay
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110%er [9029]
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Re: good cop or bad cop?
Jun 15, 2020, 2:39 PM
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and miss an opportunity to use his new found knowledge of how to talk with people?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: good cop or bad cop?
Jun 15, 2020, 2:41 PM
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That was interesting. Cops just need to leave people alone unless there is a known crime.
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110%er [9029]
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Re: good cop or bad cop?
Jun 15, 2020, 2:46 PM
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probably need to let the residents keep a check on themselves, dont even enter a residential area unless a complaint has been made
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110%er [9029]
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Re: good cop or bad cop?
Jun 15, 2020, 2:47 PM
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if you have a complaint, then you have a basis to conduct an investigation
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CU Guru [1381]
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Re: good cop or bad cop?
Jun 15, 2020, 3:52 PM
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until just receently, complaints dont mean much.
I was in a cop bar with my buddy once and a Sgt (after a couple dinks) and thinking he was in a room of likeminded people (other cops) bragged about he got his buddy at IAB to funnel all complaints to him, including complaints of him. He joked that he wish they could just save him a step and send them to his trash file.... everyone laughed and laughed
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110%er [9029]
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Re: good cop or bad cop?
Jun 15, 2020, 4:43 PM
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i was talking about a citizen/mgr/property owner call to the police to make a statement that a crime or potential crime is taking place
there should be an open process about complaints though, seems like liberal run cities would already have such a process in place
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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for the sake of arguement, he is just doing his job
Jun 15, 2020, 3:33 PM
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Who asked him to do this job and what were the job expectations outlined to him?
If he works for your town, maybe take it up with the Mayor, and if the Mayor refuses to do anything, make sure he doesn't get re-elected.
Why is this bs so difficult for people to understand. We typically get what we ask for when it comes to government and authority. If we don't like the result, we should blame ourselves first.
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110%er [9029]
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Re: for the sake of arguement, he is just doing his job
Jun 15, 2020, 4:44 PM
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i suspect the property owner asked for patrols
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Replies: 26
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