Replies: 73
| visibility 1
|
Legend [16733]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16764
Joined: 8/19/04
|
How do you hunters and dog lovers feel about this?
Jan 13, 2013, 3:17 PM
|
|
From Post Courier:
In the woods near Walterboro, Jason Finley was using a global positioning system to find his lost hunting beagle “Meatball.”
As the chase wound down, Finley was within 100 yards of the 12-year-old pet when he heard two blasts ring out.
Moments later, he found Meatball shot dead.
To Finley, the act was senseless and cruel. It also put to use a relatively new South Carolina hunting law meant to protect dogs, like Meatball, caught up in an age-old feud between rival human hunters.
In 2010, South Carolina lawmakers, frustrated by reports of hunting dogs intentionally being shot in the wild, passed the Renegade Hunter Act. Among other things, it made it illegal to shoot hunting dogs wandering on lands where they aren’t supposed to be.
It was drafted, in part, to head off what has been an ever-growing conflict between two sometimes rival sets of hunters — those who prefer using dogs to flush their prey, and “still hunters” who prefer stationary positions, such as perched high up in a tree stand.
A leading contributor to the feud in recent times, Department of Natural Resources law enforcement Capt. Gentry Thames said, is the shrinking number of available wilderness acres for both factions to use.
“It’s competition for space,” Thames said as he related stories of dogs not returning from hunts, or just their collars being found. Various Internet discussions of the debate have carried on as well, with opponents saying the dogs get hyped up, spoiling the atmosphere for other hunters and going after other animals.
Meatball’s killing was documented Dec. 1 in a Colleton County Sheriff’s Department incident report. Finley said he had been in the woods hunting with about six of his dogs when three of them, Meatball and two pups, ran off near the end of the day.
The three hounds reportedly had left the boundary of one hunting property where dog running was allowed, and crossed the road onto another hunt property where hunting dogs weren’t supposed to be.
Finley, a James Island resident who said he is a member of both hunting club sites, was attempting to find Meatball via a GPS unit linked to one of three collars the dog was wearing that day.
“Shortly after, he located his dog dead from a gunshot wound,” the sheriff’s department incident report said. It also said the alleged shooter was found nearby.
“The victim located the suspect, who advised that he thought it was a stray dog on the hunting grounds,” the incident report states. “That is why he shot the dog,” it also reads.
Ticketed in the shooting was Brian C. Sobolewski, 42, of Jacksonville, Fla. He was cited by DNR with a violation of the “Renegade Hunter Law” and released.
Last month, Sobolewski was found guilty by a Colleton County magistrate in his absence, giving up his $470 bond as a fine. He did not appear at the hearing, but reportedly will lose his hunting privileges in the state for a year.
Reached by phone in Florida, Sobolewski’s office referred questions to his attorney, who last week said he will ask the case be reopened and reheard.
Attorney Frank Keasler said Sobolewski did not violate the law, and that he had permission to shoot stray dogs on the property. Keasler described his client as an accomplished outdoorsman of high skill, and that Sobolewski was told that the club owners were trying to fight off an infestation of wild dogs. He had permission to cull, Keasler said.
“He thought it was a wild dog,” said Keasler, adding that Sobolewski wants to protect his good name as a hunter. “He knows the rules of the road,” he said.
Finley’s attorney, John Thomas Thompson of Charleston, doesn’t buy that Meatball could be mistaken for a wild dog, given that he was wearing three collars that day, something Finley noted to authorities at the time of the shooting.
“As a deer hunter, I’ve long recognized the conflict between still hunters and dog hunters, but what happened here is immoral, illegal and unacceptable,” Thompson said in a statement last week. He added that the incident is what the Renegade Hunter Act was meant to avoid.
One section of the law states “a dog that has entered upon the land of another without permission (being) given to the person in control of the dog shall not be killed, maimed, or otherwise harmed simply because the dog has entered upon the land.”
Anyone caught violating the section faces a fine of not more than $500 or imprisonment for not more than 30 days.
Thompson said he is exploring a civil court response to the shooting, but has not yet calculated a potential financial figure covering the loss of a trained hunting dog, years of food and veterinary bills and the “loss of affection” of a family pet.
One month after the shooting, Finley said he still can’t see the sense of anyone intentionally firing at something in the woods that isn’t considered legal wilderness game.
“He was just a good old dog,” Finley said of Meatball. “He didn’t bother nobody. He didn’t bark. There was just no reason.”
Reach Schuyler Kropf at 937-5551.
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Legend [16733]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16764
Joined: 8/19/04
|
Re: How do you hunters and dog lovers feel about this?
Jan 13, 2013, 3:20 PM
|
|
Was the dog owner not tempted to shoot the other hunter? If someone shot my dog I'm not sure I would have the restraint not to shoot him if I had a gun in my hand.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
All-Conference [435]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 555
Joined: 10/30/09
|
Re: How do you hunters and dog lovers feel about this?
Jan 13, 2013, 3:32 PM
|
|
I'm not a hunter, but I am a dog lover. I don't think I would have shot that hunter, but he would've woken up in the middle of the forest several hours later wondering where his teeth are.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1218]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1965
Joined: 9/27/05
|
I've been dealing with this issue all my life....
Jan 13, 2013, 3:45 PM
[ in reply to Re: How do you hunters and dog lovers feel about this? ] |
|
It is a tough one and I've been on both sides more than once. I would never shoot a collared dog, or one that looks like it's been taken care of, but I have had to shoot wild dogs on occasion when they were endangering my animals. They will attack farm animals, pets, fawns and even people. They are a bigger problem than many realize. Though I am primarily a still hunter, I do enjoy a good dog drive every now and then and would hate to see the tradition taken away. Outdoorsmen are like everyone else.....most are ethical and try to the right thing....some are despicable scum. Anyone who shoots a dog with 3 collars that is not threatening him belongs in the latter group.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Medallion [55430]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58431
Joined: 7/18/07
|
Re: How do you hunters and dog lovers feel about this?
Jan 13, 2013, 4:05 PM
[ in reply to Re: How do you hunters and dog lovers feel about this? ] |
|
Agree, and also, he better have had a catch net at the bottom of his tree. Because he sure as h&ll would be falling out of it from hot lead in his A$$. The absolute love I have for my dog is just as the love for any other part of my family. If someone kills him on purpose. I swear in the name of Jesus that I will kill their A$$. There is not a hint of doubt in my mine that he/my dog would give his life to protect me or my wife, and I will do the same for him.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1626]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 4771
Joined: 11/15/11
|
If you're gonna use dogs...
Jan 13, 2013, 3:22 PM
|
|
To track deer just keep them on a leash and track with them and all dogs should have to wear orange vests to prevent accidents imo when I use my dog to track I go with him to keep him off others land.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [2796]
TigerPulse: 99%
Posts: 3970
Joined: 4/14/05
|
Re: How do you hunters and dog lovers feel about this?
Jan 13, 2013, 3:24 PM
|
|
This is a good law IMO. I have had problems with nuisance dogs in the past, and its very frustrating. However, the owners are responsible for their dogs and there should be laws directed at punishing them for the lack of control.
Dogs will be dogs... Humans know better and should act accordingly or be fined.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1918]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3874
Joined: 7/30/09
|
The fine should be much higher!***
Jan 13, 2013, 3:31 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Medallion [50946]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 17119
Joined: 5/21/08
|
To shoot a dog with a collar is not excusable - even
Jan 13, 2013, 3:32 PM
|
|
if the guy had permission to shoot strays he should make sure there was no collar before deciding that it was a stray. And this dog had three collars. The fact that both men belong to the same club will be a problem in the future, I feel like the guy who shot the dog should be put out of the club for not confirming that there was a collar (regardless of what anyone thinks about shooting strays). And I agree with his lawyer that he should return to SC for a new trial and hope that he would get the 30 days in jail added to the fine.
Message was edited by: clover65®
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Heisman Winner [108390]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64974
Joined: 2/25/06
|
donner party, party of 5...
***
Jan 13, 2013, 3:35 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
All-TigerNet [10216]
TigerPulse: 74%
Posts: 18318
Joined: 2/20/09
|
Here is what I think...
Jan 13, 2013, 3:40 PM
|
|
The guy that shot the defenseless dog should be taken out across the street...shot in the head 5 times and the body 5 times and throw that piece of crap in a dumpster....then put it on a bill board with a message on there that this is what happens when you do a s s h o l e things.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
All-Conference [435]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 555
Joined: 10/30/09
|
Don't sugarcoat it...
Jan 13, 2013, 3:42 PM
|
|
tell us how you really feel.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
All-TigerNet [10216]
TigerPulse: 74%
Posts: 18318
Joined: 2/20/09
|
I have had two loyal awesome dogs for 9 years and to
Jan 13, 2013, 3:45 PM
|
|
read that story makes my stomach turn...disgusting.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Trainer [42]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43
Joined: 8/23/06
|
Re: How do you hunters and dog lovers feel about this?
Jan 13, 2013, 4:17 PM
|
|
Im an advid hunter who has hunted with dogs and as a still hunter. The dog club i belonged to would surround the property with hunters who would insure the dogs stayed in the drive 90% of the time. If a dog did go on the adjacent property the drivers would leave their guns on our property and collect their dogs. If the adjacent property owners caught the dogs they would be put in pens and their owners would be called. Everyone was pretty hapy about this situation because both sides were respected.
I also hunt on some private land andmust say i have been tempted to shoot dogs on several ovlccasions. If you drop off your dogs and junp in your truck to cut the deer off on the other side of a block you are going to have dogs on someone elses property. What i really love is when dog hunters drop their dogs on our property to run deer onto their propeery with no regard that this ruins my hunting. Having your mangy underfed mut run through my stand and run off a massive 8 pt does make me want to shoot your #### mut. But i dont because its the owners fault he is on the property.
So how about this if i catch your dog on my property the fines are as follows, this way the dog hunters dogs dont get shot and the dog hinters will have a reason to keep their dogs off my property.
1st offense $500 per dog 2nd offence $1000 per dog and suspension of your hunting liscense for 1 year 3rd offence $2500 per dog 30 days in jail per dog and loss of hunting prevaliges for 1 year per dog.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1218]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1965
Joined: 9/27/05
|
Re: How do you hunters and dog lovers feel about this?
Jan 13, 2013, 4:34 PM
|
|
Moose, when the bill was up for consideration, there were many pushing for harsher penalties but they were shot down by old guard legislators who grew up dog driving in the 50s. Times have changed with rural development and large tracts being subdivided and something clearly needs to be done. Many folks are being forced to put up fences to keep dogs out in my area which is just another expense on top of everything else that must be paid for wildlife management. I, too, have been in the stand and had a pack of walkers come through and ruin my afternoon. I've also had dogs mess up turkey hunts. It's very frustrating but I cannot in good conscience shoot a dog that I know is someone's pet. I see no solution to this conundrum that will make everyone happy.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [2563]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4860
Joined: 10/2/08
|
Sobolewski AND Keasler needs their A$$ beat.***
Jan 13, 2013, 4:30 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1113]
TigerPulse: 94%
Posts: 1940
Joined: 7/8/99
|
The ignorant hunter with the dog needs to make sure he has
Jan 13, 2013, 4:50 PM
|
|
Enough land to dog hunt so his dog will not go where he could possibly get shot
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Trainer [42]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 43
Joined: 8/23/06
|
Re: How do you hunters and dog lovers feel about this?
Jan 13, 2013, 4:59 PM
|
|
What i really love is when a dog hunter drives onto posted property passes right by my stand and when confronted gets pissed because i tell him to leave. Just because your dog is trusspassing DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO COME ON POSTED LAND TO LOOK FOR HIM! My favority thing i have had happen was a dog hunter drove onto posted land collected his dogs, and drove through a recently planted field doing so. Said ####### then shot a large buck he riped up. What is even classier is when he just cut off the antlers because he saw somone driving towards the field to see why somone was shooting on a sunday in the back field.
I use to love dog hunting but now i hope they outlaw it. When this happens the dog hunters will have no one to blaim but them selves.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [2802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1918
Joined: 5/16/03
|
Aren't "still hunters" really just snipers? How is sitting
Jan 13, 2013, 5:08 PM
|
|
in a tree hunting? Yes, I know, I am going to get blasted.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1218]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1965
Joined: 9/27/05
|
Re: Aren't "still hunters" really just snipers? How is sitting
Jan 13, 2013, 5:12 PM
|
|
Still hunters are no more "snipers" than those who lie in wait for dogs to push a deer towards them. Both are sporting, in my book. You have to make the shot, regardless.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [4788]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2254
Joined: 11/19/12
|
Re: I would have killed Sobolewski.
Jan 13, 2013, 5:22 PM
|
|
I would have killed Sobolewski.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Legend [16158]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26449
Joined: 11/18/03
|
Dude would have lost more than a football if he shot my dog.***
Jan 13, 2013, 5:42 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1632]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 1766
Joined: 1/16/99
|
If Jason Finley crossed property lines to "find" Meatball,
Jan 13, 2013, 5:49 PM
|
|
he should have been charged with trespassing. Too many dog hunters believe they and their dogs can go wherever they please.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [4788]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2254
Joined: 11/19/12
|
Re: If Jason Finley crossed property lines to "find" Meatball,
Jan 13, 2013, 5:59 PM
|
|
Who is going to charge Finley with trespassing? A law enforcement officer will more likely arrest you for calling them and wasting their time.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Legend [16158]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 26449
Joined: 11/18/03
|
Spoken like someone else who has tried to legally deal with
Jan 13, 2013, 6:06 PM
|
|
trespassers...First offense is a written warning at best...
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
110%er [6099]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 13248
Joined: 11/10/00
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Legend [16733]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 16764
Joined: 8/19/04
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Athletic Dir [864]
TigerPulse: 93%
Posts: 3124
Joined: 12/8/11
|
Dog lover not a hunter
Jan 13, 2013, 8:08 PM
|
|
Hunting dogs should wear an orange vest along with gps. Not sure anyone should run a dog next to property lines without a leash for safety.....weird #### people out there who will kill anything...very sad story..btw have also seen hunting dogs waiting on the side of road for owners.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1218]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1965
Joined: 9/27/05
|
I'm a dog lover and an avid hunter...
Jan 13, 2013, 8:15 PM
|
|
and I believe requiring orange vests and tracking collars on all deer or coon dogs is an excellent idea. Good luck getting our legislature-controlled DNR to make this happen.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [2563]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4860
Joined: 10/2/08
|
cornpile...deer...shot...so called hunter
Jan 13, 2013, 8:15 PM
|
|
Outlaw cornpiles, and all the tv hunters will go back to whatever they were doing , before they became "hunters" .
A 5 yr old can be a "still hunter".
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1218]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1965
Joined: 9/27/05
|
Might as well outlaw hunting near mast trees.....
Jan 13, 2013, 8:23 PM
|
|
b/c when the white oaks are dumping, it's just as easy to kill a deer under them as it is to shoot them on a corn pile or in a food plot. It's pretty difficult to define what is "sporting", as opinions will always differ, but it is VERY easy to turn different types of hunters against themselves.....and that is what anti-hunters would love to accomplish. This is a tricky issue.....no simple solution.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [2563]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4860
Joined: 10/2/08
|
90% couldn't tell you the difference between a white oak
Jan 13, 2013, 8:45 PM
|
|
and a water oak.....but give em a thermacell and two bags of corn and they're #### Idol.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1218]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1965
Joined: 9/27/05
|
Re: 90% couldn't tell you the difference between a white oak
Jan 13, 2013, 8:51 PM
|
|
Thermacells are the greatest invention since air conditioning! If I hadn't had 2 with me yesterday, my duck hunt would have been miserable.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [4788]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2254
Joined: 11/19/12
|
Re: cornpile...deer...shot...so called hunter
Jan 13, 2013, 8:42 PM
[ in reply to cornpile...deer...shot...so called hunter ] |
|
This state needs to increase out-of-state hunting permits SUBSTANTIALLY. A large portion of hunters come from Florida to hunt because they paved over their own hunting lands and have no where to hunt. Thousands of Floridians come to SC on the weekends to hunt. Most of these hunters keep campers and rv parked on leased timber tracts all year long and basically contribute nothing for their privilege to hunt.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [4788]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2254
Joined: 11/19/12
|
Re: cornpile...deer...shot...so called hunter
Jan 13, 2013, 8:44 PM
|
|
Yeah... . shooting animals with bait is a sport?
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1218]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1965
Joined: 9/27/05
|
BRAVO, Rex!
Jan 13, 2013, 8:47 PM
[ in reply to Re: cornpile...deer...shot...so called hunter ] |
|
Having lived in the Lowcountry my entire life, I can say you are 100% correct. The Floridians invade, drive up lease rates and decimate whitetail populations. They have no vested interest in proper wildlife management. They just use up OUR resources and then move on to the next tract. They have long been the bane of my existence.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [3350]
TigerPulse: 97%
Posts: 7782
Joined: 11/6/03
|
While I don't condone shooting a
Jan 13, 2013, 8:55 PM
|
|
collared dog. I sort of understand the frustration. Two things. One if you know your neighbors are fog hunters you have to decide at that point whether you even want to try still hunting and if so you'll just have to tolerate it. And two, if you want to dog hunt, you better own or have access to at least 1000 acres with some good natural perimeters like swamps and or rivers.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [2563]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4860
Joined: 10/2/08
|
The general difference, is just plain arrogance.
Jan 13, 2013, 9:31 PM
|
|
I have dog hunted from the ACE basin (20 years before it was the ACE basin) to the 30,000 acre plantations along the Santee and the Francis Marion in between.
Almost to a man, a dog hunter will invite you to come along with him and enjoy. The still hunter wants you and your dog off his 40 acres before you can even ask to retrieve him.
What most don't understand is that , we don't want our dog on your land anymore than you do...because if he's on your land - we cant hunt our land.
We offered a local thorn in our side , to pay his lease for him, and offered him a free membership to our 6000 acres - just for access to his 350-400 acre lease to retrieve our dogs on the occasion they went that way....you can imagine how that went.
Some folks just like to not get along.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
All-TigerNet [13360]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9886
Joined: 1/23/06
|
Re: The general difference, is just plain arrogance.
Jan 13, 2013, 9:41 PM
|
|
I guess it's all in how you are raised. I am a dog lover and a bow hunter. I have never agreed with the idea of hunting with dogs. I do have a house/ family dog that helps me track deer after I have shot. Overall I think it is a fairly lazy way to hunt that takes sportsmanship out of the equation.
I find it interesting that no one has mentioned how much of a problem deer dogs are. Half of them get shot by their owners at some point anyways...
It is unfortunate that this dog in the story was about to be recovered, but I would say that is the vast minority of the time that these dogs are found again. Obviously this dog in the story had some time and money put into it (or else he wouldn't have a GPS chip in) but this is not common place in my experience.
The last statement I will make is to those saying they would kill or beat up the dog killer- This isn't a dog that typically sleeps in your bed with you and plays fetch with your kids. These are dogs that are kept in a locker and live a comparatively miserable existence used only to herd deer for their owner. I'm not saying they wouldn't care, it just isn't the same kind of relationship you would have with your family dog.
Message was edited by: elwyn07®
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Freshman [7]
TigerPulse: 36%
Posts: 12
Joined: 1/11/13
|
some hunters actually hunt, dog drivers are not hunters, they are shooters.
Jan 13, 2013, 9:36 PM
|
|
Wow judging by the ignorance in half of the posts in this thread most of you know nothing about hunting. I have hunted all of my life, I am also a wildlife conservationist and I give back and try to benefit the same lands I hunt from. I would never advocate killing a dog for any reason. I also dont advocate or agree with dog driving. 90% of the dogs are not treated well nor are kept in very clean living conditions and are usually kept in very small pens. Dog driving consists of several deer dogs being released, picking up a scent trail and pushing pushing deer towards standers waiting at crossing points so they can get a shot when the deer cross in front of them. I'm sorry but this is shooting not hunting. I put in months of scouting, walk miles of swamps, cutovers, and hardwood bottoms looking for rubs, scapes, bedding areas, and deer trails. I actually hunt. I set up my climbers and hunt them according to wind direction amd I DO NOT BAIT. I have been on two dog drives and on both there were fawns killed that you could pick up with one hand. The majority of dog clubs do not care about deer management or morals. Like i said i do not condone killing dogs, however i do understand the frustration level when you have bubba joe and his beagals running deer across the areas still hunters put so much more time, money, and actual hunting skills into.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
All-TigerNet [13360]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9886
Joined: 1/23/06
|
^^^^^gets it!^^^^^***
Jan 13, 2013, 9:43 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1218]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1965
Joined: 9/27/05
|
Re: some hunters actually hunt, dog drivers are not hunters, they are shooters.
Jan 13, 2013, 9:45 PM
[ in reply to some hunters actually hunt, dog drivers are not hunters, they are shooters. ] |
|
That's some pretty broad generalizations there, bull sprig. I know some dog clubs that practice better QDM than still hunters, and I'm talking over thousands of ac., not small tracts. There are ethical hunters on both sides of this issue. We, as conservationists and hunters, cannot afford to turn against each other....combined, we make up a small percentage of the population. Either we learn to peacefully coexist or we will lose the sport we so dearly cherish. Think abt it, man.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [2563]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4860
Joined: 10/2/08
|
LOL You , sir or madam , are a joke. I probably spend
Jan 13, 2013, 9:52 PM
[ in reply to some hunters actually hunt, dog drivers are not hunters, they are shooters. ] |
|
more on upkeep of hounds than you make in a year.
You are the typical hand wringer who wants to paint your opposition with one brush.
On one of my clubs we shoot 6pts or better....on the other its 8pts or better....dog hunting.
Like I said before , you are welcome to come - but you wouldnt be allowed to kill any yearlings - unless you plan on paying the fine.
The saddest part is some uneducated to the ways of hunting will possibly believe you.
When a hunter wraps a $150 tracking collar on his dog, and tracks it with a $700 tracking box - it's a little hard to understand why he would mistreat it and keep it in a little cage like you said.
The real ones who should be getting punished in all this are the ones who shoot someone else's dogs....or really even worse - the ones who do catch someone else's dog on their property , take the collars off, and dump the dog miles away so the hunter can't find the dog , and the dog ends up starving or run over. Of course, you don't want that little still hunter secret to get out.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Freshman [7]
TigerPulse: 36%
Posts: 12
Joined: 1/11/13
|
Re: Re: some hunters actually hunt, dog drivers are not hunters, they are shooters.
Jan 13, 2013, 9:54 PM
|
|
Well lets think about it, my style of hunting affects no one outside of me and those who hunt with me. Dog driving affects you, your neighbors, an the occasional car/driver that just had his car dammaged by a deer dog or deer that was pushed out into the road. I dont think the still hunters should be the ones comprimising.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1218]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1965
Joined: 9/27/05
|
Y'all are being obstinant......
Jan 13, 2013, 10:06 PM
|
|
I appreciate both styles. All my land is under strict management and I would hate to attempt to quantify the time/money spent managing game. My criteria is, if it's a buck worth harvesting (save a management buck), then it's worth paying for a European skull or shoulder mount....if not, let him walk. I primarily still hunt but do enjoy hearing the dogs run from time to time and the fellowship. Last day of the season, I had some friends come in w/ beagles to try and fill out my doe quota. We killed 11 and only had one buttonhead mistake. It happens....I can live with it. What frustrates me more than anything is those that become so entrenched in their position that they forget that all of us combined represent less than 10% of South Carolinians. The other 90% might one day say we're all wrong. What then?! Think abt it....
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Walk-On [130]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 48
Joined: 7/30/99
|
Re: Y'all are being obstinant......
Jan 14, 2013, 6:55 PM
|
|
I appreciate your stance, and wish there were more like you. I am an avid foxhunter who hunts in the wild that tries to break my dogs from running deer. We have had dogs hauled off by still hunter's or someone. We have also had dogs killed. All of my dogs have collars with name plates that have all of my information. I just wish people had the backbone to catch my dog and give me a call if they have a problem, not harm my hounds. We try not hunting where it is going to interfere with anyone in a tree. We also do not hunt in the wild during the month of April, so we don't interfere with someone that turkey hunts. Personally I don't still hunt. It is not my cup of tea, but i don't have a problem with anyone that does. I believe we hunters need to stick together instead of fighting amongst ourselves, because i think in the not so distant future we are going to have a fight on our hands with the lawmakers. Sorry to go on and on. Just my 2 cents.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [2563]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4860
Joined: 10/2/08
|
Your last sentance says it all.
Jan 13, 2013, 10:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Re: some hunters actually hunt, dog drivers are not hunters, they are shooters. ] |
|
Your made up stories make it sound like people are hunting your land , not the occasional dog that wanders onto your property or runs a deer to you. In 40 years of hunting , I have never seen a single car hit a deer run by dogs - but have personally hit 4 deer during the rut, coming home from hunting...not a dog in sight or heard.
And the guy talking about 1/2 the dogs get shot by their owner ???? Are you reading that straight out of the HSUS pamphlet ? You can't make this stuff up...LOL
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1218]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1965
Joined: 9/27/05
|
Re: Your last sentance says it all.
Jan 13, 2013, 10:21 PM
|
|
I saw a mid 140s 10 yesterday that was better then any buck I've ever killed. I hope to see him this year in a beanfield on Aug. 15th. I just hope he's out of velvet. I am begging y'all to heed my words b/c there are many folks that would love nothing more then to take away our ability to hunt, whether w/ dogs or in the stand. Fighting amongst ourselves is the fastest way to help the hsus fruitcakes to accomplish their primary goal.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [2563]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4860
Joined: 10/2/08
|
Just shooting , huh
Jan 13, 2013, 10:20 PM
|
|
|
Tracked him,my dogs trailed and jumped him in a 200 acre thicket before heading to a swamp bottom trying to hit the river. I cut him off twice on foot before I could get a shot.
I'm sure he had been to plenty of cornpiles in his life, probably between 2 and 3 in the morning.
I'm just glad no clever "hunter" was there to shoot him with his face down in the cornpile.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Freshman [7]
TigerPulse: 36%
Posts: 12
Joined: 1/11/13
|
Re: LOL You , sir or madam , are a joke. I probably spend
Jan 13, 2013, 10:27 PM
|
|
Ok once again where is the hunting skill in dog driving? And if you are telling the truth about some of the things in your post then you are in the minority of dog drivers. Ive lived from augusta to myrtle beach to greenville, columbia, and currently reside in conway and have hunted at least half the counties in the state and whether you will admit it or not, most dog clubs are not conservationists or moralists by any means. The old saying was in my friends dog club was "i cant wait to get a tenderloin off the one you can toss over your shoulder cause you know somebodys gonna shoot one" However if the clubs you hunt in are like you say then i appauld you for it. As far as living conditions for the dogs go i have seen too many 4x4 ft pens with 3 or more dogs crammed in walking around in their own crap for you to convince me otherwise that the majority of dog drivers treat their dogs as anything close to pets.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [2563]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4860
Joined: 10/2/08
|
Birds of a feather I guess applies here then 6pinhead....
Jan 13, 2013, 10:40 PM
|
|
It was your "friends" who were shooting the little ones and had the 3 dogs in a cage.
Don't try to paint my friends and your's with the same brush.
That's like asking why you still hunters shoot them at night with spotlights ? Or why you take our dogs and turn them loose somewhere else without our collars ?
There are bad apples .... on both sides of this fence.
Too bad you haven't had the pleasure of dealing or hunting with the majority of dog hunters who cherish their dogs and their right to hunt.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [2563]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4860
Joined: 10/2/08
|
No morals , huh ?
Jan 13, 2013, 10:31 PM
|
|
|
After letting my son shoot his first , with it's head stuck in a cornpile at the age of 8 , he learned how to dog hunt. He won Westvaco awards at age 12 for a 130 pound doe, and 2 years later for this 9 point.
The moral I tried to teach him was that shooting a deer with its head stuck in a cornpile , or in a "hunting" preserve with 10 foot fences is not "moral" .
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1218]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1965
Joined: 9/27/05
|
High fences.....yet another thorny issue.
Jan 13, 2013, 10:39 PM
|
|
My 10 yr old is a hunting machine. He is now 10 for 11. His best was a 187# buck killed over a wheat field. I would have been just as proud if he had killed it crossing a mature longleaf stand in front of a pack of hounds. Y'all need to see the big picture here.....before it's to late.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Freshman [7]
TigerPulse: 36%
Posts: 12
Joined: 1/11/13
|
Re: Your last sentance says it all.
Jan 13, 2013, 10:40 PM
|
|
Hwy 501 second week of the season a walker caused a six car wreck when he ran a doe across the 4 lane hwy. Will post a link of thr write up when i find it. As far as the guys saying we should all comr together as one, yes i agree with you there. I may not agree with your style and you may not like mine but ill take your side over anyone who wants to jeopardize somrthing ive spent my whole life and hope to continue doing every year for the rest of it. Ill havr to agree to disagree for now though there's a duck blind in north santee with my name on it and 4 am will come very early thats something we all agree on. Night guys
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Freshman [7]
TigerPulse: 36%
Posts: 12
Joined: 1/11/13
|
Re: Birds of a feather I guess applies here then 6pinhead....
Jan 13, 2013, 11:00 PM
|
|
I guess u didnt read my first post . I dont hunt dogs nor hunt over bait. I absolutely have never killed a deer under a light(a few hogs though). Like i stated earlier i scout and do extensive homework for the deer i kill. It is my belief that i can kill a nice buck(an old doe can be a challenge too) by going to him and finding his patterns than trying to get him to come to me. This is my personal preference and i like the feeling i get knowing i put in the sweat and time and actually hunted the deer. If you dont enjoy this, fine, im not going to lose sleep over it bc this style of hunting is not the norm anymore. Most hunters dont find it enjoyable, they want it to be easy and feel their odds are better with cornpiles or dogs and they would be right. However stats prove that a buck will not always come out to a cornpile, esp. a mature buck. I would be willing to put my style of hunting up against any other for which yields the highest avg. Of larger 4+ year old bucks.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [2563]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4860
Joined: 10/2/08
|
Oh, I read everything. Was painting you with one of those
Jan 13, 2013, 11:20 PM
|
|
wide brushes. Didn't taste too good , huh.
And I'm just getting to be an old hunter and done most of it...from a stick and a string to my Zeiss , so I know which side of the tree is rubbed.
But like I said....one side tries to get along, and one doesn't.
I'm just curious.... You're gonna duck hunt ? Released birds ? I mean, it was 80 degrees today...shouldnt be a wild bird within 400 miles of here. Or you got some woodies in a hole ?
Surely you aren't one of those using the little yellow decoys....LOL
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Athletic Dir [864]
TigerPulse: 93%
Posts: 3124
Joined: 12/8/11
|
6pintails...u got that right.***
Jan 13, 2013, 11:18 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Athletic Dir [864]
TigerPulse: 93%
Posts: 3124
Joined: 12/8/11
|
This will be the longest thread in the history of tnet***
Jan 13, 2013, 11:23 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Freshman [7]
TigerPulse: 36%
Posts: 12
Joined: 1/11/13
|
no yellow decoys for me
Jan 13, 2013, 11:33 PM
|
|
Lol The temp doesnt bother the teal too much. Heck early teal season it was 89 degrees and we killed our limit. I know its not gonna be a great morning but the season is running out and i dont know how many more times ill have a week day off and be able to avoid the crowd.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
CU Guru [1218]
TigerPulse: 89%
Posts: 1965
Joined: 9/27/05
|
Pintails, I killed a pair of sprigs, 2 gaddies, a black and
Jan 14, 2013, 12:00 AM
|
|
a a pair of widgeon yesterday in the ACE Basin. Crappy weather but my lab and I enjoyed it. Treasure your time outdoors, my friend!
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Athletic Dir [864]
TigerPulse: 93%
Posts: 3124
Joined: 12/8/11
|
My idea of hunting for deer
Jan 13, 2013, 11:49 PM
|
|
Walking through the land...no dogs no deer stands....
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [3677]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 9417
Joined: 5/31/06
|
Re: How do you hunters and dog lovers feel about this?
Jan 14, 2013, 12:51 AM
|
|
sick
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
110%er [5035]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 8289
Joined: 12/9/12
|
Re: How do you hunters and dog lovers feel about this?
Jan 14, 2013, 2:44 AM
|
|
I am avid hunter myself and I personally do not choose to chase or any wildlife for that matter with dogs. It just takes everything huntin is about out of the sport. I have been in the stand PLENTY of times on leased land or my own land and have had dogs walk in. Unfortunately its apart of hunting. I just don't have the heart to lay a K9 down. That guy should have thought better of that. You move to a different position or you just count your losses and move on to tomorrow.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [4096]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 5219
Joined: 10/23/10
|
We don't shoot dogs AND ....
Jan 14, 2013, 5:20 AM
|
|
sitting on your fat #### in a tree ambushing deer with your 30-06 is not hunting ....
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
110%er [5035]
TigerPulse: 88%
Posts: 8289
Joined: 12/9/12
|
Re: We don't shoot dogs AND ....
Jan 14, 2013, 8:51 AM
|
|
Huh? So what is your idea of hunting? Running them out of their bedding areas with a few muts?
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [2563]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 4860
Joined: 10/2/08
|
curious jesebel...Is it hunting if you man drive him out of
Jan 14, 2013, 9:31 AM
|
|
their bedding area ?
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Ignorantia juris non excusat.******
Jan 14, 2013, 8:08 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Heisman Winner [108390]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 64974
Joined: 2/25/06
|
that's good mr. law dog, cause law don't go round here.***
Jan 14, 2013, 9:44 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
110%er [7831]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 20489
Joined: 10/9/04
|
You have a problem with reading comprehension?
Jan 14, 2013, 8:23 AM
|
|
He was a member of both clubs, so he was not trespassing
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
110%er [5508]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5760
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Trying to figure out what this has to do with Clemson***
Jan 14, 2013, 8:27 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Freshman [7]
TigerPulse: 36%
Posts: 12
Joined: 1/11/13
|
Re: Pintails, I killed a pair of sprigs, 2 gaddies, a black and
Jan 14, 2013, 9:31 AM
|
|
Hey thats an awesome day, especially in sc, congrats. I did about how i thought I would this morning, 2 blue wings and 2 woodies but not a bad morning. I cant believe its so daymn hot.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
110%er [5084]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 5811
Joined: 8/7/01
|
Hunting primarily the Upstate, dog hunting doesn't affect me
Jan 14, 2013, 9:47 AM
|
|
However, shooting another hunter's dog is completely irresponsible. Dogs can't read posted signs. Doggers have to be held accountable too knowing the potential conflicts of letting dogs out near another property. I've had many instances of both neighbor dogs and strays run past me while I was on the deer stand. Can be frustrating, but I've never considered shooting them unless I felt threatened. You never know what they might be pushing past you, could be your lucky day.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Orange Blooded [3389]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 3043
Joined: 10/22/07
|
I picked up THREE abandoned hunting beagles
Jan 14, 2013, 10:22 AM
|
|
in the past 12 months. All three had issues, but the one I found roaming I-85 outside of Cowpens was a clear case of animal neglect/borderline abuse. Our local rescue groups were virtually no help, because they are absolutely overwhelmed with the number of abandoned beagles they have to deal with.
Personally, I'm done with people who use them in packs for rabbit hunting. There's way too much inbreeding and abandonment going on. Something in needs to happen to tighten regulations on breeding & use.
Regarding the hunter who shot the other hunter's dog----I'm not surprised, honestly. When I lived in Iowa, I knew a guy whose hunting buddy got so frustrated with his own dog during a hunt, he put him down on the spot. I think it happens more often than some people know.
That said, if I ever saw it happen someone would be swallowing their own teeth.
|
|
|
|
![](https://2cic.b-cdn.net/t/forum/b.gif) |
Virtuoso [644]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2331
Joined: 6/4/03
|
There are more dogs than just deer dogs
Jan 14, 2013, 8:08 PM
|
|
I run bird dogs and I don't trust the deer hunters not to shoot my dog. This means I give up my time to hunt waiting for deer season to end. You would think a GPS collar with antennas, an ecollar, and a regular collar make it pretty obvious that the dog is not wild but I'm not taking my chances. I have way too much money invested to take the chance. If mine run a deer they get shocked, but if I can't see them do it I can't stop it.
Those of you saying hunting dogs aren't treated right have no clue what your talking about. My hunting dogs are laying on the couch right now. They get fed better food than most pets and I spend a lot of time in money to be sure they are in top condition. A malnourished dog is worthless to me. Yes my dog looks skinny especially next to your couch potato that's obese! Maybe you should put fido on a diet before critiquing how others care for theirs.
|
|
|
|
Replies: 73
| visibility 1
|
|
|