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For the "Brad Brownell is inconsistent" crowd...
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All-In [44054]
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For the "Brad Brownell is inconsistent" crowd...
Feb 9, 2021, 1:41 PM
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Let's talk about that.
I will use the example of Shaka Smart, a coach who many of us are familiar with due to his time as Purnell's assistant who went on to have success at VCU and is now at Texas. I've seen a lot of posts here in recent years wanting Shaka Smart to be our coach. So let's look at Texas's performance so far this year:
They started 4-0, including a win over North Carolina.
Then they lost to Villanova.
Then they won 6 games in a row, including wins over Oklahoma State, Kansas, and West Virginia.
Then they lost 4 of 5, including to Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Baylor, and Oklahoma State. They are currently on a 3 game losing streak.
They are now 11-5 overall, 5-4 in the Big XII (6th place out of 10 teams).
Do you consider that consistent?
Looking at his tenure at Texas:
2015-2016, made NCAA Tournament (although I learned on TigerNet that this doesn't count, since he did it with the prior coach's players). They were 20-13 overall, finishing 4th in the Big XII, and lost in the first round.
2016-2017, they finished 11-22, 10th in their conference, and did not play in the postseason.
2017-2018, they finished 19-15, tied for 6th in their conference, and made the NCAA Tournament. Once again, they lost in the first round.
2018-2019, they finished 6th in their conference and made the NIT. They were NIT champs.
2019-2020, they finished 19-12, 9-9 in their conference, and were not in the postseason since it was canceled due to COVID. They were projected as one of the first four out or next four out of the NCAA Tournament when the season was canceled. So this was a likely NIT season.
Do you consider his tenure at Texas consistent?
Let's not forget that he's making over $3 million a year at a school which had gone to the NCAA Tournament 34 times in its history, including 16 of the 17 seasons before he arrived. In other words, he went to a program with a lot of success in its history that supports basketball well.
I think it's fair to say that Shaka, who is a good coach by all indications, is having trouble at Texas with consistency.
Perhaps - and I'm just throwing this out there - consistency in college basketball is a ridiculous expectation. Fool's gold, if you will. Good coaches (and Shaka is a good coach, though perhaps overrated here by some) can't get 18-22 year-olds to play well every night for 30+ games a year. Even the elite teams have down nights sometimes.
Just food for thought as we enter the stretch run of this "inconsistent" season we have been having (one that currently has us clearly in the NCAA Tournament with a lot of good wins on our resume).
Go Tigers! Beat the Bees on Friday!
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Orange Blooded [3405]
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Re: For the "Brad Brownell is inconsistent" crowd...
Feb 9, 2021, 2:00 PM
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Well I’m not going to dive in depth at all, but just this year Texas has lost 5 games by a total of 29 points which is an average loss of 8 points. Their one outlier was a loss by 14, the rest were single digit losses, and 2 one possession losses.
Clemson has lost 5 games by a combined 104 points which is an average loss of 21 points per game. 4 of Clemson’s losses were blowouts.
I haven’t watched Texas play, but I’ll go out on a limb and say, winning aside they have played more consistent game to game than Clemson has.
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All-In [44054]
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So your concern about our "inconsistency" this year
Feb 9, 2021, 2:14 PM
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is less about winning and losing, and more about the few games we lost by a large margin?
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Legend [16136]
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It's almost like the goal posts get moved on a yearly basis***
Feb 9, 2021, 2:25 PM
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Commissioner [963]
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Re: It's almost like the goal posts get moved on a yearly basis***
Feb 9, 2021, 3:59 PM
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+1 for the football reference, since that's the only language many on here can understand.
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Orange Blooded [3405]
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Re: So your concern about our "inconsistency" this year
Feb 9, 2021, 2:28 PM
[ in reply to So your concern about our "inconsistency" this year ] |
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Well I think that is what consistency means. If the team plays well consistently and happens to lose a few close ones, i can understand that. I wouldn't be happy with the loses, but I could understand it. Blowouts are the opposite of consistency.
Clemson football has become a consistent program. We aren't perfect, and we do lose games, but we don't get blown out any more and we generally win the games we are supposed to.
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All-In [44054]
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The main point of my original post is that the idea of
Feb 9, 2021, 2:58 PM
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consistency in college basketball is flawed. Consistency of effort? Sure, I'm good with that. But that doesn't guarantee consistency of results.
I'm not sure why you bring up Clemson football as an example. We have the highest paid coaching staff in college football, the finest facilities in college football, and also have plenty of elite talent all over the field. That is on top of a strong football tradition at Clemson and rabid fan and administrative support. We are head and shoulders above any other football team in the ACC in terms of recent success and national prominence. We are favored to win every single regular season football game we play.
And despite those significant advantages Clemson football has, we still managed to get blown out each of the last two years in the playoffs. So although we've been very consistent during the regular season every year lately, and thus consistent in making the playoffs, we have been quite inconsistent when we play other top teams in the playoffs.
So if an elite football team like Clemson can't be consistent in the games it plays against an opponent of roughly equal standing, how do you expect Clemson basketball to be consistent when it routinely plays teams that have more talent and resources? That's especially true in a sport like basketball that plays more games and is more subject to a lopsided score one way or the other.
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Another BS comment about basketball vs football
Feb 9, 2021, 5:34 PM
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To compare 2 losses in football to the ones in Basketball is a stretch at best and absolute BS at its core.
The football team lost 2 games - both to top 4 teams.
The basketball team got blown out by
#9 UVA
Unranked GT 9-6 who lost to Georgia State and Mercer
17 Florida State
Unranked Duke who is 2-5 in past 5 games
To compare 2 losses in playoffs to those is off base.
A loss is a loss, but also being competitive is different from blown out.
Consistent is how we play and not necessarily wins and losses.
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All-In [44054]
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It can only be about football
Feb 9, 2021, 7:44 PM
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if it’s used to disparage our basketball team and/or glorify football.
Got it.
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110%er [7114]
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Sorry to have to refute you, but
Feb 9, 2021, 2:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: So your concern about our "inconsistency" this year ] |
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Clemson football has been blown out twice in the last two seasons - both in the CFP against great teams. That indicates a trend that isn’t good. Hopefully Dabo gets that figured out and we go back to being competitive against anybody and everybody.
It’s absurd to compare Clemson football to basketball. Clemson football has a firm foundation that predicts continued success for years to come. We have absolutely no idea what Clemson basketball will be next season.
Oh, one more thing... “recency bias”. ??
It’s called a TREND. Winners don’t make excuses and defend bad trends... winners know how to fix them. Winners right the ship in less than eleven years.
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Orange Blooded [3405]
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Re: Sorry to have to refute you, but
Feb 9, 2021, 9:44 PM
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Eh. I guess it’s semantics but I guess I don’t consider 21 and 17 point losses “blowouts” in football. I’d say both are convincing wins, but not blowouts especially since we also score 3 TDs and 4 TDs in those games. I’d say our 31-0 wins or 30-3 wins in previous years were more blowouts because not only did we put up a bunch of points but also kept ND and Ohio State from scoring.
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Heisman Winner [111631]
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Personally, I find Clemson Basketball far more enterntaining
Feb 9, 2021, 2:12 PM
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in not knowing if we are going to get blown out, or blow out the other team. It is win-win, either it frees up part of my day, or I get to watch the Tigers pile on some ACC foe.
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All-In [44054]
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We really haven't had many blowouts under Brad.
Feb 9, 2021, 2:16 PM
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If you look back over his tenure, most games have been competitive and close. The blowout games, either for us or against us, are the outliers.
Recency bias is absolutely a factor here.
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Heisman Winner [111631]
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Re: We really haven't had many blowouts under Brad.
Feb 9, 2021, 2:32 PM
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I watched the Syracuse and UNC games, those were blowouts, so was Duke. We are Dr Jeckell and Mr Brick.
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All-In [40777]
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All-In [44054]
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Recency bias. Look into it.***
Feb 9, 2021, 2:59 PM
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All-In [40777]
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I’m sorry. Were you referring to the fact that we can consistently expect
Feb 9, 2021, 3:23 PM
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to finish right at or rather below .500 in ACC play nearly every year?
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All-In [44054]
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No, I'm referring to the ridiculous notion that consistency
Feb 9, 2021, 3:48 PM
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of results in college basketball is attainable.
Some of our "fans" here whine about how inconsistent we are under Brownell, and use the three games we lost immediately following the COVID pause as an example.
Meanwhile, they ignore the fact that we have won 3 of our last 4 games and are an NCAA Tournament team this year.
This is supposed to be fun, and many of these "fans" setup this weird criteria for success, and move the goal posts from year to year or week to week to seemingly make it harder for themselves to be pleased. It's a strange phenomenon.
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All-In [40777]
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I know. These guys did the same thing with Tommy Bowden.
Feb 9, 2021, 4:23 PM
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I don’t get it.
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All-In [44054]
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And we have another Tommy Bowden reference.
Feb 9, 2021, 7:45 PM
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In a basketball thread.
For the nth time.
You guys never disappoint.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: For the "Brad Brownell is inconsistent" crowd...
Feb 9, 2021, 2:16 PM
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This is just yet another way to accept mediocrity...all you've done is change the word to inconsistency and said it's ok.
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All-In [44054]
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Link to where I said it's okay to be mediocre?
Feb 9, 2021, 2:19 PM
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Also, I don't consider our performance this year to be mediocre.
Do you know what mediocre means? I'm not sure that you do.
Mediocre teams don't do well playing one of the toughest schedules in the country.
Mediocre teams don't beat multiple NCAA Tournament teams.
Mediocre teams don't find themselves a virtual shoe-in for the NCAA Tournament at this point in the season.
Of course our goal should be to win every game, but having that as the goal is different from expecting that to happen over the course of a whole season. This isn't college football. Running the table isn't going to happen.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: Link to where I said it's okay to be mediocre?
Feb 9, 2021, 2:24 PM
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If it's not obvious to you that we have been mediocre overall during Brad's tenure, you are more of a lost cause than even I thought.
The ACC is WAY down right now and we are still mid-pack.
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All-In [44054]
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Do you even know what mediocre means?
Feb 9, 2021, 3:00 PM
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I don't think you do.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: Do you even know what mediocre means?
Feb 9, 2021, 3:44 PM
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I would say NCAA Tourney bids every 2-3 years is mediocre. Too bad we haven't been able to accomplish that.
This looks mediocre, though:
9-7 (4/12)
8-8 (7/12)
5-13 (11/12)
10-8 (6/15)
8-10 (9/15)
10-8 (7/15)
6-12 (12/15)
11-7 (3/15)
9-9 (8/15)
9-11 (9/15)
Those are our last 10 years' ACC records and final rank (included the number of teams in conference).
Winning records: 4
Losing records: 4
.500 records: 2
Finish in top half of conference: 4
Finish in bottom half of conference: 6
So, find yourself a mirror and ask yourself the question you asked me.
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All-In [44054]
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Realizing that consistent results are not realistic
Feb 9, 2021, 4:02 PM
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in college basketball is not the same as "accepting mediocrity."
Thanks for posting Brad's records, but your fixation on his 11 year record minimizes the season we are having this year and the positives within the program over the past few years.
You stated in another thread that the ACC is down this year, and that we should be higher than where we are now (7th). What ACC position would make you happy with the season this year?
Please, tell us.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: Realizing that consistent results are not realistic
Feb 9, 2021, 4:51 PM
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Not middle of the pack, which is 7-8, and the same place we always are. That is not progress, that is mediocrity. We are basically UofSC finishing middle of the SEC East while Florida and Tennessee were terrible and Georgia was down. Not impressed.
You keep saying consistent results are not realistic...well, we have been consistently mediocre for 11 years now.
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Orange Blooded [3369]
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Re: Link to where I said it's okay to be mediocre?
Feb 9, 2021, 4:01 PM
[ in reply to Link to where I said it's okay to be mediocre? ] |
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But good teams don’t get blow out by every good team they play . Yeah we beat some decent teams but that’s all we are to just decent.
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All-In [44054]
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Oh, we've been blown out by every good team we play?
Feb 9, 2021, 4:09 PM
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Such as Purdue, who is currently #24, who we beat by 11 points earlier this year?
And Alabama, who is currently #11, who we beat by 8 points this year?
And Florida State, who is currently #17, who we beat by 10 points this year?
And Louisville, who is currently #31, who we beat by 4 points this year?
And North Carolina, who is currently #36, who we beat by 13 points this year?
Not only did we NOT get blown out by these good teams, but we BEAT them (by an average of over 8 points).
We are better than decent. You do realize that we would be firmly in the NCAA Tournament field if it started today, right?
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CU Guru [1019]
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Re: Oh, we've been blown out by every good team we play?
Feb 9, 2021, 10:59 PM
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Don’t have the time or energy to do the research y’all do, but I admire the Judge’s points. Even .500 play in the ACC by a school like Clemson is not mediocre. Judge what about next year’s recruiting class? Not that impressive when you look at schools we beat out.
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All-In [44054]
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I’m not as excited about the 2021 class as I wish I were.
Feb 10, 2021, 10:03 AM
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I don’t see a P.J. Hall or an Olivier Maxence-Prosper in that class.
However, it is ranked #40 at the moment so that’s not bad. All three guys are considered 3 star players and we ideally need 4 stars to get where we need to go. Hopefully we have a diamond in the rough or two in this class.
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Scout Team [153]
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Re: Link to where I said it's okay to be mediocre?
Feb 9, 2021, 8:39 PM
[ in reply to Link to where I said it's okay to be mediocre? ] |
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Two things. You can't compare Brownell to Smart. Two different type of coaches. Brownell has had 11 years Smart not even close.
Two. Our ACC schedule is not that difficult. I know more ACC schools that have had to play higher teams in the ACC standings twice. When we played Alabama, Purdue at the beginning of the year they were finding their way. Mississippi St is not that good. Purdue has been up and down. Alabama is starting to fall off.
Leonardi had Alabama a two seed last week. Had us a 3 seed at one time. come on man.
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All-In [44054]
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Why are you working so hard to discredit our team?
Feb 10, 2021, 10:09 AM
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Are you even a Clemson basketball fan?
According to your post:
-It isn’t fair to compare Brownell to Shaka since they have different coaching styles and haven’t been at their schools the same length of time.
-Our ACC schedule isn’t difficult because other teams in the ACC have also played more games against the top half of the conference
-Beating Alabama and Purdue isn’t impressive because it was early in the year and those teams were still figuring things out
It must be really miserable with your outlook.
What needs to happen in order for you to be happy about this season?
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Orange Blooded [4510]
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I watched the Syracuse game and
Feb 9, 2021, 2:25 PM
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as of today, I believe Brad is one of the top 3 coaches in the country... quite frankly, putting him any lower than 1 on that list is disrespectful. Let's ride this wave all the way to the Final Four, and then anything can happen once you're there. It would be tough to convince me that Brownell doesn't deserve a lifetime contract at this point. Anybody can disagree if they want, but they're wrong
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All-TigerNet [11487]
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Bad example...
Feb 9, 2021, 2:27 PM
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They have been ranked all season and recent negative play is team got COVID positives including coach Smart who was affected physically from virus.
Why do you always use as a comparison? Most are not saying we should hire him instead of Brad...
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All-In [44054]
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It's not a bad example at all.
Feb 9, 2021, 3:05 PM
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It is a very fair example, since his name is routinely brought up on the wish list of people's next head basketball coach at Clemson.
I learned here that COVID can't be used as an excuse, despite the fact that we are 12-2 this year outside of the one week of games immediately following our COVID pause. For us, COVID was an outlier this year, and not a trend that encompasses most or all of the season.
So if COVID isn't an excuse for us, then it shouldn't be one for Texas either.
Plus, I also illustrated the inconsistency in Texas basketball during the entirety of Smart's tenure, not just this year.
College basketball isn't going to be nearly as straightforward as college football. People need to realize that.
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Scout Team [153]
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Re: It's not a bad example at all.
Feb 9, 2021, 8:41 PM
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We had our chance two years ago to get the right coach. He is now at VA Tech. He has the contacts in S Carolina as he was at Wofford for years.
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110%er [5084]
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Fact, Brownell has the most wins in Clemson basketball history
Feb 9, 2021, 2:36 PM
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Fact, had any of the other 6 coaches over the last 50 years been given the same amount of time as Brownell, only Tates Locke and Larry Shyatt would fall short of his win total.
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All-In [44054]
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And if your aunt had balls, she would be your uncle.***
Feb 9, 2021, 3:06 PM
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110%er [5084]
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Maybe she does, but it doesnt change the fact that Clemson admin is OK with mediocre hoops.***
Feb 9, 2021, 3:10 PM
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All-In [44054]
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You do realize that we are a bona fide NCAA Tournament
Feb 9, 2021, 3:11 PM
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team this year, right?
Posts like yours make it sound like we are a .500 team that is scraping to get into the NIT.
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110%er [5084]
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Yeah, this year...Over the longhaul , Brownell is mediocre at best.
Feb 9, 2021, 3:54 PM
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Most years we are fighting for a spot in the NIT. If you are good with that then shame on you. I hope we finish strong and make the NCAA, fingers crossed, but wont hold my breath.
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All-In [44054]
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So despite the fact that we are in the midst of a season
Feb 9, 2021, 4:10 PM
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where we have played a very tough schedule, and have multiple wins over top 25 teams, and are clearly in the NCAA Tournament, you want to talk about prior seasons that didn't meet your expectations?
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110%er [5084]
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I guess the sun does shine on a dogs butt every once in a while***
Feb 9, 2021, 4:17 PM
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110%er [5512]
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110%er [5512]
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Re: So despite the fact that we are in the midst of a season
Feb 9, 2021, 4:56 PM
[ in reply to So despite the fact that we are in the midst of a season ] |
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where we have played a very tough schedule, and have multiple wins over top 25 teams, and are clearly in the NCAA Tournament, you want to talk about prior seasons that didn't meet your expectations?
We have 3 wins over top 25 teams...all 3 of them were in 2020. One of them was FSU who turned around and beat us by about 20 a month later...and the game was not as close as the final score indicated. This again points to INCONSISTENCY, Judge.
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All-In [44054]
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So now you’re complaining about our team just since the new year
Feb 9, 2021, 7:56 PM
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and throwing out our accomplishments during November and December? Even though it’s all part of this season?!?
It seems that you’re changing the argument just so you can whine and criticize the team.
Do you even want Clemson basketball to be successful? Because you are going out of your way to convince yourself that we aren’t.
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110%er [5512]
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Re: So now you’re complaining about our team just since the new year
Feb 10, 2021, 8:45 AM
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How many different ways does "inconsistent" have to be explained to you before you get your head out of the sand?
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All-TigerNet [11487]
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All-In [44054]
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You said earlier that Shaka Smart is a bad example
Feb 9, 2021, 3:08 PM
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for me to use, so I'm not sure why you are posting about him again.
But to answer your question, of course the COVID pause has affected them, just as it did us. It's not at all the same as a team simply taking a week or two off from playing games.
Again, if mentioning COVID is just an excuse for us, and shouldn't be used to justify our poor performance, then the same should apply to Texas or any other team.
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All-TigerNet [11487]
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Re: You said earlier that Shaka Smart is a bad example
Feb 9, 2021, 4:51 PM
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Yes. But Smart and some players missed games. How would we do if Brad was out and some players? You’re such a big fan of Brad how would we do if his assistants were in charge?
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All-In [46574]
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Legend [19610]
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He's the Tommy Bowden of Basketball.
Feb 9, 2021, 2:40 PM
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He'll always keep you hopeful. He'll even pull off a few stunners.
But in the back of your mind, you know that there is a turd game around the corner. An embarrassing blowout or a big game meltdown is coming.
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All-In [44054]
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Another post comparing Clemson basketball to football.
Feb 9, 2021, 3:09 PM
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And it's always done to disparage our basketball program in some way.
You guys are too predictable.
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Legend [19610]
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Water is wet. Truth is truth Judge.***
Feb 10, 2021, 6:19 AM
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CU Guru [1676]
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Re: For the "Brad Brownell is inconsistent" crowd...
Feb 9, 2021, 2:44 PM
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This thread is hilarious.
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All-TigerNet [11487]
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Re: For the "Brad Brownell is inconsistent" crowd...***
Feb 9, 2021, 2:46 PM
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All-TigerNet [11487]
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Re: For the "Brad Brownell is inconsistent" crowd...
Feb 9, 2021, 2:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: For the "Brad Brownell is inconsistent" crowd... ] |
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This thread is hilarious.
This ..
This is a lousy example. Didn't even go into Texas bad bout from COVID including Smart. How does he think we would have been coaching without Brad for games? Might have even been better without Brad...
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All-In [44054]
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110%er [5482]
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Re: I agree, the lack of awareness and insight
Feb 9, 2021, 7:55 PM
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I think others need to respect the right of others to have other opinions.
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All-In [48345]
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Re: For the "Brad Brownell is inconsistent" crowd...
Feb 9, 2021, 2:51 PM
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Won't delve into a debate about any coach vs another. But let's take one from our past. We know Barnes is a good coach. It's a gamble on anyone if in fact CBB was replaced.
I do know "other" colleges considered traditional football schools, namely OSU, Fla, Fla St, Mich, Oklahoma have had success at multiple sports. There's no reason that Clemson shouldn't have an expectation to make the NCAA every year. True, all teams will have an off year from time to time. But imo, appearances most years.
So the real question is how long do you give a coach to build a really good solid winning program. To date, I would have to say CBB hasn't come close to building that.
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All-In [44054]
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Of course we should strive for success at Clemson
Feb 9, 2021, 3:41 PM
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when it comes to basketball.
No one at Clemson, including Radakovich and Brownell, is happy not making the NCAA Tournament (which we will this year, by the way). Nor should they be.
I agree that we should expect to make the NCAAs every year. As I've posted many times, to do that we need:
-Great facilities, which we not only build but maintain and enhance regularly
-A budget for Brad to hire the assistant coaches he needs
-A budget to hire the support staff we need (recruiting help, social media, marketing, etc.)
-Consistent fan support
These are even more important at a place like Clemson, known as a football school that doesn't care about basketball. That perception is reinforced by our poor basketball history. So we not only have to do things as well as the blue blood programs, but do them better.
All of the above have never been in place at Clemson at the same time with any consistency when it comes to basketball. Thankfully, the new facilities were built a few years ago and since that time, Brad was also able to make some key hires for his staff. Not surprisingly, we have seen recruiting improve since we now have the things in place to recruit better.
For me, I don't view this as year 11, but more like year 3 or 4 given the fact that Brad now has more of what he needs to be successful.
I believe we are in great shape moving forward. We have good talent (by Clemson standards, anyway) and are on track to make the NCAA Tournament this year. We also have a nice distribution of talent, with veterans and young players. As long as we continue recruiting top 30-40 classes (with the obvious goal of improving on that), use the transfer market to our advantage when needed, are able to keep the staff in place, and have good fan support (especially once COVID restrictions are behind us), I believe we will be that perennial NCAA Tournament team and can reach heights we haven't seen at Clemson before.
We can't expect our basketball coach to work miracles every year in terms of wins and postseason play, but not realize the sacrifices it takes on the athletic department level to get there. Viewing basketball like a second-class sport, and supporting it as an afterthought, while expecting the team to be successful in a conference loaded with basketball schools, is ridiculous.
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Orange Blooded [2123]
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Let’s say you’ve been named the CU AD...
Feb 9, 2021, 5:08 PM
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Let’s just say.
Somehow, the Tigers miss the NCAA tourney this season. What’s your response? What (if any) moves do you make?
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All-In [44054]
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If we miss the NCAA Tournament I would want to know
Feb 9, 2021, 8:10 PM
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how close we were. Was it a last second shot that kept us out? Was it a significant injury or two? Did the team quit?
Details matter, but not making the NCAA Tournament would generally be a significant check in the cons column when deciding whether to let Brad come back for another year.
I do think COVID should be a consideration, but that alone wouldn’t excuse a disappointing season.
I would certainly want to know what other coaches are out there and possibly available.
If I brought Brad back, I would do it under very specific terms with the understanding that the leash is very short. The buyout would need to be lowered to make it easy for Clemson to move on if we found ourselves in the same boat a year down the road.
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110%er [9731]
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Groundhog Day.***
Feb 10, 2021, 6:57 AM
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All-In [48345]
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Re: Of course we should strive for success at Clemson
Feb 9, 2021, 8:22 PM
[ in reply to Of course we should strive for success at Clemson ] |
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Bump for both posts. Well laid out arguments and can dispute none. Well, the fan support will be there with winning. No concern there... But will always be tough to pack during the week. Students could help with a little more support.
I can speak for myself, I've never followed as close as you obvious have, so I have what probably amounts to a knee jerk response on not winning without considering the intricacies of the details.
We need to put in place what you laid out. Got my vote and $$$. Thanks for the response.
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CU Medallion [67853]
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Re: For the "Brad Brownell is inconsistent" crowd...
Feb 9, 2021, 3:01 PM
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Not arguing your point. Barns had Texas rolling for years. Consistently very good but couldnt bet Kansas. Then they lost it and struggled. Even with Smart they continue to struggle. Not sure why but they do now
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All-In [32656]
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This feels an AWFUL lot like a Tommy Bowden post from 15
Feb 9, 2021, 3:13 PM
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years ago . . . .
I'm gonna read it on my phone while nibbling on grass later today. Should be fun and I'm SURE will make me feel MUCH better about the last 11 years of Clemson Men's Varsity basketyball.
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All-In [44054]
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Congratulations, you are the third person in this thread
Feb 9, 2021, 3:50 PM
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to bring up Tommy Bowden.
Do you feel better now?
FYI, Bowden has nothing to do with Brad Brownell or Clemson basketball.
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Orange Blooded [4035]
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Nor does Texas and Coach Smart - but you brought it up
Feb 9, 2021, 5:51 PM
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So you can bring up other people but not others?
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All-In [44054]
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I stick to college basketball, and used a coach to illustrate
Feb 9, 2021, 8:16 PM
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the fact that inconsistency isn’t unique to Clemson.
I also didn’t use my example to criticize our team.
Bringing up Bowden is not the same thing at all.
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CU Medallion [58424]
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Clemson has averaged 8th place finish in the ACC under
Apr 27, 2019, 4:09 PM
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Brad Brownell, having finished higher than 6th only twice in 10 years. Everything else ultimately becomes irrelevant.
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All-In [44054]
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Since we are an NCAA Tournament team this year
Feb 9, 2021, 8:17 PM
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I’ll assume that you are pleased with the job Brad is doing.
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CU Medallion [58424]
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Just like I was happy when Tommy Bowden got us to a
Feb 9, 2021, 8:44 PM
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decent bowl.
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CU Guru [1746]
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Brownell is consistent
Feb 9, 2021, 4:04 PM
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at being mediocre. We all know to what to expect at this point Im very apathetic to Clemson basketball. When we win big I cheer, when we lose I just say meh and move on...I've learned not to waste any worries on that.
The ultimate measure of success for a school like Clemson is NCAAT appearances. Brownell has a decade long resume working against him on this. If you want to take it further, he has been a coach now for 19 seasons and has only made a NCAAT with his own players twice. His other 3 appearances (one each at UNCW, Wright St and Clemson) came the first year after taking over at each program. He took over tournament teams at two of those stops.
We are having a good year and Im glad for it. Lets follow it up with another one next year.
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CU Medallion [64591]
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Just because Shaka Smart is inconsistent at Texas...
Feb 9, 2021, 4:24 PM
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DOES NOT mean it's OK for Brownell's teams to be inconsistent.
At the end of the day, by most accounts, THIS was supposed to be the best team during Brownell's tenure at Clemson and, on that basis, this was an "NCAA Tournament or bust" season for him.
I do not disagree with that assessment.
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All-In [44054]
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Virtually every college basketball team is inconsistent.
Feb 9, 2021, 8:19 PM
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That’s precisely my point. Expecting our team to play well every night and win or just barely lose every game isn’t realistic.
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CU Medallion [64591]
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Losing by 30 and 40 points isn't realistic either.***
Feb 10, 2021, 8:12 AM
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All-In [44054]
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Those were bad losses and I’m not denying that.
Feb 10, 2021, 10:16 AM
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But they are anomalies under Brad, not the rule.
And there is an explanation for them. They all occurred within close proximity to COVID pause. And we have since recovered from it and are playing well.
We have won 3 of 4 games and are an NCAA Tournament team according to every prediction right now, yet many of you still want to whine about the three game losing streak last month or something you don’t like from earlier in his 11 year tenure.
We are having a good season. This is supposed to be fun.
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CU Medallion [64591]
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They are not anomalies THIS season***
Feb 10, 2021, 12:30 PM
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All-In [44054]
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Yes they are anomalies this season.
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50
