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All-In [40100]
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.17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 27, 2020, 2:57 PM
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Sometimes I’m a slow decider. I have asked in the past about a .22 and I think most people recommended a Ruger. Well my wife saw 3 coyotes last Sunday. So it’s time for me to get a varmint gun. Always thought I’d get a .22 but lately have been told by two different people I should get a .17. Thoughts?
By the way, for those who remember me asking about a tractor earlier, I ended up going with a John Deere 1025R which is working pretty well for me. 30 acres but roughly half is woods. Other I keep up with Bush hogging and belly mower on the JD. originally my biggest concern was the bush hog, 4 foot vs 5. But after I bush hogged I can now most of that with the 5 foot deck. So mostly am happy with that. It is the compact. Also got the tiller and it did just fine for our garden.
Message was edited by: lovingit®
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All-TigerNet [13253]
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Kill 3 coyotes
Jul 27, 2020, 3:01 PM
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and you'll see 6 next spring.
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All-In [27344]
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Re: Kill 3 coyotes
Jul 27, 2020, 3:42 PM
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This exactly!!!!!!!!
I would try everything possible to deter them away and not kill them. They have a roll call and as soon as one doesn’t sound off the female or females will repopulate the herd.
Joe Rogan has some dude on his podcast. He was like the coyote master. It was very informative. Google joe rogan coyote podcast and you can listen to it.
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CU Medallion [50987]
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Re: Kill 3 coyotes
Jul 28, 2020, 9:10 PM
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Someone should have explained the math before I did this
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All-TigerNet [13253]
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Roll call happens each night, and
Jul 28, 2020, 9:38 PM
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if any members of the pack go missing, the females of pack will bread more frequently, and have more pups in their next litter to offset the loses to the pack.
Since mass killing of coyotes started in the 1850's, their range has more than tripled and numbers have increased.
Further, when one or both members of the dominant pair of a pack re are killed, socially bonded packs will break up, and subordinate members disperse to find new mates and reproduce.
These four you killed, probably lead to an additional 8-10 coyotes being born on their next litter.
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Commissioner [970]
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Re: Roll call happens each night, and
Jul 29, 2020, 11:00 AM
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Do female coyotes come in heat more often than female dogs? If I had a coyote problem I would actively hunt the female members of the pack. I would use bait, I would stalk them, and I would target the females. I've never hunted coyotes so this method may be naive,simplistic, and ineffective.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Roll call happens each night, and
Jul 29, 2020, 1:58 PM
[ in reply to Roll call happens each night, and ] |
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Also a note on the 1850s blurb - since that time, we also killed other apex predators that would out-compete/outright kill coyotes. The combination of the loss of wolves and large cats with a reduction the loss wild lands made current NA a coyote habitat.
Coyotes are basically a small-territory plains/prairie hunter of small rodents, birds, etc. Quasi om-nom-ivors.
So basically we made prairies....
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CU Medallion [50987]
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This might be true to some extent as I have read that a
Jul 29, 2020, 1:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Kill 3 coyotes ] |
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change in the population of several species in regards to gender percentages will result in more births of the gender with small numbers, but considering that 3 of the 4 I killed were female, the surviving females would need to really be productive to match the typical number pf pups produced by 3 mature females over the same amount of time. I can't believe that anyone would try to "deter" the presence of the pack instead of taking out a mature coyote - it could do more damage in a few weeks than they future generation might down the road. Additionally , any ecosystem can support only a finite number of any species and they need to disperse when the food source is no longer available relative to the predator population. Coyotes are smart enough that they won't revisit an area where they have been shot at or find dead members of their pack - at least in the daylight hours. DNR encourages shooting all coyotes encountered while hunting other species and continue to offer an incentive to do so .
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All-TigerNet [13253]
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Re: This might be true to some extent as I have read that a
Jul 30, 2020, 2:10 PM
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approximately 500,000 coyotes are killed each year. Despite that, they continue to grow in population as a response to deaths in the pack.
Taken from a National Geographic article.
The normal size is five to six pups. When their populations are suppressed, their litters get up as high as 12 to 16 pups. You can reduce the numbers of coyotes in a given area by 70 percent but the next summer their population will be back to the original number. They use their howls and yipping to create a kind of census of coyote populations. If their howls are not answered by other packs, it triggers an autogenic response that produces large litters.
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Orange Blooded [4276]
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Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 27, 2020, 3:02 PM
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I've used .22 Magnum HP to knock down hogs for the butchering... They should be the ideal caliber for varmints on 4 legs...2,too...
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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Got an old Winchester pump .22mag... Sweet shooting plinker.***
Jul 27, 2020, 11:42 PM
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Orange Blooded [2936]
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Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 27, 2020, 3:05 PM
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I have both and the 22 has Dust on it now. Took the .17 heavy barrel to Wyoming on a Prairie dog hunt and was doing work up to 300 yards. It’s a little faster and flatter shooting than the 22. However the .17 is a little more expensive to shoot but not to bad . Have also killed coyotes with it.
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All-In [40100]
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What manufacturer did you go with on the .17?***
Jul 27, 2020, 3:14 PM
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Orange Blooded [2936]
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Re: What manufacturer did you go with on the .17?***
Jul 27, 2020, 3:38 PM
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I have the Savage Heavy Barrel or Bull barrel with the Acu Trigger . Have owned it for many years and love it.
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Legend [16507]
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Oculus Spirit [97746]
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My cousin has a .17 and loves it.
Jul 27, 2020, 3:41 PM
[ in reply to What manufacturer did you go with on the .17?*** ] |
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Saw him drop a coyote at 300+ yards with it. Very straight flat shooting gun. But if you're not shooting long range, I'd go with a .22. By the time you buy the .17 and a good scope for it and long shots, you've spent a mint. A good .22 with a lesser scope works fine for a little shorter shots.
If you have large fields and want to drop coyotes at over 200 yards easily, I'd go with the .17.
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All-TigerNet [12592]
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Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 27, 2020, 3:37 PM
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.223 has worked well for me
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Orange Blooded [2936]
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Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 27, 2020, 3:47 PM
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223 does work very well on coyotes as well. That’s the problem with owning guns to many calibers to choose from. That’s why I have many different calibers, the wife will never understand.
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110%er [9035]
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Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 27, 2020, 3:50 PM
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can you find .17 ammo?
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Orange Blooded [2936]
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Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 27, 2020, 3:59 PM
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I’m sure some won’t agree but it’s easier to find 17 ammo than 22 right now, At least on my area .
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All-In [40100]
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Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 27, 2020, 4:04 PM
[ in reply to Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . . ] |
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So I think I’m ok there. But admittedly haven’t checked.
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CU Guru [1692]
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All-In [36410]
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.17's Hydrostatic Shock Characteristics Far Outweigh Smaller
Jul 27, 2020, 4:42 PM
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Lighter Slug. Once you get up over 2,100-2,220 FPS the hydrostatic damage done in the temporary wound cavity is such that the elasticity of the tissue is usually heavily damaged and the temporary cavity generally comes close in size to the permanent cavity. Now knockdown power and over-penetration have to be considered as well.
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Orange Blooded [2936]
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Re: .17's Hydrostatic Shock Characteristics Far Outweigh Smaller
Jul 27, 2020, 4:57 PM
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Well dang, all my years of shooting critters I have been looking at it all wrong. In the past I have just touched the trigger and they fell over,Learn something new every day on here .
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Orange Blooded [2936]
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Re: .17's Hydrostatic Shock Characteristics Far Outweigh Smaller
Jul 27, 2020, 5:00 PM
[ in reply to .17's Hydrostatic Shock Characteristics Far Outweigh Smaller ] |
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Well dang, all my years of shooting critters I have been looking at it all wrong. In the past I have just touched the trigger and they fell over,Learn something new every day on here .
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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All-In [36410]
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I’ve yet see a mammal under 500lbs
Jul 28, 2020, 11:34 PM
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Stand when hit with my Bushmaster 450. I guess I’m just dreaming. For fun go read m1911 history vs Moro tribesmen
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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Re: I’ve yet see a mammal under 500lbs
Jul 28, 2020, 11:40 PM
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I've read it a dozen times ..... knockdown power is still a myth. A .45 will do more damage than a .22 or .38 when hit in the same spot, but that is not knockdown power.
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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110%er [9903]
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Shot placement for the win
Jul 27, 2020, 11:12 PM
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Though there are exceptions for extreme overkill such as a .50 BMG.
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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Re: Shot placement for the win
Jul 28, 2020, 12:15 AM
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Dat true! I had a .50 Cal machine gun in my platoon in Viet Nam ..... along with our artillery piece .... a 60mm mortar. You would not want to be hit by the .50 cal anywhere!
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Oculus Spirit [77015]
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Re: .17's Hydrostatic Shock Characteristics Far Outweigh Smaller
Jul 28, 2020, 12:29 AM
[ in reply to .17's Hydrostatic Shock Characteristics Far Outweigh Smaller ] |
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Knows what he talking about.
Lighter Slug. Once you get up over 2,100-2,220 FPS the hydrostatic damage done in the temporary wound cavity is such that the elasticity of the tissue is usually heavily damaged and the temporary cavity generally comes close in size to the permanent cavity. Now knockdown power and over-penetration have to be considered as well.
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All-In [27366]
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I don't know what calibers you already own
Jul 27, 2020, 5:20 PM
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but If I were going to buy something for coyotes I'd go with a more versatile cartridge like a .243--or even better a 6.5 Creedmore--that have much better ballistics and will take down a whitetail also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VMKF3lRoqw&feature=youtu.be
FWIW, coyotes rarely give you a still shot when you actually have a rifle in your hand. They're usually trotting wherever you see them. And typically you won't be close enough to make a 22LR practical.
A 22 WMR would be better than a 22LR, and a .17 Hornet would be better than those. But like I said, I'd go with a more versatile rifle if you're going to spend that kind of money.
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All-In [27366]
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Re: I don't know what calibers you already own
Jul 27, 2020, 5:21 PM
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https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2017/2/21/top-5-coyote-cartridges/Top 5 Coyote Cartridges Coyote hunting is a great late-season activity, and if you’ve ever seen a live deer, with its hocks and haunches bloodied and half-eaten, you’ll have little issue in pursuing these creatures to the ends of the earth. Let’s take a look at Phil Massaro's personal top five choices for a coyote cartridge, in no particular order.
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: I don't know what calibers you already own
Jul 27, 2020, 6:54 PM
[ in reply to I don't know what calibers you already own ] |
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Someone I used to work with would spotlight coyotes from his back porch and aim between their eyes at 100 yds. He would drop at least a few before they would run off. I have no idea what caliber he used.
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All-TigerNet [10640]
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Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 27, 2020, 5:31 PM
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You mean you don't already own a .22? Who in the world over the age of 14 doesn't own a .22? That's child abuse if you don't own one by that age! I've got two Belgium Browning SA .22 Grade 1's (New in the box)with my 5 Yr. old and 3 Yr. old grandson's name on them. Just a matter of waiting until they are old enough to take responsibility for owning them.
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All-In [32656]
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220, 221 . . . . whatever it takes.***
Jul 27, 2020, 5:33 PM
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All-In [27366]
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One of my favorite lines, ever.***
Jul 27, 2020, 5:48 PM
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CU Medallion [65536]
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No gun advice, but for the bush hog, make REAL sure
Jul 27, 2020, 5:52 PM
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you keep everything greased and gearbox full of lube oil properly. There were a couple of older farmers around us whilst I was growing up that seemingly refused to do so. We (small farm garage, amongst other things) had to rebuild their hogs every year for about 5 years, until they got so decrepit even we couldn't save them. All for lack of care.
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Legend [17629]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 27, 2020, 6:05 PM
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I thought those were the alcohol intoxication levels of the last 2 recruits who decided to commit to USCjr.
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Orange Blooded [2205]
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Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 27, 2020, 6:46 PM
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Everyone should have a 22. They cost like $100 and it's the cheapest ammo you can find.
If you're hunting out of effective range of a 22 I would honestly suggest a 223. They can shoot a mile but it's not "overkill" and they are plentiful.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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The 17 is faster. If you are going to dial long distance
Jul 27, 2020, 6:51 PM
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I’d recommend it.
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Heisman Winner [134694]
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Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 27, 2020, 7:02 PM
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I have both. Love the .17. Shoots smooth is accurate and doesn't kick. More expensive cartridges but more killing power. My son has been shooting it for a couple of years. He loves it.Light weight rifle also.
Message was edited by: MyfavOrange®
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110%er [7535]
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Just one of them??
Jul 27, 2020, 7:10 PM
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I have a Ruger .17 Bull Barrell with 4x16x50 scope on it
Remington auto .22 with 3x9 scope Ruger Mark IV Hunter .22 Pistol
Henry Golden Boy .22 Mag Octagon Bull open sites.
Give me my Ruger .17 and .22 Pistol and I am happy as a lark. 17 is most accurate at short and long distance of any gun I have shot. It will kill coyotes. My pistol, i can hit them on the run but I like it for squirrel and rabbit too.
Sidenote: parents live in Iowa, they do coyote hunt tournaments, usually 3-4 man teams and usually do man drives. Almost all those guys shoot 17's with bull barrells. That was why i bought mine. See a lot of Savages but I like my Ruger better. The Browning's are pretty nice but not sure worth extra $$.
That's my "GO", good luck.
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All-In [40100]
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Nice input. Thanks!***
Jul 27, 2020, 10:47 PM
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110%er [9903]
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Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 27, 2020, 10:45 PM
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I have both. For coyotes I generally go with .223 but to answer your question, I’d go with the .17. Fine round out to 200 yds but after that any wind will definitely start affecting the round and it gets dicey. I have a Ruger bolt action with just a Nikon 3-9x40 on it. More expensive than a .22, yes, but not a fortune for sure. Ammo is actually easier to find than .22 right now.
Also came back to mention I was addressing the .17 HMR and not the .17 WSM. There are plenty of fine articles out there that compare both.
Message was edited by: TigerJS®
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110%er [8061]
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Re: .17 vs .22, Go . . .
Jul 28, 2020, 8:33 AM
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Friend owns a farm. Had troubles with coyotes getting their chickens and goats. Got a Lama and they have had zero issues since. Lama’s are very protective and really mean.
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110%er [9903]
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Yes
Jul 28, 2020, 10:48 AM
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Llamas, mules, donkeys all work well as shepherds within their enclosure.
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All-In [40100]
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110%er [9903]
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Re: Do you have to feed them?***
Jul 29, 2020, 2:18 PM
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A lot depends on how much land/natural forage is available. Most people I know that have them still augment their diet with hay, oats, etc.
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110%er [5225]
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Nah, use an M203, 40mm grenade launcher.***
Jul 28, 2020, 1:43 PM
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Legend [16507]
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You having to deal with a coot in-law varmint?***
Jul 30, 2020, 2:49 PM
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