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Oculus Spirit [97744]
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Not quite understanding the teachers here.
Feb 9, 2021, 11:02 AM
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https://www.wistv.com/2021/02/07/unethical-immoral-absolutely-unacceptable-mcmaster-responds-sc-teachers-push-vaccine-priority/
I have absolutely zero problem with the priority for the vaccines. Medical workers first, along with old people over 75. Then old people over 65. When that's over, then frontline workers in other areas, including teachers. The #1 factor making covid dangerous is old people. If you're under 40, you are relatively safe. MOST teachers, nowadays, are under 40. Teachers come AFTER people 65 and older. Now, when it gets to teachers, all older teachers over 40 first, regardless of school or age group taught. Then, the rest of the teachers starting with preschool and high schools then middle and finally elementary schools.
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Legend [15216]
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Age is just such the overwhelming factor with Covid...
Feb 9, 2021, 11:10 AM
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I really don't understand how anyone could argue.
I think even on the medical side you could argue that 70+ should've been prioritized over 25 yr old nurses. But, in reality, the medical people did not cause a back-up for the 70+ crowd...especially considering that about half didn't even want it.
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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From a math standpoint in makes sense. You got
Feb 9, 2021, 11:20 AM
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50 thousand public school teachers in SC roughly, in a non-controlled minimally PPE'd environment with a buncha spreader kids, avg class size say 15-16? You want to keep schools open, put the teachers near the front of the line. You eliminate an exponential vector point that could potentially touch anyone with school age kids. Makes sense to me.
Also makes sense, if I'm a teacher with a dirty-azz petri dish chirruns, I'ma want my shots. But the math angle makes more sense.
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All-In [47750]
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avg class size say 15-16?
Feb 9, 2021, 11:21 AM
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ahhh, try 23-26...
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All-TigerNet [11207]
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I was being extreeeeeeemely conservative in
Feb 9, 2021, 11:34 AM
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my estimate. Even at the class size I used, the second degree vector numbers are too bigly to fit on TI calc.
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All-In [31907]
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That's just it though, the data shows that kids...
Feb 9, 2021, 11:46 AM
[ in reply to From a math standpoint in makes sense. You got ] |
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aren't spreaders. The rate of spread/infection in schools is much lower than the general population.
Kids, especially under 15 yo, don't spread like adults do.
From an anecdotal perspective, our kids have been in-person schooling since the beginning of the school year. The number of cases in Anderson schools has been quite manageable and contact tracing indicating spread in school is almost non-existent. All the while, cases in the general population have been spiking more or less in line with the rest of the state.
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Legend [15216]
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It blows my mind that kids don't spread this stuff, but for
Feb 9, 2021, 12:00 PM
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whatever reason, their immune system shuts down the Coronavirus before they're really able to spread it around.
Norovirus and flu is totally different animal. That stuff will wreck throughout schools.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Right. In terms of damage, this is somewhat the opposite of
Feb 9, 2021, 12:06 PM
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the flu, but our response and strategy has been what one would apply to a really deadly flu. We're running a blitz against the slant over and over, even knowing the slant is coming.
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Oculus Spirit [97744]
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Covid (and it's cousins SARS/MERS) are very unique
Feb 9, 2021, 1:46 PM
[ in reply to It blows my mind that kids don't spread this stuff, but for ] |
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Like totally in the virus world, in how the infect humans. You have two types of cells that, together, form your immune response to a virus. Think of one type of immune cell as the ammo, and the other as the soldiers, who fire the ammo and kill the virus. It takes soldiers AND ammo to kill it. A bunch of soldiers with no guns or ammo is useless. A bunch of guns and ammo with no soldiers to use them, is useless.
When you normally get a virus, your body calls up the soldiers and the ammo producers and working together they attack the virus and kill it. With covid, the covid virus actually directs your body to overproduce the ammo needed to fight the virus, while at the same time, holds back the messengers telling your body to send in the soldiers to fire the ammo and kill the virus. The overproduction of ammo causes the inflammation that kills with covid. Without soldiers to direct the cytokines, they collect and just burn, not killing the virus. You only beat it when the soldiers finally arrive and hopefully use the ammo to kill the virus and leave you cured. And this is why the virus is so odd in the presentation of symptoms.
It's why you can get exposed, have it for a week or two and not even know, while your body is producing ammo to fight it at a record pace, with no soldiers to fire the ammo, you feel fine. Eventually soldiers SLOWLY drift into the battlefield only to see it's worse than they even knew. So they start fighting as best they can (then you feel mildly sick). As more and more soldiers arrive, and there's more ammo than they would ever need to use, they just nuke the whole place, you get very sick (ICU) and you die. That's the simple version. Here's the full version, and yes, it it VERY unique to covid/SARS/MERS. And covid does it better than the other two. Basically you WANT covid to hit you like a ton of bricks, all at once, like the flu and other viruses. But it doesn't do that. It slowly comes on and by the time you know enough to fight it, it's too late.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-0346-xDysregulation of type I interferon responses in COVID-19 Infection with SARS-CoV-2 can lead to excessive production of pro-inflammatory cytokines, but the production of type I interferons, which are key antiviral mediators, is reportedly blunted. Here, we discuss how imbalanced interferon responses may contribute to the pathology of COVID-19. In this Comment, Michaela Gack and colleagues discuss how the dysregulation of type I interferon responses may contribute to COVID-19 pathology.
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CU Guru [1878]
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The data doesn't show that
Feb 10, 2021, 12:36 PM
[ in reply to That's just it though, the data shows that kids... ] |
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That data was flawed because it counted virtual students as "in school". Naturally, virtual students have a lot less Covid rates than in person. Literally the opposite of what they stated.
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All-In [47750]
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Teachers should be given priority behind HC workers.
Feb 9, 2021, 11:20 AM
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Many kids may carry the rona and no one knows it. Schools do a great job of disinfecting/cleaning/sanitizing but the teachers have know clue who is carrying the virus. Especially elementary school kids.
Ms. Wilbur teaches kindergarten in Easley. I sweat it out every day...
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All-In [31907]
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In terms of jobs working with others, Kindergarten...
Feb 9, 2021, 11:55 AM
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teacher is likely the most safe from a covid-perspective.
Can't speak from a mental perspective
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All-TigerNet [13155]
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Re: Not quite understanding the teachers here.
Feb 9, 2021, 11:23 AM
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They are worthless.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Not quite understanding the teachers here.
Feb 9, 2021, 12:27 PM
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I would like to see you try teaching for a month - if you could last that long.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Corona truth has been a moving target since it became
Feb 9, 2021, 12:02 PM
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xenophobic to shut off travel from China. When pointing out that children going to school is statistically safe, for both students and teachers, the response was "but they can bring it back to the older parents/grandparents." If a person is going to say that, reason has ceased anyway, so okay, give them that one. Then the vaccine comes out, and suddenly it's not about the old people but me, me, me.
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Legend [15216]
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Then you've got the "just because you got the vaccine...
Feb 9, 2021, 12:07 PM
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you can still spread the virus itself to others!"
Well if that's true, then the whole "we should vaccinate the spreaders" theory makes no sense which points back to vaccinate the older population first and foremost.
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Corona is a miraculous virus, able to fit any ideological
Feb 9, 2021, 12:09 PM
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perspective one wants.
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Oculus Spirit [97744]
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The virus makes a lot more sense than people
Feb 9, 2021, 1:09 PM
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It's pretty easy to understand, and even predict. People, well, people are different.
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Heisman Winner [111697]
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Re: Not quite understanding the teachers here.
Feb 9, 2021, 12:12 PM
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Teachers vote Democrat, period.
Desantis is refusing to follow this science and put his voting demographic in line ahead of the sick, poor, and front line workers.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Not quite understanding the teachers here.
Feb 9, 2021, 12:15 PM
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Orange Blooded [4701]
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All-In [34598]
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but SCIENCE!!***
Feb 9, 2021, 1:32 PM
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Hall of Famer [24477]
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Orange Blooded [4701]
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I think you nailed it. I have a friend who is super liberal,
Feb 9, 2021, 2:23 PM
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also a teacher. She always touts herself as servant to the poor and needy... but when she lucked into the chance to get vaccinated she took it rather than giving her spot to someone who needed it more even jumped in front of her 70+ year old parents (she's a healthy 40 yr old).
I'm just a selfish Republican who has spent hours helping to get my parents, my elderly neighbors, my parents friends, my co-workers, and even my former high school teachers appointment times.
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Orange Blooded [4365]
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Re: Not quite understanding the teachers here.
Feb 9, 2021, 12:21 PM
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Tig,
3 points
1. The original plan was for 65 - 69 year olds (1c) to be behind teachers (1b) in the priority system. Now they (65 - 69) are being moved up to 1a. What changed ?
2. Meanwhile more & more teachers are being forced back into crowded classrooms as school districts move back to all in-person school schedules. They have decided to ignore the health guidelines that THEY put in place. So now older teachers are being put at risk, and even the younger ones can take little comfort that the odds are they won't die.
3. Why not hold off on the in-person classes UNTIL teachers can be vaccinated ?
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Hall of Famer [24812]
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How about not being dead last in vacs/capita in the US...
Feb 9, 2021, 1:22 PM
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Maybe that changed in the last few weeks, but either way, it certainly wasn't a very good start...
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All-In [31907]
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I'll take a stab...
Feb 9, 2021, 1:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Not quite understanding the teachers here. ] |
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1) I'm not sure about the original plan versus current plan. This is the first I've heard of the plan actually having been changed, but I'll take your word for it. Perhaps the original plan was adjusted based on the data and studies confirming that spread in school is not high and it makes more sense to vaccinate 65+ over teachers. IF that's the case, isn't that what we want? The plan changing based on the science/data?
2) Again...the data shows that kids, by in large, are heavy spreaders. If teachers are being "forced" back into the classroom, if we use the data logically, teachers should be behind manufacturing workers or least critical manufacturing workers. My company is a deemed a critical manufacturer by the gubmint. We have never shut down and I have many people working within 6 feet of each other. Why would a teacher working in a room of "low-spreaders" be at a higher risk that a manufacturing worker working along side adults?
3) Why not follow the science/data and open up all schools now?
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Oculus Spirit [97744]
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My 6yo has been in school full time since September.
Feb 9, 2021, 2:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Not quite understanding the teachers here. ] |
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He goes to a school with 1,000 kids K-5. They are back on a almost normal schedule. Fridays are still virtual as a "cleaning day". But 4 days a week they're back, in person, with full classes, and basically running as normal (with precautions/masks/etc.). They've had 5 cases, total among students and between 5-10 cases total with staff. That's very safe. It is safer than flipping burgers in a restaurant, or serving beer in a bar. Don't see bartenders complaining.
Anyway, middle school son has been back in class full time as well since September. They've had 8 cases among students and 10-15 among staff. Again, that ain't bad.
High schools have remained hybrid, two days in person a week. They've had 20+ staff cases and 30+ student cases. That's not as good, but still, relatively safe.
Now SIL teaches 10 5yo's in Kindergarten at a private preschool. No mask mandate for the kids. Every adult in the building must wear a mask. They've had dozens of kids get sick, and almost every staff member, within a 3 week period (a bonifide outbreak).
So you tell me....but schools are safe. High schools maybe notsomuch. Middle and elementary schools are safe and safer than most work places.
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