Replies: 63
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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Trump, Iran and the credibility problem
Jun 14, 2019, 9:27 PM
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Would anyone really believe this president if he said that we had a legit justification to go to war with Iran?
His credibility seems to be a problem. In fact, so much so, that if we did go to war, I believe most people would assume it would be solely to preserve or enhance his control of the Oval Office.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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I do not believe Trump wants to go to war.
Jun 15, 2019, 1:16 PM
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He's all about the economy and he knows as well as anyone that building military and making it stronger is beneficial to the economy in general but waging war by using that military is counter to a good economy.
Those who never had a nice thing to say about Trump, never liked a decision he made and find him an abomination on our country refuse to see the obvious. He promised a good economy and no war. I believe he made it much more simple than that.
He promised peace and prosperity. He's delivered on the prosperity and given us the lowest unemployment numbers in 5 decades, that's 50 years, half a century, lower than most Americans have seen in their lives. I'm not worried about a war.
They only way you're going to get this guy out of the Oval Office is to impeach him. You need to work on that and stop being a gnat swarming around his orange face.
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All-In [38514]
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What has he done on unemployment?
Jun 15, 2019, 3:59 PM
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It's just following trends from before he took office.
<###### src='https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/#####/?s=usurtot&v=201906071245a1&d1=20090101&d2=20191231&h=300&w=600' height='300' width='600' frameborder='0' scrolling='no'>######> source: tradingeconomics.com
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Thanks Obama?
Jun 15, 2019, 4:23 PM
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lol
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Commissioner [941]
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Re: Thanks Obama?
Jun 15, 2019, 4:44 PM
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Obama said it was Bush's economy … so I guess a shout out should go to W! Huh? LOL!
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All-In [38514]
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I don't believe the President has much affect on the economy
Jun 15, 2019, 9:13 PM
[ in reply to Thanks Obama? ] |
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But numbers is numbers.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Nothing will change some minds.
Jun 15, 2019, 5:55 PM
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Anyone who has never said one nice thing about Trump has already resolved to believe what suit them and disregard the truth.
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All-In [38514]
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Is the graph incorrect?***
Jun 15, 2019, 9:12 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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I learned to love graphs during my 3 years of economic...
Jun 16, 2019, 10:05 AM
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studies at Clemson. A graph isn't always the easiest way to solve a problem but it produces the most understandable solution. So yes, I appreciate a graph but one must be aware that highlighting one graph which has limits doesn't provide full comprehension of a subject.
Before you view this video please allow time to digest the information. I'm not accusing you of lacking understanding but the video is much more comprehensive and perhaps even near to exhausting and will take about 10 minutes of your time to view it. I think you will appreciate it if you see it through. I'm open to further discussion too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K_LlGgagZY
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Re: I learned to love graphs during my 3 years of economic...
Jun 17, 2019, 8:37 AM
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this is awesome. thanks for sharing.
too bad about 90% of the nation will never see this and just keep pushing Trump hate.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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We're dealing with people who are so obstinate they...
Jun 17, 2019, 8:56 AM
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refuse to acknowledge that the great influx of cheap labor coming across the border daily is depressing the wage of low and unskilled American citizens. All but a handful of dem candidate are pushing for an open southern border with a few of them claiming they can overcome the economics of supply and demand regarding unskilled labor by raising the minimum wage to $15/hr.
These candidates and some of our posters are supposed to be educated yet it seems the simplest fundamental economic principle escapes their comprehension. It's either that or the deliberately choose to ignore universal law. Either way they cause much harm to the poor of all races.
...and I'm the racist, right?
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All-In [38514]
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Not sure who is obstinate here.
Jun 17, 2019, 9:15 AM
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Trump says he inherited a mess, he did not. Numbers were good and trending towards better before Trump was elected. Those numbers have continued.
I'm in no way advocating that the Dem candidates are or would be better. I think they're all horrible, although I find Buttigieg at least interesting.
While claiming that Trump hate blinds to giving credit, Obama hate appears to be the same for y'all. And as I said before, I don't think the President has much affect on the economy.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Re: Not sure who is obstinate here.
Jun 17, 2019, 1:15 PM
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One number, unemployment rate. The video plainly show the economic downturn we were about to endure. Many graphs and much data are presented. What you posted is a snapshot of one trend. An unemployment number is like a pulse or EKG. It only tells you about the present.
Those indicators are predictive of our future. Perhaps that's what Trump meant when he said he inherited a mess. The tone of small and large business outlook, the high unemployment numbers for black, mexican and other minorities may also be within his scope of view.
The southern border is another example and imo, the country was headed in the wrong direction and had been for decades.
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All-In [38514]
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The video reflects numbers cherry picked by a Trump
Jun 17, 2019, 3:53 PM
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appointee. I have no doubt that things are better, and confidence numbers are definitely higher. But to hear Trump and Trump supporters talk, so much of the rhetoric is BS. Our economy continues to improve, that is good. But it's not like Trump performed anything magical here, the tax cuts did give a short term boost but we'll see what the long term effects are when we've got debt ceiling problems.
Don't assume I've got a partisan horse in this race, because I don't. I vote Republican more often than Democrat and voted for neither Obama or Trump.
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All-In [42197]
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Re: The video reflects numbers cherry picked by a Trump
Jun 18, 2019, 10:33 AM
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They'll credit their savior with anything he claims to take credit for. When the economy swings the other way (there are some signs it's going to soon), they won't dare blame him.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Does GDP indicate the economic condition?
Jun 19, 2019, 3:18 PM
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What measure do you use. Tdrake dismisses the unemployment number after posting a graph showing unemployment numbers to make a point. Shall I expect that measure of consistence out of you?
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All-In [38514]
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GDP has steadied under Trump
Jun 19, 2019, 3:31 PM
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And was dropping in 2015, but rising again before the election. I'm not dismissing the numbers, I'm posting numbers. I just don't see the tremendous numbers that Trump claims credit for.
<###### src='https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/#####/?s=gdp+cqoq&v=201905301259a1&d1=20090101&d2=20191231&h=300&w=600' height='300' width='600' frameborder='0' scrolling='no'>######> source: tradingeconomics.com
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Re: GDP has steadied under Trump
Jun 20, 2019, 10:55 AM
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All-In [38514]
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There you go! That's meaningful data.
Jun 20, 2019, 11:23 AM
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Of course that evened out and was on the way up before Trump's inauguration. Of course it was the financial crisis that sent the number down. I'd accept that Republican control of Congress changed the trend, just as I believe that Republican control of Congress should be given credit for the 90's economy and not Clinton (although the tech boom was responsible and largely unrelated).
Just not sure that I see anything Trump specific to the increase as it was trending up at his inauguration. And in the same way I don't see giving Trump credit, I don't give Obama credit either. He inherited a mess and the numbers only could have gone up. Trump has definitely not negatively affected the economy. More often than not Trump inherited an economy that was already trending up.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Pub congress and the POTUS is correct.
Jun 20, 2019, 11:52 AM
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Congress can confound or agree with a POTUS, either way the POTUS must sign legislation for it to become law. Without that signature congress is typically helpless to have an effect on the economy.
If pubs control the congress with a conservative or moderate POTUS in office then congress plays a big role in the economy. When a dem is in office they can stop the legislation but they can't stop the POTUS. The POTUS controls the economy through regulations. Some harm, fewer don't and some regulations stifle the economy. Obama did a horrible job on regulations.
Trump has done a wonderful job with his first two years partly because of legislation he signed and partly because of the deregulation he enacted. He is the anti Obama incarnate regarding economic policy.
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All-In [42197]
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Re: Does GDP indicate the economic condition?
Jun 19, 2019, 5:31 PM
[ in reply to Does GDP indicate the economic condition? ] |
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Of course. Nobody is denying the economy is good. What y'all are having a hard time understanding is that it was already on that trend before Trump. Trump helped some by not screwing it up, but we'll see with the tariffs.
In short, Trump (nor any president) gave us this good economy. Sorry. That's not how it works.
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All-In [38514]
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110%er [9174]
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So will I, but what is the vertical graph?
Jun 15, 2019, 10:33 PM
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Banana Bunches Farts without stench Global Cooling Days Democrat Approval Rating of Trump Number of 1000 days before California spontaneously combusts, breaks off and becomes an island
???
-PhD
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All-In [42197]
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More misinformation from the Trump camp, as usual.
Jun 18, 2019, 10:31 AM
[ in reply to Nothing will change some minds. ] |
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A. "Unemployment rate" isn't what y'all think it is.
B. Not one of you Trump folks yet have given a detailed explanation as to how he's magically lowered unemployment vs. the actual trend before he took office which, again, is painfully obvious when you look at the numbers.
I watched your video you posted. What, of course, you don't mention is that Kevin Hassett twisted facts and made up some information, which isn't really shocking given this administration's history of making up stuff (and knowing a select group of the population will blindly believe it.)
So I've linked an article that fact-checks Hassett and a video that's a little more fun to explain unemployment rate.
But again, simply put, the economy was already trending this way before Trump won and y'all can't name any specific things he's done to create your claim of magical unemployment rate that he is somehow solely responsible for. In short, y'all are a bit gullible over this.
https://apnews.com/bee602b2e0ad42a0927460c2a1ab7dbf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVaLmnUZOjQ
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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You're giving Carter credit for Reagan's economy...
Jun 18, 2019, 11:13 AM
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Bush one credit for Clinton's, Clinton credit for Bush two's, Bush two credit for Obama's and Obama credit for Trump's? Or something else? Where's the cut off?
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All-In [42197]
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Re: You're giving Carter credit for Reagan's economy...
Jun 18, 2019, 10:03 PM
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I didn't say any of that, which further proves you're dodging/can't give reasons how Trump has helped with this.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Ok, here we go.
Jun 19, 2019, 7:02 AM
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The video contradicts part of the AP article by dismissing the unemployment number as a valid indicator to use as a gauge of the American economy. Shall we use the government's unemployment numbers over the past decade as a reflection of our economy or not?
We must decide before we proceed with this discussion. We must establish what we agree is a standard which we both accept. That's only reasonable and you're giving me sources which are contradicting one another.
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All-In [42197]
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That's attempting to dismiss the topic...
Jun 19, 2019, 10:01 AM
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Now that the data has been brought into question.
You brought up unemployment to derail a discussion about Iran and somehow claimed that Trump has magically given us this unemployment data without providing any evidence when challenged. Tdrake and I proved that unemployment was already on the decline and that the data used to calculate it to begin with is a little weird. Your video was debunked as usual Trump admin misinformation.
So what's next? Either prove Trump has single-handedly done something to give us this unemployment figure, or move on.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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No, all I'm asking you to do is make up your mind...
Jun 19, 2019, 2:04 PM
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which of those contradictory links you posted you're willing to support. Either unemployment is a significant factor in determining economic conditions or it's not. Just some ground rules, Cat. All I'm asking for is a square deal here. You can't have it both ways.
Do you accept the unemployment rate as an economic indicator or not?
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All-In [42197]
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Either/Or Fallacy.
Jun 19, 2019, 5:32 PM
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Dismissed. I don't entertain fallacies.
I've already established that "unemployment" isn't what you think it is and Trump's admin is lying by taking credit for it. It was already on the trend before Trump.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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You have established a few things.
Jun 20, 2019, 11:58 AM
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When it comes to economics you turn to politicians for opinion instead of economist. You take rhetoric rather than professional evaluation. You take comedy rather than fact.
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Oculus Spirit [97744]
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The unemployment number is a joke, has been for a long
Jun 20, 2019, 11:30 AM
[ in reply to What has he done on unemployment? ] |
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time, and gets to just be a bigger joke the lower it goes. Here's another chart to mirror yours.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: I do not believe Trump wants to go to war.
Jun 19, 2019, 2:18 PM
[ in reply to I do not believe Trump wants to go to war. ] |
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He's all about the economy and he knows as well as anyone that building military and making it stronger is beneficial to the economy in general ....
Yes, it's called socialism. Taking taxpayer money and funneling it to big business to benefit Execs. and stock holders. Not exactly feeding welfare mothers, but socialism none the less.
Eisenhower said it best:
https://youtu.be/PCEOgamC1p0
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CU Medallion [73569]
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You are a wackadoodle
Jun 15, 2019, 5:16 PM
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Trump.has always been antiwar. Dogged bush over and over for Iraq.
And now Iran is blowing ships up and this is his fault? You libs are f up
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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So you would believe what he says then?
Jun 16, 2019, 9:55 PM
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This is actually a legit question that comes up every time there is this drum beat to flex the military. Whether or not you believe he is anti-war is irrelevant, he has yet to be faced with the proposition while in office. B
A lot of folks look at recent tanker explosion and see the Gulf of Tonkin Part II, aka Gulf of Trumpkin. With Bolton at his side,many wonky types are assuming he would use such a threat as pretext to keep both his Saudi and Israeli patrons happy. It seems really obvious that he is the type of narcissist that would jump into a conflict if it allowed him to retain power indefinitely. Bombs away.
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110%er [9174]
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Ignorance, via left propaganda, at its best.
Jun 17, 2019, 10:22 PM
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Using the term Wonky, tells me all I need about you. What else, other than Anti-War at all cost, is in that Oversized Coconut of yours?
-Doc Tesla
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Orange Blooded [2693]
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So you would believe what he says then?
Jun 16, 2019, 9:55 PM
[ in reply to You are a wackadoodle ] |
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This is actually a legit question that comes up every time there is this drum beat to flex the military. Whether or not you believe he is anti-war is irrelevant, he has yet to be faced with the proposition while in office. B
A lot of folks look at recent tanker explosion and see the Gulf of Tonkin Part II, aka Gulf of Trumpkin. With Bolton at his side,many wonky types are assuming he would use such a threat as pretext to keep both his Saudi and Israeli patrons happy. It seems really obvious that he is the type of narcissist that would jump into a conflict if it allowed him to retain power indefinitely. Bombs away.
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CU Medallion [60043]
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Re: So you would believe what he says then?
Jun 17, 2019, 8:32 AM
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"trumpkin" thats so cute and makes me disregard anything else you write
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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You're not keeping up.
Jun 19, 2019, 7:29 AM
[ in reply to So you would believe what he says then? ] |
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Trump swiftly ended the ISIS takeover of massive geographical regions in the middle east then he withdrew almost all of the troops there. He inherited that situation he didn't start it. He ended it.
I do not believe everything anyone says. That's gullible to foolish. However, Trump has done a fantastic job of keeping his promises on things which matter most to his supporters.
He promised to reduce taxes and he reduced taxes. Don't come at me with that lopsided, inaccurate bullchit about 'The rich getting more than the middle class.' A tax is the gov taking money from people so only the extremely ignorant or the liars can say that anyone got anything other than a reduction in the money the US Gov took from them.
He promised to cut regulations and he cut regulations. For the first time in many decades we are exporting more petroleum products than we import.
He promised to end the penalty on those who refuse to signup for Obamacare and he ended the penalty on those who refused to sign up for Obamacare.
He promised to nominate conservative judges who respect the constitution and he nominated conservative judges who respect the constitution.
'As of June 13, 2019, the United States Senate has confirmed 119 Article III judges nominated by President Trump, including 2 Associate Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States, 41 judges for the United States Courts of Appeals, 76 judges for the United States District Courts...
There are currently 58 nominations to Article III courts awaiting Senate action, including 2 for the Courts of Appeals, 54 for the District Courts, and 2 for the Court of International Trade. There are currently 5 vacancies on the U.S. Courts of Appeals, 113 vacancies on the U.S. District Courts, 4 vacancies on the U.S. Court of International Trade, and 13 announced federal judicial vacancies that will occur before the end of Trump's first term (1 for the Courts of Appeals and 12 for District Courts)...'- WIKI
He lies about trivial stuff and exaggerates to the point of lying but he wasn't lying about not being a warmonger, cutting taxes, reducing regulations or nominating conservative judges and those were a few of the reasons he was elected in 2016 and he can run on having kept those promises now.
Yeah, yeah I know, he hasn't built the wall he promised. How do you think those people who voted for him will reward the democrats in the house who confounded his efforts to build that wall?
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All-In [48078]
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Re: You're not keeping up.
Jun 19, 2019, 11:06 AM
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We're waiting for Mexico's payment for our wall.
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: You are a wackadoodle
Jun 17, 2019, 8:48 PM
[ in reply to You are a wackadoodle ] |
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I doubt Iran was responsible. Probably a false flag attack
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Trump, Iran and the credibility problem
Jun 16, 2019, 8:53 AM
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I would believe he thought the war was justified. I dont think he has a credibility prob with wars. He sees them as a blunder and a waste of money generally.
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Orange Blooded [4976]
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Re: Trump, Iran and the credibility problem
Jun 17, 2019, 8:43 PM
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Most people would be stupid to think that way. However in this case I believe it's the War Hawks putting pressure on Trump. It looks like he's going along with them.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Don't fret.
Jun 17, 2019, 10:40 PM
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We are going to reflag tankers traveling through the straight and defend them as if they were our own. America can live without oil from the middle east but the rest of the world will fall into a deep recession if that trade route is interrupted.
I believe Trump and Bolton are playing good cop bad cop. I also believe there are other situations in which Trump has played this game with foreign countries. They swear they have photos of Iran planting mines against the side of a tanker.
However, if you are right it doesn't matter to Trump. If he's dead set on going to war with Iran I believe he will wait until he can prove to most of the American people that we were attacked. Maybe he fabricated an incident or simply provokes one.
Either way I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end.
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110%er [9174]
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Damnstraight
Jun 18, 2019, 6:42 AM
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There's alotta oil in this country. Plus, American Company Oil stock is depressed. So, bring this conflict on....
-Doc
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Heisman Winner [111697]
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spoken like a true christian.
Jun 18, 2019, 7:24 AM
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Legend [19933]
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^^^here comes the “go to” attacks^^^
Jun 18, 2019, 7:50 AM
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Discredits an entire group of people with a “holier than thou” remark
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Damnstraight
Jun 18, 2019, 8:04 AM
[ in reply to Damnstraight ] |
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Its terrible for the US economy aside from the oil industry. Its terrible for the world economy as a whole. There's a reason we care.
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110%er [9174]
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Bitchplease..
Jun 18, 2019, 7:10 PM
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-Doc
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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I don't want a conflict with Iran but...
Jun 18, 2019, 11:22 AM
[ in reply to Damnstraight ] |
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I'd take that over them having nukes because they would nuke Israel and begin something we can't stop or avoid getting in the middle of.
I also rather fight with Iran than see half the world's population suffer from energy starvation. Obviously the oil rich countries outside the US and on the north end of the straight are all about Iran shutting down the waterways.
Russia stands to make a bundle on that because their main cash crop is oil and oil based products like natural gas. It makes you wonder if these people who are contesting Trump's aren't on Russia's payroll.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Don't fret.
Jun 18, 2019, 8:01 AM
[ in reply to Don't fret. ] |
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The price of oil going up isnt good for basic Americans. It messes us up too. If it didn't, we wouldnt care.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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I completely agree.
Jun 18, 2019, 11:28 AM
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If the straight is blocked the cost of oil will increase here as well as the rest of the world. I don't like that. I also know that if we have conflict with Iran our taxpayers will suffer paying for the conflict in gold.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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You are clearly a fish out of water here.***
Jun 20, 2019, 2:24 PM
[ in reply to Don't fret. ] |
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Maybe, but...
Jun 20, 2019, 5:46 PM
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I believe if we go to war with Iran it won't be possible to blame it on Trump. I honestly believe the man doesn't want a war. His greatest asset is the economy and his gold is tied up in the economy. I don't know if it's his real estate holdings which make him hate war but something is going on with him.
When dealing with Russia, China, NOKO and now Iran he tried to keep the door open even though he's pummeled by the media for disagreeing with those around him. Trump is a no holds barred type guy. If we go to war it will be devastating because he will turn the military loose.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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A prerequisite for being a man is accepting personal responsibility.
Jun 20, 2019, 9:26 PM
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Trump is a b*tch. He is no man. The buck stops with Trump. If he fails to keep us out of war, he deserves the blame. But I don't really care about the individual who gets the blame. This is a systemic disease.
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CU Guru [1878]
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LOL did anyone think he wasn't going to war with SOMEONE
Jun 18, 2019, 2:06 PM
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before the end of his presidency? If you base your entire platform on hatred of brown people, you're probably going to war with some brown people for no reason.
Trump is not going to leave office without a lot of brown people being killed in foreign lands by Americans. If American soldier lives need to be risked to kill brown people, that's a risk he is willing to take.
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All-In [42197]
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The scary part...
Jun 19, 2019, 5:34 PM
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Is that Trump, likely with the encouragement of people like John Bolton who knows this fact, will start the conflict shortly before the election to boost his ratings. That's because every single president who has launched a military action has seen an immediate ratings boost.
Even Jimmy Carter attempted it shortly before the 1980 election with a failed hostage rescue attempt. Sure enough, he got a ratings boost... just not enough to make a difference.
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All-In [48078]
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All-In [31907]
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All-TigerNet [14477]
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Re: Trump, Iran and the credibility problem
Jun 20, 2019, 7:48 AM
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Trump, Iran and the credibility problem [1] Posted: Jun 14, 2019 9:27 PM Reply
Would anyone really believe this president if he said that we had a legit justification to go to war with Iran?
His credibility seems to be a problem. In fact, so much so, that if we did go to war, I believe most people would assume it would be solely to preserve or enhance his control of the Oval Office.
so many idiots, so little time. trump will do anything possible to avoid war. he!! he is withdrawing troops from over there without the consent of his own party. maybe you snowflakes should go watch burgess owens testimony yesterday to congress.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Trump, Iran and the credibility problem
Jun 20, 2019, 11:11 AM
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I agree with most of that. That said, aren't we adding troops again?
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110%er [7555]
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Re: Trump, Iran and the credibility problem
Jun 20, 2019, 12:34 PM
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You are an idiot...Go Tigers!!!!
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Trump doesn't want war. He thinks he can scare Iran.
Jun 20, 2019, 2:21 PM
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But he badly misplayed his hand. Now Iran has him over a barrel. War would be a disaster for Trump, and Iran knows this. This is why they are matching our escalation and raising us one.
Bolton and Pompeo are happy about this and want a war, Trump doesn't for political reasons. But Trump put himself down this stupid path by having the US break the nuclear deal and bringing on the sleazy Pompeo and the psychotic Bolton. (Not being hyperbolic)
Arm yourselves with context.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/06/iran-shoots-down-strategic-us-drone-is-ready-for-war-puts-maximum-pressure-on-trump-.html
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