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Replies: 59
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Editor [∞]
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TNET: Swinney explains why Clemson's recruiting policy not only works, but thrives
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Apr 5, 2024, 7:00 AM
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110%er [6914]
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Agree and love the way Dabo does things. However, if
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Apr 5, 2024, 7:12 AM
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you are having to use $$ to retain players, isn’t it still somewhat “about the $$” with those guys, eg, if you don’t pay me , I’m gonna leave?
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110%er [5456]
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I think he mentioned that the kids still care about money.
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Apr 5, 2024, 8:00 AM
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“but then there's kids over here that that's important, but that’s not what they're really making their decision on. And that's the kids that come to Clemson.”
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CU Guru [1257]
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Re: Agree and love the way Dabo does things. However, if
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Apr 5, 2024, 10:20 AM
[ in reply to Agree and love the way Dabo does things. However, if ] |
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There is a difference between merit pay for what a player HAS ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED, and paying a high schooler that hasn't contributed anything to our program. Thanks for playing though
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110%er [6914]
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Good point. Therein lies the difference.***
Apr 5, 2024, 11:40 AM
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Orange Blooded [3111]
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our NIL is for RETENTION, not RECRUITING.
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Apr 5, 2024, 7:46 AM
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I love that philosophy. You can tell recruits that you will definitely get paid here, once you’ve contributed.
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Scout Team [178]
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Re: our NIL is for RETENTION, not RECRUITING.
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Apr 5, 2024, 8:09 AM
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It’s still a team sport! On rare occasions, one player from the portal can make the difference but chances are small. I like the way Dabo does things.
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CU Medallion [55434]
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Re: our NIL is for RETENTION, not RECRUITING.
Apr 5, 2024, 9:21 AM
[ in reply to our NIL is for RETENTION, not RECRUITING. ] |
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Yep, and that lets them know that if you want to get paid, make yourself known at this level and you will get offers from the people that has noticed you and what you've done on the field. And the kids that need that NIL money the most, maybe they will work the hardest to get it bc kids aren't getting NIL pay just bc they signed with a certain school, they are getting it if they can shine out on the field, they're not going to give kids money that never make it to the 1st or 2nd level of the game roster...
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Rock Defender [71]
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Re: our NIL is for RETENTION, not RECRUITING.
Apr 5, 2024, 10:32 AM
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I was attending a Greenville Clemson Club meeting and ADNeff said that every scholarship player on all varsity sports gets $3000 per semester.That amounts to 16 million dollars per year funded by IPTAY
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All-American [566]
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A 6 grand a year stipend for ALL varsity sports? ALL? Shocking...
Apr 5, 2024, 7:07 PM
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Particularly when you consider only 2 sports generate any revenue(Football & to a lesser degree MBB), titleIV ≠ ROI
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All-TigerNet [12883]
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Re: TNET: Swinney explains why Clemson's recruiting policy not only works, but thrives
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Apr 5, 2024, 8:10 AM
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So blessed to have this man recruiting, coaching and mentoring our student athletes.
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All-In [44060]
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This was a great strategy a decade ago.
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Apr 5, 2024, 8:16 AM
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Now, it needs tweaking and I’m not convinced Dabo is willing to do that or knows how to.
I don’t think we need to abandon our morals and principles, but I would like to see us consider offering some guys earlier and also being less judgmental of elite recruits who want to maximize their NIL. Wanting to capitalize on that doesn’t necessarily make them “all about the money” or lacking in the characteristics we are looking for at Clemson.
Likewise, making generalizations about everyone in the portal is also unfair. They aren’t all attitude problems, but it seems that Dabo views them that way.
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Orange Blooded [2699]
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Re: This was a great strategy a decade ago.
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Apr 5, 2024, 8:42 AM
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Read the article instead of offering you stock response, although admittedly with slightly less animosity than usual, and you’ll see that every point you raised was addressed.
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All-In [44060]
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I read the article. Yes, Dabo addressed those issues.
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Apr 5, 2024, 8:57 AM
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He did so by essentially saying, “this is how we do things and it works for us.”
So he commented on them, but didn’t show any willingness whatsoever to adapt.
The truth is that his strategy doesn’t work as well as it used to. If it did, we wouldn’t have seen such a significant decline in our program.
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Orange Blooded [2514]
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Re: I read the article. Yes, Dabo addressed those issues.
Apr 5, 2024, 9:03 AM
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I like his approach. I think the strategy will work amazingly. We have the 3rd ranked class in 2025. We just took a step back with coaching changes when Vanables let. We are back on track.
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Legend [18798]
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I think both of you could be correct.
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Apr 5, 2024, 9:08 AM
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There is no denying that we have had a drop in recruiting and talent since 2018.
Coaching hires like Streeter and Austin have played out. We have had to take a lot of fallback recruits (way more than we had during the run).
Better coaching hires also seem to be finding their way into better late recruiting, though.
I think next year will tell us a lot.
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Heisman Winner [140617]
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And don't forget how much of an impact COVID had...
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Apr 5, 2024, 9:15 AM
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on our recruiting cycles. This affected us more than it affected some others because of our recruiting model.
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110%er [5498]
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Re: And don't forget how much of an impact COVID had...
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Apr 5, 2024, 10:43 AM
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Absolutely!
Covid disproportionately us because getting kids on campus is such a large part of our recruiting process.
It set us back 2 years IMO.
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Legend [18798]
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Good points.***
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Apr 5, 2024, 11:09 AM
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All-In [44060]
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Hall of Famer [22766]
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Re: Getting recruits on campus is important at every school.***
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Apr 6, 2024, 8:03 AM
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I guess that makes sense if you don’t believe there is anything special about Clemson or its football program’s culture. Troll.
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Head Coach [789]
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Re: I read the article. Yes, Dabo addressed those issues.
Apr 6, 2024, 8:03 AM
[ in reply to Re: I read the article. Yes, Dabo addressed those issues. ] |
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I like his approach. I think the strategy will work amazingly. We have the 3rd ranked class in 2025. We just took a step back with coaching changes when Vanables let. We are back on track.
I think LesterWagner1990 sums it up perfectly.
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Orange Blooded [4199]
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All-In [44060]
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Youre joking, right?
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Apr 6, 2024, 7:54 AM
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The last three years, we aren’t nearly the program we were in 2015-2020.
We’ve gone from being one of the top few teams in college football to being outside the top 10. Last year, we barely finished in the top 20.
I also don’t feel that we have recruited as well. We have still gotten some good players, but we seem to be missing out more on the truly elite players we used to get (Deshaun, Trevor, Sammy, Wilkins, etc.).
In contrast, basketball has improved in recent years in wins, recruiting, etc. Apples and oranges.
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: Youre joking, right?
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Apr 6, 2024, 7:56 AM
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Only took 14 years. And, we'll have to wait to see if this year was not just a flash in the pan. Last time Brownell saw the sweet 16, Clemson had to suffer through several seasons of 16 and 17 wins and 10th place ACC standing.
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: Youre joking, right?
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Apr 6, 2024, 7:57 AM
[ in reply to Youre joking, right? ] |
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It's hilarious how you can come here at criticize Dabo's coaching and recruiting style, but God help anyone who dares to question the mighty Brownell!
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Orange Blooded [2699]
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Re: I read the article. Yes, Dabo addressed those issues.
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Apr 5, 2024, 10:00 AM
[ in reply to I read the article. Yes, Dabo addressed those issues. ] |
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Then take the man at his word and don't present your biased opinions as fact.
JK - "Offer guys earlier"
Dabo - "And that's why we don't offer freshmen and sophomores. It's a developmental game. ... We just want to be slow and right instead of fast and wrong."
JK - "It needs tweaking and I'm not convinced Dabo is willing to do that or knows how"
Dabo - Actually me, but the whole article is literally explaining how he is adapting and his process going forward. If you have a difference of opinion than a hall of fame coach, by all means, thats your perogotive, but I'm going go with Dabo on this one.
JK - "Being less Judge-mental of elite recruits who want to maximize their NIL"
Dabo - "It's made it a simpler process for us, and we don't waste any time on recruiting (kids who want money). There are some kids who are making a decision just on that and that is fine. Its not to judge people for what they think they want to do."
JK - "Doesn't make them "all about the money" or lacking character."
Dabo - Me again. See above, and also never mentioned lack of character.
JK - "Making generalizations about everyone in the portal"
Dabo - Also me. Never mentioned the portal and Dabo is not one to generalize. He goes out of his way to explain exactly what he thinks, if you're willing to listen.
JK - "They aren't attitude problems but but it seems that Dabo views them that way"
Dabo - Last comment from me. Never mentions or mentioned that I know of attitude problems of a recruit. "It's not to judge people for what they think they want to do, but then there's kids over here that that's important (NIL), but that's not what they're really making their decision on. And that's the kids that come to Clemson".
Three other points Dabo mentioned that sum up his coaching philosophy to me are
1) He wants his offer to mean something. He doesn't offer 200 kids. When we make an offer, it is committable.
2) Once an offer is accepted, as long as the young man holds up his end of the bargain, he won't kick a kid out because he lacks talent or was mis-evaluated.
3) He wants to develop (as men and football player) and graduate everyone. I know everyone will say this, but the majority of coaches' actions prove that's just lip service.
Clemson is different. We have many positives that Dabo takes advantage of, and there's are some restrictions we have to overcome. Clemson is not for everybody, and everybody is not Clemson material.
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110%er [5014]
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Best reply ever! ***
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Apr 5, 2024, 5:02 PM
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Scout Team [179]
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Re: I read the article. Yes, Dabo addressed those issues.
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Apr 5, 2024, 10:03 AM
[ in reply to I read the article. Yes, Dabo addressed those issues. ] |
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I guess the Judge part of your name is okay, but you give the real Judge Keller a bad name. Saying our program has declined? Don’t get how some of you older folks like me can say such a thing. Our program is still to the standard it needs to be and as long as we have Dabo Swinney it will stay a place that builds not only football players but great young Clemson men. Wake up, Dabo is right in the way he does things. The was an Alabama Boy but now he is a Clemson Man. The real Judge Keller was too!
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CU Guru [1257]
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Orange Blooded [3629]
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Re: I read the article. Yes, Dabo addressed those issues.
Apr 5, 2024, 12:38 PM
[ in reply to I read the article. Yes, Dabo addressed those issues. ] |
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Those issues were due to hiring from within and not the best/better coaches that were available. This led to poor recruiting and especially the lack of player development. Our new OL coach is a great example of the type of coaches we need.
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Standout [348]
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Re: This was a great strategy a decade ago.
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Apr 5, 2024, 8:47 AM
[ in reply to This was a great strategy a decade ago. ] |
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Did I miss something? I didn’t see any mention of the portal by Dabo in this article, much less any generalization of his attitude that you claim he has. I would expect he uses the same criteria for portal transfers that he uses for recruits. I doubt there are a great many who would qualify which doesn’t mean he wouldn’t take a transfer from the portal under the right circumstances. I’m good with his approach on recruiting and the portal.
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All-In [44060]
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He didnt mention the portal this time.
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Apr 5, 2024, 8:58 AM
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I did, because I consider it an important part of recruiting, and one that he hasn’t shown a willingness to adapt to.
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Hall of Famer [22766]
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Re: He didnt mention the portal this time.
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Apr 5, 2024, 9:06 AM
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If Dabo applies the same criteria to players in the portal as he does to high school players it makes sense that he hasn’t found very many to offer. How many players are there in the portal compared to how many are in high school? If we only find 65 high school players across the entire country that we want to give offers to, then apply that ratio to the number of players in the portal and see how many that equates to. And he did make a couple of offers to OL prospects in the portal this year so you saying he isn’t adapting is just wrong. But we all know you never let the truth get in the way of your narrative.
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110%er [5014]
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Another excellent reply!***
Apr 5, 2024, 5:04 PM
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110%er [8036]
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Re: He didnt mention the portal this time.
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Apr 5, 2024, 9:20 AM
[ in reply to He didnt mention the portal this time. ] |
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I did, because I consider it an important part of recruiting, and one that he hasn’t shown a willingness to adapt to.
Everyone is clear with your views on our football team using the portal. Obviously, Dabo does not agree with your perspective. He built (or rebuilt) the program doing things his way as he calculated we could not be just like UGA or Ohio St and expect to beat them at their game. It's fair to question if Dabo's way will work as many questioned his methods earlier in his career. Folks screamed that we would never win anything based on his not pushing guys off the roster who did not show early potential, not pursuing top ranked guys who did not fit the culture and offering too many folks from Daniel. The landscape has changed with the portal and NIL but Dabo has also changed based on signing a few more guys in anticipating roster openings, OVs in the summer and other less noticeable changes. Will it be enough? The jury is still out but I will bet on Dabo vs. a random poster who has opinions but no experience managing a program.
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Orange Blooded [4947]
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Re: This was a great strategy a decade ago.
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Apr 5, 2024, 8:51 AM
[ in reply to This was a great strategy a decade ago. ] |
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Clemson has never chased the elite recruits who are more about the individual than the team. Doesn’t matter if NIL is part of that discussion or not. Honestly, it could be that when some of those players starting looking Clemson’s way, after the national championships, is when we missed in recruiting.
Dabo is bringing in the same type of players he did prior to NIL and recruiting at a similar level. Now, it could be argued that the top recruiters are getting richer through the portal, but if we can get back to the 2015-2018 hit rate in recruiting and retain talent at a higher rate than most we may be in a better position than everyone else.
The portal is taking depth from top teams who can’t pay everyone and distributing it around to middle teams who can’t recruit at Clemson’s level. It will take a little luck but we have seen it happen twice already. Go Tigers!
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Legend [16264]
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Re: This was a great strategy a decade ago.
Apr 5, 2024, 10:15 AM
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Dabo essentially stated here that NIL has made these types of evaluations of kids focused on individual over team easier on him and his staff, with that element being transparent now unlike before.
Considering how many players you need to be in lockstep, on the same page, playing for each other, to win consistently at a high level in this sport, this is a winning approach.
Some on here are seemingly unwilling to acknowledge Dabo not only being a pioneer with NIL when he immediately assembled a marketing and branding apparatus for players when this first came to fruition, an effort which grew to support basketball and all other Clemson athletics, but also his mastery of putting it to work on retention and strengthening the team's nucleus.
Message was edited by: wildblulou®
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Hall of Famer [22766]
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Re: This was a great strategy a decade ago.
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Apr 5, 2024, 8:59 AM
[ in reply to This was a great strategy a decade ago. ] |
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So once again you think you know how to run this program better than Dabo. When you become head coach, you can implement what you think is best. Troll.
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Legend [17626]
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110%er [8036]
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Re: Your opinion.
Apr 5, 2024, 9:50 AM
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Get back to me when Brad wins any kind of championship trophy.
I believe he won an international trophy in Europe a few years ago.
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Legend [17626]
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Re: Your opinion.
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Apr 5, 2024, 10:10 AM
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I’m talking against NCAA competitors, not Sister Sadie Dinkins Sunday School class competition.
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110%er [8036]
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Re: Your opinion.
Apr 5, 2024, 10:44 AM
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I’m talking against NCAA competitors, not Sister Sadie Dinkins Sunday School class competition.
Words mean things so I got back to you as requested.
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All-American [566]
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Oh, you were serious when you mentioned the European Vacation exhibitions..ok****
Apr 5, 2024, 7:25 PM
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Walk-On [104]
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Re: This was a great strategy a decade ago.
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Apr 5, 2024, 10:23 AM
[ in reply to This was a great strategy a decade ago. ] |
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I am sorry, but this is another inane swipe at a dabo
by JK. You need your own basketball board to play on JK,
because here all you do is swipe at Dabo. " being less judgmental
of elite recruits who want to maximize their NIL. Wanting to capitalize
on that doesn’t necessarily make them “all about the money” or lacking
in the characteristics we are looking for at Clemson." If you are
looking for all the money, you ain't looking for the Clemson experience.
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CU Guru [1257]
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Re: This was a great strategy a decade ago.
Apr 5, 2024, 10:23 AM
[ in reply to This was a great strategy a decade ago. ] |
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And for everyone to view you a certain way is also unfair. But......there is something to be said concerning trends.
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Orange Blooded [3060]
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Re: This was a great strategy a decade ago.
Apr 5, 2024, 10:43 AM
[ in reply to This was a great strategy a decade ago. ] |
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I'd say the majority of offers are non-committable when schools reach the 100s. How can you avoid abandoning your morals and principles by offering kids you aren't willing to take at the time of the offer?
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110%er [5498]
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Re: This was a great strategy a decade ago.
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Apr 5, 2024, 10:45 AM
[ in reply to This was a great strategy a decade ago. ] |
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I hear what you are saying JK but Peter Woods, Wesco, Sammy Brown etc could have went anywhere and demanded big paydays but they chose CU. They will end up getting their fairshare.
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CU Medallion [55434]
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Re: This was a great strategy a decade ago.
Apr 5, 2024, 11:07 AM
[ in reply to This was a great strategy a decade ago. ] |
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IMO, I don't think that's the case at all bc, NIL money goes to the shinning stars out on the field. NIL representatives aren't handing out NIL money bc of what a HS players done at the HS level, they are offering NIL money to kids that are getting it done at the college level. They want the athletes that are being portrayed as the brightest stars at the college level.
Representatives that are signing the checks for Name, Image, and Likeness of sports stars, they're not paying that money for an athlete just bc they were a 4 or 5 star player coming out of HS. They are giving NIL money to players at the college level only, It's the college level Faces, Uniforms and Numbers they want representing their company or the products they supply to the general public, and if a player isn't making his/her name known to the general public with shining star performance on gameday, they are no help with promoting their company or their products. A manager or a worker could do the same as an unknown in the sports world...
NIL money is only looking for the big splash guys on gameday, after gameday, after gameday. Their name, face, uniform and number has to do big things on the field or court, and if not they won't get a dime of NIL money. The team as whole don't get NIL money handed out to them unless that super star player/players representing a company with their Name, Image, and Likeness wants to share their NIL money with the team...
If I were a player on a team where a QB, WR, RB, DE, or DB was getting an NIL check and they wouldn't share that money with their teammates, that shining star would lose its shine bc without their team members giving a 100% of themselves on every play, that shining star would fall from the pedestal they were able to get up on with the help of their teammates. I would surely be whispering in my teammates ears, why are you giving so much of yourself with only one guy reaping the NIL checks bc of our hard work, and they are refusing to share with the guys that are helping to make their job easier and allowing them to shine on the field and in their bank account. A team sport is very unattractive with only one person giving a 100%...
QB can't get passes off with a O L, WR, can catch the ball if the QB can't have time to pass it, RBs won't run far without an OL blocking. It all fits together and works if everyone is doing their job, and one or two players can not shine without the help from the team. I believe the team should be getting a share from the star that the team help to shine!!!
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CU Guru [1900]
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bruh. it's been like 3 years. in the long term, this is a blip on the radar
Apr 5, 2024, 11:39 AM
[ in reply to This was a great strategy a decade ago. ] |
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Yet another example of the 15-second attention span in our current culture. No one's got patience for anything any more and expects results immediately, when that's just not reality. I, for one, am willing to give a guy that's won consistently for his tenure, the benefit of the doubt.
And on a related note, speaking of patience, it'd be realllllllll easy to throw some shade at other coaches and programs from our fine university, but I digress...
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CU Guru [1377]
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Re: This was a great strategy a decade ago.
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Apr 5, 2024, 12:49 PM
[ in reply to This was a great strategy a decade ago. ] |
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Dabo didn’t make any generalizations about people in the portal. I knew you’d be on this thread bashing him and our program. Any chance you get right?
### clown 🤡. I bet you secretly pull for us to lose. Go be an FSU fan or something. Nobody here likes you.
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CU Guru [1344]
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Re: This was a great strategy a decade ago.
Apr 5, 2024, 8:22 PM
[ in reply to This was a great strategy a decade ago. ] |
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UT and Texas A&M are paying $$Millions for NIL every year. Nobody has more Money or spends more. #1 recruiting class and Jimbo Fisher gets fired for $75 Million, Texas has 1 good year with a QB that wanted to go to UT, and keeps Arch Manning on the bench as a $3 Million backup?
CRAZY money programs.
If a kid is just looking for money, let them goes elsewhere.
Love Dabo and the way he runs the Tigers!
All-In!!
Go Tigers, Beat Georgia!
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MVP [541]
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Re: TNET: Swinney explains why Clemson's recruiting policy not only works, but thrives
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Apr 5, 2024, 9:27 AM
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Dabo sticking by his guns! I don't always agree but respect his philosophy. Yes, there have been and still are times when you would think grabbing a plug and play guy (let's say WR for example but there are others) could help the team in the short term. However, the minute you change your standard and chase someone who doesn't fit your overall plan with $$$ simply for possibly winning another game or two, you've sent a message to the entire team. He will take the right person at the right time but is not going to lower his standards to do so and I applaud him for that.
For now at least, Clemson remains a University, dedicated to developing youngsters into tomorrow's leaders, not a football team. Dabo believes this and all of us who hold a degree from here appreciate his efforts to keep our degrees meaningful.
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CU Medallion [58455]
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Dabo knows exactly what he's doing.***
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Apr 5, 2024, 10:08 AM
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110%er [8036]
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Re: Dabo knows exactly what he's doing.***
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Apr 5, 2024, 10:50 AM
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Typically this is true but the fact is the past few years we underperformed. Lots of things changed during that time like NIL, Portal, covid, the hiring of new coaches and two QBs who did not live up to expectations. Some of the things were outside of Dabo's control like recruiting over the internet and 5* QBs underperforming but others like the hiring of coaches and the use of the portal were in his control. Having a discussion about the disconnect is healthy. Dabo makes way more good decisions than bad but is certainly not perfect (none of us are).
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CU Medallion [58455]
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Sure, not claiming he's perfect by any means. I agree there have been a few
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Apr 5, 2024, 11:47 AM
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factors that contributed to a couple of disappointing seasons, and I fully embrace the discussion. I just agree 100% with his ideas as expressed in the article with regards to recruiting philosophy. I think any suggestion that Dabo is out of touch or needs to get with the times in that regard is laughable.
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Orange Blooded [3730]
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He is the GOLD standard now - but I feel the spiral toward a semi-pro league
Apr 6, 2024, 7:55 AM
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…will devour him just as it did Nick Saban.
College football will transition further and further from its original goals to the inevitable semi-pro status.
The cobbling together of a college degree from FOUR (4) different sets of college transcripts through portal-jumping-for-dollars with the final year’s transcript plastering their institution’s name on the degree is a mockery of the system.
While NOT for Swinney, the degree portion of the college football is ALREADY a joke. He’s doing his best to hang onto what’s left, and I applaud him for it.
There are just too many more powerful forces behind the drive to crush college football for their own revenge for being born.
CDS is an absolute gem to Clemson University.
I just can’t see him lasting for another 3 years before he goes the Saban route.
And that will be the SADDEST day EVER for Clemson University.
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All-American [550]
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Re: He the GOLD standard now - but I feel the spiral toward a semi-pro league***
Apr 6, 2024, 8:09 AM
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Head Coach [789]
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Re: TNET: Swinney explains why Clemson's recruiting policy not only works, but thrives
Apr 6, 2024, 8:18 AM
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Whenever I hear a national pundit say that Dabo refuses to adjust to today’s College Football environment, I chuckle because it’s clear they do not understand the culture Dabo has in the Clemson football program.
When they say, he refuses to use the portal, they are wrong. 100% factually wrong. He has used the portal. He will use the portal. He’ll likely use the portal more in the future.
I know for a fact, Clemson has used the portal, much more than publicly known, and we will continue to do so. Stay tuned.
if they said he does not use the portal the way most programs do, I would agree, and I would say I’m really glad he does not use the portal as others do.
Bottom line is some people understand the culture Dabo has built and will continue to build and some people do not understand it and probably never will understand it.
Fortunately, Clemson doesn’t need everybody to understand the culture of the Clemson football program. We just need 25 studs to understand it each year.
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Oculus Spirit [93703]
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That wasn't for the faithful here, it was for the visitors who lurk about.
Apr 6, 2024, 8:27 AM
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Dabo's attitude was never hidden and, Lord willing, will never be subverted.
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