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110%er [7723]
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Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:09 AM
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I'd like the opinion of others on the play of Muse thus far.
In my opinion, he has been a liability at safety. It's not just the targeting call. He has missed a couple of tackles. He also hasn't been great in coverage. He basically tackled the receiver against Auburn and the refs completely missed the call.
I like his aggressiveness and his athleticism. I am just not sold on his dependability. Thoughts?
Edit: stop will the BS responses. Either discuss it or don't post. Trying to have a football discussion analyzing the play of one of our starters. Would you rather discuss kneeling on the football board?
Message was edited by: gtriple®
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All-TigerNet [11067]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:13 AM
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maybe write Dabo a letter and see what he thinks. Your insight could be valuable.
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110%er [7723]
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Apologies for my football discussion on the football bored
Sep 27, 2017, 10:17 AM
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I'll go back to politics now
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All-In [27366]
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More importantly, does Tanner
Sep 27, 2017, 10:19 AM
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kneel or stand.
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Trainer [34]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:13 AM
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Free I. Simmons. Muse is a liability. Probably needs to bulk up to ILB.
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Letterman [275]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:14 AM
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Um he's only played in 3 1/2 games he still young and learning. This is his first meaningful season, give it time he's gonna put it all together.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:26 AM
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True. Experience is definitely important for a safety. He has had a good bit of playing time earlier in his career.
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Starter [350]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:16 AM
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I FEEL THE SAME WAY...I THINK KVON AND SIMMONS SHOULD BE OUT THERE GETTING MAJORITY OF SNAPS BUT THAT WOULD BE A LOT OF INEXPERIENCE OUT THERE BUT THEY ARE SURE TACKLERS. VAN SMITH- IF HE ISN'T TAKING A BAD ANGLE HE IS GETTING RAN OVER. TANNER I FEEL LIKE HE IS AN DORIAN TYPE LB PLAYER. LB'S AND DL SEEM TO ALWAYS PLAY THE BEST PLAYERS... DB'S EHHH THEY ARE ALL OVER THEY PLACE
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All-In [36450]
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We can talk about whomever u want...
Sep 27, 2017, 10:16 AM
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But I don't have to listen.
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110%er [7723]
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Then why post?***
Sep 27, 2017, 10:23 AM
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Easy Gtrips- he has a right to poast***
Sep 27, 2017, 10:27 AM
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Orange Blooded [3769]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:17 AM
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Agree on Muse. Also he tends to try to go for the big hit which results in missed tackles and targeting calls. Just bring him to the ground
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110%er [7723]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:24 AM
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Yea that's what I've seen too. He swings for a home run every time. Sometimes he will hit it, other times he will strike out. That's not really what a safety is supposed to be.
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Orange Blooded [3573]
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He reminds me of DeAndre McDaniel
Sep 27, 2017, 10:18 AM
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a HUGE hitter, and a big play guy. But does have some liabilities. Up to Dabo to determine if the positives outweigh the negatives.
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CU Medallion [55433]
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Re: He reminds me of DeAndre McDaniel
Sep 27, 2017, 10:31 AM
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He does like putting the heavy hit on our opponnets, but this is his first season getting snaps with the first team, and he will grow up, and his speed will pay off big time when it's all said and done. With no coaching experience myself, I'm going along with the best DC in the country in Brent Venables, and who ever he chooses to play is A okay with me. Brent Venables knows!!!
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Orange Blooded [3384]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:20 AM
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Didn't know all of you had been attending practices. I think the coaching staff has been at all of them and made the decision that Tanner would start. Based on these FACTS they probably made the best decision.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:25 AM
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We have watched 4 games plus his playing time last season. Are we not allowed to discuss this?
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Orange Blooded [3384]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:28 AM
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Who do you think would know more you or the coaches?
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Orange Blooded [3384]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:29 AM
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I mean really four whole games, wow!
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110%er [7723]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:31 AM
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Plus all of his playing time last year. What would you like to discuss waterboy? It seems like you don't like football discussions.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:29 AM
[ in reply to Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse? ] |
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I never claimed that. All I've done is stating what I have observed. Not once have I said that somebody else should be the starter. Stop assuming that criticizing a player means that I am doubting our coaches.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Any time you label a starter a "liability" you are implying
Sep 27, 2017, 10:47 AM
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that someone else should start.
There's a big difference between a guy who needs to refine his game through experience and coaching and a guy who is costing us games because he can't handle the job.
When you started the discussion with such a harsh opinion, you almost guaranteed you'd get push-back from T-netters who believe the coaches know personnel better than fans.
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110%er [7723]
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Boulware was a liability in coverage
Sep 27, 2017, 10:52 AM
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Everyone knew it. Opposing teams exploited it. TNet'ers discussed it. Boulware still started and did extremely well at what he could.
"guy who is costing us games because he can't handle the job." Tried finding this in my OP. Couldn't.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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You'e confusing having a weakness with being a liability.
Sep 27, 2017, 11:19 AM
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Pretty much every player has a 'weakness" in some facet of their game ... but that doesn't mean they're an overall liability to the team.
To me, being a liability means you don't belong on the field.
I know you just wanted to have a discussion about your observations and I applaud that. I just thought you began the discussion with a descriptor that was a bit harsh for the actual situation and it became a "trigger" for those who might have agreed with you if you'd used a less incendiary term.
So, I'll just finish up with this ... I think Muse has a lot to learn, but I do not consider him a "liability" on the field.
In fact, I'd like to have 11 guys on defense with his overall talent, speed, aggression and desire, and to let the coaches teach them how to be complete players.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: You'e confusing having a weakness with being a liability.
Sep 27, 2017, 11:21 AM
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True. I'll use a different word from now on. Thanks for being level-headed.
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CU Medallion [55433]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:54 AM
[ in reply to Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse? ] |
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IMO, you should never call out a Clemson player in an open form to talk as negative as you have about the player. Keep in mind that he chose to come and play for Clemson, he wasn't made to come. Plus our coaches are the ones that put him in to play bc there is something they see he give us out on the field. He just didn't say, I'm going out on the field and play today, BV put him out there, so if you want to talk crap, Talk crap about BV bc, the worst player on out team will go out and play if a coach sends him out there, and you would to, and you would hate it if folks were talking about what bad job you done, as I'm sure Tanner would hate reading your opinion of him after doing as well as he could do at this stage in his career. Just saying, when you have nothing good to say about one of our kids that chose Clemson, just don't say nothing at all. I mean we are 4-0 with him in the game against some pretty good teams!!!
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110%er [7723]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:58 AM
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So we are only allowed to have positive discussions? Sounds like a big circle jerk.
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Starter [350]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 11:06 AM
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I KNOW RIGHT... PEOPLE THINK YOU HAVE TO PRAISE EVERY PLAYER ON THE TEAM... CALL IT LIKE YOU SEE IT!!! THATS WHAT MAKES TOPICS LIKE THIS GOOD.. YOU GET TO HEAR THE GOOD AND BAD!
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Rock Defender [54]
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CU Medallion [51555]
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CU Guru [1534]
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Pretty much like Boulware
Sep 27, 2017, 10:32 AM
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Ben was a liability too... he was great on blitzes.. and pretty good at stuffing runs... but when teams isolated him into pass coverage... it was bad news.
Muse is an unknown quantity just yet... let's see some more before determining what he brings to the table.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: Pretty much like Boulware
Sep 27, 2017, 10:34 AM
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They do have some similarities. Ben wasn't athletic enough to cover most RBs, TEs and slot receivers. Tanner doesn't have that restriction. He is a great athlete. His issue hasn't been the physical side.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Bingo.
Sep 27, 2017, 10:35 AM
[ in reply to Pretty much like Boulware ] |
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I think everyone saw Ben's liabilities, but no one ever suggested we bench him in favor of someone else. At least not to his face.. :}
And too, I trust the coaches and the reasons why they have Tanner out there. Regardless, way too early to make any kind of thesis on his playing abilities and weaknesses. Looks to be a fine player and leader to me so far...kind of like that cat named Ben Boulware. Legendary Beast.
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CU Guru [1640]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:32 AM
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Kind of reminds me of Ben Boulware his freshman season on special teams and mop up duty... All over the place at 100 miles an hour... Problem is definitely not lack of effort. More like youth but he is getting better. He looked really good on a couple of plays against BC. Will be fine as year goes on. My two cents.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:35 AM
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Thank you. I just wanted to see if I was focusing too much on his misses. Not sure why some take this personally.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:37 AM
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He has played better than Van Smith IMO. I think K'von is the best Safety we have.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:39 AM
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Hasn't Van been injured? I really do like Wallace.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:50 AM
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He has started the last 2 games I believe. Wallace just has great instincts I believe. Van has played good this year though but he tackles high and takes bad angles. Muse has missed a couple of tackles but everybody does. Muse needs to learn to not lead with his head as much but has played great.
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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I think you're taking a few random examples and
Sep 27, 2017, 10:40 AM
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extrapolating them to his entire body of work.
Calling him a liability is a bit of a stretch.
Sure, the missed tackle against BC was a bit disconcerting. He took a bad angle and failed to wrap up. Not a great play, but then again, only one play out of an entire game.
I see him as an aggressive guy who loves to hit. Admittedly he may be trying too hard to get the big hit right now. But as others have pointed out, he's a new starter and he needs to learn discipline as well as aggression.
He'll gt better as he matures. If he doesn't he won't continue to start.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: I think you're taking a few random examples and
Sep 27, 2017, 10:42 AM
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Thank you. I do hope that these few examples are exceptions and not a pattern. They just happen to be the most memorable part of his play during the first third of the season.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Curious...
Sep 27, 2017, 10:49 AM
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How many "examples" have you seen out of the total plays he's been in? Even after sitting out for an entire game, he's 3rd on the team in tackles. That's very impressive.. Not a "liability" by any stretch of the imagination.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: Curious...
Sep 27, 2017, 10:53 AM
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Why was he sitting for the whole game?
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Rock Defender [54]
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It was an inadvertent helemt-to-helmet blow.
Sep 27, 2017, 11:10 AM
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You mean that?
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Rock Defender [54]
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And btw,
Sep 27, 2017, 11:11 AM
[ in reply to Re: Curious... ] |
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Again, how many examples out of how many plays?
3rd on the team in tackles is MIGHTY impressive, especially if he busts so many plays like you suggest.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: And btw,
Sep 27, 2017, 11:16 AM
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I said "few examples". But they are the most remembered plays made by Muse for me this season. Just an opinion through a third of the season. Thanks for the discussion.
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Rock Defender [54]
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That's cool.
Sep 27, 2017, 11:19 AM
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I hope you do understand most people disagree with your synopsis, including the coaches. He is third on the team in tackles, so obviously the few examples you seem to have in your head are BY FAR in the very small minority.
It's all good. Go Tigers!
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1st Rounder [628]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:46 AM
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Muse is A-OK w/ me. Plays the way I think I live - go for the big hits, miss a few but always come out on top in the end. If you put out full effort, you're gonna overshoot once in a while but when you hit, man, it's sweet. I'd like to have a team full of Tanner Muse. He'll be coached to control his enthusiasm, nor curb it. Remember, Safety is a position, not a lifestyle. Maybe you don't understand, not everyone does.
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All-In [38434]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 10:54 AM
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So we are musing about Muse ? I think Tanner is a hellava player and look forward to seeing him on the field vs VT .
Go Tigers !
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110%er [5056]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 11:13 AM
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I'm trying to figure which Muse you have been watching.
Kid is a 4.4 guy with tremendous athleticism and aggression. He hasn't been that bad in coverage but has been over aggressive at times on tackling. That comes with film and texchnique coaching. Through the 1st 4 games of his young career I will say I would take him over Jayron anyday of the week...Kid is a playmaker...just be patient.
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110%er [7723]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 11:18 AM
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Will do. I liked Jayron a lot and think that an injury might have hurt him his last year. Muse can definitely be better though.
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Orange Blooded [2721]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Sep 27, 2017, 12:10 PM
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I actually love Muse back there. He has missed some tackles and has been over aggressive at times, but as you've noted his athleticism and range is elite form the position and I would rather have an aggressive, physical player back there then someone tentative. We are an aggressive defense. From all accounts Muse is also a highly coachable guy, so I see him improving in terms of recognition and decision making as the season goes by. I think Simmons is similar in terms of measurable size but is a significantly less reliable tackler ath this point, so in my mind he's not an option to replace Muse. Wallace is an incredible player. I think he could start anywhere in the defensive backfield, so I would love him to get more and more pt, but not at the expense of sitting Muse down. I like what we have doing on across the defense. But it will take some time for all the lights to come on.
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Letterman [285]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Oct 14, 2017, 11:16 AM
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I just came across your post after googling tanner muse is a liability and he proved it again last night. Time after time he bites hard on play action or motion action and is beat over the top. Every time there’s a wide open receiver it’s alway Muse that blew the coverage on these deep balls.
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CU Guru [1127]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Oct 14, 2017, 12:21 PM
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Been discussed several times that muse hasn't been the one busting on a lot of these but others have. Not sure about last night but not sure that carter wasn't supposed to carry 3 vertical there and muse looked like he was bracketing the backside receiver and just gave great effort trying to chase.
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All-Conference [409]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Oct 14, 2017, 11:32 AM
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Simmons seems like the best option there. I know he's younger but he plays with better instincts and natural ability.
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110%er [7555]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Oct 14, 2017, 11:58 AM
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my opinion is he can not cover a 90 year-old man going out for a pass....but I can say that for most all of our guys in the secondary last night.....because they did not have a clue out there......Go Tigers!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Starter [386]
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Muse is a stud
Oct 14, 2017, 12:04 PM
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Nope. Muse is a stud. Super impressed with him this year. He's like Boulware but better.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I don't recall safety play being one of our strong points
Oct 14, 2017, 12:14 PM
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CU Guru [1640]
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Ice Ice Baby!
Oct 14, 2017, 12:16 PM
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NM
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Orange Blooded [4660]
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Re: Can we talk about Tanner Muse?
Oct 14, 2017, 12:53 PM
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I’d honestly like to see him transition over to SLB since we are only 2-deep at that position and Tanner seems to prefer cheating up 15 yards on every play anyway. Isaiah Simmons looked much more comfortable back there last night in my opinion. If we learned anything watching Ben Boulware play, it’s that tenacity and aggression can sometimes, not always but sometimes, leave you out of position. Last night was also the first time I felt as though Venables was not putting our players in the best position to succeed. I hope film study is productive today... Georgia Tech is drooling in their laps this afternoon.
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