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Hall of Famer [22302]
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Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate...
Dec 22, 2022, 5:38 PM
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...all the threads and messages here that were spawned as a result for Dabo's presser. It was very educational for me. I appreciate learning how people think regarding Christianity, both from Christians and non-Christians. I appreciate learning that not every Christian believes the same thing. I appreciate seeing that non-Christians have many paths that lead them to their conclusion that Christianity is not true.
Most of all, I appreciate the civil discourse that permeated the various threads. Learning how and why people come to different worldviews is extremely beneficial to me.
It does point out to me the truth of this statement:
******
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
*******
If you are not a Christian you perceive Dabo's comments totally different than a Christian does. And, the two groups will never agree on which perception is right.
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CU Guru [1046]
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Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate...
Dec 22, 2022, 5:57 PM
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AMEN,BROTHER!!!
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Orange Blooded [4572]
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C'mon Brett
Dec 22, 2022, 6:00 PM
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You've been here since 2003 and still haven't found the Lounge? =)
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Hall of Famer [22302]
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I didn't start the threads.
Dec 22, 2022, 6:40 PM
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I just started one thread where all I did was post what Dabo actually said.
Then, I just responded to other statements made by others. And, I sincerely appreciate reading all the comments, even in the 200+ and counting thread.
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All-Conference [434]
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Re: I didn't start the threads.
Dec 22, 2022, 9:59 PM
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I’ve known the original poster of that thread for over a decade. One of the most intellectual humans I’ve ever known.
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Legend [19924]
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Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate...
Dec 22, 2022, 6:18 PM
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Christians probably understand what you're saying but most of the heathens might not.
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Legend [19693]
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That's because the message can only be discerned
Dec 22, 2022, 7:29 PM
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spiritually
1 Cor 2:14
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CU Medallion [58415]
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Ultimately, it requires faith, faith in something that can't
Dec 22, 2022, 8:16 PM
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be proved, faith in something that many are able to "reason" away. In my experience, it's something that must be "felt" at a very deep. profound level. Just as the scripture you noted so beautifully describes. I know that many non-believers pass that off as emotional immaturity and sappy sentimental nonsense, and I get that. I don't know how to reach them or convince them; I just know I used to be one of them, and now here I am. I have come to believe that our hearts, or our spirit knows things at a deepr, more profound level than our minds can comprehend or even conceive.
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Hall of Famer [22302]
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Not believing in God also takes faith.
Dec 22, 2022, 8:46 PM
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It just takes a lot more faith to NOT believe than it does to believe.
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CU Medallion [58415]
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Both ways take faith in something.***
Dec 23, 2022, 12:10 AM
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Legend [19693]
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I was one for 39 years
Dec 22, 2022, 8:48 PM
[ in reply to Ultimately, it requires faith, faith in something that can't ] |
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I was one of those who believed I was saved. Baptized at 13, knew what Jesus did on the cross. But I did not know Him, nor Him me. I was a heathen with a capital H, lol. God worked on me for a long time, I resisted. I liked doing things my way, though that led to a lot of poor decisions and hurt. I started going back to church after 9/11, looking for answers. Heard the word, believed it, in my head, but not from my heart, which is where faith must come from. It was a small rural church and I was younger, so they made me a deacon, even though I wasn't truly saved.
Then, my dad died in September 2003. I had a business that was booming. Was making more money than I ever have, yet God was wearing me out. I finally broke and surrendered to the conviction of the Spirit, where spiritual discernment comes from, that I was heading to hell for my many, many sins without Jesus, and I cried out for Him. I knew then what it was to be born again. That was December.
For some reason He called me to preach at the same time, lol. God using the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. I gave away my company, started reading everything I could get my hands on, surrendered to serve in the church, went broke and moved back home to Greenville. Joined East Pickens Baptist Church where I had spoken the previous Fathers Day and God has been providing and opening doors ever since.
People say miracles don't occur anymore. Salvation is a miracle. God comes and lives in us. And if God is in us, we will be changed, and changing. Quite radically sometimes, that was me. But while we're here in this life, we're a work in progress. Constantly battling the old nature as we are transformed by the new.
I know I'd never go back to my old life, much as I thought I enjoyed it. There is no comparison.
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CU Medallion [67844]
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Re: I was one for 39 years
Dec 22, 2022, 9:30 PM
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Knowing what little I know about you before this post I would love to hear you preach. If you have some of your dad's communication ability it would be great. Every time I hear some of his work I realize how much I miss him and how gifted he was.
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Legend [19693]
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Oh, I've been gifted there, in a different way
Dec 22, 2022, 9:37 PM
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one, I was raised in SC so I talk like a Southerner. Two, I have a much better boss than he ever had. Three, the message I preach is not mine. He never heard me preach, or saw me as a preacher. He knew me as a heathen, just like he was most of his life, lol.
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CU Guru [1627]
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Re: I was one for 39 years
Dec 22, 2022, 10:02 PM
[ in reply to I was one for 39 years ] |
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What a testimony Striperfan! What a testimony! May God bless you brother.
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110%er [9656]
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Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate...
Dec 22, 2022, 7:47 PM
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I think you’re the only fan of a different team who has managed to keep a 100% pulse. For that I do applaud you
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1st Rounder [638]
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Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate...
Dec 22, 2022, 7:56 PM
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He has that pulse for good reason. He is one of us more than many of us....
Merry Christmas Bret.
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110%er [5496]
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Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate...
Dec 22, 2022, 7:56 PM
[ in reply to Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate... ] |
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He only speaks the truth and is always well thought out and put into context that everyone understands. Haven’t ever had a problem with his post. Sorry I couldn’t meet up with him when he was up for the Military Appreciation Day. Just couldn’t walk that far.
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate...
Dec 22, 2022, 7:53 PM
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A lot of the Christians that responded didn’t particularly care for Dabo’s comments either.
It just seemed to be a jab at NIL and non religious folks, both of which Dabo disagree with.
They didn’t really make much sense coming from the head coach of a public university’s football program.
He should be looking to welcome players of all religions or lack there of, not using his position to push his religious agenda.
If people want to hear about the Christian god they can go find a church.
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All-TigerNet [10911]
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Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate...
Dec 22, 2022, 8:19 PM
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It's like your post. Religion and speaking about religion is guaranteed by the 1st Amendment. Dabo can speak about religion and what he believes even though he works for the state. The state just can't tell him he has to say it.
You dont have to listen or read about it, if you choose.
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate...
Dec 22, 2022, 8:58 PM
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And you would be ok if he was referring to Allah or some other version of god?
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Legend [19693]
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He has the right to under our consitution
Dec 22, 2022, 9:14 PM
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freedom of religion. I'm glad a Christian heads our program, but if a Muslim, a Hindu, a Druid was winning national championships, I'd still be pulling for Clemson. I.M. Ibrahim, our long time, national championship winning soccer coach was a Muslim I believe
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CU Medallion [58415]
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Dabo does welcome players of all faiths or no faith.
Dec 22, 2022, 8:25 PM
[ in reply to Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate... ] |
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We have had them before and they are totally welcome and respected. No player who comes to Clemson to play football will be pressured in any way by Dabo or his staff to be a Christian if that is not what they believe; they are fully accepted as they are and left alone. It's a non-issue. People choose to go to different schools for a whole variety of reasons, and they don't feel as comfortable at others for just as many reasons. If a recruit feels more comfortable somewhere else bacause Dabo is an open, unapologetic Christian - that's fine - he should go somewhere else. No harm, everybody is happy. Dabo should not be, and in fact is not required to keep his religious beliefs to himself, or stay quiet about how it influences his coaching.
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: Dabo does welcome players of all faiths or no faith.
Dec 22, 2022, 9:05 PM
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I only remember one player that was openly of another religion. Can’t remember the name. Tall lanky wide receiver…
As the head coach I don’t think he should be ok with a player choosing NOT to attend clemson because he is uncomfortable with Christianity being pushed.
And as a Christian, I don’t think he should have the holier than thou attitude that if someone doesn’t like it they can go somewhere else.
But sadly that’s the attitude most Christians have and ironically Jesus taught against doing things to be seen by men.
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Legend [19693]
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Jesus said to be bold in proclaiming Him
Dec 22, 2022, 9:17 PM
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that's what Dabo does. We're His witnesses. Dabo puts God first, as God commands. And it certainly hasn't hurt the football program
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Orange Blooded [2595]
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CU Medallion [58415]
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Whoa, hold on there.
Dec 23, 2022, 12:42 AM
[ in reply to Re: Dabo does welcome players of all faiths or no faith. ] |
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As the head coach I don’t think he should be ok with a player choosing NOT to attend clemson because he is uncomfortable with Christianity being pushed.
First, a coach talking about his faith informing his actions and decisions does not = "pushing Christianity", in that none of his players are required or pressured to accept or practice Christianity. Their religious beliefs do not factor into their playing time or treatment otherwise. Every player's religious beleifs are respcted and are a nopn-factor. Dabo has discussed all of this before.
Secondly, if a player chooses not to attend Clemson because Dabo is openly and unapologetically Christian, then that IS PERFECTLY OKAY. Nobody's rights have been violated. Nobody is pressured to become a Christian. It's a personal choice. Again, Dabo fully respects all players right to hold their own religious views, and does not hold it against them if theirs are different from his.
And as a Christian, I don’t think he should have the holier than thou attitude that if someone doesn’t like it they can go somewhere else.
Again, you are misconstruing what is happening here. Dabo is openly Christian. He is in no way, legally or otherwise, required or expected to keep those views to himself. In fact, it's better if he does talk about it, so recruits and parents and everybody knows exactly where he stands. Then, if a player feels uncomfortable with it, they have the ability to make an informed choice and go elsewhere. That is NOT being "holier than thou"; it's up front and honest.
For the last time, no Clemson player is shown favoritism based on their religious beliefs. Period. Players of all faiths or no faith are welcome and treated fairly and equally. No players are pressured or coerced by Dabo or his staff. Having said that, all Americans are free to express and practice their religious beliefs, and a coach does not forego that right when he works for the government. Practicing and expressing does not = pressuring or "pushing".
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: Whoa, hold on there.
Dec 23, 2022, 10:30 AM
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It would be different if he was asked things and answered honestly. He forced it into his statement to try and be cute. He came off as arrogant to a lot of people. Mission failed.
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: Whoa, hold on there.
Dec 23, 2022, 10:34 AM
[ in reply to Whoa, hold on there. ] |
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Also, Jesus said not to do things to be seen by men.
Dabo comes to the top of the hill pointing to the sky in front of 80,000 people.
He does these things for show to push his religious agenda.
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Commissioner [905]
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Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate...
Dec 22, 2022, 8:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate... ] |
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Or they can watch Christians in action and see what they do to display and employ the love and grace of the Creator. Some do it well, some don’t. Being a believer doesn’t stop at the church doors. I think what Dabo means, which many Christians agree with, is that everything good was and is created by God for our enjoyment here on earth and for instruction and reaching out to those who have needs and may or may not be believers. There are hypocrites everywhere but I don’t think Dabo is one of them. I think all he does shows he is genuine. In 14 years I don’t think I have heard of any complaints from players and I guarantee that most parents would appreciate the Clemson FB culture vs a lot of others we could name for their sons.
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CU Medallion [52375]
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Legend [19693]
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The people in the church are commanded by God
Dec 22, 2022, 9:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate... ] |
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to go into the world and declare Jesus, not just to speak about Him in church, much as that may be what you want.
When has Dabo ever turned away a player for religious reasons? He's had many from different faiths and those who believed nothing, and accepted them. He's up front about his beliefs so there is no misunderstanding about them. They know what they are walking into.
Dabo said his life, and this program, which he heads, is built on the foundation of God. If people don't like that, they don't have to play here or pull for the team. And being at a public university places no limitations to one's faith, and following it. Which for Christians includes proclaiming Jesus. The state is not establishing a religion and neither is Dabo, he's simply exercising his faith.
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: The people in the church are commanded by God
Dec 22, 2022, 9:53 PM
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Is what he said considered “declaring Jesus”?
He was taking a jab at NIL.
It amazes me how Christians will get upset at the slightest bit of perceived intolerance towards their religion but when it comes to non believers it’s “if you don’t like it go somewhere else”.
I don’t think that’s the attitude Jesus is portrayed as carrying and the way Christians cheer on this type of approach (as they did with President Trump) just shows how different modern Christianity is from biblical Christianity, and it’s the reason why a lot of people are turning away and want nothing to do with it.
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Legend [19693]
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I don't get upset at intolerance
Dec 22, 2022, 10:06 PM
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I expect it. It was promised by Jesus Himself. "If the world hated Me, it will hate you also. The servant is not greater than the Master."
I don't view Dabo's remarks as anything but Dabo doing what Dabo always does, give God the glory
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110%er [9656]
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Re: I don't get upset at intolerance
Dec 22, 2022, 10:20 PM
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Oh my. Seriously? Ever since Nero and the lions Christian’s have gone from the persecuted to the persecutor! No examples of Christian persecution can be found in this country, that is unless you want to include that by other Christian’s. It was so bad that they had to have their own states. Catholics wanted to be around other Catholics so they went to Maryland. Quakers went to Pennsylvania, the ones afraid of witches went to Massachusetts.
Even right here in SC the Anglican Church of England persecuted the baptist so much they fled to the upstate. Only recently in the last 150 years has this settled down.
Ever since Nero and the shoe has been on the other foot, Christian’s have firmly inserted that foot into the posteriors of anyone they deemed an unbeliever. Complain about that foot and we’re somehow persecuting you. I ain’t buying this.
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Legend [19693]
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You'll get no argument from me
Dec 22, 2022, 10:34 PM
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that many Christians have used their faith as a club throughout history. Are they really Christians, or just professing, only God knows. Are they misguided or backslidden, only God knows. Are they wolves in sheeps clothing? What I can tell you and most Christians I know would tell you is they do not reflect what the bible actually teaches. None of us are perfect, but we condemn evil whether from the outside, or the inside, at least we're supposed to. We also love our enemy, at least we're supposed to.
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110%er [9656]
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Re: You'll get no argument from me
Dec 22, 2022, 10:44 PM
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Well then you understand that’s why you’re hated by many. Not because of Jesus, but because you’ve behaved badly as a group for centuries.
Edit * millenniums
Message was edited by: InletTiger15®
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CU Guru [1575]
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Re: You'll get no argument from me
Dec 22, 2022, 11:15 PM
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What religion has not had followers behave badly for centuries?
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Orange Blooded [2155]
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Re: You'll get no argument from me
Dec 23, 2022, 7:08 AM
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Right cause they’re all fake.
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Legend [19693]
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That judgment right there is a great example
Dec 23, 2022, 7:36 AM
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of you assuming the role of God. You just condemned all with a blanket statement based on nothing but your opinion. The greatest idol on this planet, is self. I know more than everyone else
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Legend [19693]
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Christians have been persecuted and killed for the name
Dec 22, 2022, 11:20 PM
[ in reply to Re: You'll get no argument from me ] |
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of Jesus for millennia as well. It is happening today in Islamic countries, China, India, and many other places where people will not recant their faith. The Catholic Church killed the reformers.
I agree if we're to be hated, it must be for Jesus, and that is not always the case. But for every demonic cult like Westboro, there are sincere Christians putting their lives on the lines every day in the face of prison, torture, persecution and death, because they will not recant their faith
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110%er [5258]
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he only mentioned God...
Dec 22, 2022, 10:51 PM
[ in reply to Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate... ] |
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he didnt mention christianity. One thing though he has always said is that his primary job as a christian is to love everybody. And that is the greatest sunday school lesson that i have ever learned, and i loved it from Dabo when he was asked at a presser would he recruit a muslim?
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110%er [9300]
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Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate...
Dec 22, 2022, 8:32 PM
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Christianity can be a touchy subject. Would be hard pressed to find someone that could express that as you did.
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CU Guru [1363]
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Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate...
Dec 22, 2022, 9:51 PM
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The arrogance of religious folk drives me crazy. Every religion knows they are right without a doubt. If you don’t believe exactly as they do you are condemned to an eternity of suffering. How arrogant can you be to believe you know for a fact what happens when we die? How arrogant can you be to believe that your way is the only way and that those who disagree will burn forever. If God takes life he’s an Indian giver, who would wanna be such a control freak? If god controls the lands and disease and keeps a watchful eye on me, all I wanna know is who would wanna be such a control freak?
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110%er [5711]
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Re: Y'all will never understand how much I appreciate...
Dec 22, 2022, 10:53 PM
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Well said Bret
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