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Replies: 84
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Webmaster [∞]
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TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 2:07 PM
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All-In [27366]
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Tiger Titan [45863]
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Well ??
Jan 3, 2019, 2:09 PM
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Orange Immortal [62784]
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Re: Well ??
Jan 3, 2019, 2:17 PM
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Really, they are acting desperate for a click!!!
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Legend [6790]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 2:12 PM
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Hate it for everyone but bring on the Bear!
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Asst Coach [810]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 2:12 PM
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That just sux. Hope the NCAA is proud of its inept self.
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Orange Blooded [2441]
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Exactly how is this the NCAA's fault? If this was either ND
Jan 3, 2019, 2:14 PM
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or Bama players who tested positive, would you feel the same way?
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MVP [502]
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Re: Exactly how is this the NCAA's fault? If this was either ND
Jan 3, 2019, 2:30 PM
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Has the NCAA checked Sabans office for the Ostarine?
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: Exactly how is this the NCAA's fault? If this was either ND
Jan 3, 2019, 2:59 PM
[ in reply to Exactly how is this the NCAA's fault? If this was either ND ] |
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Absolutely the same way! This is absolute crap. A shame that we not only have to play Alabama for the NC, but the corrupt NCAA as well. I just hope that our team are rightfully incensed by this, and bring it to the playing field.
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Asst Coach [810]
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Re: Exactly how is this the NCAA's fault? If this was either ND
Jan 3, 2019, 4:06 PM
[ in reply to Exactly how is this the NCAA's fault? If this was either ND ] |
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Yes I would. There is no excuse for an appeal to take so long where these young men's futures are concerned. This is bureaucracy at its very worst. How is everyone going to feel if these players are exonerated? Relieved or cheated?
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Varsity [209]
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The board is likely ready to hear the appeal....
Jan 3, 2019, 11:13 PM
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The board is likely ready to hear the appeal, and can apparently do so on very short notice with minimal turnaround for extenuating circumstances such as these. But it does not sound like players have found a definitive source for the positive test.
Per reports, appeal may only be granted if player unknowingly ingested because either 1) he was not properly informed by school or 2) It was in something that it should not have been.
If it were #1, Clemson would face heavy sanction. I would think a couple suspended players would be the least of the worries if #1 were true--which it most certainly is not.
If #2, with just one player or even two players, it may be hard to pinpoint; but with three, it shouldn't be terribly difficult to find something the three have in common not otherwise shared with the rest of the team. But finding the source, then tracking down possible lot numbers and testing them to prove they are the source is probably no small task. I hope this is the path they are on.
Note that Ostarine has a 23.8 hour half life in the body. Meaning, if you took 20mg of Ostarine on day 1, by day 2 you'd have 10mg left in you system, 5mg by day 3, 2.5mg by day 4, etc. I am not sure how long until it is "undetectable". I am also not sure how much a "sliver of a trace" is, to paraphrase Dabo. But given its super short half life, they'd only need to think back no more than a few days prior to the drug test in the case of accidental ingestion--assuming that cross-contamination as a source would not yield anywhere near a typical full recommended dose of 20mg.
I hate it, but I don't blame the NCAA one bit.
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Asst Coach [810]
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Re: Exactly how is this the NCAA's fault? If this was either ND
Jan 3, 2019, 4:07 PM
[ in reply to Exactly how is this the NCAA's fault? If this was either ND ] |
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Yes I would. There is no excuse for an appeal to take so long where these young men's futures are concerned. This is bureaucracy at its very worst. How is everyone going to feel if these players are exonerated? Relieved or cheated?
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Rival Killer [2952]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 2:14 PM
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Booooo!!!
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All-In [10856]
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I hope Bama's starting guard doesn't somehow get to play***
Jan 3, 2019, 2:14 PM
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Rival Killer [2781]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 2:14 PM
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So that's that, huh? Meanwhile, there's an entire group of "students" coloring maps in crayon in some classroom in Chapel Hill..
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Ultimate Tiger [33242]
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L I A R ! ! !
Jan 3, 2019, 2:28 PM
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They don't have to GO to a CLASSROOM ....... they can color from anywhere !!! It says so in their scholarship !!
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102386]
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Easy now. It's an online course and they have sophisticated
Jan 4, 2019, 12:57 PM
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software which challenges the smartest of them. MS Paint.
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Orange Blooded [2238]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 2:14 PM
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Seems to me like Big Dex is gonna leave for the NFL then. I predict Clemson won’t hear from the NCAA about the appeal until after Big Dex has to either come back or declare for the draft. NCAA is a joke and like others have said before in there eyes it’s guilty until proven innocent.
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Hall of Famer [8350]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 2:34 PM
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I just don't understand why people say this. A drug test proved them guilty. A second test of the sample validated the results. They are not "guilty until proven innocent".
I don't like this any more than anyone else does, and I think it was an inadvertent mistake. But that doesn't make them innocent of violating a rule.
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Orange Blooded [2238]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 3:02 PM
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A second test of the same sample is meaningless. Why was the sample so miniscule? Why if they are tested all year long was something just now found? The NCAA doesn’t care how these student athletes act on campus or in the community but God forbid .02% of a substance is found in there system then string them up. People can’t be roofied or drugged by someone. A pharmaceutical company or company that makes supplements don’t make mistakes. Sounds like a real fair system to me.
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Orange Blooded [2490]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 4:00 PM
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I think / hope that the guys ingested this unknowlingly and that they are cleared soon. However,
1. I suspect the intent of the 2nd test is to rule out measurement error.
2. This could have been Dex's first test; we don't know.
3. We don't know how much of the substance can make a competitive difference. 0.02% doesn't sound like much to you ans me, but that level could have a profound effect on performance.
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Hall of Famer [8350]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 4:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game ] |
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A second test of the same sample is meaningless. Why was the sample so miniscule? Why if they are tested all year long was something just now found? The NCAA doesn’t care how these student athletes act on campus or in the community but God forbid .02% of a substance is found in there system then string them up. People can’t be roofied or drugged by someone. A pharmaceutical company or company that makes supplements don’t make mistakes. Sounds like a real fair system to me.
A second test of the sample is not at all meaningless. It ensures there was no contamination during the testing process. It is also carried out by a different lab and with more detailed analysis. It's critical to prevent false-positives.
What do you mean "why was the sample minuscule"? Do you mean why was the Ostarine found only a trace amount? Two reasons - either they ingested a very small amount, or they ingested a larger amount but it happened days to weeks prior to the test being administered.
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Hall of Famer [8350]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 4, 2019, 12:29 PM
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lol @TD, I guess people don't like facts
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 3:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game ] |
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The drug test revealed "trace" amounts of the substance, and proved nothing. A subsequent test on the same sample provided the same result. As Dabo said, same urine sample----got it?? And you'd expect a different result? Our food and drink supply in this country is so adulterated that any of us could have trace amounts of any number of things in our bodies, and have no idea where they came from.
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Legend [6773]
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Maybe you didn’t read the above
Jan 4, 2019, 12:44 AM
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about contamination of the results. There can be errors made by the lab during the testing process and contamination can occur. So a different lab tests the same sample to ensure that the initial postive results are correct.
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Orange Elite [5487]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 5:12 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game ] |
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This is a case where intent matters. If they unknowingly ingested a banned substance and can demonstrate that they could not possibly have know the banned substance was in an otherwise approved product, they are not going to be "guilty". As I understand it, this particular substance is quite common as an unlisted ingredient in many supplement products. It could even be in products the team provided to players as an approved supplement; the formula the manufacturer uses can vary over time and some lots may contain unapproved ingredients.
The appeal process here would involve Clemson identifying the source and demonstrating that there's no reasonable way anyone other than the manufacturer (or their suppliers...sometimes the banned substances come in other ingredients and are not included intentionally by the manufacturer) could have possibly know it was there short of a mass-spec test.
Compare that to players injecting HGH or other steroids intentionally.
Heck, for all we know, the Osterine could have been included in pesticides sprayed on fruit labeled "organic" (since that label is meaningless) that the players ate.
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Legend [6765]
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Orange Immortal [62784]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 2:15 PM
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Please just stop the breaking news BS!!! If you don't have anything different than we already know, just stop it. You're starting to act childish with the breaking news BULLSH!T!!! Don't appear to be desperate for a reader!!!!!!!!
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 3:07 PM
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You passed English in HS???
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Ring of Honor [21202]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 3:33 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game ] |
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This is a new and final update as of today.
#### dude, you really need to take like 5 minutes before you type responses.
You’re constantly over the top with your angry replies...which are usually incorrect as well as incoherent.
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Heisman Winner [85907]
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Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Jan 3, 2019, 2:18 PM
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NOOOO! It wasn't over then, and it ain't over NOW. Who's with me?
Signed,
Senator John Blutarski
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Ultimate Tiger [33725]
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Ultimate Tiger [33725]
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Re: Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Jan 3, 2019, 3:10 PM
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I also sent this to all my friends that gave up during the Syracuse game....
One of my favorite all time movie clips.
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Legend [6955]
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is their not a lawyer in SC capable of filing an injunction
Jan 3, 2019, 2:18 PM
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Against the NCAA. Seems like a violation of these players civil rights/ due process. Total BS guilty until proven innocent. Defamation of character.
Message was edited by: tigertrain®
Message was edited by: tigertrain®
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Heisman Winner [78391]
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Re: is their not a lawyer in SC capable of filing an injuction
Jan 3, 2019, 2:24 PM
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the problem is they are all coots
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All-Time Great [88574]
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I know 8 people who went to CU UG and USC for law school.***
Jan 3, 2019, 2:49 PM
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Varsity [200]
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Re: is their not a lawyer in SC capable of filing an injuction
Jan 3, 2019, 2:33 PM
[ in reply to is their not a lawyer in SC capable of filing an injunction ] |
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Was thinking the same. I think if I was a player I would file a lawsuit against the NCAA. Especially if I really did not do anything wrong. Not really to try to win but just to stir things up. At the end of the day however, when you play big time sports you shouldn’t be taking anything unless coming from the trainers. Taking your own pills from GNC or wherever “that are ok to take” is probably a very bad idea. Not to mention while part of a high profile team chasing a natty. Another natty that is...
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Legend [6955]
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any Evidence they took anything from GNC or
Jan 3, 2019, 3:01 PM
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anywhere else? What if they eat a protein bar from Walmart? What about when they are home for a Thanksgiving. Big Dex said he didn’t take anything. I have zero reason to not believe him.
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Hall of Famer [8934]
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Hall of Famer [8934]
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All-Time Great [88574]
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Legend [6955]
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its an obscure drug, they found in over the counter
Jan 3, 2019, 3:03 PM
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products. It’s not weed, cocaine, opium or even a steroid. You or I could test positive for it.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: its an obscure drug, they found in over the counter
Jan 3, 2019, 3:10 PM
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You got it!
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All-Time Great [88574]
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Legend [6765]
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CU Guru [1955]
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Re: Is it really guilty until proven innocent when you
Jan 3, 2019, 11:38 PM
[ in reply to Is it really guilty until proven innocent when you ] |
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Joseph - you don't have a #@$#@#&$#**#$**# clue what you're talking about. YES - the entire process is as broken as it gets. The NCAA is a monopoly - already declared EXEMPT by the U.S. Sup. Court from Anti-Trust laws.
The NCAA is a completely autocratic, dictatorial, highly subjective, biased, bought-and-paid-for collection of lapdog jacka$$es who would sell their grandmothers to perpetuate their power & further pad their bank accounts.
For your information, neither YOU nor I could pass one their so-called "drug tests." The only question the NCAA cares about is - "Whom do we want to 'neutralize' or pull a 'hit job' on today?"
Wake up and realize the NCAA is a pack of unscrupulous, spineless, con-artists with no moral compass whatsoever.
Those creeps have the power of life or death, but don't even have the guts to declare a National Champion. Look it up if you doubt me.
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Playmaker [360]
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Re: is their not a lawyer in SC capable of filing an injunction
Jan 3, 2019, 3:07 PM
[ in reply to is their not a lawyer in SC capable of filing an injunction ] |
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If they had anything to substantiate their appeal. There going to appeal but won’t be Heard prior to game says they are appealing based on nothing . If alternative source was found then would be screaming. Just glossing it over until it fades away
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Commissioner [942]
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Ultimate Tiger [35476]
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Re: So CU has done nothing.
Jan 3, 2019, 2:22 PM
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"Clemson filed notices of appeal with the NCAA. "
LOL. I knew CU was doing nothing re. the NCAA Mafia. How does this notice of appeal put Dex. Lawrence on the field for the last two games? What a efffffing joke.
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Legend [6955]
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We have no backbone. We need uncheat lawyers***
Jan 3, 2019, 2:31 PM
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Heisman Winner [78391]
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Re: We have no backbone. We need uncheat lawyers
Jan 3, 2019, 2:36 PM
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People please! When have you ever seen us have a backbone on something like this.
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: We have no backbone. We need uncheat lawyers
Jan 3, 2019, 3:23 PM
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Sadly, never!
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Commissioner [942]
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Re: So CU has done nothing.
Jan 3, 2019, 3:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: So CU has done nothing. ] |
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Total non-speak that codes out to mean "We're not doing anything." With the resources this university has, the "political correctness" shown thus far is amazing. They will do nothing, hoping that all of this will fade into the sunset and they can proceed as a willing syncophant of the NCAA. If they truly believe that our players are innocent, shouldn't they stand up for them? Hey, sue some people back to the stone age. I respect those who may disagree with me, but I'm not a turn-the-other-cheek guy.
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TigerNet Elite [69791]
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In fairness...there is a strict process...
Jan 3, 2019, 3:43 PM
[ in reply to Re: So CU has done nothing. ] |
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by which appeals are filed.
If the University fails to fully comply, the appeal is automatically rejected.
Such is life when the accuser is also judge, jury, and executioner.
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Legend [18408]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 2:36 PM
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Anyone have breaking news on whether or not the bama players who were suspended for Oklahoma game for ncaa violations will get to play? Has any national media pushed for what it was? Seems to me if they were suspended by ncaa then they should have to go through the same bs as our 3.
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CU Medallion [18179]
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Legend [18408]
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Re: they were ruled out last week
Jan 3, 2019, 2:47 PM
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Thanks for posting, I hadn’t heard. Appreciate it! Both of you.
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Associate AD [1051]
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Re: they were ruled out last week
Jan 3, 2019, 7:19 PM
[ in reply to they were ruled out last week ] |
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There you go. Bama players also punished and finished for the season proving it can happen to ANY team. Go Tigers ??
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Heisman Winner [78391]
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All-Time Great [88574]
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Varsity [104]
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No Saban came out later and said it was NCAA
Jan 3, 2019, 3:07 PM
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Orange Elite [5487]
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Re: Almost poitsive they were suspended by Saban for
Jan 3, 2019, 5:16 PM
[ in reply to Almost poitsive they were suspended by Saban for ] |
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"At media day for the game Thursday, Saban said the players committed NCAA violations by making poor decisions. He did not elaborate."
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Commissioner [942]
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Varsity [104]
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There was/is plenty of time for an appeal
Jan 3, 2019, 3:09 PM
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Legend [6780]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 3:30 PM
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I would like to take this opportunity to thank Big Dexter Lawrence for lending his freakish athletic ability and gentle good nature for the benefit of the Clemson Tiger football team and the University in general for the last three years. Best of luck Xbox 360 and finish up that degree in Mathematics. ??
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Orange Phenom [14588]
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Sorry, but this isn't the NCAA's fault. They have a banned
Jan 3, 2019, 3:42 PM
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substance policy and three of our players violated it. The onus is now on Clemson, not the NCAA, to prove that it was the fault of somebody else rather than the players.
Also, "trace amounts" doesn't really mean a darn thing. It's possible that, had they been tested a few days or a week earlier, there would've been much more than "trace amounts" present. The amount doesn't make the players any more or less guilty.
It seems pretty unlikely that the guys intentionally took Ostarine, but it's not crazy to think that they took some kind of supplement that contained Ostarine without fully understanding what was in it. Unfortunately, that alone doesn't make them innocent.
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Orange Blooded [3706]
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Re: Sorry, but this isn't the NCAA's fault. They have a banned
Jan 3, 2019, 10:13 PM
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you should do some reading on the subject before you type. this stuff can stay in a person's fat for a long time and show up in a urine test. these guys could have ingested something months ago that was contaminated with ostarine through sloppy manufacturing processes in some third world country. the amount showing in their test is so small that it provides no competitive advantage. this is a known problem with testing, but the NCAA and other athletic powers continue to punish athletes.
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Paw Warrior [4785]
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Man, I'm heartbroken for these guys especially Big Dex,
Jan 3, 2019, 3:45 PM
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This is most likely his last college go round and not being able to play in the playoffs at all has to be a terrible let down. I believe what they say about not knowing where the substance came from. I know if I was in their shoes I'd be having a hard time with this.
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All-Conference [435]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 3:48 PM
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I thought I read somewhere that if an appeal is filed it has to be expedited within 48hrs...if the appeal is filed why is it not expedited? 48hrs is only Saturday...
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Varsity [104]
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We must not have a good enough case prepared yet for appeal***
Jan 3, 2019, 3:52 PM
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Orange Phenom [14588]
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Varsity [119]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 3:55 PM
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If one of the criteria for appeal is that they did not knowingly take the drug, why not use the polygraph to verify that fact?
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Orange Phenom [14588]
TigerPulse: 100%
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The results of polygraph tests are virtually never
Jan 3, 2019, 3:59 PM
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admissible in court.
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Oculus Spirit [43143]
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Why would an appeal to the NCAA go to court?***
Jan 3, 2019, 4:04 PM
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Varsity [104]
TigerPulse: 92%
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Oculus Spirit [43143]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 1998
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Appeals take time and lots of it. Lawyers need billable hour
Jan 3, 2019, 4:03 PM
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s
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Mascot [15]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 5:07 PM
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Appeal is a strictly-defined process-see description here:
https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/sports/college/clemson/2019/01/01/clemson-players-face-one-year-suspension-pending-drug-test-appeal/2459041002/
After reading this:
"The NCAA will not consider “the type or amount of banned substance detected through the drug test, evidence of the student-athlete’s good character, the degree of remorse demonstrated by the student-athlete, family hardship or history of family dysfunction, and the degree to which the banned substance may or may not affect athletic performance” as mitigating factors."
I'm thinking Clemson likely wants to be very careful and deliberate in preparation and practice by all involved in the hearing
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Clemson Icon [27753]
TigerPulse: 100%
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Joined: 2003
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 5:35 PM
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We don’t like it BUT, rules are rules. The players named had an illegal substance in their system. If had been an Alabama player we would all have an entirely different attitude about this series of events. Let’s ALL learn from this!
Clemson is guilty of having players test positive for a banned substance.
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Tiger Cub [12]
TigerPulse: 86%
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 5:52 PM
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Ostarine is not approved for human consumption anywhere in the world. It can be bought online, but only as a research chemical and is labeled as "not for human consumption".
I don't know how the players got it in their system, but it wasn't through another supplement or hair gel or anything like that.
I also know that any supplements that players take are supposed to be approved through the program's nutritional department. If the players were taking something that they did not get approval for, this is 100% on them.
These players failed a drug test for taking banned substance they had no business taking and its doubtful they didn't know what they were taking. I don't know the pharmacology of Ostarine and how long it stays in the system and is testable, so its possible that they thought it would be out of their system before they were tested.
The only way it blows back on Clemson is if someone with some credibility were to come out and say the school was sanctioning its use. I highly doubt that would ever happen and is probably not true. So the school is in the clear, in all likelihood.
But I don't feel sorry for these players at all. They made their bed. But what this is not is some conspiracy theory, or set-up, or accidental false positive.
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Clemson Icon [27824]
TigerPulse: 100%
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How about providing proof for your last sentence. You seem
Jan 4, 2019, 7:41 AM
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quite confident.
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Associate AD [1051]
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 7:01 PM
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It is what it is folks. Dabo and all of his coaches and assistants have put this behind them because they must remain focused. All players will do the same. We will be fine! Go Tigers!! ??
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CU Guru [1116]
TigerPulse: 99%
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 8:11 PM
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The NCAA is A P.O.S. organization since it was founded and has negatively affected athletes from Jim Thorpe, Paul Anderson, and College's like us with no rapid appeal to their capricious judgments.
It is A Political Organization pure and simple Who's time has come and gone.
It should be replaced with an organization more attuned to the times !
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Team Captain [471]
TigerPulse: 97%
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 9:16 PM
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I'm just surprised that we didn't "discover" the source of contamination shortly after Dabo and the rest of the team staff felt fully confident that the guys were being completely honest and have no idea how this happened.
Just like a urine test with no correlating info for context, a "discovery" of a contaminated source would be impossible to disprove as well and would have allowed the appeals process to be started earlier and finished well in advance of the NCG.
But then again, I understand that Dabo and the rest of the Clemson staff have such a high level of character that they would never participate in such a fashion to put a bookend on this ridiculous turn of events. Sadly, in our overwhelming piety, we're going to let these 3 guys just fall on their swords for doing nothing wrong. (And yes I know there are no 100% guarantees that they are telling the truth, but don't you think just ONE of them would have come forward and spilled the tea by now just to get this crap off their minds and conscience already if they knowingly did something? Hell, almost every other player with a legit failed drug screen in history has..)
And it should be more than evident from the Russia "Investigation" that being patient and turning the other cheek when you've done nothing wrong only gives more time and means for a corrupt bureaucracy to unrelentingly twist the knife in your back. Sometimes, you have to stoop to play on the level of those trying to take you down unfortunately.
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Orange Elite [5493]
TigerPulse: 89%
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Re: TNET: Clemson releases statement on status of suspended players for title game
Jan 3, 2019, 10:18 PM
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Nothing but click bait. Shame on you tigernet
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Ultimate Clemson Legend [102386]
TigerPulse: 100%
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You would permaban us if we trolled like this.***
Jan 4, 2019, 12:58 PM
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