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Freshman [-79]
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To those who claim the offensive scheme is bad
Jan 2, 2023, 11:46 AM
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How would you even know that?
We've played TWO games with a functional QB, who by the way is still developing and growing. In those two games the offense functioned SIGNIFICANTLY better, even though Cade has a lot to learn.
We had almost 500 yards against Tennessee. You can talk about inside the 32 yd line TD failures if you like, but unless you analyze what happened you can't try to pass it all off on "playcalling".
Regardless, it's been TWO MUCH IMPROVED offensive games under the new system. It's NOT the same as what we HAD to run with DJ, so at least give it a season under Cade to see how this offense rolls.
Stop with the ridiculous calls to get a new OC. It's not happening nor should it. Please get that thru your head.
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All-In [30460]
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Freshman [-79]
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That's a nice opinion article.
Jan 2, 2023, 1:17 PM
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Short on substance, but nicely written.
Now, can you at least try to offer a fact-based opinion that counters mine? Feel free to pull whatever data you want from that article. Thank you.
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Legend [18790]
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Re: That's a nice opinion article.
Jan 3, 2023, 9:09 AM
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Yes, your post is an opinion too. Heck, everything is an opinion here.
We did go from 90ish to 49th ranked in offense, so you're right; there is an improvement. Is this good enough for you, for Clemson?
The better question is, should there ever be a 49th-ranked or 90th-ranked offense at Clemson where your coach makes 12 million a year?
Answer is no, we can do better.
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Heisman Winner [108390]
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Freshman [-79]
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Nothing wrong with a man-purse carrying, punchable
Jan 2, 2023, 2:11 PM
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millenial writing op-eds on a man's game. Or is there?
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Starter [368]
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Re: To those who claim the offensive scheme is bad
Jan 2, 2023, 11:51 AM
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I agree. Unless it was Streeter all year convincing Dabo to keep DJ as QB, then I think he's done a good job. DJ couldn't hit the broadside of a barn when throwing to receivers this year. Cade came in and, though he made some mistakes, clearly did a much better job moving the ball.
Dabo (and Streeter) need to get some OL that can protect Cade for sure, but aside from that, I'm not sure what's bee so terrible about the playcalling. There are always things to adjust.
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CU Guru [1822]
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Re: To those who claim the offensive scheme is bad
Jan 2, 2023, 11:58 AM
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Having your best player only have 5 touches and having your freshman qb throw it 54 times in his second start doesn’t sound like a recipe for success. That’s on the OC. Tired of hearing after every game should have got ship more touches.
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Starter [368]
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Re: To those who claim the offensive scheme is bad
Jan 2, 2023, 1:39 PM
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When you're playing a team that is terrible against the pass but pretty good against the run, the offensive game plan made complete sense.
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Freshman [-79]
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EGGS ACKLEY
Jan 2, 2023, 2:27 PM
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That, and we had tremendous balance (45 rushes, 56 passes). I Sometimes wonder if some of these people commenting are even watching the games.
Tennessee actually has a pretty good run defense. It's pass defense where they were below average. Attack their weakness.
We ran 101 plays to their 66.
101 plays is the most we've EVER run in a game.
We had 45 rushes and 56 passes. Outstanding balance.
We had 484 total yards to their 375.
We had 320 passing yards to their 251.
We had 164 rushing yds to their 124.
We had 34 first downs to their 21.
We were 7 of 19 on 3rd down conversions to their 3 of 13.
We had a 36:23 time of possession to their 23:37.
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110%er [6281]
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Re: EGGS ACKLEY
Jan 2, 2023, 3:21 PM
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So hard to see those numbers and remember that we lost. Idk how we managed to only score 1 TD. Things will certainly get better next year tho imo.
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Asst Coach [707]
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Re: EGGS ACKLEY
Jan 3, 2023, 9:18 AM
[ in reply to EGGS ACKLEY ] |
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One reason we had more possession time and more Offensive plays etc.etc. was because Tenn scored quicker and had longer yardage on several plays. Was really hoping we’d beat their D down in the end, but that didn’t happen either.
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Hall of Famer [22688]
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Freshman [-79]
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Pretty obvious he has no clue what he's talking about.***
Jan 2, 2023, 1:46 PM
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CU Guru [1822]
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Re: Pretty obvious he has no clue what he's talking about.***
Jan 3, 2023, 10:51 AM
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pretty obvious you dont know what your talking about. Cade had 74 touches in that game. 54 throws 20 rushes. Thats insane. I dont care how bad their secondary was, putting that kind of load on him was ridiculous. Your best players in Shipley and Maffa had 24 carries. That is not a recipe for success
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Orange Blooded [2780]
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Freshman [-79]
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45 rushes and 56 passes.
Jan 2, 2023, 2:38 PM
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We had 7 more rushes then our season average. We ran 10 more times per game than the last national championship season, with some dude named Travis Etienne.
Nothing to see here.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: To those who claim the offensive scheme is bad
Jan 2, 2023, 12:45 PM
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First off let's address the need for a new OC. We do not need a new OC. We need Jeff Scott back. He was after
all part of two National Championships.(And he would not be new).
As to the new quarterback, yes he made a few critical mistakes, but at least he showed more poise when forced to scramble because our offensive line could not give him adequate protection.( And that has nothing to do with 'play calling").
Am I am thinking with my head.
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Freshman [-79]
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Very reasonable.***
Jan 2, 2023, 1:47 PM
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All-American [593]
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Re: To those who claim the offensive scheme is bad
Jan 2, 2023, 3:49 PM
[ in reply to Re: To those who claim the offensive scheme is bad ] |
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I fear you're giving way too much credit to Jeff Scott's ability to right this ship. What he did in the past at Clemson was with a different cast of characters. Did you follow his success, or lack thereof, at USF?
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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Because the only quarterbacks that could
Jan 2, 2023, 2:15 PM
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Run it successfully were top 10 picks in the draft.
Chad morris had enough of a system that we were more successful with less talent. We’ve relied way to much on talent and not getting guys open with the scheme.
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Freshman [-79]
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That's not true at all.
Jan 2, 2023, 2:35 PM
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Streeter has been OC for one season. He squeezed every ounce out of that QB stone as humanly possible, and once we were able to play the functional QB the offense IMMEDIATELY improved.
A) did you read the entire OP?
B) Did you watch the offense the last two games, with a still developing true freshman?
Street made us much as possible out of a "is what it is" situation. The proof is in the pudding, and I'm personally extremely excited about what he'll be able to show some of y'all once he recreates the offense with the elite QB.
Morris was good for that time. He had nothing, I mean nothing at all to do with the playcalling that won so many games, playoffs, and championships. There's a very valid reason Chad is... where, doing what exactly.
Several teams have NFL capable QBs. Of course they help - that's the way the game works - but it doesn't guarantee elite success.
There's nothing wrong with saying coaches coach better with good players. That's generally the way it works at every level of every sport.
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Lot o points [155929]
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For those who say battery acid isn't drinkable,
Jan 2, 2023, 2:34 PM
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How would you even know that?
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Head Coach [785]
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Re: To those who claim the offensive scheme is bad
Jan 2, 2023, 2:38 PM
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Fair points allorange and I agree, we need a season without DJ to really see what this offense can really do. The calls for firing in sports by outside 3rd parties, fans, analysts, media, (not just on TNet), is one of many tired examples of how kneejerk our society has become.
I’ll ask this though, anyone who thinks we don’t need changes with our scheme, what is Clemson’s identity on offense? What are we? A running team that throws it 40x per game? Honest questions, I’m not trying to be a jerk.
The days of WRU are gone. Imo, we run the QB too much, don’t run our backs enough. We have good TEs but only sometimes utilize them well. We throw too many jump balls for WRs who can’t make those plays consistently, too many WR screens with WRs who don’t block well. Imo, our run game relies too much on Shipley and Mafah breaking first tackles- fortunately those guys are pretty darn good at that. My biggest issue with our offense is we run too many plays that are slow developing. DJU’s pace didn’t help, but it doesn’t mean all those plays were good.
I will say, our red zone offense the first half of this season was much better than the prior season and better than it was in the second half of this season. Players were largely the same. Did our execution get worse? With DJ it did. But I don’t think any other unit on offense got worse as the season progressed. Perhaps O Line once Tate got injured. I think for the most part, opposing teams watched tape, and we ran out of good plays we could run well in the red zone. To me, lack of identity and decline in red zone execution points more to scheme & coaching than players / recruiting.
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Legend [18790]
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Good post.
Jan 3, 2023, 9:18 AM
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Another question, are players not developing? DJ looked pretty good in the first half of the season, and the bad habits crept back in...isn't this a QBs coach's job to get the QB ready? Was Cade's inability to stay in the pocket not seen and corrected in practice?
Did our OL get worse just because Tate went down? McFadden had a horrible game against UT, as did the whole OL.
I think the ACC is pretty weak and out of 3 teams with a pulse, we went 1-2. We almost got beat by GT and Wake too.
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Head Coach [785]
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Re: Good post.
Jan 3, 2023, 10:46 AM
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All good questions and the overall one about development is one I’ve been wondering for a few seasons now. Specifically, how are our players being developed. There are some areas of improvement I see - RBs on pass pro. Not NFL level but has gotten better across the unit. Back in 15-18, I genuinely think our defense made our offense better and vice versa. How we practiced made our players better. I remember CW saying “iron sharpens iron” and I think that was real back then. Wasn’t just coach speak. It’s why we were more prepared for those elite teams end of year. I question how much that occurs now. Is it because of new/different coordinators, different players / lack of locker room leaders… who knows, prob combo of a lot of factors.
For our O line vs UT, I think it was poor prep. Looked to me like we didn’t practice for the speed UT had on their front line and the entire game we were trying to get in that gear. Not sure why. Reminded me of ND. “Had a good week of practice, not sure what happened.” Well, if you didn’t practice for what they do well, were you prepared properly?
Re: questions about QBs, I just think the manner in which Dabo/Streeter tried to develop the QBs this season did more harm than good. They consistently chose more reps for DJ over reps for Cade, and arguably DJ needed them. Mark Richt asked about that after ACC title game, it came out that Cade got very few reps with the 1s over the course of the season. Unfortunate that was the approach the coaches thought we needed. There were also plenty of extra in-game reps over the season given to DJ, think BC game, he’s still in there “trying to get some rythym going”. I think there was a fragile mental issue with DJ they were trying to protect and that was prob more bandaid approach than stitch and repair. This topic has been debated ad nauseam on this board and the reality is very few of us will ever know why the coaches managed these 2 QBs in this way. Fortunately that’s done with. Maybe our scheme gets better with a QB who is less limited.
The above ramblings are all speculative and if I’m lucky are maybe broke watch right twice a day. I still think our scheme needs improvement. Our coaches make the offense harder than it needs to be. Too much to think about. What kind of scheme requires a 5* QB two years to learn it or another 5* a year of s&c so he can run it 10-15x per game or stand in on the hots? Any chance WRs stopped coming here because they wanted something more dynamic than jump balls and screens?
Sorry, long rant. I’m procrastinating going back to work. Go Tigers and Happy New Year.
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110%er [6931]
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We need an innovative, creative OC. Streeter is not the guy.
Jan 2, 2023, 3:31 PM
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Nm
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All-American [564]
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Re: To those who claim the offensive scheme is bad
Jan 3, 2023, 8:56 AM
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It's all relative to the competition, in my opinion. That's the only way to fairly evaluate anything. And the bowl games are becoming harder and harder to evaluate due to opt outs and transfers. However, yards don't mean much if you're not scoring TDs. Cade couldn't have asked for 2 better opponents to start his career than UNC and UT. UNC is 116th against the pass and UT is 127th. UT is giving up 290/game. Trying to find a good comp, Wake is 115th. DJ went for 371 5-0.
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Orange Blooded [2418]
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Re: To those who claim the offensive scheme is bad
Jan 3, 2023, 9:17 AM
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I dont know that I think the scheme is completely bad.
I think there are some coaching issues..as I often see playing running into each other on plays.
OL play wasnt great against Tenn. They often missed a guy running through.
We also lack a dynamic playmaker at WR... not saying we dont have some good WRs... we do. AW and AR could turn into a guy like that but not yet.
If we can clean up execution a little bit, I think we might do pretty well... but can that happen? That remains to be seen.
I think the offense will look a lot cleaner after a spring with Cade, AntWilliams, Adam Randall being more with the 1s.
Will also be interesting to see how the defense turns out with defections/returnees.
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Legend [18790]
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The same people who brag about 400 yards against Tennessee
Jan 3, 2023, 9:21 AM
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Are the same ones who point to an 11-3 ACC Championship team when we were ranked 29th on defense and 49th on offense against mostly ACC opponents. It's kinda like you want it both ways because you are breaking your neck to defend the obvious decline of Clemson football.
Let's not forget that Tennessee didn't have their top offensive and defensive weapons, and the Chickens hung 60 points on them the week before.
The bottom line is we feasted on weak teams outside of FSU and got beat soundly by the decent ones.
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Orange Blooded [4009]
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It’s not the system, it’s the play calling
Jan 3, 2023, 9:46 AM
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Streeter has zero feel for the game.
Our OL is getting gashed on pass blocking all night and we make zero adjustments and on top of that we empty our backfield so there isn’t a RB to pick up the extra guys.
And we have success run blocking all night, yet we stick to the 55/45 pass run ######.
Not enough to be smart but in that job you’ve got to think and act quick.
That’s why they get paid the big bucks, not many capable of doing that. Nothing to feel bad about, but can’t expect to win at an elite level
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Orange Blooded [4784]
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Re: To those who claim the offensive scheme is bad
Jan 3, 2023, 9:48 AM
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Well if you admit we've only had a functional QB for two games, when he sat on the sideline for the rest of the season, I'd like to know who you think made the decision to go through most of the season with him on the bench?
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Orange Blooded [2253]
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If you look at what Tenn's opponents averaged against them..
Jan 3, 2023, 10:22 AM
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this season, you'll quickly realize it's not as impressive as just looking at the box score.
Opponents against Tenn averaged the following:
TOP: 34:45 (Clemson: 36ish minutes)
Plays: 76 (Clemson: 101, this looks good on paper)
Total Offense: 405.3 yards/game (Clemson 480ish, again looks good on paper but keep reading)
Now here is where it gets interesting:
Touchdowns allowed per game: 2.85 (Clemson scored 2)
Yards/Play Allowed: 5.3 (Clemson 4.7ish)
Passing Yards Allowed/Game: 290 (Clemson 320, keep reading)
Pass Attempts/Game: 41 (we had 56 total, 30 more passing yards on 15 more pass attempts, not good).
One of the biggest problems I have with Streeter is the complete shift in his playcalling when defenses play with a 2 high safety look. Tennessee did this the majority of the game. Why? Because they didn't think we could score consistently enough on long drives (think 12+ play drives) and guess what? They were right. They decided to go conservative between the 20s and allow the shortened field near the red zone to help their scheme. Streeter rarely utilizes the middle of the field between the 20s (it's almost non-existent in the red zone as well) and abandons the run WHEN IT IS WORKING as much as Chad Morris and Tony Elliott.
The Orange Bowl continued to show why I want and have wanted Streeter fired. While the offense was better (clearly) with Cade at QB, a lot of the same tendencies that pop up when drives stall remained:
-Not using the middle of the field (Allen and Jake should have feasted on the Tennessee secondary on slant routes over the middle in the red zone all night).
-Not running the ball more with the RBs (Shipley and Mafah has 24 COMBINED carries. When you have a true freshman QB making his first start, 54 pass attempts and 20 runs from the QB are not a receipe for success against a top 10 team). How many times have we heard him say post-game "We probably should have run the ball more"? More than should be acceptable.
-Waiting until half-time to make adjustments (if at all) and not doing so after each drive. Ex. Tennessee would run a zone blitz on 3rd and long in the red zone. After seeing that our OL was struggling to pickup the blitz, he CONTINUED to call long developing plays. STUPID. Not once did we see a slant route called where Cade could throw it in the DIRECTION of the blitz. Where were the protection adjustments? (ex. instead of running the same 4 receiver look with Allen lined up in the slot, why not bring him inside and chip the blitzer showing blitz pre-snap?)
https://utsports.com/sports/football/stats/2022
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All-In [27187]
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Re: If you look at what Tenn's opponents averaged against them..
Jan 3, 2023, 10:25 AM
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Even more egregious, IMO, was his statement that TN "disguised their blitzes".....that statement absolutely floored me. It was obvious where the pressure was coming from, time and time again. Yet, he couldn't make the adjustments necessary to beat the ILB blitz.
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Orange Blooded [2253]
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Re: If you look at what Tenn's opponents averaged against them..
Jan 3, 2023, 10:27 AM
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Completely agree. Streeter is making mistakes that honestly a first-time OC might make if they weren't prepared for the job, but he's been an OC before (I expect some of the mistakes from Wes on the defensive side of the ball, but not from Streeter).
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All-In [27187]
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Re: To those who claim the offensive scheme is bad
Jan 3, 2023, 10:23 AM
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3 trips to the red zone with nothing to show for it. No, the offense is not "OK".
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Commissioner [991]
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Dabo decided sometime around DWs run that
Jan 3, 2023, 11:14 AM
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he was going to keep the offense simple and allow the drastic talent advantage we had to wear down inferior opposition. It worked great when we had the decided advantage in talent. Now that we are declining and the opposition is improving...it doesnt work as well (except for instances in which it is still the case ie La Tech, NCST, Syracuse, etc.)
Please dont point to the recruiting rankings being an indication of equal talent level. Anyone who knows football can look at 2016 and see we had tremendous talent compared to this year, even with CK at qb.
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