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Freshman [-99]
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It’s really very simple. Clemson has no one to blame but Clemson.
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Mar 13, 2023, 11:42 AM
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We beat NC State three times because that’s a bad matchup for NC State. But they have a better résumé then we do.
Bottom line: Clemson lost to four teams in four games that were unacceptable. At the end of the season we had two quad four losses and two quad three losses. But those quad three teams drifted in and out of quad for all year. Those were borderline quad four losses at the end of the season. At different points they were quad four losses. I dare anyone to show me a team that has ever gotten into the tournament with that many unacceptable losses for a team that is supposedly a top three ACC team.
When it comes to the record, that is 100% a product of the schedule. We were nearly last in terms of strength of schedule out of conference. The entire schedule was very weak as well because the ACC has become watered down by expansion and this season was the worst season in ACC basketball history. Our record is not because we’re good team, but a reflection of the schedule.
Brad Brownell is the Tommy Bowden of Clemson basketball. You can’t beat NC State three times but lose to Loyola, South Carolina, Louisville, and Boston College. Lots of good teams have an upset, but good teams don’t have four upsets in one season. That many unacceptable losses shows the character of the team and the quality of the coaching. That’s the facts jack!
Tommy Bowden would beat a top-five Florida state, then the very next week and get blown off the field by a terrible wake forest. That’s exactly what Brad Brownell does. But actually he doesn’t beat teams as good as Florida State was in football. He simply does not. We have some good wins, but no great wins.
You can’t simply look at the fact that we beat NC State and Pittsburgh and say we should be in. That is such a grossly negligent and ignorant way of looking at the NCAA tournament. It doesn’t work that way. You have to look at the entire body of work. You have to look at the entire season. And when you do that, you see a team that simply isn’t very good and that is poorly coached. Good teams with good coaching don’t have five and 10 minute scoring droughts in almost every game.
Michael Jordan understood that when his jumpshot wasn’t working, he had to drive to the basket and score at the free-throw line. We’re top three in the country in free-throw shooting but rarely drive to the basket to get the other team into foul trouble and score points at the free-throw line. You’re not gonna get a lot of foul shooting opportunities when you’re always shooting long jumpers and three-pointers. Free-throw shooting is like special teams in football. It’s a big part of the game that poorly coach teams ignore.
So for a lot of reasons, this team is out of the tournament. I hate it for the players. I hate it for the fans. But this is not a really good team and it is a poorly coached team. We are a product of our coaching staff. I don’t blame the players at all. They’re doing their best. Although it does sound like from Brownell’s own words, the players on the court are not executing his game plans. He said he’s been fighting the team all season. That means he’s not in control of his team. That’s another huge strike against Brad Brownell.
If you want to keep getting the same results, then you maintain the status quo. If you want better for Clemson and Clemson basketball and our players there’s only one option. And that option is not keeping Brad Brownell.
Coaches don’t suddenly turn programs around after 13 years. And do not, repeat, do not give me the Frank Beamer nonsense. Virginia Tech was averaging seven and four seasons before Frank Beamer. In fact, the last three or four seasons of Bill Dooley were some of the best in Virginia Tech football history. Frank Beamer did not take over a terrible losing program. That is a myth. Actually, if the only argument you can muster is Frank Beamer, despite the fact that it is a myth, it shows you just how rare and exceptional such a turnaround is.
But even if it were true, which it’s not, that’s the only example people can ever think of. Why? Because it simply doesn’t happen. After 13 seasons you are what you are as a head coach and a program.
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All-In [31310]
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Re: It’s really very simple. Clemson has no one to blame but Clemson.
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Mar 13, 2023, 11:47 AM
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Good read and if I am comprehending it correctly agree 100 percent.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: It’s really very simple. Clemson has no one to blame but Clemson.
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Mar 13, 2023, 11:52 AM
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The only part that upsets me is the NC State thing. I'm not losing sleep over it though because if we were honestly the 4th team out then it's not as if we would've been in simply by having NC State be left out.
I normally don't expect the committee to factor head to head results all that much because there's simply too many teams involved to get deep into that. So it would've have bothered me if NC State was firmly in the tournament as like a 5th seed or something, but with them being one of the final 4 teams in you'd have to imagine that they were compared with other bubble teams. In that case it's hard for me to understand how it didn't become a conversation within the committee that 2 of the bubble teams played 3 times this season with 2 of those games occurring over the final 5 games of the season and 1 of the games literally being 3 days earlier, and the team you're leaving out won all 3 of those games with the closet one being 14 points. Not only that but we finished with the same overall record and we finished ahead of NC State in the same conference.
I'm also not sure what better resume really means here. All it means between Clemson and NC State is that NC State didn't lose to some of the worst teams on their schedule. NC State went 1-6 against Q1 teams and Clemson went 4-4. When it comes to comparing Clemson and NC State the committee is basically saying that not losing to really bad teams matters more than beating good teams and more than head to head results.
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All-TigerNet [13504]
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Re: It’s really very simple. Clemson has no one to blame but Clemson.
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Mar 13, 2023, 11:54 AM
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Our SOS seems to be something the committee keeps hanging their hat on as their justification, along with the bad losses.
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110%er [5072]
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Re: It’s really very simple. Clemson has no one to blame but Clemson.
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Mar 13, 2023, 11:59 AM
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Which is something I do understand, and why my only real compliant is against NC State. It would've been one thing if we only played NC State once, which is why I'm not complaining about how we beat Penn state or Pitt. How though you can compare 2 bubble teams to each other with the same exact record from the same conference, and choose the team that lost all 3 meetings between the teams by double digits(2 of them by 20+) who also finished behind the other team in the same conference is beyond me.
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All-TigerNet [13504]
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Re: It’s really very simple. Clemson has no one to blame but Clemson.
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Mar 13, 2023, 12:03 PM
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That point is hard to swallow and I agree with you.
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Letterman [274]
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110%er [6153]
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Well, they beat Duke, the ACC champ and a #5 seed …
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Mar 13, 2023, 10:25 PM
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… so there’s that.
They also went up to Pitt and won a game most didn’t see them winning.
The Penn State win turned out to be a quality win.
And yes, they beat #11 seed NC State three times by large margins.
Okay, that’s all I got. 🤷🏻♂️
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All-In [38121]
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Re: It’s really very simple. Clemson has no one to blame but Clemson.
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Mar 13, 2023, 12:01 PM
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Agreed... You have to beat all the bad teams, you have to beat most of the teams your favored to beat, and you have to win some of the games you're not supposed to win. We screwed the pooch against the bad teams, and it cost us dearly.
With that being said... Go Tigers!!! Let's win the NIT!!!
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Orange Blooded [3730]
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Makes the most sense from any TNet-sub-70-pulse read…
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Mar 13, 2023, 12:02 PM
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…I’ve seen.
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All-In [38121]
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Re: Makes the most sense from any TNet-sub-70-pulse read…
Mar 13, 2023, 12:04 PM
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"This is the way."
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Orange Blooded [3336]
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Re: It’s really very simple. Clemson has no one to blame but Clemson.
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Mar 13, 2023, 12:07 PM
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I wish I could TU this more than once.
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CU Guru [1761]
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Re: It’s really very simple. Clemson has no one to blame but Clemson.
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Mar 13, 2023, 12:42 PM
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So NC State was 1-6 in quad 1. How does that equate in the thought process. Now losses count and wins don’t matter. So they didn’t lose in quad 4 and they are in, but against tournament caliber teams they were 1-6.
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Trainer [38]
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Re: It’s really very simple. Clemson has no one to blame but Clemson.
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Mar 13, 2023, 12:47 PM
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Exactly, what does it matter who you lose to in a game where upsets happen frequently? Every year there are big upsets in the tourney and that's what people love about it. What should matter is who you beat and there is no way NC state should be in the tournament over us having lost to us head to head 3 times in non-competitive games, finished behind us in theconference.
I mean I get it, we should have beaten Louisville and the Coots but everybody has an off night here and there.
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Freshman [-99]
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You need to work on your reading comprehension skills.
Mar 13, 2023, 4:39 PM
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I Clearly stated upsets happen. But what does not happen is a good team losing four times at different points during the year to very bad teams. No at-large bid has ever been given to a team with a quad 4 loss. We had 2 quad four losses, and really at various times during the season South Carolina and Boston College were in quad four. They were borderline quad 3 teens. They were in an out quad 4 all season. We lost to four very bad teams. Show me a tournament team that’s ever done that. I’ll wait.
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CU Guru [1388]
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110%er [6781]
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Are we still talking about Basketball? I thought
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Mar 13, 2023, 12:45 PM
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it was Spring Practice season already.
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All-TigerNet [10213]
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What were you saying about NCSU??
Mar 13, 2023, 12:46 PM
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See photo
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Freshman [-99]
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Like I said. They have a better résumé.
Mar 13, 2023, 4:50 PM
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Only one number in that picture where Clemson was better than NC State. What that picture doesn’t show is that we had four losses to teams that are either quad four or spent time in quad 4 during the season and were borderline quad 4 teams. I bet NC State didn’t have a single quad 4 loss. At most maybe one. It’s not just about wins. Losses matter also. That picture proves my point and the only thing you can point to was cherry picking one statistic without looking at other statistics that are equally or more important.
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CU Guru [1761]
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Re: Like I said. They have a better résumé.
Mar 13, 2023, 11:02 PM
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I would think that a team with a 1-6 record has no business being in the tournament. Quad 1 should be tournament caliber teams and 1-6 does not equate to being a tournament team. If we don’t take their place so be it, but that is not a tournament resume.
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Orange Blooded [4596]
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Re: It’s really very simple. Clemson has no one to blame but Clemson.
Mar 13, 2023, 12:46 PM
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One thing about schedule. They are set in advance, and at least of that is the ACC schedule over which we have no control. I'm fairly sure CBB didn't say "Let's create a #335 SOS so we can cakewalk through the season."
Sure, we didn't schedule Kansas and Gonzaga and Kentucky. But this OOC schedule issue is not really anyone's fault. We scheduled several teams that have been very good recently. We scheduled SCAR, as always, and LOST to them so the fact that they were bad hurts more. We played in the ACC/Big10 challenge against whoever that turned out to be (Penn State). Loyola-Chicago was a Final Four team just a few years ago (we lost to them this year even though they fell into Quad 4). We played in a tournament and got who we got (3 games, and one ended up being Cal, who eked out a slight edge over Louisville to NOT be the worst P5 team). Richmond was expected to contend for the A10 title.
All teams schedule a few scrimmage-like games. Duke, for example also scheduled Bellermine and USC Upstate, just like we did.
Sometimes it can't be helped when the teams you schedule thinking you're going to get a good game end up being very bad teams.
The bottom line here is that SOS hurt, but it is probably not why we got left out. Losing the Louisville and Loyola-Chicago and SCAR is why we got left out--our SOS was terrible AND we lost to the teams that helped MAKE it terrible.
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Freshman [-99]
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Total strawman argument.
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Mar 13, 2023, 9:19 PM
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Loyola had a good season last year. They were terrible this year. We easily should’ve won that game. Boston College is bad. South Carolina is bad. Louisville is terrible. Those are games that a team having a “historic “season should win.
Your argument actually points out how bad we really were. We had a weak schedule. It doesn’t matter when the schedule was created. The schedule was easy and we should’ve won more games.
You think you’re helping but you’re not you’re making my argument stronger!
Who cares when the schedule was made. The reality is when that schedule was made, these teams were expected to be better. Instead, they were easier. We had one of the easiest schedules in the country. That means we should’ve won more games.
Our record this year was not because we had a good team, but because we had a pathetically weak schedule.
The ACC was the number six conference this year. Think about that. The ACC was historically weak this year.
The truth is we should’ve won the regular season title because we should jave taken out Boston College and Louisville. We would’ve won the regular season conference title had we simply beat the two worst conference teams.
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MVP [514]
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Yep! Spot on!***
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Mar 13, 2023, 12:48 PM
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All-TigerNet [10905]
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You make some good points, but NC State only has a better resume
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Mar 13, 2023, 9:44 PM
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than us if you put more weight on our two quad 4 losses than you put on our four quad one wins! We had four quad one wins...NC State had one! We had a 5-3 record against the ACC teams that made the tourney, NC State was 2-6...2-9 vs the ACC tourney teams plus Clemson. We finished 3rd in the ACC...they finished 6th!
It is obvious that the selection committee thinks two or three bad losses by a team is much more important than the quality wins!
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110%er [5972]
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Don’t we make fun of the coots for losing to the Citadel
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Mar 13, 2023, 10:16 PM
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in football? We did that this year in basketball x 4
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