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110%er [7179]
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Symbiotic Relationship. Players/University!
Jan 7, 2022, 12:53 PM
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Not going to argue the semantics of the NIL as it relates to the player being able to make a profit.
My question is: is it not a symbiotic relationship? Or is it a situation where the player has most of the power? It seems like the latter is true!
The school:
*provides the platform - SCHOLARSHIP to school. TV games for school(so they can be seen).
*provides the team logo/jersey/name recognition.
*place to showcase a independent contractors(the players) skills.
*training equipment and trainers.
The player:
*provides excitement with their play which frequently leads to people spending money on school gear.
*a name to associate with the schools jersey
A stylist/barber and strippers all pay the owner of those establishments: "a booth fee or a tip-out fee(strippers ....don't ask me how I know that....Google, hehe).
The way it works is: any of those three jobs/careers are independent contractors who can work anywhere much like players can play anywhere. The owner of the hair salon, barbershop or strip club charges these independent contractors that fee because: "it's their insurance, their electricity, their location, their name brand, their marketing $, their license to operate, etc. All of that gives the "independent contractor" a platform to operate and earn a living! But, not until they have paid up!
One might think: "if the barber, stylist and stripper" aren't in these places "people won't go there"! Wrong! That player, that barber and that stripper might not be in there - but somebody will. How good they are might be different. One assumes these places have a core foundation at the least that it can always fall back on. As it relates to CFB; I think the way players are cashing in, since they are using that logo the school provided, platform, etc. the school provided - "one day you may see some type of percentage being asked of them"!
Not today - it's too "let's lookout for the player only" right now!
When a school can pump, time, money into a players development and then never see the return on investment - will that just keep being allowed to stand? Take a Frank Ladson or a Mikey Dukes - both on campus multiple years and building their minds and bodies and getting a good academic foundation for the next school. Clemson provided that scholarship and opportunity with the hopes of seeing it paid back on the field. Again, no issue with the whole deal.
My question is around - how long do you think it goes on like it is now?
Where basically the school who has despite the claims: "provided that independent contractor" a bunch.
I see it changing and believe it should. Just based off other examples. The players could all "stop playing"! But, what if all the schools said, "no play without giving me a %"? Because your making your money in part using "my brand"!
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All-In [30835]
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bro i tried. but that is too much reading for a Friday
Jan 7, 2022, 12:58 PM
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so my final answer will be
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110%er [7179]
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LOL! Independent Contractors Pay
Jan 7, 2022, 5:16 PM
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Independent contractors pay a fee to operate in a few examples I gave.
Will they eventually pay in the CFB world?
That's the gist GeeVille.
I think they should - to the players basically selling their services to the boosters/NIL providers anyway!
Caleb Williams for example, supposedly asking for a 7-figure deal to "go to college" where he gets both paid and "a chance to build his brand" all the while doing so using the platform the school(s) provide by fielding a football team.
And, does he get: free personal training? Free nutrition? Meals? etc?
Seems too "one way"! Especially given the fact a player can just leave after the school has made an investment in them! < - - - - - - don't miss this point.
Since it's not the school itself that's paying the NIL - the school can only "lose" in the scenario if the player leaves for more "dough"!
The school that provided the top 10 portal players currently "just loses"! They provided a team, teammates, a platform to showcase talent, nutrition, training, etc. and then "gets dumped"!
My question was how long before schools make a move to protect themselves?
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110%er [7179]
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Re: LOL! Independent Contractors Pay
Jan 7, 2022, 5:30 PM
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These IC's yes helped the school generate a ton of TV Revenue. Admission at the game and concessions and parking. But, schools also have to adhere to Title IX and pay for non-revenue sports.
CFB and CBB make enough money to cover for the travel and expenses for most of the schools other sports "sometimes"! This is the thing most people don't get when it comes to "the big bad bully school" who takes advantage of the poor athlete" supposedly!
A. a scholarship and an opportunity to go to college is nothing to sneeze at. NFL careers average 3 years and the contracts aren't guaranteed. Getting in the NBA is even harder than getting in the NFL. So, why would that education that is being provided not be a part of conversations? Kids still need that education!
I am despite all that - PRO NIL - believe it or not!
I just think; people need to understand the whole picture a bit better! Some of what I am hearing is: "it won't just be the super-star player" who is getting money. Which means, depth at the school that kid would have gone to will be affected. If a "IC" is at a school and has a good year; then wants to transfer out because "someone else is offering more money" I have an issue with that part. Remember - the school isn't paying. The school is providing a scholarship, training, nutrition,room/board, etc to revenue sport IC's and non-revenue sport athletes.
So a IC can build their brand using schools platform - then get left at the alter the next season potentially! After providing a lot to that player including a "STAGE"!
Seems wrong! Is all I am saying! I know we hate Over-regulation: "but this seems to be a clear case of at least some regulation being needed"! Some; not too much. Not over bearing. But, something that says, "if I have taken you from a non-nil athlete to where you are now a coveted entity; I get some kickback"! On the grounds, I provided the "STAGE" for you!
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All-Conference [415]
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In this ear coaches and now players have power....
Jan 7, 2022, 1:25 PM
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... Universities are really just getting out entertainment value. At overwhelming majority of places athletic depts barely break even. Scholarship players, esp. in non-revenue sports, benefit, many coaches makes huge money (there are a lot more college level jobs than pro jobs), and students and alumni get entertainment. Schools get publicity and branding (for successful ones at least). So I say benefits are a bit lopsided away from universities. Unless funds roll in that directly benefit the university, such as reduced tuition, building of buildings, funding endowed professorships, I would say it is a bit unbalanced. Go Tigers.
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All-Conference [415]
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*in this era....
Jan 7, 2022, 1:31 PM
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To add, I believe players deserve a right to make money. But so should universities for benefits of their students and mission of education.
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110%er [8538]
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Re: Symbiotic Relationship. Players/University!
Jan 7, 2022, 1:49 PM
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Too long to read all the post but most college athletes will earn nothing or very little through NIL. NIL would not exist without colleges and college athletics would not exist without students, many who receive scholarships. NIL has nothing to do with scholarships and most certainly will not change the way athletes can get an education. The law now allows NIL and that is a good thing for the minority of players who will earn some money. NIL will not be the end of college athletics, although it might create some teams that that have advantages.
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110%er [7179]
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Re: Symbiotic Relationship. Players/University!
Jan 7, 2022, 5:06 PM
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Too long to read all the post but most college athletes will earn nothing or very little through NIL. NIL would not exist without colleges and college athletics would not exist without students, many who receive scholarships. NIL has nothing to do with scholarships and most certainly will not change the way athletes can get an education. The law now allows NIL and that is a good thing for the minority of players who will earn some money. NIL will not be the end of college athletics, although it might create some teams that that have advantages.
I get everything you are saying: I think you are of the understanding that only a Caleb Williams, Stingley, DJU, Stroud, etc. will have NIL deals. Do you know about the fund U of Texas has for their OL?
Kids coming out of H.S. who are getting NIL money to come there - "is not the most players won't be getting paid poor athlete story"! That player has not done a thing; but sign with one particular school where they are likely to sit on the very deep bench! They are basically getting paid to "perhaps help on the field" but mostly - to not be at another school!
Paying players to "not be at the competition is a strategy as well"!
Never suggested NIL has anything to do with scholarships! What I am saying is; "the I.C. is using the school and scholarship" to make money. Most situations if "I"(the school) provide you with the outlet to showcase your talent - "I get some kickback since you are making money using the outlet "the school" provides"!
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All-In [44050]
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I'm almost to the point of wanting to see the players
Jan 7, 2022, 1:50 PM
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simply be employees of the school, rather than students.
Players might wear Clemson on their jerseys, but they aren't students.
The team can still assemble the athletes they feel will best help their teams. Alumni can still cheer for their teams. Players can further their sports skills and prepare for the next level. And schools can regain some of the integrity they have lost.
Guys who want to prioritize their education can still apply to Clemson, and if accepted by meeting the same standards all other students must meet, can still try out for the football team.
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All-Conference [415]
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As first rule, must meet same std as other students...
Jan 7, 2022, 8:34 PM
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I don't feel like cheering too much for a player that gets in with credentials way less than what Clemson would accept as a minimum from a non-athlete and then make a million or two in NIL and promptly opt out when the combine starts to get near... Why do we lend our Clemson name for such questionable business? Again, I would be for this purely commercial arrangement if all the money did not get taken up by coaches, scholarships/meals/nutrition/media/non_revenue_scholarships and upkeep of athletic facilities that normal students can't even step into. I would be fine if say 50% of revenue went to general fund to reduce tuition, or to build world class labs, student facilities etc.
Clemson name has to earn something for avg. Clemson student's benefit. Or is entertainment enough? (I personally put high value on entertainment but I am sorry to see that Clemson spirit slipping, relation to a student-athlete is different than a relation to a football playing employee who has endless side gigs, NILs and what not.
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110%er [7179]
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Re: As first rule, must meet same std as other students...
Jan 7, 2022, 8:50 PM
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Tiger 1955 - are you saying same rule as other students just for NIL players? Or all players?
I get what you are getting at. But, boosters at say, Texas A & M who want to see their team win a championship in their lifetime that have the money are driving the bus. All players aren't getting the same amount. And, some players in my opinion are being lured from schools by $$$$$$$$$$$ not so much in order to go play; but in order to weaken a primary threat to their dominance "weaker"!
And, "now it's all legal"! if "the price is right"! Kids have always "used college football to get money"! To be clear - "they always have"!
The best players always wanted to show what they could do so they could go pro. Now, do they even have to make it to the NFL? For some of these kids if they got their hands on say, 250K - of their own money they might not grind as hard for the NFL. It would be like so many other scenarios: "athletes who always had to grind hard, get soft when they start tasting success"! From hard floors and 2nd hand sheets to plush beds and silk sheets"!
The age of "bare minimum" is already here.
On my job some of the people who come in that could work more - thus earn more - cut themselves off at the bare minimum and whine the entire time they have to do that! So, yeah, a kid who was good but not NFL good might not grind harder if some booster is hooking them up with for them might be a ( and literally could be ) a life changing amount of money.
Ultimately - I actually don't think it's good for the player! But, I do agree they should get money in college football and basketball.
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110%er [7179]
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Question #1
Jan 7, 2022, 8:57 PM
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If schools said, "if you make money off your name, image and likeness and you made that name for yourself wearing my name, colors, jersey, playing in my stadium, training in my training room, weight room, etc. I want a percentage"?
What's the worst that could happen?
They wouldn't go to that school right? No big deal; unless it became standard among universities!
If the players want to protest then fine; keep the NIL until you hit the NFL. Or start your own team and you pay: insurance, electricity, trainers, coaches, facilities, etc. and build a brand that gets millions of people a year watching you play. Don't be crazy HRT somebody might say;; Hmmmm! Call me crazy if you want; but the majority of schools can't hang with this!
Everybody don't have oil money to buy off the best players!
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All-In [44050]
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My preference would be for all college athletes to meet the same
Jan 7, 2022, 10:51 PM
[ in reply to As first rule, must meet same std as other students... ] |
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admission requirements as regular students, but I have accepted the fact that that’s a pipe dream at this point so my acceptable alternative is to make stat players employees who are not students.
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All-Conference [415]
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Re: My preference would be for all college athletes to meet the same
Jan 8, 2022, 10:21 AM
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If you are willing to accept just an employee/employer relationship, with seemingly ability to go to next highest bidder even in middle of one season - at least player is gone for you even if he can't yet play for other team till next season - what does Clemson University get out of this? I am happy for the coaches who are employees and make market/boat_loads of money, bless them, and I would be OK if we have not students at all and just a employee/professional team making market rates, but I would want 50% of revenue to go to general funds of university, and we would drop all non-revenue sports.
Also, in name of "rights for athletes" I expect rules will be relaxed so that players can enter the transfer portal in middle of a season *AND* be allowed to join his new team right away. In the limit, coming out of half time a player may ask his team-mate "Hey, where is Johnny?" The answer: "Look over at the other sideline, he transfer portaled at half time." !!
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Legend [17778]
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TL; DR - Please provide Powerpoint presentation
Jan 7, 2022, 2:00 PM
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Google Slides fine as well.
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Standout [306]
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Re: Symbiotic Relationship. Players/University!
Jan 7, 2022, 4:29 PM
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Imagine if you have someone talented enough to strip and cut hair. You'd already have the barber pole and connections/suppliers for the lotions, oils, barber supplies etc... Think of all the overhead you would save. Brilliant!
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Legend [17612]
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I think I understand your premise ...
Jan 7, 2022, 10:46 PM
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So what are your recommendations in terms of good barbers and strippers in your locale?
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110%er [7179]
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Re: I think I understand your premise ...
Jan 8, 2022, 2:05 PM
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So what are your recommendations in terms of good barbers and strippers in your locale?
The Gentlemens Club off of Tyvola!
Platinum Cuts of of Saluda!
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