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All-In [26968]
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Over 3,000 more innocent children were murdered on Friday.
Dec 17, 2012, 1:10 PM
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Where's the mourning, the outrage, the call to action?
Alas, it seems only children who have been born are afforded these things.
Has the President ever shed a tear for the slaughter of these innocents?
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Oculus Spirit [78876]
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I murdered several million knuckle children, ifuknowwatimean***
Dec 17, 2012, 1:11 PM
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110%er [7980]
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there were 3000 abortions on Friday?***
Dec 17, 2012, 1:11 PM
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All-In [26968]
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If you use per-day averages...it's an approximation.***
Dec 17, 2012, 1:12 PM
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110%er [7980]
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O_o
Dec 17, 2012, 1:14 PM
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That's even more tragic then I had thought.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [26968]
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Google it like I did...I was conservative...
Dec 17, 2012, 1:42 PM
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Every place I looked had it from the low 3,000s up to 4,000.
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Rock Defender [53]
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All-In [26968]
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Yes, according to that, it's about 3,500 per day.***
Dec 17, 2012, 1:53 PM
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Rock Defender [53]
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Does that include all abortions, natural and induced?
Dec 17, 2012, 2:16 PM
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Lots of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortions.
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All-In [26968]
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The language in the article ("undergo") sounds like induced.***
Dec 17, 2012, 2:18 PM
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CU Medallion [56087]
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That means every year in America nearly one in every
Dec 17, 2012, 2:09 PM
[ in reply to there were 3000 abortions on Friday?*** ] |
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five women of child-bearing age have an abortion. I'm no mathemagician, but based on those figures it seems to me the odds of a woman getting through her fertile years without 86ing at least one critter is highly improbable.
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CU Medallion [56087]
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Re: Over 3,000 more innocent children were murdered on Friday.
Dec 17, 2012, 1:11 PM
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All-In [30491]
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Those 3000 weigh heavily on your
Dec 17, 2012, 1:46 PM
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heart, huh?
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CU Medallion [56087]
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Nope!***
Dec 17, 2012, 1:53 PM
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All-In [30491]
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You
Dec 17, 2012, 1:56 PM
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heartless bassard, you. 
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110%er [9107]
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It's been going on so long, I think people are numb to it.
Dec 17, 2012, 1:12 PM
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I agree that it's an awful thing.
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All-In [26968]
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Me included. God help us.***
Dec 17, 2012, 1:16 PM
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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110%er [9107]
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Hopefully never.
Dec 17, 2012, 1:22 PM
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Unless they start happening every day.
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Orange Blooded [2213]
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..but, but, but...Obummer luvs all the "chullins"....
Dec 17, 2012, 1:16 PM
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..doesn't he???
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Heisman Winner [105590]
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Why do you hate women?***
Dec 17, 2012, 1:16 PM
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Orange Blooded [2213]
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Greenr: I don't, do you?***
Dec 17, 2012, 6:26 PM
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CU Medallion [60229]
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maybe legalizing abortions until a kid is 21
Dec 17, 2012, 1:29 PM
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is one of the proposed "changes" Obama has in mind.
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Oculus Spirit [93668]
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I had a couple of sons I want to abort when they were 17!
Dec 17, 2012, 1:51 PM
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I wish they had that law back then.
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All-In [30491]
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Too bad. It's in the Constitution. You can't change what's
Dec 17, 2012, 1:29 PM
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in there.
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All-In [30491]
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It's a woman's right.
Dec 17, 2012, 1:30 PM
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How dare you!!!
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Heisman Winner [137949]
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So if the mothers can't afford to care for the children once
Dec 17, 2012, 1:29 PM
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they're born, what then? I never get any logical answer for what the stark reality of forcing those 3,000 children to be born: a very large percentage of those 3,000 end up on government assistance. Are you ok with paying more taxes to feed them? Or is it ok to let them starve once they're born, with the important thing being that THEY WERE BORN?
Also, and I've pointed this out before: it's completely disingenuous to assign the same amount of value to a 6-, or 10-week old fetus, as you do an actual out-of-the-womb human. Don't think so? When is the last time you went to a funeral for a miscarried baby? Why is that? When a woman miscarries, it's a passing thought for most of us--"oh, that sucks.", and then we've forgotten about it by the time we're looking at the lunch menu.
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All-In [30491]
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It would be too inconvenient to place a value on the
Dec 17, 2012, 1:33 PM
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miscarried baby. If we did, that might make many in the pro-abortion camp start to feel a little uncomfortable.
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Heisman Winner [137949]
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Zett, c'mon.
Dec 17, 2012, 1:36 PM
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Are you really saying a miscarried 10 week old fetus is as tragic as losing a 1 year old child? Go ahead, assign value. Ask everybody to do it. I doubt you're going to make any camp more comfortable or uncomfortable than they already are.
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All-In [30491]
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Maybe I need to rethink this one. I think most miscarraiges
Dec 17, 2012, 1:44 PM
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are nature's way of saying the mother's body is not quite ready to carry a baby full term. My sister had one and a couple years later, she had a healthy baby girl.
So, I guess being a natural happening, we just don't view it as quite as tragic. Does that make sense?
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110%er [7980]
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Heisman Winner [137949]
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I understand that, and yes, I know quite a few couples that
Dec 17, 2012, 1:35 PM
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it has happened to. Does anybody view it as being in the same ballpark of "tragic" as losing a 6 year old?
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All-In [26968]
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No, I don't think many people do...
Dec 17, 2012, 1:37 PM
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Which is why it has continued unchecked. If I really viewed them in the same ballpark, I'd probably be doing more than making a post in the Lounge about it. I have failed on this one. We all have.
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Rock Defender [53]
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I haven't failed at that.
Dec 17, 2012, 7:01 PM
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That's kinda like saying you failed calculus but never took it
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110%er [7980]
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I would venture to say no
Dec 17, 2012, 1:38 PM
[ in reply to I understand that, and yes, I know quite a few couples that ] |
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But I don't see how that's relevant. To me the real tragedy is that the baby hasn't had an opportunity to have a life. Its a difficult question but at some point the fetus is a person. Is conception too soon? maybe, but birth is definitely too late. Its also impossible to limit abortion by reason but its disturbing to see the percentage of people that have abortions because they just don't want a child right now, or it would mess up their plans.
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All-In [28802]
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I think most pro-lifers...
Dec 17, 2012, 1:38 PM
[ in reply to So if the mothers can't afford to care for the children once ] |
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would be ok with assuming the burden of caring for indigent children rather than killing them. That's probably one reason why Christians have opened and supported crisis pregnancy centers meant to care for women in the situation you've described, rather than focusing on preventing births as organizations like Planned Parenthood do. It certainly isn't ok to just "let the child starve," and that may be another reason why Christians have opened up orphanages and other charity services for children. At any rate, I think the charge that pro-lifers only care about the lives of children until they're born is false.
I do agree that we think of unborn and born children a little differently (couples who have experienced a miscarriage don't seem to take it so easily), but couldn't there be reasons other than the moral status of the fetus? We mourn all kinds of different deaths differently, depending on whether it was expected, on the age of person, or on how well we knew them. In the case of the 6-10 week old fetus, of course, we didn't know them at all.
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CU Medallion [60229]
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I know several couples who have traveled to Russia or China
Dec 17, 2012, 1:48 PM
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and waited for years for the chance to adopt a baby. These were good, church-going people, not borderline irresponsible folks.
I don't think there's a shortage of willing adoptive parents out there.
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Hall of Famer [23693]
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No. Probably a quarter of the kids in our church are...
Dec 17, 2012, 2:22 PM
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adopted, both foreign and domestically. Those who adopted from foreign countries would have done it domestically had it been a bit cheaper or easier. Some of the families who have adopted kids have adopted both foreign and domestically. The reasons the families have adopted vary widely, they like kids, some have been unable to conceive naturally, they just like kids and wanted to be true to their abortion stance, etc.
This is a 500-600 member congregation.
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Heisman Winner [137949]
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You certainly can't broadbrush pro-lifers,
Dec 17, 2012, 1:51 PM
[ in reply to I think most pro-lifers... ] |
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but if you look at the Venn diagram of pro-lifers and fiscal conservatives who want to eliminate welfare and government assistance, you'll find a HUGE overlap (obviously, I have no proof or links to back this up, but conservative Christianity and right-wing fiscal conservatism have been holding hands and skipping for decades now). The two concepts just don't seem to jive.
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All-In [28802]
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I agree, somewhat...
Dec 17, 2012, 1:58 PM
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but I think if you asked most of those folks, they wouldn't want to do away with all social programs. I know that I'd like the government to be smaller, but I think we should have a safety net for the poorest and for the most helpless. I agree that being completely against any social altruism, whether state-based or civil society- based, isn't particularly consonant with Christianity, but you have to remember that civil society exists, and it was far more able and willing to care for the indigent in the past. So the argument is that, when people become more reliant on the state for social services, civil society whithers away and the demand for state-based social services increases. Government expansion into the social collapses the the mediating civil institutions that so imperfectly handled many of our problems, to the point where it appears that all there is is individual and state, and thus every problem that presents itself seems to call for more government intervention. This is basically the argument Robert Nisbet made in The Quest for Community, and I think it's the best argument for why the fusion of libertarianism and conservatism makes sense. But if the liberarian argument is radicalized to delegitimate all social uses of government, then you're talking about something not very conservative or Christian.
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All-In [40934]
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All-In [28802]
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it's almost like we're on the road to legalizing killing
Dec 17, 2012, 1:31 PM
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12. In fact, while the climate of widespread moral uncertainty can in some way be explained by the multiplicity and gravity of today's social problems, and these can sometimes mitigate the subjective responsibility of individuals, it is no less true that we are confronted by an even larger reality, which can be described as a veritable structure of sin. This reality is characterized by the emergence of a culture which denies solidarity and in many cases takes the form of a veritable 'culture of death.' This culture is actively fostered by powerful cultural, economic and political currents which encourage an idea of society excessively concerned with efficiency. Looking at the situation from this point of view, it is possible to speak in a certain sense of a war of the powerful against the weak: a life which would require greater acceptance, love and care is considered useless, or held to be an intolerable burden, and is therefore rejected in one way or another. A person who, because of illness, handicap or, more simply, just by existing, compromises the well-being or life-style of those who are more favoured tends to be looked upon as an enemy to be resisted or eliminated. In this way a kind of 'conspiracy against life' is unleashed. This conspiracy involves not only individuals in their personal, family or group relationships, but goes far beyond, to the point of damaging and distorting, at the international level, relations between peoples and States.
~ Pope John Paul II, from Evangelium Vitae.
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Orange Blooded [2281]
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Re: Over 3,000 more innocent children were murdered on Friday.
Dec 17, 2012, 8:09 PM
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How many LIVING children you reckon died from starvation? Natural disaster? War? Disease? Infection? Accidents? Lack of simple medical care? Sorry if the deaths of living, breathing human beings bother me more than the deaths of the unborn, many of whom were destined to be in that first group early in their short lives.
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All-In [40934]
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Kill em all!
Dec 17, 2012, 8:24 PM
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thousands dies last week of starvation and natural disasters here in the good ole usa
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