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All-In [26968]
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Oculus Spirit [78892]
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the detractors will say
Jun 21, 2019, 10:33 AM
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why did he allow the strike to start in the first place?
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All-In [26968]
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Most of the time it doesn't matter how the sausage
Jun 21, 2019, 10:38 AM
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is made, as long as it turns out OK. These are really complicated issues, and the decisions are extraordinarily difficult. To expect total resolve from start to finish in the decision making is excessive.
Personally, I like a leader who is willing to change his mind, as long as he or she changes based on getting more information, or the circumstances changing.
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Oculus Spirit [78892]
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I think it does matter how the sausage is made
Jun 21, 2019, 10:42 AM
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I would come up with I thought was a great idea to my previous boss. His response was always "why didn't you come up with this idea sooner?"
Not sure what my analogy proves other that he was a peckerhead
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Heisman Winner [138011]
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Not trying to be a detractor here, but wouldn't the POTUS
Jun 21, 2019, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to the detractors will say ] |
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have to be the person who orders a strike on a foreign nation? Does this amount to "I called a strike, and then I called it off at the last minute because I'm so wise, yay me?" If Pompeo or Bolton were allowed to order strikes on Iran, it would have happened years ago.
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All-In [49062]
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I would imagine that most options for something
Jun 21, 2019, 12:14 PM
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like this that take some preparation would be spun up and ready to go as soon as they became a real option. He probably just chose another option but called it calling off the dogs at the last minute because that's what happens in the movies when something dramatic happens and the navy has gotten a carrier or guided missile destroyer ready to go.
The President calls and tells them to stand down and they all look relieved except for the one evil guy who wants war and starts hatching his plan to take over the boat.
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All-In [49062]
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In this case the one evil guy is probably John Bolton
Jun 21, 2019, 12:16 PM
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and sometime a few weeks before the election, Trump will announce he had to kill him with his bare hands on Air Force one to keep him from launching the nukes.
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Heisman Winner [138011]
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Would his tiny hands even wrap around Bolton's throat?
Jun 21, 2019, 2:29 PM
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Could he even find Bolton's throat through the mustache?
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Oculus Spirit [93703]
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Yep, it looks calculated and deliberate.
Jun 21, 2019, 10:38 AM
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Last night it occurred to me that the payment for the drone would come in the form of political capital and not destruction of Iranian assets. The EU is now prone to join the US in withdrawing from the Iranian deal. This makes Iran look bad and the US look good.
If Iran takes it as a sign of weakness, fear or anything but a reluctance from war they are mistaken. This is more about economics than bombs and boots.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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ha, didnt see this but just said the same thing***
Jun 21, 2019, 10:43 AM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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i swear, media/libs still dont get Trump
Jun 21, 2019, 10:42 AM
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he is not a war guy. He is a, Power thru strength guy. Or he likes to project power to avoid conflict.
This whole thing is a ruse to show Iran, we will crush you. I guarentee you this was a calculated leak by the admin.
Meanwhile, I'm sure the media hyperventilate I'm sure.
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All-In [26968]
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I don't know about media or libs...
Jun 21, 2019, 10:44 AM
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I would like to think we can all agree that fewer people dying is good. If someone wants to get upset about that, I guess that's one perspective to have.
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Oculus Spirit [93703]
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I suspected the political capital would be more satisfying..
Jun 21, 2019, 10:48 AM
[ in reply to i swear, media/libs still dont get Trump ] |
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than busting a few heads. I doubt he'll gain or lose much support here but the EU may be more apt to exit the Iranian deal and join in escorting tankers through the straight.
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All-In [47799]
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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That is the 865 Billion dollar question.***
Jun 21, 2019, 11:22 AM
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Guys, please don't buy that. This is consistent with what I
Jun 21, 2019, 11:09 AM
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said yesterday. Trump is looking to posture. 100%.
https://www.tigernet.com/forum/message/Trump-doesnt-want-war-He-thinks-he-can-scare-Iran-25582346#25582346
Trump is trying to save face and find some leverage at this point. His sloppy rhetoric fell into a trap. Now Iran, China and Russia have a huge angle to take advantage. Just like what they did to Obama/Kerry/Hillary in Syria.
Iran knows a war would be politically disastrous for Trump. Iran knows Saudi Arabia is nervous. (vulnerable desalination plants) Iran knows that the best way to get sanctions relief is to be aggressive now. Trump will bend over backwards to avoid war. We may have made Iran desperate enough to decide to provoke us now, instead of the other way around.
I think Bolton and Pompeo (who want war with Iran) anticipated this and Trump was easily manipulated into this position of a rock and a hard place that could very easily lead to War. Trump allowed this to happen, but he does not want war. Think about how he changed his tune so much over the last 48 hours.
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All-In [26968]
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So, do you disagree that it is a good thing
Jun 21, 2019, 11:10 AM
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The strike was called off?
Would you rather us have done it?
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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I can't disagree with something that never happened.
Jun 21, 2019, 11:14 AM
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Obviously, I am glad we didn't strike them... but that was never going to happen. Not at this point.
The story that he called it off after hearing about casualties is very obviously a lie. Saving face is 100% of the story here.
This is about reducing political damage in looking weak, after his strategy with Iran had turned on its head.
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All-In [26968]
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I'm reminded suddenly of a story in the Bible...
Jun 21, 2019, 11:17 AM
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Jesus heals a blind man, and the religious people who didn't like Jesus so much ask the (formerly) blind man later, (I'm very casually paraphrasing) "That guy who healed you, you know anything about him? We heard he's a sinner and has done some shady stuff."
The (formerly) blind man's response was "I don't know about all that. All I know is that yesterday I was blind, and today I can see."
Circling back around, I don't know about all that with motive, and political gamesmanship, and international intrigue. I'm just glad more people are living today because of this decision.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Well I am more interested in what's happening than I
Jun 21, 2019, 11:21 AM
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am being helplessly happy every time we don't decide to kill people.... for political reasons.
See... we are still the country that would. And we still do. And we still will. And a lot of that has to do with American people not exercising the vigilance to know what is really happening.
I prefer a vigilant populace over one that just feels good whenever we don't bomb people.
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Heisman Winner [138011]
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Politics.
Jun 21, 2019, 11:23 AM
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He does (sorta) when politics says it's good. He doesn't when it says it's bad.
Bolton wants war always, regardless of politics. Politics is just an obstacle course for him to get to war. Pompeo is sort of in between the two in that regard.
Trump is not as hawkish as Hillary. Hillary benefits personally from war more than Trump.
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Oculus Spirit [93703]
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Hillary is a politician.***
Jun 21, 2019, 12:12 PM
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Yes, and she was for the war in Iraq for before she was against it.
Jun 21, 2019, 12:15 PM
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Politics.
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CU Medallion [73569]
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Heisman Winner [138011]
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I don't know if he is or not, that's why I'm asking. He
Jun 21, 2019, 11:51 AM
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hasn't had the ability to promote (or start himself) war until the past 2 years. He saber-rattles on Twitter. He's an isolationist. He's a narcissist. He hired Pompeo and Bolton. I'm just asking how people are so sure he DOESN'T want war. I don't think there's enough of a track record to know either way at this point.
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Hall of Famer [21614]
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Generally having a track record means you have wars.
Jun 21, 2019, 11:56 AM
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Trump didn't escalate our presence in Syria as much as the deep state wanted. Trump could have put us in a war with Iran after these latest shenanigans... but he didn't. Trump could have let Bolton/Pompeo take us to war with Venezuela, but he didn't.
He's far more peaceful towards North Korea than any president... ever.
His rhetoric about Afghanistan seems to be pulling out. He's just being pushed in the other direction.
Now part of that may be that each example would have involved an incredibly stupid decision to go to war, but he obviously has people pushing him in that direction. So he has a track record of not being a war-hawk because of that... IMO. I think he is (like another poster said on this forum) obsessed with good cop bad cop. He thinks he can bully everyone.
The biggest mystery to me is why he has Pompeo and Bolton in his cabinet. I am lost on that one. I have yet to figure out how it makes sense.
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Standout [345]
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Re: I don't know if he is or not, that's why I'm asking. He
Jun 21, 2019, 12:00 PM
[ in reply to I don't know if he is or not, that's why I'm asking. He ] |
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Exactly, he brought on some of the biggest proponents of war and has threatened countries in speeches, on twitter and in interviews. That certainly doesn’t mean he is 100 percent going to start a war but it doesn’t look like he trying to avoid digging a deeper hole then he already has either.
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Oculus Spirit [93703]
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Oculus Spirit [93703]
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Because he has been consistently critical of war.
Jun 21, 2019, 12:09 PM
[ in reply to How is anybody so confident that Trump doesn't want war, ] |
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He made some promises, SCOTUS nominations, bring back manufacturing companies and jobs, stopping illegal immigration, working toward a good economy including cutting taxes and regulations. So far he's done well so far. I am disappointed that dems and the courts resist his efforts to stop illegal immigration but considering he's been through four investigations and dems have confoudned him every step of the way I give him an extension.
My only reluctance to say this is that there's an outside chance he hasn't stopped illegals because he wants it as a political tool for the coming election. I doubt it but he is a ruthless man, imo.
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