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All-TigerNet [11963]
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the silence about the Ferguson, Mo police/protestors
Aug 13, 2014, 10:23 PM
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clash is deafening in here.
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CU Medallion [66100]
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Officer overreated, made a terrible decision
Aug 13, 2014, 10:26 PM
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should be fired and charged
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All-In [25834]
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Re: Officer overreated, made a terrible decision
Aug 14, 2014, 12:35 AM
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What is your source, since no details of the investigation have been released and it is still on going. Can you supply a link to the investigation release or can you name your inside source? I don't know what actually happened, so I think I will wait until the results of the investigation are completed and those with the facts make a decision. Then I will offer my opinion. With the attention this has received, you can bet it will be thoroughly investigated by the FBI and every i and t will be crossed and dotted.
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Heisman Winner [111736]
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Re: Officer overreated, made a terrible decision
Aug 14, 2014, 12:42 AM
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I think the body being found riddled with holes 30 feet from the police cruiser tells most of the story.
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All-In [25834]
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Re: Officer overreated, made a terrible decision
Aug 14, 2014, 12:53 AM
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I'll wait for all of the facts.
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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Whose...?***
Aug 14, 2014, 2:54 AM
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All-TigerNet [11252]
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Re:Vigilante justice
Aug 13, 2014, 10:43 PM
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is underrated.
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CU Medallion [50635]
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don't know enough to comment
Aug 13, 2014, 10:46 PM
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sadly (maybe) i've reached the point where if it ain't on encore westerns or espn i don't know much about it. i have to admit becoming stupid to events is kind of relaxing
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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Re: don't know enough to comment
Aug 13, 2014, 10:52 PM
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things going on. Mostly, I'm seeing images and tweets about how the cops showed up to counter a protest in full armor, then tried to break it up with tear gas and rubber bullets.
I honestly don't know what events led up to this, but the image looks like something out of Gaza, not St. Louis.
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Oculus Spirit [75739]
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I read a little bit today, seems the
Aug 13, 2014, 10:58 PM
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looting and stuff was limited to one night. Now the cops are making things worse in my mind.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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Yeah. it's just going to escalate
Aug 13, 2014, 11:01 PM
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i guess. what a mess. I can't help but wonder what would have made a difference. If the cop had been arrested right away, would this have happened? or was it just going to be like this no matter what?
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CU Medallion [50635]
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that many people out on the streets ain't good but
Aug 13, 2014, 11:04 PM
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as long as they were peaceful the police should stay back and just maintain a presence
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Oculus Spirit [75739]
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I think they should have taken him in, got his family
Aug 13, 2014, 11:12 PM
[ in reply to Yeah. it's just going to escalate ] |
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out of town, and went ahead and released the name. I think we have seen enough of these situations to know how bad it can get. On the surface, it seems they are going above and beyond to protect a suspect while not doing much for the victims family.
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All-In [25834]
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Re: I think they should have taken him in, got his family
Aug 14, 2014, 12:51 AM
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So, we let anarchy rule the day and set the agenda? What are the police supposed to do for the victim's family that you think should be done but has not been done. Other than letting a mob rule the outcome what difference does it really make at this point as to the officer's name? Zimmerman had a bounty put on his head by some insane group. Is that what you want to see here?
You need to chill out and quit letting the mob control things.
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Hall of Famer [24815]
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Zimmerman...? Are you frickin' kidding me. Who cares?***
Aug 14, 2014, 2:57 AM
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Oculus Spirit [75739]
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Yeah, it makes a difference.
Aug 14, 2014, 8:32 AM
[ in reply to Re: I think they should have taken him in, got his family ] |
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You've already got distrust. Appearing to move slowly, still paying the guy, and essentially hiding him don't help.
As I said, get the family the hell out of town. Then keep this guy locked up some place until they make up their mind on any charges.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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I thought about something yesterday...
Aug 14, 2014, 8:57 AM
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I'm guessing that the people in the town KNOW who the cop is. the police force can't be that big, right?
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Oculus Spirit [75739]
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I can't imagine how they don't.
Aug 14, 2014, 9:02 AM
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But I saw it on that demands list and no name seems to have leaked. I'm surprised social media hasn't gotten hold of the names all the cops and just started throwing things out there.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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Cops are saying it is NOT him though
Aug 14, 2014, 11:38 AM
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what a freaking mess.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I saw just now where the protestors were throwing
Aug 14, 2014, 11:50 AM
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Molotov cocktails last night. At that point the police started using gas and bullhorns and rubber bullets.
I think it peaceful until night comes. Then all the crazies feel insulated and come out to do harm and loot.
Its all nutso. We truly are just a bunch of animals.
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All-In [25834]
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Re: Yeah. it's just going to escalate
Aug 14, 2014, 12:41 AM
[ in reply to Yeah. it's just going to escalate ] |
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So now we arrest people before we have determined if they have committed a crime? Seriously? Is that how you want the cops to treat you? I'm not evidently privy to all the facts as you evidently are. So, I'll wait for the investigation by the FBI to be completed.
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Heisman Winner [111736]
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Re: Yeah. it's just going to escalate
Aug 14, 2014, 12:43 AM
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apparently that is not as bad as shooting someone before it has been determined that they have committed a crime, but proceed.
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All-In [25834]
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Re: Yeah. it's just going to escalate
Aug 14, 2014, 12:55 AM
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And you have the facts, now. Good, can you share them with the rest of us?
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All-In [40941]
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dead kid's friend said
Aug 14, 2014, 7:37 AM
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friend wasn't doing anything and was standing there with his hands up and the police officer opened fire and shot him a bunch of times and then went over to him while he was on the ground and pumped a couple more shots in him for good measure.
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All-TigerNet [11208]
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Lakebum may even have a hard time believing that.***
Aug 14, 2014, 7:43 AM
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All-In [40657]
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I find this friends report to be hard to believe
Aug 14, 2014, 8:16 AM
[ in reply to dead kid's friend said ] |
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Because the police cruiser would have video evidence of this and I highly doubt the police department would withhold that.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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1) the car didn't have a camera 2) they were behind/beside
Aug 14, 2014, 8:32 AM
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the car and therefore out of the view anyway. Or so I've heard.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in between, but something just sounds fishy with the cop's story to me.
Message was edited by: 3timeTiger®
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All-In [40657]
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Its 2014 and not all police cruisers have cameras?
Aug 14, 2014, 8:38 AM
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This clearly is because of Obama
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Oculus Spirit [75739]
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Heisman Winner [105628]
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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slow down and read, sir. I simply asked if that would have m
Aug 14, 2014, 8:20 AM
[ in reply to Re: Yeah. it's just going to escalate ] |
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made a difference since that is what the protesters are asking for. In other words, I was questioning what circumstances, if any, could have prevented the tense situation that exists now.
Jeez.
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Oculus Spirit [75739]
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In a situation like this, you bring them in
Aug 14, 2014, 8:41 AM
[ in reply to Re: Yeah. it's just going to escalate ] |
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for questioning and hold them absolutely as long as you can. I don't know if he was detained or for how long. You just cannot make it seem like nothing is happening to the shooter. It adds stress to an already tense situation.
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All-In [49189]
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good point. No mention of it. I'm not up on the killing, but
Aug 13, 2014, 11:05 PM
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seems the police over-reacted at the time and since then. If true, awful for that young man and his family.
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Heisman Winner [111736]
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All-TigerNet [12763]
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Heisman Winner [111736]
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Re: the silence about the Ferguson, Mo police/protestors
Aug 14, 2014, 12:18 AM
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thanks, good video.
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All-In [40657]
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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I mostly agree with him...but marching and rioting aren't
Aug 14, 2014, 8:25 AM
[ in reply to Re: the silence about the Ferguson, Mo police/protestors ] |
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the same thing. He seemed to group them together.
AND BEFORE ANYONE GETS THEIR PANTIES IN A WAD...'m not implying that the crowd was simply marching in protest and the police fired upon them unjustly last night. I don't know what happened. I'm simply saying that I dont see a problem with people peacefully marching in protest against (or for) a cause.
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All-In [40657]
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Im pretty sure you have to have a permit to march
Aug 14, 2014, 8:37 AM
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Im gonna bet they didnt acquire that permit, so what they were doing would be considered illegal.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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Not if they were on the sidewalk and not obstructing
Aug 14, 2014, 8:41 AM
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traffic and such. and since you weren't there and appear to know less about it than I do, I'm sure you have no idea if this were the case. I certainly don't.
Moreover, you missed the point of my post. Peaceful marches and rioting/looting don't belong in the same category, IMO.
Message was edited by: 3timeTiger®
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All-In [40657]
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Do you think that they were peacefully marching on the
Aug 14, 2014, 8:45 AM
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sidewalk? Really? After they decided to burn down buildings and loot stores, you think they finally looked around and said, "hey, lets follow the rules now"?
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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probably not. I was just stating that you don't necessarily
Aug 14, 2014, 8:49 AM
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need a permit to march. that's all.
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All-In [40657]
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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don't be silly. I'm a doctor. I can't be wrong
Aug 14, 2014, 8:55 AM
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I just have a different source.
Do I need a permit before I engage in free speech activity? Not usually. However, certain types of events require permits. Generally, these events are: A march or parade that does not stay on the sidewalk, and other events that require blocking traffic or street closure A large rally requiring the use of sound amplifying devices; or A rally at certain designated parks or plazas
https://www.aclu.org/free-speech/know-your-rights-demonstrations-and-protests
Message was edited by: 3timeTiger®
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All-In [40657]
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Im not sure you even read what you posted
Aug 14, 2014, 8:56 AM
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"Do I need a permit before I engage in free speech activity? Not usually. However, certain types of events require permits. Generally, these events are: A march or parade that does not stay on the sidewalk, and other events that require blocking traffic or street closure A large rally requiring the use of sound amplifying devices; or A rally at certain designated parks or plazas"
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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that's exactly what I said in my original post
Aug 14, 2014, 8:59 AM
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is it not....if it stays on the sidewalk and doesn't block traffic, it doesn't require a permit. Isn't that what that says?
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All-In [40657]
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These people do not look like they are on a sidewalk
Aug 14, 2014, 9:00 AM
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aug 14, 2014, 9:04 AM
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I speaking in general terms and you keep acting as if I'm speaking specifically about Ferguson. Where did I say I thought they were on the sidewalk? For all either of us know, they have permits to march.
jesus dude. http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=15647480
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All-In [40657]
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Why speak "generally"
Aug 14, 2014, 9:06 AM
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when the title of this thread is about Ferguson?
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110%er [8243]
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You thought it was about Pittsburgh.***
Aug 14, 2014, 9:09 AM
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All-In [40657]
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I found a large city in America with those regulations
Aug 14, 2014, 9:11 AM
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Then when you tried to make fun of me, I found St. Louis and those laws were exactly the same.
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110%er [8243]
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I didn't try to make fun of you, peckerhead.
Aug 14, 2014, 9:21 AM
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I was pointing out your stupidity.
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All-In [40657]
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So its okay for other to speak "generally"
Aug 14, 2014, 9:24 AM
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But I cant post a "general" law? Even then, I posted the specific law in the city in question.
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110%er [8243]
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Good. Now you are pointing out your own stupidity.
Aug 14, 2014, 9:45 AM
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Progress
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All-In [40657]
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You arent sure of whats happening, are you, old timer?***
Aug 14, 2014, 9:51 AM
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110%er [8243]
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I am sure that you are young and think all of your
Aug 14, 2014, 10:16 AM
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closely held opinions are infallible. You are good at internet arguing because you are good at misunderstanding on purpose, and that frustrates whoever you are arguing with. I understand that no one in your life has taught you that listening is more valuable than talking. And I am sure you are a peckerhead.
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All-In [40657]
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If youd read the thread, youd understand.
Aug 14, 2014, 10:19 AM
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Im not making an opinion at all and using nothing but hard facts in my arguments. Rather than insulting someone Im just going to leave it at that.
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110%er [8243]
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Inference of opinion without any facts:
Aug 14, 2014, 10:25 AM
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"Do you think that they were peacefully marching on the sidewalk? Really? After they decided to burn down buildings and loot stores, you think they finally looked around and said, "hey, lets follow the rules now"? "
"I find this friends report to be hard to believe"
"Im gonna bet they didnt acquire that permit, so what they were doing would be considered illegal. "
"old timer"
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All-In [40657]
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Re: Inference of opinion without any facts:
Aug 14, 2014, 10:42 AM
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I showed a fact that supported the first idea
No idea the cruiser didnt have a video camera, but also believe its still hard to believe with zero facts
If they did not acquire the permit, it is illegal
You are older than I am.
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110%er [8243]
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You'll get it one day.***
Aug 14, 2014, 11:02 AM
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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because all lounge threads stick to the topic
Aug 14, 2014, 9:09 AM
[ in reply to Why speak "generally" ] |
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I made a comment about htat dude's video and then you starting putting words in my mouth. I was just trying to clarify my statements. That is all. It's taken this long because you keep turning my words around.
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All-In [40657]
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You said you dont have a problem with peaceful protests and
Aug 14, 2014, 9:13 AM
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marches. These people of St. Louis are not peacefully marching, and even if its a "peaceful" march, its probably still illegal because I have yet to see anywhere that has shown they have a permit to do so. I highly doubt the city would grant it after the aftermath of night 1.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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sigh
Aug 14, 2014, 9:26 AM
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okay. you want to talk about last night. neither of us know exactly what happened. from some brief skimming, it looks as though they did have permission to demonstrate, but the police had asked them to break it up before dark. they didn't institute a curfew though. The crowd didn't disperse at nightfall, so the police tried to force them to leave and that's when the conflict started. At some point, one or a few people through a bottle at the police. The police responded with tear gas and rubber bullets. Some protesters then kicked, threw back the canisters.
That's as much as I can figure out from reports, tweets etc. Is it right to through bottles at the police? absolutely not. Is it disturbing to attend a march and see lines of cops dressed for combat? Yes. Is it somewhat expected given what had happened in the days before? Probably. Still, would I want to be standing on the other end of a sniper's gun? No.
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Heisman Winner [105628]
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You forgot to add that police were demanding people stop
Aug 14, 2014, 9:30 AM
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filming, they arrested reporters in a McDonalds, then released them after taking them to the station...no ticket, nothing. There are pics of cops confiscating TV cameras after throwing tear gas at the TV vans, etc.
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All-In [40657]
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Which is illegal
Aug 14, 2014, 9:32 AM
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Unless it was a state of emergency, which I doubt it was.
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All-In [40657]
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This was fun
Aug 14, 2014, 9:30 AM
[ in reply to sigh ] |
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Even if you have permission to march, as you say they did, those permission expire at a certain time, which the police apparently enforced. Why could the group not have dispersed when told? Does it make sense the cops were out in full force? Sure does, especially because they are the targets and scapegoat for this tragedy. If I was a cop, and I was required to be supervising a march against police brutality, you bet your ### Id have a riot shield, tear gas and a gun lined up in case things got out of hand. Youd do the same.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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There was no curfew. It was just a request. So, honestly
Aug 14, 2014, 9:34 AM
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what does that mean? If they were truly peaceful up until that point, why make them leave? Did they really have a stance to make them leave? These are just questions I have. I really don't know.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/ferguson-police-departments-race-relations-spotlight/story?id=24962153
Earlier today Jackson asked protesters to remain peaceful during their gatherings and to disperse before nightfall, but said there was no curfew in place.
"We ask that any residents wishing to assemble in prayer or in protest do so only during daylight hours in an organized and respectful manner," a statement from the police department said. "We further ask that all those wishing to demonstrate or assemble to disperse well before the evening hours to ensure the safety of the participants."
Message was edited by: 3timeTiger®
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All-In [40657]
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Regardless, you cant have people on the streets all night
Aug 14, 2014, 9:37 AM
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As I have said, peaceful protests, great as long as they are legal, which it appears they were, but how long do you want to march and protest for?
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Heisman Winner [105628]
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Stop siding with the black people. It's not like you are
Aug 14, 2014, 9:07 AM
[ in reply to OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! ] |
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....nevermind
CRulez just likes to argue, especially racial things. It's enjoyable, and you cannot win. It's almost like arguing with a version of Cam without Cam's vocabulary.
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All-In [40657]
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I havent argued for or against race at all on this tangent
Aug 14, 2014, 9:10 AM
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Id be embarrassed and feel the same way if it was a bunch of white people doing this. Race doesnt play a part here. Yes its great to want justice, but do it peacefully. Theres no need to make a mess of your own neighborhood, a place you live. Thats just dumb and its going to cost you in the long run anyway with the tax dollars it will cost to rebuild these things. I just dont understand why that would be the first knee jerk reaction to the situation.
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Heisman Winner [105628]
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I don't think you will find many people that disagree with
Aug 14, 2014, 9:11 AM
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that statement at all.
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Oculus Spirit [75739]
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All-In [40657]
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In my posts.
Aug 14, 2014, 9:14 AM
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Im not sure why greenr brought that into the equation.
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Heisman Winner [105628]
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lulz. I was just playing the race-card.***
Aug 14, 2014, 9:17 AM
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All-In [40657]
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Textbook Greenr***
Aug 14, 2014, 9:17 AM
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110%er [8243]
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All-In [40657]
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Oculus Spirit [75739]
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Yesterday, I read they have been given
Aug 14, 2014, 8:58 AM
[ in reply to Well, after doing a little research ] |
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permission for all the gatherings this week. The night of the looting and #### is the one that needed to be avoided most.
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Orange Blooded [3148]
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did jew guise know that Rod Hall went to protest??
Aug 14, 2014, 5:34 AM
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Orange Blooded [4616]
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I definitely do not have any love for law enforcement in
Aug 14, 2014, 8:44 AM
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general, though there are good and bad people in every occupation.
This militarization of local police sickens me - these guys are getting trained and equipped like armed forces and have developed a shoot first mentality (better hide your dog if cops come around). This #### needs to stop, first by cutting funding.
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Oculus Spirit [75739]
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I'd rather we just paid the police officer a little
Aug 14, 2014, 8:48 AM
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better than to have them have riot gear and drive around in SUVS like they do now. They did fine with Crown Vics for years. Rules make is to Ford can't make them anymore and they need replaced by SUVs? In Charleston? Yeah, no.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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CU Medallion [60243]
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Looters are worth 0% of my time and attention
Aug 14, 2014, 8:21 AM
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Sharpton is worth less than that.
And I actually believe that cops don't go around shooting people in cold blood without reason, so my opinion is completely wrong anyway.
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Rock Defender [54]
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what I find much more unusual than those being silent
Aug 14, 2014, 9:16 AM
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are those vehemently defending one side or the other when such a tight lid has been kept on ANY FACTUAL information for one side or the other has been released.
I for one am waiting to see some EVIDENCE before defending one side or the other.
Of course police are going to protect their own and say that the kid went after the officer's gun- that's the only way it would be justified for him to use deadly force. Of course the kid's 18 year old friend is going to paint a picture of a police officer who stopped them for nothing, turn the car back around when they didn't say anything offensive, struggled opening his own police car door with no resistance from the boys, and shot someone who posed absolutely no physical threat... Neither side's story seems to add up with out completely unnecessary contribution from both parties.
If this is a way of trying to get us to speculate and possibly later looking like idiots for doing so with no facts to stand on- I'll play along with that too- if the boys didn't attempt to get in the police car or assault the officer INCLUDING trying to get his gun, then shooting them was excessive force. However- If I had to put money on anything, I'd say they were typical invincible, irreproachable 18 year olds, who felt disrespected by a police officer that was crude when telling them to walk on the sidewalk by using the F word. They mouthed off. He approached them to show them they weren't above the law, and they probably didn't take to well to it. Both sides escalated and led to a physical confrontation. The moment of truth lies in an act where there are already conflicting reports surfacing- one side is saying that the officer opened the door into the boy and it bounced shut and the officer just grabbed the boy's throat for no reason, while the other side claims that the officer tried to exit the vehicle and was pushed back inside and assaulted through the window by a kid who ultimately tried to take his gun away from him and a shot was fired inside of the car during the struggle for the gun (supposedly there is evidence of this that was found and documented at the scene). Which side sounds more believable to you? That someone opens a door, it bounces shut, and someone grabs a throat and shoots someone multiple times in front of tons of witnesses, with no reason, knowing that a major investigation will occur and not shooting the eyewitness standing right beside him, or that some force from an 18 year old hot head who got his ego bruised in front of his boy was used to shut the door and some act had to occur to cause a trained professional to use deadly force to subdue a threat to his life?
NONE OF US TRULY KNOW. We probably never will, b/c at the end of the day- like w/ the Trayvon case, it's just heresay and biased witnesses that will tell how things went down in the defining moment of the encounter (the struggle inside the car- whether the kid assaulted the officer inside the car and went for his gun). There are CERTAINLY crooked cops, but I can't think of any SO screwed up that they just go around picking people they've never met, slamming a car door into these strangers, and shooting them dead in front of a street full of people. There's just too much at stake for them to take that risk for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON.
At this point- until more evidence comes out, we shouldn't form an opinion. But if you're asking me to place money on which way the story will turn, I'd be willing to drop my cash that the boys did start an altercation and physically threaten the officer in one way or another prior to him just deciding to shoot one multiple times in front of a street full of witnesses. Still not saying that whatever was done was just cause to use deadly force- I CERTAINLY don't know enough to make that judgment... but I do think things sound WAY fishy from the story of the kid's friend thus far- he's trying to make things sound TOO innocent (especially the part about the door just bouncing shut and then the cop grabbing his throat and shooting him afterward with no physical altercation or resistance whatsoever).
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Hall of Famer [21271]
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Some of you posts completely amaze me.***
Aug 14, 2014, 9:26 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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I
Aug 14, 2014, 10:16 AM
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hope you're referring to the ones about butt ##### in my ex roommate's car.
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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I appreciate your comments. I just found it strange that the
Aug 14, 2014, 9:32 AM
[ in reply to what I find much more unusual than those being silent ] |
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people of the lounge, who always have something to say about everything, had said nothing about this case. That was really it. I guess there was some threads about looting, but I didn't see a lot about the actual incident that led up to it.
I wasn't sure what would come of the thread. I wasn't digging for anything. I just honestly found the lounge oddly silent.
I guess I'm seeing more about it because it's all over "Black Twitter" and several of my friends are discussing it in my personal twitter timeline.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
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Joined: 11/30/98
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hope that didn't rub you the wrong way...
Aug 14, 2014, 10:15 AM
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when I'm not telling pewp and sodomy stories, I try to be polite and not offend anyone.
Overall, I'm just tired the media constantly trying to stir up organized outrage. They release just the sides of the stories and just enough details to paint a picture that gets people to act out a certain way instead of saying that all the facts aren't available yet. And to be fair, it's their job to invoke emotion, stir up arguments, and encourage readership on their sites/publications, and WE (society/readers/etc.) need to learn to read something without jumping to conclusions, or worse yet- RIOTING.
I HOPE that the majority of educated, level-minded, mature adults are not the ones participating in marches OR RIOTS before they even have any facts...
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Oculus Spirit [78876]
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All-TigerNet [11963]
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True. True.***
Aug 14, 2014, 11:32 AM
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Replies: 90
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