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Orange Blooded [∞]
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Bowden discusses Morris and new offense
Jul 24, 2011, 10:58 PM
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Orange Blooded [3338]
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It's good to see he's not bitter
Jul 24, 2011, 11:53 PM
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It makes it easier to take his comments to heart. I remember us having a similar offense, like he said. We did the no-huddle a few years back. Now that they have the play clock starting sooner, it doesn't have the same effect it used to. But, it will be done at a totally different level from what I hear. Can't wait to see it!
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All-In [47878]
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$4 million would make not bitter too!***
Jul 25, 2011, 9:37 AM
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All-In [47878]
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make ME not bitter too***
Jul 25, 2011, 9:37 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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$4m buys a lot of syntax forgiveness ;-)***
Jul 25, 2011, 11:14 AM
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CU Medallion [55433]
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Re: $4m buys a lot of syntax forgiveness ;-)***
Jul 26, 2011, 10:06 AM
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It would pee me off that it wasn't for more....
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110%er [6219]
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Tommy has been complimentary and a supporter of Clemson
Jul 25, 2011, 12:01 AM
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since he left. He's been a real class act.
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Asst Coach [706]
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Re: Tommy has been complimentary and a supporter of Clemson
Jul 25, 2011, 7:50 AM
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Yes, he has been. He's a good Christian man. He just couldn't get it done as head coach. I really hoped one day he would be able to get over that hump.
Even if he weren't such a man, I wouldn't blame him for giving mad props to Clemson. He's still getting a fat paycheck from CU..
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MVP [548]
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I always liked Coach Bowden
Jul 25, 2011, 12:28 AM
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Too bad things didn't work out.
Oh well, best of luck to him.
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110%er [9301]
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Raycom? Tommy Bowden is no Doc Walker
Jul 25, 2011, 1:42 AM
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Pepper in those grits!!!
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CU Guru [1729]
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If RichRod was still our OC, Tommy would still be the HC...
Jul 25, 2011, 5:37 AM
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... and Tommy would likely have some ACC titles.
If Tommy had hired a good OC (or even fired Spence sooner) Tommy would still be the HC... and Tommy would likely have some ACC titles.
Vic Koenning's defense was good. Steele's defense is good. Statistically, Koenning's was a bit better. But defense hasn't been the problem. Player-talent hasn't been the problem. The lack of a good OC and offensive staff has been the problem since RichRod left. Dabo may have solved that problem.
Dabo screwed up and wasted TWO YEARS when he made his buddy, Billy Napier, the OC. Now Dabo's fate rests with Morris. I'm hopeful that Morris will get it done.
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Orange Blooded [4757]
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Re: If RichRod was still our OC, Tommy would still be the HC...
Jul 25, 2011, 6:59 AM
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I disagree that defense hasn't been a problem, at least in Koenning's case. While his defenses had good statistics, I think all of us can remember how many times his defense would give up easy 3rd-and-longs that any defense in the country should have been able to stop. That used to drive me absolutely crazy, how we were practically unable to stop the 3rd-and-long plays. Opposing teams would burn us on that time and time again, and often not just for a first down but for huge gains, even scores.
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CU Medallion [64593]
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You mean like the Auburn game in 2010 and GT in 2009?***
Jul 25, 2011, 8:09 AM
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Orange Blooded [4757]
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Re: You mean like the Auburn game in 2010 and GT in 2009?***
Jul 25, 2011, 10:37 AM
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All i can really say to that is you're talking about 2, possibly 3 games over 2 years. With Koenning it seemed like every single 3rd down of every single game. I know it wasn't, but I know I rolled my eyes and held my breath every time Koenning's defeneses had to hold on a 3rd down, especially if it was a 3rd and long.
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All-Conference [418]
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Re: You mean like the Auburn game in 2010 and GT in 2009?***
Jul 25, 2011, 5:35 PM
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Really proud of him and Ron's season last year at Illinois. They did well for the first year and played great aqainst Baylor in bowl. Lost some good players to the NFL but hope they have another decent year. Ron is a Clemson guy and they didn't have a chance to stay and coach at Clemson. Why don't you just wish them well?
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Orange Blooded [4757]
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Re: You mean like the Auburn game in 2010 and GT in 2009?***
Jul 26, 2011, 8:05 AM
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I wish Vic Koenning the very best. At Illinois. I don't recall saying that I wanted him to be a failure; I hope he has a great career, but Clemson is not the place I want to see him develop it.
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All-Conference [418]
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Re: You mean like the Auburn game in 2010 and GT in 2009?***
Jul 26, 2011, 4:46 PM
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Vic is fine. And I am glad Ron didn't stay and take the administration job here. He's a good coach and recruiter (Gaines, DaQuan, Sapp). Just glad they found a little success. They deserved it.
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CU Guru [1729]
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Legend [19586]
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All-TigerNet [13360]
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Re: If RichRod was still our OC, Tommy would still be the HC...
Jul 25, 2011, 9:23 AM
[ in reply to Re: If RichRod was still our OC, Tommy would still be the HC... ] |
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Totally agree- Vic's D would play very well for the majority of the game, but you put them in a pressure situation, a must stop situation, and they would give up the yards every time when it counted. I am personally more impressed with Steele. I like his more aggressive nature and the simple fact that he hasnt ever said "bend dont break". Vic's D always seemed to "bend" right into the red-zone in the 4th quarters.
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Recruit [87]
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Re: If RichRod was still our OC, Tommy would still be the HC...
Jul 25, 2011, 11:03 AM
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vic never blitzed that was his problem, steele loves to blitz and that may be his problem to a degree, you have to find a happy medium on the blitz, to make sure no big plays are giving up
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CU Guru [1729]
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Games are won & lost on points. Koenning allowed fewer.
Jul 25, 2011, 1:09 PM
[ in reply to Re: If RichRod was still our OC, Tommy would still be the HC... ] |
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I was also frustrated by Koenning's soft zone defenses giving up critical 3rd down conversions, SEEMINGLY far too often. And so when Dabo brought on Steele, I excited about Steele running a more aggressive defense. At an emotional level, I like Steele and his defense better than than Koenning and his. But when it comes down to it, football games are won or lost on points, and statistically Koenning's scoring defenses ranked higher and allowed fewer points per game than Steele's. Stats below. I'm not saying that Koenning was better than Steele. I'm saying that the defensive coordinator hasn't been the problem since Koenning arrived. The offensive coordinator has been the problem since RichRod left.
Year, Scoring-D rank, Pts/game allowed 2010, #13, 18.7 (Steeele) 2009, #25, 20.4 (Steele) 2008, #13, 17.3 (Koenning) 2007, #10, 18.7 (Koenning) 2006, #16, 16.2 (Koenning) 2005, #11, 17.6 (Koenning)
Year, Scoring-O rank, Pts/game 2010, #86, 24.0 (Napier) 2009, #28, 31.4 (Napier) 2008, #60, 25.2 (Spence-Napier) 2007, #29, 33.1 (Spence) ... 2000, #14, 36 (Rodriguez)
Rich Rodriguez scored more points per game than every OC that Clemson has had since RichRod left. (And he probably did it with less player-talent.)
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Orange Blooded [3637]
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only question I have about that...
Jul 25, 2011, 1:36 PM
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would be SOS. I agree with everything you said, didn't LIKE Koenning's defense as much as Steele's but it got good stats. On the other hand it always seemed to give up 'that play'. A 4th down, a 3rd and long... whenever you needed a stop it didn't seem like it could deliver.
But if the SOS was better in '09 and '10, then you could argue that even though he's giving up more points(and it ain't many more) that Steele's defense is actually better.
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CU Guru [1729]
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Good question about SOS. The answer is...
Jul 25, 2011, 5:22 PM
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Year, Scoring-D rank, Pts/game allowed, SOS 2010, #13, 18.7, #27 (Steeele) 2009, #25, 20.4, #24 (Steele) 2008, #13, 17.3, #29 (Koenning) 2007, #10, 18.7, #41 (Koenning) 2006, #16, 16.2, #59 (Koenning) 2005, #11, 17.6, #44 (Koenning)
I'm not sure how one could weight the data to include SOS for fair comparison, but to my subjective eye, they seem pretty similar. I guess one could make the argument that in light of SOS Steele is better.
Of course there are other factors like how much the offense or special teams affected the defensive performance, and what kind of player-talent each DC inherited.
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Heisman Winner [105574]
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I would say you are right about that.***
Jul 25, 2011, 8:09 AM
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All-Conference [428]
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Starter [357]
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David Hood doing better job that GNews or The State
Jul 25, 2011, 8:22 AM
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Good piece, David. Very informative. Today's State paper ran 2 ACC Kick-off articles from the Greenville News, which could have been written pretty much any preseason. Nothing real insightful.
BTW, The State seems determined to get any remaining Clemson subscribers they have to cancel their subscriptions. With their Clemson articles today is a huge picture of Clemson's loss to Auburn last year.
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Commissioner [942]
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Interesting comment that Tommy West made about Tommy Bowden
Jul 25, 2011, 8:40 AM
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in TI. He said that he felt that Clemson fired (West) a better coach than they hired (Bowden). I don't see it that way. TB was a good coach and much better than West.
Also, from reading TI about Hootie Ingram: Hootie said Tommy Bowden was concerned, when Ingram was hired to be an analyst, about a former head coach (Hootie) 2nd guessing him. I wonder now since Tommy will be commenting on ACC teams as part of the media, whether he will be honest in his appraisals of teams. If he is, he will have to 2nd guess Head Coaches at times.
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CU Medallion [67908]
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Re: Interesting comment that Tommy West made about Tommy Bowden
Jul 25, 2011, 9:10 AM
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tts what commentators do. they bring up lots of possibilities in every situation
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Scout Team [190]
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Orange Blooded [3350]
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I hope that's the case. I like both Tommys and doubt
Jul 25, 2011, 2:57 PM
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Tommy West would make a comment like that.
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Orange Blooded [3350]
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That may or may not be true
Jul 25, 2011, 2:56 PM
[ in reply to Interesting comment that Tommy West made about Tommy Bowden ] |
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as far as being a better coach. However, there is a lot more to being a head coach than coaching. You have to manage, expectations, fans, players, and money. Know how and when to hire, fire and how to raise money. The best Head Coaches probably aren't the best coaches, but they probaly know how to hire the best coaches.
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Team Captain [495]
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What happened to all the TB coaching prowess that was
Jul 25, 2011, 3:06 PM
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supposedly in such demand the last couple years of his coaching career - that he parlayed into that ridiculous contract? I'm guessing the phone never rang. It obviously hasn't rang since, and I expect he'll be unplugged after a season on TV.
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CU Guru [1729]
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Yep. I never heard a TB-fan or TDP admit they were wrong.
Jul 25, 2011, 5:36 PM
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TDP and the Tommy Bowden fans claimed that Tommy deserved a big buyout because he was in such high demand. I thought that was nonsense. I never heard TDP or even one Tommy Bowden fan admit that they were wrong about that.
When Tommy Bowden was fired from Clemson, he said that he’d like to be a head coach again. However, since he left, there have been 67 FBS head coaching changes, and I yet haven’t heard of any school offering him a head coaching job. I haven’t even heard of any schools asking to interview Tommy Bowden-- not that everything gets reported in the media. It’s interesting because over the last few years, except for Tommy Bowden, the other non-retiring, scandal-free, head coaches who got fired after winning-seasons, landed head coaching jobs (like Houston Nutt & Tommy Tuberville) or landed NFL jobs (like Jeff Jagodzinski & Dave Wannestadt) within 2 seasons. One notable almost-exception is Phillip Fulmer, who got fired after a losing season, but overall had a solid, winning record with a national title, 2 SEC titles, and 6 SEC East titles at Tennessee. However, at least Fulmer has reportedly interviewed with a few schools, and has been finicky in turning down interviews from several others. I’m guessing that most FBS athletic directors think Tommy Bowden is an unacceptable choice for head coach because of his long track record of upper-mediocrity at Clemson in one of the weaker BCS conferences—which is something that I thought should have been obvious to Clemson’s AD and Tommy-fans a lot earlier.
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CU Guru [1092]
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Well....
Jul 25, 2011, 8:32 PM
[ in reply to What happened to all the TB coaching prowess that was ] |
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If his under-study who now has the head job doesn't start winning more ballgames he is going to have the same issues as TB.
Talk is cheap. Media days are for cute quotes. In one month's time it is time to start putting right what has been wrong for that last 20 years. Beat the snot out of people.
Giddy up.
nc
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Fan [50]
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Re: Bowden discusses Morris and new offense
Jul 25, 2011, 4:16 PM
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Tam bowden doing broadcasting. He's 'bout as bad a Porky the Pig.
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Replies: 36
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