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Topic: I don’t have any confidence that our issues tonight will change.
Replies: 28   Last Post: Jan 2, 2018, 2:43 AM by: Xenotiger
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Replies: 28  

I don’t have any confidence that our issues tonight will change.

emoji_events [8]
Jan 2, 2018, 12:55 AM

And I hate to admit that, because I think Dabo is great. But the issues we had tonight aren’t new, however they were magnified because we played a team that had a great game plan.

1. Offensive play calling was predictable. That can’t happen against a great defense like Alabama. We didn’t even try anything different until the third quarter. Will Scott and Elliott change? I don’t think they will.

2. Offensive line was awful. It has been suspect for years. Caldwell remains OL coach. I don’t think this will change either.

3. Kelly Bryant’s limitations showed. I like him a lot, and he should absolutely be the starter going into spring practice. But I would hope that Johnson and Lawrence will have a chance to compete for the starting job. Based on what we have seen from Dabo in years past with QBs, I don’t have any expectation that the QB competition will truly be open. Bryant would have to regress considerably or have a season ending injury for someone else to get a chance.

Don’t get me wrong, our program is great and that is because of excellent leadership from the top down. But my fear is that the above issues will remain next year because of our staff’s apparent stubbornness and tendency to default to the path of least resistance. I hope I’m wrong.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


Re: I don’t have any confidence that our issues tonight will change.

[1]
Jan 2, 2018, 12:56 AM

Don’t entirely disagree. Our o-line and its inability to create holes and pass protect is very obvious.

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Re: I don’t have any confidence that our issues tonight will change.

[1]
Jan 2, 2018, 12:58 AM

Dabo will make changes. OL coach retires. TE coach needs change. TE and rbs can not block.

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Re: I don’t have any confidence that our issues tonight will change.

[1]
Jan 2, 2018, 12:58 AM

If nothing changes and we only make the college playoffs every year, I guess I'm fine with no changes for awhile. We are a great program.

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Re: I don’t have any confidence that our issues tonight will change.

[2]
Jan 2, 2018, 1:01 AM

I will say I have had doubts about our OC's this year. I felt like at times they struggled and unlike last year they did not have Watson and Williams to save their butts.

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or Leggett***

[1]
Jan 2, 2018, 1:04 AM



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Let's not leave out Mike Williams or Artavis Scott....***


Jan 2, 2018, 1:24 AM



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Re: I don’t have any confidence that our issues tonight will change.

[1]
Jan 2, 2018, 12:59 AM

I think they're a chance Caldwell could go. Probably have to be a retirement or semi-forced retirement. His age is being used against us in recruiting a lot and the development has to get better. Carmen seemed like he was mostly recruited by Dabo.

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^^ Yep, agree 75% but do know DaBo will make coaching changes..


Jan 2, 2018, 1:04 AM

and that will help.

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Play calling will change with TL.


Jan 2, 2018, 1:06 AM

You really think it will be the same?

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When have Scott and Elliott ever adjusted to a significant degree?

[1]
Jan 2, 2018, 1:10 AM

We seem married to the zone read option, which results in a ton of QB runs (much more than I prefer). Lawrence is a great passer, supposedly better than Watson when he came out of high school, but I will be shocked if we do anything different from what we’ve done the last few years on offense.

Before we even discuss Lawrence though, I don’t really have any confidence that he will get a chance to win the starting job next season.

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Cobbox on Brad Brownell: “His only problem is he has to deal with turd fans questioning every move he makes.”


We adapt. It was different this year from last year.


Jan 2, 2018, 1:15 AM

Dabo knows that he needs to keep TL and his golden arm healthy.

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Agree that strategy hasn’t changed, but to an extent


Jan 2, 2018, 1:16 AM

You play the hand you’re dealt. Kelly’s strength is his mobility, not his arm. Deshauns threat of running opened up his passing game. The zone read is still here bc this is still our personnel. Now if they force Lawrence into that, I’d be highly suspect.

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Re: When have Scott and Elliott ever adjusted to a significant degree?

emoji_events [5]
Jan 2, 2018, 1:18 AM

I don't really get why people keep going on on how the coaches have a history of not opening up the QB position. I get that people are basing that on Stoudt starting over Watson, but I really think Watson would have won the job right away had he not gotten hurt in the spring. Watson also played in the 1st game, and was given the starting job sometime in the 1st quarter of our 3rd game that season.

It was obvious the coaches favored Watson, but were trying to not put him in a tough spot to open his career on the road against UGA and FSU in the first 3 games of the season after missing a good portion of spring practice IMO.

I can also buy into them thinking Bryant was the most ready at the start of this season. Johnson may be 10 times more talented, but we really don't know what level of grasp on the playbook he had before the start of the season, and then our team got off to a hot start with Bryant actually playing pretty darn well through the first few games. At that point, I don't see how you make a change at QB when you're midway through the season and in the thick of the playoff race.

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Great rational post

[1]
Jan 2, 2018, 1:29 AM

You are completely right. And still I wish Dabo would have had the fortitude to play ZC and HJ in some 4th qtrs to keep the passing skill sets and depth in play. But again, you are right, and Dabo cannot be blamed for hoping KB could out play a #1 QB recruit though it does seem odd in practice.

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Trying to utilize Bryants strengths...


Jan 2, 2018, 2:09 AM

You won't see that as much with Johnson & TL

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I think Dabo is a great person, leader, CEO, and recruiter


Jan 2, 2018, 1:11 AM

I've never thought our coaches have been the best in game situations with maybe BV being the exception. However, I do think Dabo has obviously shown the ability to make decisions that improve the program. He definitely evaluates things at the end of every season. Hopefully he will fix the OC situation or it will work itself out with one or both of those guys taking an HC spot next year. I like both of those guys a lot, but I really think we could do better with one, proven OC.

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Re: I think Dabo is a great person, leader, CEO, and recruiter

[4]
Jan 2, 2018, 1:24 AM

Proven OC? They've been the OC's for 3 full seasons. We've won the ACC all 3 of those years, made the CFP all 3 of those years, reached the NC twice, and won a NC. One of them won the assistant coach of the year award this very season. I didn't realize there were more proven guys available.

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Re: I think Dabo is a great person, leader, CEO, and recruiter

[1]
Jan 2, 2018, 1:42 AM

Poor logic. Just because we have been successful doesn't mean we have the best people in every position. We have been out-coached in numerous games, especially on the offensive side...sometimes by much lesser opponents. I'm just saying I think we could do better at OC.

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Re: I don’t have any confidence that our issues tonight will change.

[2]
Jan 2, 2018, 1:12 AM

I disagree on the OL. Even most of our fans say we weren't much of a threat in throwing the ball down the field, which allowed defenses to try and take away the run. Even with that our top running back averaged 7.2 yards per carry, the 2nd leading rusher averaged 6.4, and the 3rd leader averaged 5.0 yards. Yes, a lot of that is owed to the skill of our running backs, but you can't just totally discredit the OL for that either.

Things were bad tonight, but Alabama has done that to a lot of teams. There's a reason they are 1 win away from their 5th title in 9 years.

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did you not see the poor footwork of our oline...


Jan 2, 2018, 2:35 AM

and how they stood around letting Bama defenders get through. They did play good most of the season, but reverted back to poor play in this game. Bama’s defense wasn’t as good this season, and our oline was filled with experienced four and five star talent and just came out with zero effort and never adjusted to what Bama was doing. Caldwell is a nice guy and good recruiter, but he is terrible at coaching oline fundamentals

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Re: I don’t have any confidence that our issues tonight will change.

[1]
Jan 2, 2018, 1:35 AM

It will change with time and experience.

You have to remember Bama had years in between Championships and they have at least a 6 year jump on us as a program. Saban got there in 2007 and they immediately brought in a Top class. They have been building off the 2008 success since. We just got to that level a few years ago and have not had a class with big numbers yet. 2019 will be our first big class post major success.

Dabo is, imo, speeding the process up as much as he can by playing our 2nd and 3rd string as early as possible in meaningful spots during the season. We were not a program with history like Bama. It was a much easier move for them. Especially, since Nick came in with a National Championship at LSU to sale recruits. Urban and Ohio St were in a similar postion as Nick and Bama.
We had to establish much more and recently have. This is exactly what Dabo knows when he says, "The best is yet to come." We are a young program and that depth to where we can fully do what we do from year to year is right around the corner.

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I pretty much agree with all of that, except

[2]
Jan 2, 2018, 1:56 AM

I don't think it's the end of the world.

Despite all 3 of those issues, we still went 12-2 and made the playoff in a "rebuilding" year. If you had told me that preseason I would have taken it in a heartbeat, as would most Clemson fans at that time.

This team overachieved while breaking in a new QB for the first time in 3 years. An elite QB would have made the difference this year, and will again in the future.

I think the staff learned their lesson with Watson & Stoudt and wouldn't hesitate to pull Kelly if they felt like there was somebody else behind him who was ready to go. Maybe Johnson with another off-season or TL right off the bat will be physically and mentally prepared to be the guy

FSU is bound to be down for another year or two...we will continue to go 10-2 or better during the regular season. That puts us in Charlotte. Win there and make the playoff. Wash rinse repeat.

But even still, we ain't gonna win em all. Teams have weaknesses. This team had weaknesses that got exposed tonight by the golden standard of the sport, plain and simple. Given our expectations, however, I'm somewhat at ease with it.

We'll be back, with an elite QB next time

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Re: I don’t have any confidence that our issues tonight will change.


Jan 2, 2018, 2:07 AM

"based on what we have seen from Dabo with qb's.""

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Re: I don’t have any confidence that our issues tonight will change.


Jan 2, 2018, 2:25 AM

Based on what we have seen in the past? Because, a true freshman wasn't a "starter" until game three of the 2014 season? Or because, Hunter hasn't seen more time this year? Throwing a true freshman, who desperately needed to add size and strength, into the starter role when on the road against Georgia, would be irresponsible and detrimental to his future growth.
*Please see first rounders that are forced to play for sorry teams in the first year, who never recover from it.

Did you see Hunter get blown up the last time he played, because he didn't call the right protection?

You have no basis for your accusations. TL will start as soon as he can adequately run the system. That is, in fact, what we've seen in the past. Ridiculous...

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Only real issue is the oline coaching...


Jan 2, 2018, 2:27 AM

I didn’t like some of the play calling this season, but it wasn’t horrible. It just played to KB’s weaknesses and limited his growth. Too many pass plays under 10 yards, made it impossible for KB to improve on aspects of his game. And play action pass should have been used more.

Don’t see KB being kept as the starter if someone else proves they are better than him. While Deshaun should have started from the beginning, Dabo did switch to him early in the season in Watson’s freshman season. So that’s a false narrative that Dabo sticks to starters who are ineffective.

Future is bright, just need a new oline coach

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Re: Only real issue is the oline coaching...

[1]
Jan 2, 2018, 2:32 AM

I think the plan is for Kyle Richardson to be elevated to oline coach once Caldwell retires, which I kind of hope is sooner rather than later. Other teams are going to keep going negative hard with top level oline recruits.

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Hope so. Caldwell is a nice guy and good recruiter...


Jan 2, 2018, 2:39 AM

but he can’t coach even the basic fundamentals. We had an experienced line with four and five star players and they looked like a bunch of two star true freshman tonight

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Re: Hope so. Caldwell is a nice guy and good recruiter...


Jan 2, 2018, 2:43 AM

I think at this point the recruiting aspect is suspect. Other teams are going negative with his age pretty hard and Carmen seems like that was all Dabo. It's tough, Sam Pittman smoked him this year but some of that was "transportation issues".

If Richardson isn't already the next guy the NC State online coach makes like half of what Caldwell does.

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