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Replies: 78
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Editor [∞]
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TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 8:00 AM
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All-TigerNet [11502]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 8:02 AM
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Yep, he said other administrators have taken notice...
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110%er [6687]
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ZERO 0% GIVE IT UP TARHEELTIG, you need to go to
Apr 14, 2022, 9:25 AM
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another board - tarheel or coot, they would welcome your negativity around our Tiger teams.
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All-In [27390]
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Re: ZERO 0% GIVE IT UP TARHEELTIG, you need to go to
Apr 14, 2022, 10:44 AM
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A huge AMEN . Posters like him make me sorry I ever joined in with this group of NON supporters. I’m betting he has never set foot on my campus and I’m positive he has NEVER given a penny to Clemson U!
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Orange Blooded [2423]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 8:19 AM
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They admire that part in the schedule where they know they’re gonna win.
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Orange Blooded [3635]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 8:23 AM
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Geez, he’s living in a different world ..
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 11:39 AM
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He really is living in a different world. Does Brownell think people are going to tell him to his face that his program is inferior?
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All-TigerNet [10958]
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 9:18 AM
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Our basketball program is way better than vandy's football program
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Legend [16938]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 11:22 AM
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Probably not as much as you think. They have two bowl wins and played in 5 bowl games during Brownell’s tenure. I would give the edge to Brownell but not by much. And yes, I’m aware that they’re much worse right now - but Brad’s been here 12 years so just comparing where we are today is pretty meaningless.
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CU Guru [1560]
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Football postseason =/= basketball postseason
Apr 14, 2022, 12:15 PM
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There are 35 bowl games meaning 70 out of 131 (53%) FBS teams are in bowl games and obviously 35 out of those 131 (27%) teams win a game.
In basketball there are 68 teams that make the postseason that anyone counts and there are 350 total teams or 19%. Only half those teams win meaning only 10% of teams win a tournament game each season.
Even if you include the NIT it's still half the percentage (29% vs 53% and 14% vs 27%) of teams making postseason and winning at least one game as compared to football.
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Legend [16938]
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Re: Football postseason =/= basketball postseason
Apr 14, 2022, 12:23 PM
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I didn’t say they were equal and said that I’d give the win to Brownell - but they aren’t as laughably different as he implied. If you really want to compare (due to the disparity of # of D1 teams that don’t compete in football versus are eligible for the NCAA tournament) you would need to compare the percent of P5 schools that make bowl games versus the percent of non-automatic bids that go to P5 schools. It’s still not perfect but better than declaring that simply because there are more basketball teams that it most be harder.
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Freshman [-99]
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And 2/3 of dual school are little schools that have little to know history or tradition
Apr 14, 2022, 3:40 PM
[ in reply to Football postseason =/= basketball postseason ] |
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And don’t play other sports like football. Or have football programs no one has ever heard of or doesn’t care about. Basketball takes five guys in a quart. Football takes big-time money. You’re comparing apples and oranges. Do you think Clemson should be losing to college of Charleston ?
It never ceases to amaze me the rationalizing and pretzel logic people come up with to defend whatever nonsense they’re trying to support.
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Legend [17680]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 11:22 PM
[ in reply to Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league ] |
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Your postseason standard is inaccurate. But since you've set that as an arbitrary measuring stick, let's compare.
SEC football teams play 8 conference games and 4 non-cons. Of the 4 non-cons, 1 will be an FCS, 1 P5 and 2 G5s. If Vandy goes 3-1 in their non-cons, they only have to go 3-5 in their SEC games to go to a bowl. (Bowl eligibility currently guarantees an invitation)
Considering how inconsistent the SEC Least has been for the last decade, 6 wins is definitely achievable, even for Vandy under anyone not named Mason.
For Clemson basketball to be as anemic as Vandy football, our Tigers would only have to play .375 basketball in conference. Even 8-12 is a winning pctg of .400--better than Vandy's SEC winning pctg in bowl-eligible years. Yet no Clemson fan thinks that a conference record of 8-12 deserves an NCAA invitation.
We keep hoping that 10 or 12 ACC victories will get us an invitation, but end up disappointed. In our "mediocrity", many of us fans consider a top half finish to be a successful season, postseason or not. Vandy football can call their season successful with a .375 record in conference.
Your point that the difference is not large is true, but it is significant. No one will ever confuse Tiger basketball with Vandy football.
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110%er [5436]
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110%er [8563]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 8:20 AM
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Haters are going to hate whether it's Brownell, Elliott, Caldwell or Lee because they are unsuccessful and always lay the blame on someone. It is what it is and thankfully, those haters will not be in positions to make decisions that make any difference.
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All-American [595]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 8:26 AM
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He’s correct. Duke and UNC love us because it’s 1-2 all but guaranteed wins every year. Just like we admire Wake in football. Love their program. To pieces.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 8:55 PM
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so you good with basketball and baseball GOOD GRIEF
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Orange Blooded [2423]
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110%er [6075]
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You serious, Clark?***
Apr 14, 2022, 8:24 AM
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CU Medallion [51559]
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It's not admired by Clemson fans, so***
Apr 14, 2022, 8:26 AM
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All-In [44073]
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So what does that tell you about Clemson fans?***
Apr 14, 2022, 9:41 AM
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Legend [16264]
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Behind Brad's back they're laughing at him, and us.
Apr 14, 2022, 10:28 AM
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Brown L knows this but chooses to gaslight you and those in his Brown L Brigade with statements like this.
He's done just enough to keep his job year after year. And here we are again. Realists know that not a lick of extra money or support or resources is going to magically improve his ability to get outcoached in crunch times, which makes him so endearing to our league brethren.
#FreeClemsonBasketball
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Legend [17680]
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Re: So what does that tell you about Clemson fans?***
Apr 14, 2022, 9:35 PM
[ in reply to So what does that tell you about Clemson fans?*** ] |
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Judge Keller® Speaking personally, it tells me Clemson fans gave up on Brownell many years ago. Brownell has been at Clemson for 12-13 years and been given every opportunity. And in the course of conducting his long term contract, and enriching himself on Clemson's nickel, he has inspired 80% of once Clemson Basketball fans to turn away from Clemson Basketball. Littlejohn attendance has been steadily diminished even with tens of thousands more graduates since Brownell arrived.
The style of play is boring. The decade-long inability of Brownell's teams to play in pressure games and moments reflects Brownell's play-with-fear approach. Have you considered Brownell has overstayed his welcome? Have you considered Barnes and OPP received more financially lucrative offers by other programs unavailable to Brownell? Clemson fans are not the problem. Alumni and fan apathy with Brownell shifting to animosity is now the problem. And coaches that divide their fan bases are typically not given the chain length that BB has generously received.
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Orange Blooded [2753]
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I think it is admired by Clemson fans . . .
Apr 14, 2022, 10:38 AM
[ in reply to It's not admired by Clemson fans, so*** ] |
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but I think Brad is offering a false dichotomy between the legitimacy of recent criticism and an ability to appreciate the fighting spirit the program/recent teams have had. Stating the obvious about our inconsistency of play and overall program stagnancy does not mean one doesn't recognize the positive elements of the program. He seems to think that those making such criticism aren't willing to acknowledge the that perseverance. But again, that seems like a false dichotomy.
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CU Guru [1250]
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Obviously Not By
Apr 14, 2022, 8:33 AM
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potential student athletes.
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Starter [383]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 8:46 AM
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Losing "a million close games" is not the sign of a good program.
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All-In [30467]
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Getting my popcorn ready…
Apr 14, 2022, 8:49 AM
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This should be good ????????????
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110%er [6984]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 8:54 AM
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Brownell has gotten very defensive, clear sign of a man on the hot seat. If the program is in good shape and truly admired, you don’t have to tell us, we would know. Simple fact is, the writings on the wall. He knows he’s not going to make the final four or win the ACC or any of these goals. Next year will be his last
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CU Guru [1404]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 10:18 AM
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Probably so.
Then Clemson will start it's cycle all over again
Clemson basketball is to the ACC
as UsC football is to the SEC.
No consistent history of success
Not seen as a threat or top level team
Has occasional success
Many "fans" have distorted, exaggerated perception of the strength their team and program
Only difference. USUcK fans are more supportive to their football team than Clemson "fans" are to their basketball team and program.
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Scout Team [194]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 3:17 PM
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I've been in the dead cockroach (I don't turn down free seats with catering ANYWHERE) and watched the stadium CLEAR OUT at the beginning of the third quarter with them down by EIGHT. You were saying?
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110%er [5436]
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CU Guru [1754]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 9:06 AM
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It is admired because they know Clemson will be in the bottom half most years.
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All-In [44073]
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Seriously?
Apr 14, 2022, 9:45 AM
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We’re 7th in the ACC in wins over the last 5 years. That’s not bottom half.
Continue to push falsehoods if you wish.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Seriously?
Apr 14, 2022, 11:22 AM
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This^ For better or worse, we are now steadily mid-table.
As compared back in the pre-3 era... we were 7th too
But #7 out of 7 teams.
When Tech joined, we dropped to 8th.
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All-In [38475]
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: Seriously?
Apr 14, 2022, 11:51 AM
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It's not good enough for me. I have higher aspirations for the basketball program. Too bad the Clemson administration does not.
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Legend [16071]
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We have a losing record in the ACC over the last
Apr 14, 2022, 4:17 PM
[ in reply to Seriously? ] |
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6 years. That isn’t a lot to hang your hat on
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Varsity [231]
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Re: Seriously?
Apr 14, 2022, 4:32 PM
[ in reply to Seriously? ] |
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Did he say we're in the bottom half over the last 5 years cumulatively? No he didn't. The way you try to manipulate/skew stats is soooooooo annoying.
in those last 5 years we've finished
10th (bottom half)
5th
9th (bottom half)
9th (bottom half)
4th
so 3 out of 5 years, or "in the bottom half most years" as CU1976 said. And that's even using your attempted stat manipulation by using Brownell's best stretch of "last 5 years", ignoring more than half of his tenure.
And I expect you'll try to claim we finished 8th in 2020 because GT was ineligible for the tourney, which would be dead middle and not bottom half, but if you aren't counting GT, then we're 8th of 14, still bottom half
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Orange Blooded [2637]
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Re: Seriously?
Apr 15, 2022, 9:09 PM
[ in reply to Seriously? ] |
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Yeah, but is that admired around the league? Try to be objective
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All-In [34486]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 9:15 AM
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All-In [32706]
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It's a MORE delusional Tommy Bowden 2.0 - NEVER thought
Apr 14, 2022, 9:18 AM
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that was even possible.
Good Lord . . . .
We fire him - let's see how quickly this "very admired" program leader gets scooped up . . . .
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All-In [38475]
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Should we Support Brad?
Apr 14, 2022, 9:21 AM
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I don't feel sorry for Brad one bit. He has had his chance... he was given a new arena, new practice facilities, new locker and training rooms, window dressing, pay raises, and extensions. What else could he be given to help, except more wins? Sorry, but wins have to be earned in recruiting, practice, and on the court. The players play their hearts out, but a team is only as good as the coaching staff.
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All-In [44073]
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Ask yourself what other ACC programs are spending the extra millions
Apr 14, 2022, 11:17 AM
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of dollars per year on for their men’s basketball program. Then you’ll have your answer.
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All-In [38475]
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Re: Ask yourself what other ACC programs are spending the extra millions
Apr 14, 2022, 11:30 AM
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It's all timing. We are not spending it now, because we spent it 8-10 years ago when they weren't spending. You can't build new facilities every 3 years. You seem to have the "just throw money at it and see if it sticks" idea.
If you want to give me a breakdown for the last 12 years of what all the ACC schools have spent on basketball, then I may listen. Clemson has spent a fortune to give Brad what he needs, and it has not helped. If Brad starts winning more games tomorrow (no one would be happier than me) then I will certainly eat crow, but for some reason I think I'll keep eating good food.
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110%er [5436]
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Scout Team [153]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 9:30 AM
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When you start making comparisons other schools in your league then thats a problem. The only thing that matters is your program. I could care less about the others. If your having to make excuses thats a problem. Sounds like our leadership in the fantasy land of DC these days. Always blaming others. This makes me want him to go more. Take ownership in what you do.
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Orange Blooded [2041]
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I wish Clemson would just come out and say we are not paying
Apr 14, 2022, 9:33 AM
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players or their families for their kids to come to Clemson and play basketball or any other sport. Just draw a line in the dirt and stick to it. Clemson should help students with NIL. But they should state outright that they are not going to do what Texas A&M is doing. We are not writing papers, giving UNCheat free grades or anything else. Then when I watch a Clemson BB game or any other sport I know that these athletes attend Clemson because they want to and know the rules.
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All-In [44073]
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Good for Brownell defending his program!
Apr 14, 2022, 9:39 AM
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It’s nice to see him addressing a lot of the obstacles the program has had to deal with, including some of the unfair criticism and lack of acknowledgment by some people regarding the success we’ve had.
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Legend [16264]
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Your definition of success is exactly why our basketball
Apr 14, 2022, 10:35 AM
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program largely stagnates and wallows in mediocrity. Until you and others can shed this loser mentality and outlook, we will always be what we've always been. Brown L is taking you for a sucker. You seem to care a lot about Clemson basketball, so that's sad to see.
Go Tigers.
#FreeClemsonBasketball
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110%er [5436]
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110%er [7555]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 10:08 AM
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He is frigging nuts…..nothing but a bunch of crap…..should have been fired years ago!
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CU Guru [1948]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 10:08 AM
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Wait, so Clemson plays basketball? I was unaware.
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CU Guru [1893]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 11:43 AM
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Something that loosely passes for baketball.
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CU Medallion [64621]
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LOL...bless his heart !!!!***
Apr 14, 2022, 10:23 AM
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Head Coach [765]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 11:11 AM
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I have not been particularly pro Brownell or anti Brownell but now that the facility upgrades have been done and, hopefully, had time to take effect my position is this- for the 22-23 season Brownell needs to be good or be gone. I hope he and the team will be good.
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Hall of Famer [21877]
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With our program being so admired and well respected
Apr 14, 2022, 11:15 AM
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I'd imagine that Brad has had to turn down lots of money/offers to stay at Clemson. You know, considering we don't spend nearly enough, especially on our coaches salaries.
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CU Guru [1712]
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Yikes!
Apr 14, 2022, 11:22 AM
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Someone's delusional.
I guess unwarranted and undeserved contract extension can create that kind of delusion.
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Orange Blooded [3291]
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Duke and UNC
Apr 14, 2022, 11:59 AM
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Are feared (basketball) and hated in the ACC!
And that's all I'm gonna say about that!
Message was edited by: djones73®
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CU Guru [1868]
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“Everybody better be supportive of it”
Apr 14, 2022, 11:59 AM
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Been over brad’s comments a few times now. The thing that stays with me is that he seems to be dug in against fans. Could the fanbase do better at supporting the basketball program? Probably. But the only reason brad has a job is the fans. If the fans need to do a better job of supporting the program, then brad DEFINITELY needs to do a better job of appreciating the fans. The surliness just isn’t a good look. It’s not helping the situation at all. Talk about what you’ve done well. Acknowledge where you need to improve. And accept that fans are gonna judge. They’re entitled. They’re paying customers, and you make a ton of money on this deal.
I read on here a lot that Clemson doesn’t spend enough, and facilities and support staff aren’t enough. Maybe that’s true, but that’s a tough pill to swallow when the head hancho makes over $2.5m a year. To coach basketball. At Clemson. Maybe some fans’ expectations are unrealistic, but jeesh, seems like a pretty sweet gig. Managing the football program has got to be way more brutal.
If he’s enthusiastic, engaging and projects excitement about where we’re headed, the tenor around the fanbase and the reactions on this message board would be different. Gotta love the fans if you’re brad. Show some love, dude. Need to work on it. Sorry you think the criticism is unfair, but come on. Be better than it. You need to aim to bring people in, not drive them away. All the people you’re mad at are sitting in the stands or in front of their tv’s, paying for tickets or for cable so they can watch, and they’re cheering for your team to win. Just come on.
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Orange Blooded [2729]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 12:34 PM
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So, since Brad and Graham have been in the weeds together for a long time, this must explain the six men on the court after a timeout fiasco!
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Scout Team [176]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 2:28 PM
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I am sorry that he's out of touch, which he apparently is, but any Executive paid millions per year who does NOT deliver (1) just (1) championship or Best in Class over (12) years does not keep his job. What's different here ?
I could not care less what other programs think,
Just Win, Baby Win
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Orange Blooded [3369]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 2:39 PM
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Sounds to me like that rear end is getting hot
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Orange Blooded [2637]
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Twice in the top 65 in 5 years. Awesome.
Apr 14, 2022, 3:33 PM
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Average is the standard.
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Trainer [28]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 14, 2022, 3:51 PM
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So just wanted to go fact check what he said The number of ACC teams that went to NCAA tournaments in the last give years. So first off, there have only been four tournaments in the last five years, since 2020 was cancelled due to the pandemic. So he says that five teams have been to 3 in the last 5 years. And he reminded the media that Clemson has been to 2, as has Syracuse and Miami.
His figures don't add up.
UNC and VT have been to 4 in the last 5 years. 2022, 2021, 2019, 2018 (remember 2020 was canceled)
Duke, UVA, FSU, Syracuse have been to 3 in the last 5 years.
DUKE - 2022, 2019, 2018
UVA - 2021, 2019, 2018
FSU - 2021, 2019, 2018
Cuse - 2021, 2019, 2018
So Syracuse has been to 3, not 2 like he said.
Miami and Clemson have been to 2.
Miami - 2022, 2018
Clemson - 2021, 2018
The rest of the ACC has been to 1 or 0.
So there are 15 teams in the ACC, six of them have been to 3 or 4 tournaments in the last 5 years. So we are tied for 7th with Miami. 7th out of 15 is about as middle of the pack as you can get.
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CU Guru [1868]
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Wow
Apr 14, 2022, 5:45 PM
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Seemed hard to believe when I read the quote, but I assumed it was correct since brad presented it as research that proved his merit, and I haven’t seen an article that refuted it. If what you’re saying is true, then brad’s statements are really just . . . stunning . . . Like I can’t even believe it . . .
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All-TigerNet [12550]
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I'll bet it is admired. Kind of like
Apr 14, 2022, 5:27 PM
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I admire Dukes football program. A regular win.
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All-TigerNet [12550]
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So he's saying what he's done is
Apr 14, 2022, 5:31 PM
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Good enough, for a school like Clemson. And to prove it, people around the league agree. He needs to be fired for that mentality alone. Can his ###.
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All-TigerNet [12550]
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Beyond sad
Apr 14, 2022, 6:11 PM
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We lost a million close games. His words not mine. This is supposed to he good. We missed a lot of shots at the end and had a lot fall against us. We know, that's why we're losing.
All of that about three NCAAs had me thinking I was going to be surprised to find out that his teams had done so. But no. He brags that only five have done so and his team is just outside that group.
Why so many transfers out by players that are playing?
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Orange Blooded [2003]
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Lovers are admired
Apr 14, 2022, 6:36 PM
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Winners are respected
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CU Medallion [65748]
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Why would any opposing coach say something bad about a
Apr 14, 2022, 7:01 PM
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coach they hope we keep for a long time? That would be counterproductive.
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110%er [7191]
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Re: TNET: Brownell defends his program, says it's admired around the league
Apr 15, 2022, 8:06 AM
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And I am certain that the other schools around the League just love playing Clemson considering that in 12 seasons he has a 103-111(.481 % ) win- loss record and has never finished higher than T-3 in 2017-18.
What's not to admire about that if you are one of the other programs around the League?
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Lot o points [156089]
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Lmao—-he chooses 3 out of 5 as the standard to make
Apr 15, 2022, 8:35 AM
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His case, and then says “well, uh, we’ve been to two”
This is like the worst defense attorney ever.
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