Replies: 68
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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This could get ugly real quick.
Jul 10, 2020, 8:51 AM
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I know there has been a few posts on this topic in the last day, but I see people just brushing it aside and not making it a big deal.
For all you Liberatarians, Conservatives, and moderate democrats that can't bring yourself to vote for Trump, you really need to look long and hard.
Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders just announced their progressive democratic platform
- AOC would be co-chair of a climate task force along with corrupt swamp rat John Kerry - Net Zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2030 at all costs - Minimum wage to $15 - ICE and border patrol disbanded - Stop deportation for at least 100 days while a full scale audit of ICE and border patrol goes on - Investments in community policing (Seems like this is the beginning stages of defunding police) - Free healthcare to all illegal immigrants - Halts the migrant protection protocol which makes migrants remain in Mexico - Illegal immigrants that are already in the country would be given citizenship. 22 million people - For profit private charter schools would be banned - Reinstate title IX protections for transgender people
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/08/politics/joe-biden-bernie-sanders-task-force-recommendations/index.html
And that is just what they are telling us now.
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All-In [31907]
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Can you please point to where it states....
Jul 10, 2020, 9:05 AM
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"- ICE and border patrol disbanded"
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110%er [5694]
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Re: This could get ugly real quick.
Jul 10, 2020, 9:09 AM
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Sigh, agree it could get bad. I would guess even many of the Biden supporters might hope the Senate stays red.
If we are 100% blue after November, it will get crazy.
I need to figure out what I need to do with investments ASAP. If I knew Biden was going to be the man, I'd get 100% out of equities. But, since I lost my crystal ball, it will be a tough decision.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Read up, Flow.***
Jul 10, 2020, 9:09 AM
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All-In [31907]
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Wake the eff up CT88***
Jul 10, 2020, 9:13 AM
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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I'm woke!
Jul 10, 2020, 9:29 AM
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This is a C&P from the link listed at the bottom of this post.
"Democrats believe it is long past time to provide a roadmap to citizenship for the millions of undocumented workers who are an essential part of our economy and of the fabric of our nation. We will fast-track this process for those workers who have been essential to the pandemic response and recovery efforts, including health care workers, farmworkers, and others. We will also eliminate unfair barriers to naturalization, reduce application backlogs, and make our immigration processes faster, more efficient, and less costly. These reforms will strengthen our communities, our families, and our country..."
Page
If you give all immigrants citizenship what part of this does ICE play?
Also, they get healthcare paid for by you, sir.
https://joebiden.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/UNITY-TASK-FORCE-RECOMMENDATIONS.pdf
Read the agreement and tell me you're voting for Joe.
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All-In [31907]
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I get it...I don't agree with a lot of that...
Jul 10, 2020, 9:47 AM
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but at this point I just cannot support President Trump being the leader of our country. He's incompetent and has done/will do more harm to the conservative political movement than anything that a President Biden could do.
I just cannot accept a brazen liar, cheat, crass, and totally incompetent and narcissistic man to sit in the oval office any longer. I don't care what party he's in or what kind of judges he will nominate. Enough is enough for me....it's just not worth it. I don't want my kids thinking that is the type of man that anyone should hold respect for.
This "team at any cost" mentality is killing our country!
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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What, specifically has Trump done which was..
Jul 10, 2020, 9:53 AM
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incompetent?
I agree, Trump is far from being a conservative but imo, the overton window has moved so far to the left Trump is as conservative as America will ever again have. Let's stop bickering and go read the entire Biden/Sanders unity task force recommendations. Please keep in mind that Biden's people participated in this and please, please don't forget that Biden is closer to being a figurehead than a leader.
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All-In [31907]
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Is that really a serious question?...
Jul 10, 2020, 9:57 AM
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if so, I can try to take some time in a bit to reply.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Just give them to me one at a time instead of some...
Jul 10, 2020, 10:01 AM
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C&P from CNN, PBS or MSNBC, ok? Something which you observed?
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All-In [31907]
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You must have me confused with someone else...I don't...
Jul 10, 2020, 10:44 AM
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generally answer with C&P, except maybe to show specific instances of things.
Examples of failure of leadership/incompetence:
- Tax reform
[I posted on this topic on here many times before] Yes tax reform passed, but it was in spite of Trump, not because of him. Day after day, he put Speaker Ryan in tough spot after tough spot based on some stupid tweet or comment. It was so horribly handled out of the WH.
- Healthcare
There was no leadership or plan coming form the White House. Congress was left to flounder around and the GOP looked completely unprepared to address the issue. That starts at the top and given the history of this topic and how much Trump campaigned on it, the President should have been leading the efforts with a fully developed plan and then working for GOP leadship in Congress to sell it to the people. Instead, it was a disaster. Everyone wants to point to McCain being the problem, but the problem with a crap policy and crap execution.
- Trade
He started a trade war with China with seemingly no plan or forethought of execution. This one hit me and my company hard. He placed a tariff on all steel imports without making sure there was enough US supply to compensate in a timely manner. For the type of electrical grade steel we use, there was only 1 US supplier and they were already fully booked before all of this. So the net result was that our steel cost went up over 40%...25% tariff and 15% commodity pricing, almost overnight. The commodity price hit all of our competitors, but the tariff only impacted our US-based competitors, meanwhile our competitors out of Mexico and Canada were sitting pretty. His trade policy has been a boondoggle from the beginning with no end in site right now. I didn't vote for Trump, but I was hopefully he would be successful in reigning in China and putting the US on a more even playing field. For the most part, that has not happened...in large part due to the President's incompetence. He does one thing, then tweets another thing, then says another thing and no one seems to know what he wants. It is textbook poor leadership.
I could go on on the following topics, but I've run out of time for now:
- Covid - Racial issues - North Korea - Immigration - and just general image, example, and demeanor
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CU Medallion [56105]
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It wasn't even tax reform. It was a tax cut.
Jul 10, 2020, 10:56 AM
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The bill added thousands of pages to the tax code, which is the opposite of tax reform.
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All-In [31907]
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Well...that doesn't make any sense, but ok***
Jul 10, 2020, 10:56 AM
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CU Medallion [56105]
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Reform was supposed to simplify the tax code.
Jul 10, 2020, 11:03 AM
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Remember how we were gonna be able to file our taxes on a postcard?
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All-In [46825]
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Don't do it flow
Jul 10, 2020, 10:21 AM
[ in reply to Is that really a serious question?... ] |
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Trump supporters (and ESPECIALLY 88) are not concerned with facts and all he will do is strawman your argument and spin faster than a washing machine.
If they were concerned with facts they wouldn't be Trump supporters.
You will be wasting your time.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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I don't do strawmen arguments, FBC.
Jul 10, 2020, 10:38 AM
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You are borderline dishonest today.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I get it...I don't agree with a lot of that...
Jul 10, 2020, 11:10 AM
[ in reply to I get it...I don't agree with a lot of that... ] |
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Flow. I understand a lot of points you are making.
However, Joe Biden is a lot of the same things you hate about Trump. He's a liar, he is corrupt, he has been in government for 40 years and still blames Trump for America's problems.
He has said an enormous amount of racist statements, sold his office, and given in to China.
All Trump has done was create a record breaking economy (before coronavirus) that benefited ALL Americans. I mean everyone seems to say that Trump did such a bad job, but he hit numbers that even Obama said wasn't possible. Obama said Trump needed a magic wand.
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All-In [31907]
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You pronouncing him a corrupt liar doesn't make it so...
Jul 10, 2020, 11:19 AM
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I'm not a Biden fan per se, but he is not a liar or corrupt....at least not in a political sense.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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FLOTUS copies a former FLOTUS speech verbatim,
Jul 10, 2020, 12:19 PM
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but now you care about plagarism?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: FLOTUS copies a former FLOTUS speech verbatim,
Jul 10, 2020, 1:19 PM
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Are you serious? I was using it as an example how how he has lied and has been disingenuous.
All plagiarism is wrong. Can’t believe I have to say this. Sorry to trigger you
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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Please enlighten me as to how you believe I'm triggered.***
Jul 10, 2020, 1:24 PM
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: FLOTUS copies a former FLOTUS speech verbatim,
Jul 10, 2020, 1:19 PM
[ in reply to FLOTUS copies a former FLOTUS speech verbatim, ] |
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Are you serious? I was using it as an example how how he has lied and has been disingenuous.
All plagiarism is wrong. Can’t believe I have to say this. Sorry to trigger you
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Rock Defender [54]
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All-In [31907]
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The "team" I associate myself with is the GOP...
Jul 10, 2020, 11:33 AM
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I'm going against that "team" because I think President Trump is a net negative for the country. I don't hate him, nor do I just assume everything he does is wrong (quite the opposite really).
If Sanders was the dem nominee, I'm not sure what I would do...I guess go 3rd party...glad I don't have to make that choice.
But I do feel Trump is bad for our country...for many reasons.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: The "team" I associate myself with is the GOP...
Jul 10, 2020, 11:44 AM
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All-In [46825]
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Hmm what you said vs another 4 years of Trump?
Jul 10, 2020, 11:48 AM
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Hmm what you said vs another 4 years of Trump?
Jul 10, 2020, 11:55 AM
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All-In [31907]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: Sorry, but it is not clear that Biden has changed....
Jul 10, 2020, 11:59 AM
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All-In [31907]
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Holy crap, he specifically said he DOESN'T support....
Jul 10, 2020, 12:13 PM
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defunding the police:
https://apnews.com/598cefa02edc5d367248f4e1e488531d
Are you talking about the interview with Ady Barkan? Good lawd man...watch the whole interview and not snipet prepared for you by someone else. He was clearly talking about surplus military equipment...and I agree with that position. We have militarized the police too much over the past 10 years.
I'm pretty sure Biden proposed federal grants for community policing initiatives (which I don't support btw because this shouldn't be a federal issue at all but that's another point). That is additional funding for police.
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Legend [17297]
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Thanks - All good reasons to vote Biden!
Jul 10, 2020, 9:19 AM
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Directionally many of those positions are movement in the right direction. And as all intelligent people know from history, party platforms never get fully implemented and always get moderated through the legislative process.
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CU Medallion [58433]
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Many would strongly disagree,***
Jul 10, 2020, 9:22 AM
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Legend [17297]
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Ain’t that what American democracy is all about?
Jul 10, 2020, 9:27 AM
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BTW Democrats are somewhat inept at implementing agendas. So any movement is more of a course correction rather than a hard turn left.
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CU Medallion [58433]
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American democracy is all about the people having a voice
Jul 10, 2020, 10:19 AM
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which includes disagreement. Any movement is a movement, and some "corrections" are hard turns one way the other.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Thanks - All good reasons to vote Biden!
Jul 10, 2020, 9:26 AM
[ in reply to Thanks - All good reasons to vote Biden! ] |
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That's why i didn't reference this post to you. Hardcore liberals are a lost cause.
People that are moderates that can't bring themselves to vote for Trump. This is what you risk.
Wish Trump would #### and let Biden and the democratic party hurt themselves. That's what they have been doing and typically do.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Associate AD [828]
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It's a Political Ploy
Jul 10, 2020, 9:39 AM
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Keep in mind that this is just a proposed platform. I believe its primary purpose is to get Bernie supporters onboard with Joe (to beat Trump). I don't believe most of these items will be passed and implemented.
Think of it as a "Mexico will pay for the wall". It was a campaign slogan to get votes. Trump knew that Mexico would never pay for the wall, but he repeated it at every rally and debate.
Regardless, I'm not voting for another 4 years of narcissistic Trump
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Trump wasn't my first choice.
Jul 10, 2020, 9:47 AM
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I never expected him to cut taxes, renegotiate trade or do half of what he promised. He surprised me and clearly his 400 miles of border wall surprised everyone. Will he finish it? Yep, if he gets a pub house with enough balls to fund the project he will.
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All-In [34113]
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The 400 miles of border wall is especially surprising
Jul 10, 2020, 10:01 AM
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because he hasn't actually built 400 miles of border wall.
P.S. The border is 1900 miles.
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
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Yes, Spooneye.
Jul 10, 2020, 10:06 AM
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I am fully aware that some of the new wall replace existing wall which wasn't working to prevent border crossings. I'm also aware that the full length of the border doesn't need a wall due to being most impractical and almost impossible to traverse.
None of that eludes me so I insist that he began the wall in parts where most border jumpers crossed. Nothing you said contradicts my point.
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All-In [34113]
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He hasn't even replaced, let alone added, 400 miles.
Jul 10, 2020, 12:17 PM
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Which is why your statement is false.
Do you know how many new miles he added? And how many miles he replaced?
Do. You. Know. The. Actual. Numbers?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Re: He hasn't even replaced, let alone added, 400 miles.
Jul 10, 2020, 12:20 PM
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All-In [34113]
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Re: He hasn't even replaced, let alone added, 400 miles.
Jul 10, 2020, 12:23 PM
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Cool story bro. CT1988 thanks you for distracting from my actual question, which I assume you don't know the answer to either.
CT1988 said 400 miles. He's wrong.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: It's a Political Ploy
Jul 10, 2020, 9:47 AM
[ in reply to It's a Political Ploy ] |
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I understand that politicians don't always keep their campaign promises, but I think Mexico paying for the wall is much different.
He is still putting up the wall and his intent was to get them to pay for it. He just didn't succeed.
This is a released platform. I'm going to take him at his word even though he will probably forget by next week!
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Standout [347]
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He didn’t succeed because it was a ridiculous desire.
Jul 10, 2020, 12:09 PM
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It never had a chance of succeeding, but he touted it anyways. Just like most of the stuff on this list have no actual chance of being implemented. Which is why it doesn’t worry me, even though I disagree with most of it.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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I get hating Trump, but this "I'm voting for a Democrat
Jul 10, 2020, 10:11 AM
[ in reply to It's a Political Ploy ] |
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because I really hope they won't do what they say they're going to do" is really bizarre to me.
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Associate AD [828]
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Re: I get hating Trump, but this "I'm voting for a Democrat
Jul 10, 2020, 10:42 AM
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It's more than hope. I see the platform as a way to prevent Bernie supports from staying home in November. I'm an independent that in recent years has voted mostly D. I vote on the person, not the party. BTW - A party that enables and cowers to this clown is not getting my vote.
Trump is the most amoral president in modern history - by far. He's a con man. I'm not voting for a man that told Howard Stern it's okay to refer to his daughter as "piece of a$$". And to say on The View, "If Ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps I would be dating her". The list goes on and on; it's well documented
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All-In [31907]
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Biden isn't going to do anything, he's an empty suit
Jul 10, 2020, 10:53 AM
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What you're hoping for is that whoever is pulling his strings aren't too radical. And given who he apparently intends to put in various positions, as well as events over the past month or so, I don't see how anybody could be too confident in that.
Best you can say is, "well hopefully they won't be able to do that".
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All-In [31907]
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I don't agree at all that he's an empty suit and...
Jul 10, 2020, 10:59 AM
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will be a puppet in office. I don't believe there is evidence for that over his career.
However, that is certainly the latest narrative that the Trump campaign is trying to build, since their previous tactics clearly aren't working.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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Have you not watched him lately?
Jul 10, 2020, 11:02 AM
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That is not a man who will be making big decisions, I'm sorry.
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All-In [31907]
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Well, to each their own....
Jul 10, 2020, 11:14 AM
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I don't see it that way
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Well, to each their own....
Jul 10, 2020, 11:19 AM
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How do you not see it that way. I mean these are just facts.
-Joe Biden has made a ton of racist statements. He has sided and befriended segregationists - He is by definition a pedophile. - His son got and 80k/month job on the board of a ukrainian gas company. His son also got a huge deal from China - He has said that China wasn't a threat and the CCP is "good folks"
- Trump's economy broke records in pretty much all metrics.
If you don't see it that way you aren't paying attention
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All-In [31907]
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I see that you might be a nutjob...I see that just fine...
Jul 10, 2020, 11:36 AM
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Biden is a pedophile? Do you see yourself man?
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Oculus Spirit [81925]
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"- He is by definition a pedophile."
Jul 10, 2020, 11:39 AM
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Right?
If Biden is a pedophile, hate to see what Trump is.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: I see that you might be a nutjob...I see that just fine...
Jul 10, 2020, 11:51 AM
[ in reply to I see that you might be a nutjob...I see that just fine... ] |
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Biden is a pedophile? Do you see yourself man?
What do you call sniffing little girls hair and touching them inappropriately without consent? What would you call that?
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All-In [31907]
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I would call it bull&^%^***
Jul 10, 2020, 11:57 AM
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All-In [34113]
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Everyone ready for 4 more months of this?***
Jul 10, 2020, 9:56 AM
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All-In [31907]
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It's going to be a total sheet show and as Pres Trump...
Jul 10, 2020, 10:02 AM
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gets more desperate, it will continue to get worse.
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Oculus Spirit [79429]
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lol, are Democrats going to continue pushing even crazier
Jul 10, 2020, 10:07 AM
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policies or something, or what are you saying here?
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Oculus Spirit [93681]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 95428
Joined: 12/25/09
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Oculus Spirit [83131]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80162
Joined: 11/29/99
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Just a ploy to get the vote out from Bernie supporters
Jul 10, 2020, 10:55 AM
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who didn’t turn out in 2016. Hardly any chance of any meaningful legislation coming from that.
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All-In [46825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30733
Joined: 8/11/15
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I understand why he's at least incorporating
Jul 10, 2020, 11:01 AM
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these into his platform, but he doesn't need to do anything more than that task force.
Keep in mind. Bernie supporters didn't even vote for Bernie in the primaries.
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Standout [347]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 1062
Joined: 7/1/19
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There’s a good chance AOC will be back bartending after this year.***
Jul 10, 2020, 12:15 PM
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All-In [46825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30733
Joined: 8/11/15
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No she won't
Jul 10, 2020, 12:26 PM
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she will win her reelection easily.
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Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
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I personally hope so
Jul 10, 2020, 12:32 PM
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All-In [46825]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 30733
Joined: 8/11/15
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You're right. Yall desperately needed
Jul 10, 2020, 12:35 PM
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a boogeyman when the evil Hillary droning started losing power.
Luckily yall were able to give a junior congresswoman with very little power enough air time to become one of the most influential progressives this country has seen since FDR.
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Standout [347]
TigerPulse: 84%
Posts: 1062
Joined: 7/1/19
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There’s a good chance AOC will be back bartending after this year.***
Jul 10, 2020, 12:15 PM
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