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CU Medallion [58448]
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Are you for open borders?
Jul 14, 2019, 11:56 AM
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Disgusting - Dems and liberal media are for open borders, plain and simple. Just watched Lib idiot Jonathan Karl interview Director of Citizenship and Immigration Services Ken Cuccinelli. Cuccinelli explained the the border crisis and terrible conditions the immigrant detainees face are not the fault of the U.S. or his department or ICE, but simply because the system is overwhelmed, and congress has failed to provide adequate funding in response. Karl, indignant over such an outrageous suggestion ( ), felt that the U.S. and the Trump administration are to blame, and should immediately release all of these illegals since we can't provide better conditions for them. In other words, open borders with no consequenses. Cuccinelli explained that was the wrong answer, to rerward people who are swamping or border with no regard for us or our laws, and doing so would only encourage more illegal or fraudeulent entry. He pointed out that the vast majority of those claiming asylum are doing so fraudeulently, with no intent of returning for hearings once released. Furthermore, this clogs up the system for legitimate asylum seekers.
Much of Mexico and Central America is in turmoil. The liberal solution seems to be that the U.S. has a moral obligation to open the border and allow an endless stream of people into our country, and, if necessary, have taxpayers provide hostel accomodations for them from now on.
How can this (open borders) be a serious argument, advanced by actual Americans? How stupid have we become? We've seen this coming for a long time; politicians on both sides have been afraid to address it for decades. Now it's a transparent, shameless vote/power grab for Dems - nothing more. I understand all of the arguments about cheap labor and the economy and all of that; but now it all comes down to one thing - you're either for 100% open borders, or you are for sensible immigration policy which includes tight border security and controlled immigration.
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Legend [19956]
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No, I think Dems are making a mistake***
Jul 14, 2019, 12:02 PM
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Are you for open borders?
Jul 14, 2019, 12:08 PM
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No. Dems lost 2020 on thisnissue alone. Sad how out of touch they are.
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All-TigerNet [12098]
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Cutting aid to those countries has made the situation worse
Jul 14, 2019, 12:19 PM
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and basically amplified this crisis for political purposes.
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CU Medallion [58448]
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So, are you for open borders?***
Jul 14, 2019, 12:20 PM
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All-TigerNet [12098]
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Not at all
Jul 14, 2019, 12:25 PM
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I’m for restoring aid to those Central American countries and trying to solve the source issues that are driving the immigrants here in the first place. I don’t have the numbers but I’d bet meaningful aid packages and humanitarian support would be cheaper than a wall, for profit detention centers, and a beefed up ICE budget.
All of that just won’t fit on a bumper sticker and it sure won’t line the pockets of government contractors.
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CU Medallion [58448]
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Thanks - fair enough. Until all of that can happen, do you
Jul 14, 2019, 12:40 PM
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think that the U.S. is obligated to provide accomodations for all who enter illegally and or abuse our asylum system? Which, of course, amounts to open borders. Just want to be sure I understand.
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All-TigerNet [12098]
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Bottom line they need to be treated humanely
Jul 14, 2019, 12:53 PM
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We need to figure out how to speed up the processing.
The profit motive needs to be taken out of the equation.
For those that are refused asylum, agreements need to be in place for where they will go.
As far as open borders, the current policy of randomly dropping off bus loads of them with no money or documentation in various city centers sounds pretty open to me (and just asking for trouble by increasing their desperation) That’s not right either.
I think getting Mexico to help slow the flow is a good first step, can this work in the countries further south? I don’t know.
I’m not an immigration or foreign policy expert so that’s all I’ve got.
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CU Medallion [58448]
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It is indeed a crisis.
Jul 14, 2019, 1:18 PM
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I'm no expert either. It's clear, however, that many liberals/dems/media types are using this crisis to force a false and wrong choice: for the sake of humanity, we must open the borders. I think that's wrong.
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Oculus Spirit [93690]
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So do the rest of us.
Jul 14, 2019, 4:13 PM
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I do not believe one single dem on this board is happy with their party's position on this issue. None of them want open borders but they'd rather see 10 million cross without going through the traditional vetting process than to agree with Trump.
Our dem friends are an obstinate lot but they will end up voting for Biden.
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CU Medallion [58448]
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We are quibbling over language - maybe I should say
Jul 14, 2019, 5:04 PM
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many Dems and libs "support" open borders, which is what really matters, whether they really want it in their hearts or not, and that's what is important.
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Oculus Spirit [93690]
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You can't gauge the pulse of a party by watching the news.
Jul 14, 2019, 5:15 PM
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I'd guess that 75% of dems do not want open borders. However, the lesser percentage of them are making all the noise. None of them will admit that Trump is right, the party would excommunicate them. I just wanted to point out the issue you're having here trying to discuss this issue with them.
They will claim to disagree with Trump, you and other pubs but they are trying to spin it as something it isn't. That's why they bring up separating children, no toothpaste and other obvious horsehockey distractions.
Imo, there's no one here to argue with about open borders. Most will admit you're right without admitting your right. Frustrating but when you're as right as you are about this you just have to let being right console you, friend.
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Orange Blooded [3520]
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This...***
Jul 14, 2019, 2:48 PM
[ in reply to Not at all ] |
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Oculus Spirit [93690]
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Not even close to the truth.
Jul 14, 2019, 4:07 PM
[ in reply to Not at all ] |
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I have another post on this thread which accurately list the chronology of the caravans and Trump pulling aid to those nations.
Your premise is that we should pay those nations to stop their people from crossing our border. What are they, hired help or are we paying protection money? What if they want a raise and insist that if we don't double or triple their aid they will turn hoards of their people loose on our soil?
Any American who thinks shifting the authority, responsibility and accountability of our border security to another nation needs to use his head for something besides a hat rack.
sov·er·eign·ty /?säv(?)r?n(t)?/ Learn to pronounce noun supreme power or authority.
"how can we hope to wrest sovereignty away from the oligarchy and back to the people?" synonyms: jurisdiction, supremacy, dominion, power, ascendancy, suzerainty, tyranny, hegemony, domination, sway, predominance, authority, control, influence, rule; More the authority of a state to govern itself or another state. "national sovereignty"
synonyms: autonomy, independence, self-government, self-rule, home rule, self-legislation, self-determination, nonalignment, freedom
"full West German sovereignty was achieved in 1955" a self-governing state.
plural noun: sovereignties
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CU Medallion [58448]
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Well put. It's never our obligation to fix another country's
Jul 14, 2019, 5:25 PM
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problems "or else". I'm all for using diplomatic and economic channels to facilitate positive change and promote liberty and prosperity; we have the blueprint and we should share it. That's the way it's done. That does not include compromising our sovereignty or taking responsibility for another country's corruption and turmoil. It is absurd for us to have to apologize and be portrayed as the bad guy for securing our border in the face of mass illegal migration, or not providing nice enough accomodations for them. It is a farce.
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Oculus Spirit [93690]
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That is not how it happened.
Jul 14, 2019, 3:57 PM
[ in reply to Cutting aid to those countries has made the situation worse ] |
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Trump warned that this would happen while the first few caravans were gathering at the southern Mexican border. When dems accused him of racism and 'manufacturing a crisis,' he requested the governments of those three countries who are exporting their citizenry work toward solving the internal problems there.
They basically told Trump to go pound sand. His position was and is that if they are not going to willingly cooperate with America on the problem he wasn't going to willingly give them another penny. That disagreement was not a knee jerk reaction it was a last ditch effort to use what little power he had over the caravans to stop or slow them down. Claiming this is Trump's fault might work in a circle of dems and MSM hacks but it will only work when he reminds America what happened, how it happened and who is at fault for not preventing it.
Now all hell is breaking loose due to exactly what Trump foretold back in Jan of this year. He wasn't being a racist and he did not manufacture this crisis of conditions at our border. He warned Americans it would happen and plainly said we are not capable of handing this vast number of immigrants if congress didn't work with him to prevent it.
If you want to point a finger at one person you might find Obama and ask him WTPH he was thinking when he signed an EO which changed the asylum requirements to include anyone who was in fear of gang violence or even domestic violence. You might want to step up on the 9th circus and ask why Obama had the power to make that change and Trump did not.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: Are you for open borders?
Jul 14, 2019, 1:55 PM
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Stop! No one is for "open borders" no one. It's a phoney far right talking point. It doesn't exist, it's not true. It's bullship!
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CU Guru [1071]
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Re: Are you for open borders?
Jul 14, 2019, 2:06 PM
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Is raising your hand saying that illegal immigrants should get taxpayer paid medical care raise the question that it appears some individuals are for open borders?
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CU Medallion [58448]
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No, it's NOT BS. It's exactly what Karl was suggesting
Jul 14, 2019, 2:07 PM
[ in reply to Re: Are you for open borders? ] |
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this morning. EXACTLY, unequivocally, and proudly. He doesn't call it that, but that's exactly what it is. Allowing people freely into the country with no repercussion and no attempt to prevent it. In the name of humane treatment, of course.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: No, it's NOT BS. It's exactly what Karl was suggesting
Jul 14, 2019, 2:11 PM
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But that's the point, you cite ONE GUY and suggest open borders is a real thing.
It's not, nobody with a brain wants open borders. It's just not true.
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CU Guru [1071]
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Re: No, it's NOT BS. It's exactly what Karl was suggesting
Jul 14, 2019, 2:14 PM
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Can we quote you with the no one with a brain comment in the future when several candidates move to that stated position?
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Legend [15492]
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Re: No, it's NOT BS. It's exactly what Karl was suggesting
Jul 14, 2019, 2:31 PM
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You absolutely can, not a single candidate with a brain is for open borders. Not separating children from parents isn't a desire for open borders. Imagine the effect of that on a 3 yr old, a 5 yr old? The United States harms children as a policy? Really?
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CU Guru [1071]
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Re: No, it's NOT BS. It's exactly what Karl was suggesting
Jul 14, 2019, 2:39 PM
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Are we a country of laws or not? A person who commits a crime and has a three year old goes to prision if that is the sentence by the judge. We have to have laws that we follow.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: No, it's NOT BS. It's exactly what Karl was suggesting
Jul 14, 2019, 3:02 PM
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Are we a country of laws or not? A person who commits a crime and has a three year old goes to prision if that is the sentence by the judge. We have to have laws that we follow.
That is correct. But a person has to be convicted of a crime first. We are a nation of laws and don't separate children from their parents upon being charged.
If you are accused of a crime the govt. doesn't automatically take your children. We have due process in this country precisely because we're a nation of laws. The Govt. must indict you, you have a right to a trial and a lawyer.
Further, the punishment must fit the crime. If they lock you up for a parking ticket, one could easily make the argument "well if he didn't want to go to jail then he shouldn't have parked there"
See how that works?
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CU Guru [1071]
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Re: No, it's NOT BS. It's exactly what Karl was suggesting
Jul 14, 2019, 3:33 PM
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They are not US citizens and get the rights that a US citizen has. That has been confirmed in the courts over and over again. They do not get constitutional rights, case closed.
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Legend [15492]
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Re: No, it's NOT BS. It's exactly what Karl was suggesting
Jul 14, 2019, 3:15 PM
[ in reply to Re: No, it's NOT BS. It's exactly what Karl was suggesting ] |
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Are we a country of laws or not? A person who commits a crime and has a three year old goes to prision if that is the sentence by the judge. We have to have laws that we follow.
Trump violated Trump campaign finance laws by allowing his lawyer to pay off a Pron Star and then paid him back through his corporation which is a separate legal entity. All un-reported.
If we are a nation of laws, why isn't Trump being charged?
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CU Guru [1071]
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Re: No, it's NOT BS. It's exactly what Karl was suggesting
Jul 14, 2019, 4:02 PM
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I suggest you call law enforcement and ask that he be charged.
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Oculus Spirit [93690]
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Why wasn't that a big deal when Obama instituted it?
Jul 14, 2019, 4:26 PM
[ in reply to Re: No, it's NOT BS. It's exactly what Karl was suggesting ] |
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Don't hand me your fake outrage, virtue signaling and self righteous indignation. Fake news, fake Americans faking virtue and putting their hypocrisy on display.
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CU Medallion [58448]
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110%er [9174]
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Boot meet Butter's Nutz
Jul 14, 2019, 5:17 PM
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-PhD
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110%er [6677]
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Legend [19956]
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Are you for open borders?
Jul 14, 2019, 10:17 PM
[ in reply to Re: Are you for open borders? ] |
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Yes a lot of Dems are basically for open borders.
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Oculus Spirit [93690]
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No one here is for open borders.
Jul 14, 2019, 4:22 PM
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Most of the dems in congress are not really for open borders either. It's just that they would all rather be strung up by the nutsak than agree with Trump.
He has turned them into fiscal conservatives, budget hawks if you want. He's also got them pulling for terrorist group Antifa and now he has them against knowing how many citizens are in America. They talk like they are ready to tear down our nation if that's what it takes to win.
Most of the chit that comes out of their faces is just big talk. The dem leaders know good and well that the positions they are assuming to support their candidate will destroy their party. Their butts will be backing off most of the chit they are talking now.
Unfortunately for them, Americans will not forget how they let the tail wag the dog and turned their party into the USSR's 1936 communist party. Trump won't let anyone forget this.
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CU Medallion [58448]
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I agree to the extent they will oppose Trump no matter
Jul 14, 2019, 4:56 PM
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how absurd it is. Yet, clearly, some of the dem candidates and many of their constituents are for open borders, even if they deny it or call it something else. This whole thing about the current crisis is a huge load of bullshite and they know it. The system is simply overwhelmed because people are coming here in droves. People are coming here in droves because they know they won't be prevented from entering the country, and they know they will be released at some point into our country, with no repercussions. Our government has a moral obligation and a legal responsibility to stop that dead in it's tracks. I know their countries suck giant donkey balls and I understand that they want to escape, but the numbers fleeing to the U.S. would be slashed to almost nothing if they knew they couldn't get in, and if they knew they would not be allowed to stay if they did.
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Oculus Spirit [93690]
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Imo, probably only AOC's crowd is really for open...
Jul 14, 2019, 5:04 PM
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borders. They are the only voice in the dem party because this is about getting those youth to the polls for the primaries with hopes that they won't change their minds about voting in the general election.
Biden will win and come scrambling back to the middle and all those young people won't vote for an old white man. I make it sound gloom and doom for dems but it's like Trump told the minority voters, 'What have you got to lose?!' They have nothing to lose because they can't win and the leaders know it.
Dems are shooting the moon while the pubs have the bich, DJT.
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CU Medallion [58448]
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AOC, Warren, and Castro, are already on the record, and it
Jul 14, 2019, 5:35 PM
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goes for anybody who puts fixing the problems in Mexico and Central America above securing our border. And yes, they are two different things, with different priorities.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Are you for open borders?
Jul 14, 2019, 9:45 PM
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Man. Republicans simply don't live in reality anymore. It's wild to see.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Are you for open borders?
Jul 14, 2019, 10:20 PM
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You dont live in reality. It's idiots like yourself that are making it so we will likely lose in 2020. You dont understand the.people.is this country. You live in a naive ignorant bubble, yet ypu think you have your finger on the pulse of this nation. Youre lost.
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Are you for open borders?
Jul 14, 2019, 10:25 PM
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Lol! Republicans say Democrats can't win and you swallow it.
It's really a shame that you have such a small opinion of America that you think "Let's not have concentration camps," is a losing position. Pathetic. I happen to think America does have the capability of being great.
Trump can't win without new voters. There's absolutely zero evidence that he's bringing new voters to the table. Not one.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Are you for open borders?
Jul 15, 2019, 12:03 AM
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You don't see the forest through the trees. You're thinking is why we have Trump. You don't get it.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Are you for open borders?
Jul 15, 2019, 12:07 AM
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Also cu17, describe the conditions you would put these immigrants in. What would your facilities look like? Hotel rooms maybe?
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CU Guru [1405]
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Re: Are you for open borders?
Jul 15, 2019, 6:39 AM
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Lol what a dumb question. I'm going to vote for a President who won't invent an asylum crisis and won't have concentration camps.
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Are you for open borders?
Jul 15, 2019, 8:48 AM
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I am voting Dem too. You never answered the question. Never asked who are you voting for. That said, there is an asylum crisis. It's fact. That's known by conservatives and liberals generally. How would you house the people differently? Describe how you would handle the massive amount of asylum seekers.
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Legend [16877]
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No, I'm not for open borders, any more than any
Jul 15, 2019, 7:06 AM
[ in reply to Re: Are you for open borders? ] |
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Other country is. I'm for the very policies that have largely governed immigration since this country was founded...the very policies for why the very vast majority of us are here today.
Immigration policy, by and large, is a reflection of a nation's ability, or inability, to: 1. Enforce it's policies, ably and 2. Reflects the socio-economic...and political environment in that country and 3. That nation's desire to transfer its' 'problems' elsewhere.
To suggest immigration policy has not worked in the US for many decades, belies our presence. To suggest the US doesn't assist less-fortunate nations belies the fact that, after numerous wars, globally, native tongues continue to speak. The 'made in 'name a country' products on our store shelves certainly suggests the economic impact the US has on those many nations.
When is enough, enough?
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