Replies: 12
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CU Medallion [65498]
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Last night just reinforced something that I had already
Apr 6, 2021, 8:38 AM
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suspected. The "Biggest" Big Time college basketball is no longer played in the ACC. Gonzaga vs UCLA, then Baylor vs Gonzaga. Either of those games was so far above the caliber of play in the ACC this year as to be laughable. When did this shift happen? Easy to say, "This year", since all the North Carolina schools had down years. But, the prestige of the ACC has been slipping for awhile before that, I think.
College basketball as a whole has never been the same since the dawn of the "One and Dones". But, the Final Four this year showed that, at its highest level, it is still one of, if not the most, exciting sports events to watch.
Now, let's see some college baseball that is on that same lofty performance plane. Go Tigers!
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All-In [48078]
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Re: Last night just reinforced something that I had already
Apr 6, 2021, 8:44 AM
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Seems like college football is southern and midwest stronghold and that college basketball is moving to the west due to their college football sucking possibly.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Last night just reinforced something that I had already
Apr 6, 2021, 9:50 AM
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I am not worried.
First, it isn't uncommon for the ACC (or any conference really) to have a down year. For all of the "Big10" strength this year, they really did not have a deep run unless you consider Mich being knocked out at the Elite 8. The Pac12 did really well this year, but they have only field a final four team twice in the last 10 years.
The ACC "only" fields a final 4 team about 1/2 the time. 2011-2014 did not field an ACC team in the final 4, then the next five years, we field 4 of 5 and won 3 with 3 different teams. It was hit and miss in the 00s but when we did field a final 4 team, we generally won (save GT). The 90s saw similar run of one team (like Duke in the late 90s and early 90s but disappearing in the mid 90s) stringing together a run but the conference struggled otherwise. UNC had similar runs but the rest of the conference was not making it to the final 4 like the 80s which fielded 4/5 different teams - UVA Duke UNC NCState GT
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All-In [44050]
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So what you're saying is that it's hard for one conference
Apr 6, 2021, 11:52 AM
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to consistently dominate a sport, given the fact that there are many good programs out there.
Winning is hard. Winning consistently is even harder.
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110%er [8538]
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Re: Last night just reinforced something that I had already
Apr 6, 2021, 9:58 AM
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As a total league, the Big 12 and Big 10 have been ahead of the ACC for years. Over the last few years, UVA and Duke have been our best teams. Kids want to play where they can run, gun and have fun and that does not describe the ACC.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Last night just reinforced something that I had already
Apr 6, 2021, 10:07 AM
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B12 - 5 Final Four Appearances in the last 10 years. 1 Championship. B10 - 8 Final Four Appearances in the last 10 years. 0 Championship. (FYI, Mich State accounts for 4 of them)
ACC - 6 Final Four Appearances in the last 10 years. 4 Championship (three teams).
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CU Medallion [65498]
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Re: Last night just reinforced something that I had already
Apr 6, 2021, 10:16 AM
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The ACC for years was the Big Two (Dook and the Tar Holes, in whatever order floats your boat.) Virginia is a recent interloper. A far cry from the heyday when all four NC schools, Maryland (Lefty Drizzell), Georgia Tech (Bobby Cremins) were competitive every year, and others like Clemson, Virginia, and yes, South Carolina, were at times competitive as well.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Last night just reinforced something that I had already
Apr 6, 2021, 10:44 AM
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The last 10 years have been the most turbulent/non-Duke/UNC of any era of the conference. Still Duke/UNC have notched multiple NCs and 1/2 of the tourney wins.
The conference has always been two schools. With the exception of Duke's decline in the 70s or UNC early 00s, it has been really stable. But not all four schools have been competitive at the same time - normally it is three in some combination. Plus it is easier when the four schools are 1/2 the conference since the 70s. Really, you are bemoaning the loss of NC State as a National power and Wake internally.
Otherwise, UNC and Duke have basically always been the two (if not UNC/NCSU)
60s - Duke/UNC won 7/10 ACC titles (Wake 2 NC State 1) 70s - Duke/UNC won 5/10 ACC titles (Wake 2, NC State 1, Coot, UVA) 80s - Duke/UNC won 6/10 ACC titles (NCSU 2, GT 1, MD 1) 90s - Duke/UNC won 6/10 ACC titles (GT 2 WF 2) 00s - Duke/UNC won 9/10 ACC titles (MD 1) 10s - Duke/UNC won 5/10 ACC titles (Miami, ND, 2 UVA)
I think that Duke/UNC have more titles than everyone else combined. And if I look up the "runner up" the year Duke/UNC did not win it, I bet they were #2.
What you are missing is a period in which a very few years had Duke/UNC being historically strong (but with down years like Duke in '96) and an interloper being a decent challenger. The best case for this was starting in the early 80s (pre/earlyk Coach K) and a declining Smith. This was brought on by changes in the "dance" with the expanded field making talent easier to opt into mid-tier schools and you saw an expansion of a lot of non-traditional powers then. Such as Houston, Georgetown, Villanova, Seton hall, NC State, UofL, Arky, UNLV, UMass. Really, it always is Duke/UNC and THEN someone like Virginia now, or Maryland under Williams, or Odem, Cremmins, Lefty, Valvano. During this period, Duke/UNC "only" won the Tourney about 5 of 10, they were still notching NC by the early 90s but it wasn't like they were not dominating.
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110%er [6825]
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Re: Last night just reinforced something that I had already
Apr 6, 2021, 10:09 AM
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And, and how has run-and-gun not been UNC/Roy Williams (and even a lesser extend modern Duke) style. Really, UVA was the first to crack this code that a defense + 3pt shooting is best to handle the Duke/UNC domination.
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Legend [16136]
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It took a big hit when Carolina had to start doing what the
Apr 6, 2021, 11:55 AM
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rest of the conference has been having to do since the 50s...actually attend classes
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110%er [6825]
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Re: It took a big hit when Carolina had to start doing what the
Apr 6, 2021, 2:29 PM
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You can't have enough TU for that comment -
Prior to the scandal's investigation.
33-7 33-7 26-12 24-10
Averaging 29 wins a season
Since the investigation. 18-11 14-19 29-7 26-11
Averaging 21.75 wins a season.
They only way you could not see a 25% drop in wins per season is if you happen to have a degree from UNC earned between the mid 90s and early 2010s
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Legend [16136]
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Don't tell @tarheeledtiger***
Apr 6, 2021, 2:45 PM
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Orange Blooded [4679]
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Replies: 12
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