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Topic: For all of those that want an indepth look at S&C
Replies: 24   Last Post: Jan 26, 2012 12:06 PM by: tigerking79®
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For all of those that want an indepth look at S&C

[2]
Posted: Jan 26, 2012 8:32 AM
 

http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2012/1/26/2707898/on-clemsons-s-c-program-and-our-problems-with-batson

I know a lot of people on this site don't like STS, but this article is fair and clearly states what we do well as opposed to what actually works well in CFB.


i find very little fair about it. nothing wrong with having

[5]
Posted: Jan 26, 2012 8:47 AM
 

an agenda or being slanted in support of it, but i wouldn't use the word 'fair'.

One of the hottest topics in the realm of Clemson Football over the last 24 months has been long time Clemson Strength and Conditioning coach Joey Batson. The hyperbole is out of control and there is a great deal of misinformation out there and it is my hope to bring a little clarity to the situation and educate the Clemson fan base on what Joey adheres to as well as what I believe would be best for the present and future of Clemson Football.

this is self-fulfilling at best; the topic was created by them, driven by them and has been carried on by them ad nauseum. who knows, they may be right, but i'll let those in charge of the program decide it, but until then, nothing fair about either agenda.

from the thompson article on the front page: He is explosive, strong, and very competitive.

wonder where he developed those?


DSP***


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 9:15 AM
 




DSP, do you know if STS is a spinoff from the AOC?


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 9:17 AM
 

Seems like the same web format and same agenda.

I won't go over there anymore as I don't want to increase their hit count.


i don't surf, but the message and formatting seems


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 9:24 AM
 

consistent a lot of times.

i wonder where the phillip price numbers fall? walk-on te[6-5, 235 as a frosh], now 315 and an all-acc performer. wow, that's 80 fricking pounds and i'm afraid if you shot him, you'd just #### him off.

i want to believe that STS and AOC have clemson's best interest at heart, but too many times they both seem to have an aze to grind.


Re: i don't surf, but the message and formatting seems


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 9:47 AM
 

He might be the exception to the rule. I also contend that Baston can't be the whole problem. If player's truly have the want that Price does then they'll do the things to stay in shape. The problem is that at teh end of the year a lot of our players had a lot more fat on them then they did at the begining of the year. Just look at Tajh. Looked cut our of marble at the weigh in but had a bit of a gut at the end of the season and Tajh was one of the most hard working players we had on our team this year.


there are others drobins, he just jumped to mind and none of


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 10:12 AM
 

what's written takes into consideration a person's met or 'habits' or as you say, 'want'.

price has been singled out as one of 'the' guys by morris, freeman and walker as well. they all made all-acc this year.

i agree with you about it, you don't roll over at ncst and then pummel vpi in the acccg.

heart isn't built in the weight room and that same 'dedication'/want/heart is brought there from outside, not developed there.

i don't like to question people's heart, but i think you have guys like chavis, moore that have a ton of it, but have been asked to play out of position and don't have the frame or chemistry to successful carry additional weight. they were warriors in the middle after being moved from the outside.

you have others that i don't 'get' as an outsider and i think it shows at times, but it's no different that in the real word, where people are separated by ability and desire.

tajh has been called 'fat boy' by the players poking fun. you can tell the kid as many times as you'd like not to eat a pizza before bed, but you can't tuck him in.

anyway, my biggest concerns with the articles are its 'fairness'. they're trying to prove a point, i get it, and they are gonna grab those specifics that support it.

the sec has won 7 ncs in a row? espn is the common denominator; doesn't take much research, it just is. clemson in the same light has languished since ford left, not just on the field, but in facilities. hopefully the times are a changin.


Tajh had a "gut" at the beginning of the season***


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 11:24 AM
 



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Re: Tajh had a "gut" at the beginning of the season***


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 11:28 AM
 

Did you see the weigh in video? He had cut all the weight off and was a solid 220-230 pounds. Go back and look at it, he did not have a gut.


you didn't get the "gut" reference, Tajh has always been a..


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 12:06 PM
 

bigger QB. His size didn't change over the season.

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Re: i don't surf, but the message and formatting seems

[1]
Posted: Jan 26, 2012 10:36 AM
 

Speaking of Phillip Price, if I recall correctly prior to Brad Scott stepping aside, the AOC was using the fact that the lowly walk-on Phillip Price was in the two deep as an indictment of Coach Scott.

My problems with them is not that they have an agenda, I just think that they are not nearly as informed as they think they are. Further, while I don't necessarilly disagree that they have the program's best interest at heart, I disagree with the tactics they use to bring about their agenda.


Sorry, that (Weisenheimer) was my kid's login.***


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 10:39 AM
 




not sure you have to be 'informed' of the other side when


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 11:12 AM
 

you've made up your mind and i agree, they're only making it more difficult for dabo and staff to sell their program when from the outside it appears there's turmoil in the tiger family.

but that's what muckrakers do.


I have consulted my S& C consultant

[3]
Posted: Jan 26, 2012 8:50 AM
 

The late Jack Lelaine and he says Batson is top notch.

Sorry--STS is barking up the wrong coach.

Orange Googlers Unite

Save Tigernet--Boot the coots(you know who I mean).


Re: I have consulted my S& C consultant

[1]
Posted: Jan 26, 2012 8:57 AM
 

No one says that he's not great at what he does, but so was Steele and as we all saw, he couldn't adjust to the new offenses that appear in CFB. Same could be said of Baston. he's great at the old school but it's the new methods that seem to produce the right results.


Before Steele was at Clemson he had 1 year of being an...


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 11:20 AM
 

official DC and 1 year being a Co-DC to one of the greatest DC's in the history of college football. So it's not like he had a long history of being a coordinator and calling playings. That comparison is ridiculous.

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Re: Before Steele was at Clemson he had 1 year of being an...


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 11:27 AM
 

Just saying that Steele was and in some circles is still considered a great DC but he can't seem to figure out how to deal with new styles of offense that go against traditional styles. Baston is considered, as Dabo said, a great S&C coach by most people but that doesn't neccessarily mean that what he teaches is going to be successful when times have changed.


I posted this in other thread..still have the same concerns


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 10:51 AM
 

(Talking to poster Daredevil[/i]:) I know from past Batson-related threads, you have chimed in and indicated you worked under him or are at the very least, much more familiar with the actual program than the average internet reader.

It sounds like the vocal anti-Batson group over at Shakin' the Southland and cemetery-hill are going off 4 minute youtube videos and an old training manual. Do we know for sure what goes on in the Batson's weight room in 2011? Have any of these websites interviewed a player to confirm/deny the usage of any of these techniques?

Now I have to admit, eye test wise, it sure does seem like there is a problem. Getting physically whipped 3 years running by USCe and the problems with Wake, UMD, Troy and Wofford are more than a bit disconcerting. But like someone mentioned in the STS comments section, there is a whole lot of factors that go into the on the field performance: Recruiting and/or the player's talent level (athletic prowess), strength training, nutrition, coaching, psychology, etc.

I can't help but want to defend Batson, at least to some degree. I guess in some sort of way I just want to believe Dabo is right, when he dismissed any concerns about Batson. I know there are others out there that can sympathize with that sentiment. This anti-Batson stuff is operating at a fever-pitch on the internet. We really need to get this figured out once and for all so we can all move on. It's getting to be like a broken record.



Re: For all of those that want an indepth look at S&C


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 10:53 AM
 

I don't know jack squat about S&C but I do know that Clemson has produced a lot of monsters on the field. When I was there we had guys like Justin Miller. He was a 5'11 210 guy with a 40 inch vertical, but what set him apart was his attitude. Anthony Waters was a monster in the weightroom, but his leadership was what we remember. Leroy Hill was a machine as was John Leake. James Davis packed a punch. Reggie Merriweather was a man. Chad Jasmin moved piles. Barry Richardson was a solid tackle. Jamal Fudge packed a punch for a guy his size. Phillip Merling was a beast. Chad Diehl is a gamer. Our best offensive line had a center that was under 6'-0". We've had a lot of good players who passed the "eye test" and produced on the field, but they were noted more for their attitudes than for their physical skills.
I think this attitude is what the problem is moreso than Batson not doing something right. The guys I listed above used to get confrontational at parties and could put the fear in you with a stare. If we could recruit guys with attitudes like that on the O line consistently we'd be a different team no matter who the S&C coach is.
Spiller was stoked when he left here and Ellington is doing the same thing. I don't know what in the world happened with Rendrick. Harper was physically tough, but didn't have the mentality that somebody like Merriweather had.
I have noticed that our safeties are getting smaller each year and they don't look explosive, but I think that's due to technique. At LB, we just haven't recruited the mean tough guys up until last year. Anthony and Lateek are going to be monsters, and I hope Steward gets the redshirt. Dwayne Allen looks ripped, but he doesn't look like he has a fluid range of motion... it may be a good thing he's leaving early before he ends up like Rendrick...lol


Rendrick Taylor was just injury prone and Dwayne Allen will


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 11:22 AM
 

be the first TE selected in the NFL draft. Geez some people really don't know much.

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Re: Rendrick Taylor was just injury prone and Dwayne Allen will


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 11:29 AM
 

No... Rendrick was more than injury prone. He was recruited as a WR and was moved all over the field due to the changes in his size and needs at different positions. He was a genetic freak that we never took advantage of.
I know D Allen is getting drafted this year genius... I'm just saying when compared to elite NFL tight ends I don't see that fluidity of motion and I hope it's not due to bulking up too much.


If Allen had no fluidity of motion he wouldn't be the number


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 11:59 AM
 

one TE in the draft. Dwayne Allen has shown great ability as a pass catcher and as a blocker, he has no problem with fluidity of motion. And yes Rendrick was injury prone, he got injured every year he was here. He was oversized as a wide receiver coming in, and then added on all that extra bulk when the coaches had him change positions. Sorry, but sometimes some highly rated players just don't work out whether it's due to injury or not living up to the hype.

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If I want an in depth look into anything about Clemson...


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 11:18 AM
 

shakin the southland, would be the last place to go for any "in depth look". Those losers at shakin the southland and cemetery hill just want Dabo to fail. The losers at both of those blogs have zero insight on what goes on behind the scenes at Clemson. Watching a few minute clips of a practice or weight training session doesn't make you an expert on whats happening.

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Re: If I want an in depth look into anything about Clemson...

[1]
Posted: Jan 26, 2012 11:32 AM
 

They're better connected then you think.


List me their "connections"…..


Posted: Jan 26, 2012 12:04 PM
 

They don't even put their real names on their articles. They don't ever cite any sources. They have names like DrB and Figure Four which is from Ric Flair's finishing move. It's pathetic that people take these blogs, from these random jabroni's, that have zero insight or sources in the football program, who write pseudo articles that they know how to fix things. I've been critical of coaching, but that's something I can actually see through on the field production. These jabroni's claim to know about something by googling video's and training regimens of S&C trainers. That's absurd.

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