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YOUR BALANCE
Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class
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Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class


Feb 7, 2007, 5:44 PM

Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class

Reports of a rift between the athletic department and a special academic review board darken what usually is a day of celebration in Tiger Country. Full Story »


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What the devil is going on at Clemson University?***


Feb 7, 2007, 5:45 PM



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Fire Barker.***


Feb 7, 2007, 5:49 PM



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Last sentence...wow.***


Feb 7, 2007, 5:50 PM



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Lucky Johnson


I'm not sure if that last sentence follows from the story.***


Feb 7, 2007, 9:02 PM



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####! This pisses me off!


Feb 7, 2007, 5:50 PM

Why does it hurt so much to love Clemson?

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Bottom line: This is an outrage.


Feb 7, 2007, 5:51 PM

I fully support Bowden in this instance.

We would have Dwight Jones AND Markish Jones today if not for this dumb@$$ advisory board...at least that is how I read this article.

Shame on President Barker.

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Nah... just add Hillbilly BArker to the idiot list for me..


Feb 7, 2007, 6:02 PM

What is going on with Clemson lately?
Lets just clean house... I can't take much more!!!

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Re: Nah... just add Hillbilly BArker to the idiot list for me..


Feb 7, 2007, 7:40 PM

I am guessing that the "lame duck" comment meant that TB would choose not to remain at CU under the current circumstances. Couldn't much blame him. Something at CU has to change and change before next year. Donations to CU is going to fall like a bunker buster. We know what another president did to CU in 1990. We are still trying to recover from the mistakes made by the board of trustees and president with the way they handled Danny Ford.

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Re: Nah... just add Hillbilly BArker to the idiot list for me..


Feb 7, 2007, 10:55 PM

Agreed!

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Re: Nah... just add Hillbilly BArker to the idiot list for me..


Feb 7, 2007, 10:53 PM [ in reply to Nah... just add Hillbilly BArker to the idiot list for me.. ]

Agreed

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Explained fairly well Dan. Good job summarizing everything.


Feb 7, 2007, 5:52 PM

Like they say, money talks and ######## walks. Many of the "money people" are pretty upset right now, and rightfully so. Let's just hope the right people get angry about this. Those are the people who pay for the scholarships that are offered to the recruits. Those are the people who pump money into Clemson on football weekends renting $400 rooms.

Those are the people I hope are angry. The people with Bill D'Andrea's home phone number.

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Re: Explained fairly well Dan. Good job summarizing everything.


Feb 7, 2007, 7:34 PM

If I heard correctly on one of the shows on WCCP a few years ago, the IPTAY is helping to keep the academic part of the university afloat. It would seem that an academic mind, that should be absolutely brilliant, would not want to bite the hand that is feeding it. It seems that the Mathematics Dept may be in need of a staff change, since they cannot get a grip on the dollars they will lose if the big donors decide to withdraw their substantial donations to the cause. A work colleague today said that if he were a big donor, he would call the University and just tell them that his well just ran dry. WAKE UP!!! academicians, if you want to suck IPTAY dry, you better quit trying to dry up the source of your water.

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wow.


Feb 7, 2007, 5:53 PM

USuC left the ACC for something like this in the 70s and Clemson almost did too.

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Problem is that this isn't the ACC. It's internal and it


Feb 7, 2007, 5:54 PM

has to stop.

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yeah, I'm looking forward to hearing the other side of this


Feb 7, 2007, 5:58 PM

story..

I just can't imagine that right after a partial qualifier like Duane Coleman gets his degree that we'd shut the door to other kids who actually make the grades/scores in HS.

Max Lennon would not have done something like this, there must be another side.

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Re: Problem is that this isn't the ACC. It's internal and it


Feb 7, 2007, 11:01 PM [ in reply to Problem is that this isn't the ACC. It's internal and it ]

Sure does!

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Well for those wanting Bowden gone, you might get your wish.


Feb 7, 2007, 5:54 PM

He might just leave before they're ever given a chance to fire him.

And based on some of this stuff, good luck finding a top notch coach who wants to put up with THIS on top of all the other stuff that already comes along with recruiting.

Unbelievable.

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mediocrity...looooooong term***


Feb 7, 2007, 5:55 PM



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How long has the "Academic c***


Feb 7, 2007, 6:12 PM [ in reply to Well for those wanting Bowden gone, you might get your wish. ]



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sorry about that...but how long has the "Academic Committee"


Feb 7, 2007, 6:14 PM

been in effect. Sounds like it just got started and this is the first impact to the program. Is that correct? By the way recruiting to #17 as CU did will win out over time. A team can compete doing that.

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Barker's dream coach: Al Groh?***


Feb 7, 2007, 9:05 PM [ in reply to Well for those wanting Bowden gone, you might get your wish. ]



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The Last Thing we need


Feb 7, 2007, 5:59 PM

Is a Clemson Website speculating that this means that our coach is a lame duck.

Any coach under the same circumstances with the new committee would be in the same situation.

How is he a lame duck before Spring Practice?

STUPID.


Really poor ending to a pretty good article.

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null


it's a logical conclusion to be drawn...


Feb 7, 2007, 6:01 PM

by somebody who does an objective job looking at things IMO. If we wanted a website that toed the PR line to make things look good for Clemson then we could just go to ClemsonTigers.com all the time.

Then again, the university is known for shooting itself in the foot PR-wise.

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Re: The Last Thing we need - off target about Bowden


Feb 8, 2007, 8:46 AM [ in reply to The Last Thing we need ]

The discussion about Bowden is off-topic and drawing attention from what is important. The fact that Clemson's admission group is handicapping our football team by requiring tougher academic measures than the NCAA and the rest of the ACC and most of college football is bad enough.

But, to deny letters of intents to kids to whom Clemson has made commitments (and who have also committed to Clemson) the day before signing day is inexcusable, unethical, deplorable, classless and damaging. We recruited these kids for months. We flew 4 coaches up to see Jones in N.C. on Saturday and got his commitment.

I think it is stupid the admissions committee is not allowing the athletic department to do what USC, Fla. State, North Carolina, etc. can do, but to do so as they did it should be grounds for reprimand, probabtion and/or dismissal.

Apologiies are due to the kids, coaches, alumni and fans for the timing and behavior. The admin group cares nothing about the kids or athletics and is throwing their weight around at the expense of decency and fairness.

This policy needs to be stopped immediately and publicly stated as such from the AD and Barker for damage control and to minimize damage for future recruiting. It will tough fighting this next year in recruiting as opposing schools will use this against us and high school coaches and kids will be wary of Clemson.

Just look what we have done in denying 4 to 6 kids who wanted to come to Clemson a chance to do so. Give them a chance to succeed or fail. But, don't deny them the chance. Other schools didn't.

Write emails and letters to Barker, Phillips, the Board of Trustees. Withold money from Clemson. Call the athletic department, Barker, etc. Protest at Barker's residence.

This in unacceptable and NOT CLEMSON.

Go Clemson and Tigers. Athletics and academics can co-exist, be mutually supportive and both strong without taking away from the school.

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"Solid Barker" "One Barker"***


Feb 7, 2007, 6:03 PM



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Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class


Feb 7, 2007, 6:18 PM

Holy Cow, more on the money, reputable, award winning journalism from the professionals at the little neighborhhod radio station....WCCP! Are the same guys calling in at the same time everyday??

"But if Plyler is correct - and he repeated the facts as he knows them to be true on my show this morning, as well" Man, that's some hard-hitting reporting right there.....I smell Peabody Award!

Again, misinformed opinions and commentaries adding fuel to an unnecessary fire! You guys need to re-think your careers.

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Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class


Feb 7, 2007, 6:27 PM

Well,if it is not factual,then Mr. Barker and the BOT better set the record straight and quick! Remamber the "march" on Lennon's home?

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Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class


Feb 7, 2007, 10:59 PM [ in reply to Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class ]

They are right on the money.

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so where is the info on our recruiting class?????????????***


Feb 7, 2007, 6:24 PM



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Gee, Dan, thanks for your original thoughts.***


Feb 7, 2007, 6:43 PM



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Love the article!***


Feb 7, 2007, 7:05 PM



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Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam


Feb 7, 2007, 7:43 PM

Lame duck coach?????

Something is a brewing over on the Clemson plantation

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Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Stro


Feb 7, 2007, 8:24 PM

I dont want to be a Harvard / Yale school. I want to get a good college education and kick *&@#^$q in football! Period!

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Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class


Feb 7, 2007, 9:00 PM

I have and my family has been giving to Clemson and the athletic department for many years. The Danny Ford crap made me stop for a while but I started back - Barker better have an explanation.

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Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class


Feb 7, 2007, 9:09 PM

i told my son today he would never attend clemson because of discrimination, this is the worst form of discrimination i have ever seen. no way clemson no matter how you shape it or sugar coat it


it discrimination at its best

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discrimination***


Feb 7, 2007, 9:15 PM



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Clemson's internal staff. or whatever sickens me. get rid of


Feb 7, 2007, 9:25 PM

the virus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if this is a ploy to get rid of excuse talker Bowden then it is an unwise decision.

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Re: Clemson's internal staff. or whatever sickens me. get rid of


Feb 7, 2007, 10:56 PM

I agree

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Just one more reason for me to dislike Barker...***


Feb 7, 2007, 9:49 PM



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Re: Just one more reason for me to dislike Barker...***


Feb 7, 2007, 10:54 PM

I hate him!

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I think Barker's great


Feb 7, 2007, 11:51 PM

It's the Clemson fans I'm worried about.

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Re: I think Barker's great


Feb 8, 2007, 12:00 AM

He is a freaking idiot!

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Normally support Dan, but..


Feb 7, 2007, 10:04 PM

Our academic leaders are the best we've ever had, no contest. They are also totally supportive of our athletic programs. I have no inside info, but trust Barker and Co. to make the right calls.

Furthermore, your last sentence is out of bounds for a reporter paid by a Clemson website. The media fuels enough erroneous stuff as is, much less from within our own "family." I hope you live to eat this article!

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Re: Normally support Dan, but..


Feb 7, 2007, 10:52 PM

Dr. Barker is anti athletic no doubt.

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Here Here


Feb 7, 2007, 11:42 PM [ in reply to Normally support Dan, but.. ]

I totally agree Downunder.

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So Dan doesn't like Bowden, GET OVER IT FOLKS!


Feb 7, 2007, 10:09 PM

So Dan doesn't like Bowden, GET OVER IT FOLKS!

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Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class


Feb 7, 2007, 10:20 PM

This is not the first time Clemson has lost players this way. After all, Clemson is an academic institution. It is not the fault of the athletic department that a player doesn't get in. Nor is it the fault of the academic admissons office. It is the fault of the player that he didn't prepare himself academically.

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I agree.***


Feb 7, 2007, 11:43 PM



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Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class


Feb 7, 2007, 10:22 PM

This is not the first time Clemson has lost players this way. After all, Clemson is an academic institution. It is not the fault of the athletic department that a player doesn't get in. Nor is it the fault of the academic admissons office. It is the fault of the player that he didn't prepare himself academically.

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Last time I checked this kid got into UNC


Feb 7, 2007, 10:25 PM

which is a much tougher school to get into than Clemson.

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Re: Last time I checked this kid got into UNC


Feb 7, 2007, 11:47 PM

First of all, the recruit in question is a North Carolina resident. UNC admission standards are reduced for North Carolina residents.

Second, I am proud that Clemson has chosen to hold its STUDENT-athletes to a higher academic standard than some of our conference compatriots. Isn't winning with class the Clemson way?

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Re: Last time I checked this kid got into UNC


Feb 7, 2007, 11:59 PM

Winning is all that counts no matter what it takes.

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Re: Last time I checked this kid got into UNC


Feb 9, 2007, 11:07 AM [ in reply to Re: Last time I checked this kid got into UNC ]

yeah, winning with class _was_ the Clemson way....now we will be losing with class. Somehow I dont think class will be enough to continually fill an 80,000 capacity stadium. Maybe we could donate it to Wake Forest.

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Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class


Feb 7, 2007, 10:50 PM

Every irate Tiger fan should flood Dr. Barkers office with angry emails.He does not want is to be a football power and is anti athletic.His email address is jbarker@clemson.edu and his phone number is 8646563413.This academic review board has to be abolished.Dr. Barker should fired for this disgraceful act.

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Please tell me you are kidding.***


Feb 7, 2007, 11:49 PM



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Are you all a bunch of idiots?


Feb 7, 2007, 11:40 PM

I can't believe what I am reading. No, I am not talking about the article, I'm talking about the posts. Are you people really getting upset because our university has decided to impose academic standards on its football players? And mind you, these are certainly not the same academic standards that we were measured against when we sought to attend Clemson. These are de minimis expectations. I personally have no problem with Clemson rejecting certain recruits because of their inability to meet our academic criteria. I think it shows great class that we don't make unlimited exceptions for an individual simply because he can catch a ball. Furthermore, the advisory board seems like an effective way to weed out recruits who wouldn't be able to qualify academically to begin with. What is the point of getting a recruit to commit to Clemson if there is no way he will be able to qualify?

Clemson is not an Ivy League school. Some on this board have been emphatic in pointing out this distinction. But, I think that it is great that we are asking our student-athletes to meet a sliver of the academic expectations that we do of our non-athlete applicants.

I certainly hope neither Tommy nor President Barker are negatively affected by this policy.

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Re: Are you all a bunch of idiots?


Feb 7, 2007, 11:44 PM

College football at the 1a level is a busness.Academics are unimportant;winning conference titles are.

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Re: Are you all a bunch of idiots?


Feb 8, 2007, 7:42 AM [ in reply to Are you all a bunch of idiots? ]

Peerhaps you are the idiot. The main point of this article, or at least what should have been the main point is the timing. The admissions board apparently told Bowden the day before NSD that they would not have been admitted.

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"if there is no way he will be able to qualify?" THERE WAS


Feb 8, 2007, 8:05 AM [ in reply to Are you all a bunch of idiots? ]

a way he "Dwight Jones" would be able to qualify, High School is not over and he is taking 3 core classes.

Does this also mean Clemson isn't allowed to sign and place kids in Prep school anymore. You put your athletics program at a severe disadvantage if you're fighting for Prep School or JUCO's you didn't place that are needed to fill short term position needs, just look at SC and the Brinkley brothers.

Idiots indeed.

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So the kid gets into UNC, but not Clemson......


Feb 8, 2007, 8:34 AM [ in reply to Are you all a bunch of idiots? ]

I have a degree hanging on my wall from Clemson. I earned it, and it has done me well. But I'm not about to tell you that UNC isn't a much better academic school than Clemson. I'd be a fool. So if a kid can be acceptable for a school like UNC, it's foolish to think that he's unacceptable for Clemson.

This would be like USC booting a kid for academic reasons, then getting into Clemson. It's unreal.

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What good is...


Feb 8, 2007, 8:40 AM [ in reply to Are you all a bunch of idiots? ]

What good is an athlete who can't compete the whole time. Don't get me wrong, I love Mays, but think about how much it hurt the basketball team last year when he became academically ineligible. Or do we prefer to create more reasons why our players can't play like injuries and getting caught with pot (because those hurt us enough as is). I love seeing clemson win but i don't want to be questioned about the character of our players.

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Re: Are you all a bunch of idiots?


Feb 8, 2007, 10:06 AM [ in reply to Are you all a bunch of idiots? ]

No sir, we are not the idiots, you are. According to reports, this review board reviews some criteria to determine if a recruit will OBTAIN A CLEMSON DEGREE, not if that recruit is academically eligible. All of the athletes in question have qualified to be enrolled. For example, any of them can enroll at Clemson, the caveate is that they cannot enroll as a scholarship athlete, i.e. that their education is paid for by the university. If they are willing to pay their own way and walk-on to the football team, the university may not deny them admission nor the opportunity to "tryout" for the team.
Second, who can determine if ANY student will be able to complete their degree??? Seems to me, if a student can be admitted to enroll, then said student must have some ability to obtain a degree. Even if a student has a weak high school academic record, but is eligible to enroll, Clemson has more than enough resources to help that student matriculate and earn their degree. There are plenty of examples of players under Bowden's tenure to attest to that fact.
Third, timing is another major issue in all this because of the 11th hour call to recruits to inform them that they cannot attend Clemson as a scholarship athlete. But to me, that point is moot because I cannot fathom that a student eligible to enroll can be determined as not likely to earn a degree. In that case, that student should simply be academically ineligible.
Lastly, there are also examples of student/athletes with weak high school academics obtaining a degree from other D-I schools.
This is a new form of profiling taking place, and it is going to cause more harm than good in the short term and the long term. Pretty soon, the university is going to be able to carry the moniker of "idiot".

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Finally an articulate post


Feb 8, 2007, 10:56 AM

I largely agree, but my concern was with Clemson fans expressing outrage over the imposition of academic standards upon its student-athletes.

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Re: Are you all a bunch of idiots?


Feb 8, 2007, 3:10 PM [ in reply to Are you all a bunch of idiots? ]

You are the idiot. Did you not read the article? Its about the timing of what happened.

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I am completely OK with CU being more selective than UNC******


Feb 8, 2007, 8:48 AM



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Re: I am completely OK with CU being more selective than UNC******


Feb 8, 2007, 9:04 AM

I am not. Why should we be more selective than UNC, Fla. State, Florida, Miami, etc.? These are highly rated academic institutions.

But,debate that anyway you want. It was and is inexcusable, as well as unacceptable, to decide that a kid is unacceptable the day before national signing day when the kid has met all the criteria of the NCAA and the ACC and the coaches.

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Re: I am completely OK with CU being more selective than UNC******


Feb 8, 2007, 9:51 AM

I agree that the board is totally in the wrong for telling them the day before that the athlete is not eligible.

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Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class


Feb 8, 2007, 3:46 PM

We will have to sign players like D. Jones if we want to compete for another national championship. The athletic program helps supprot the university. These players should have been allowed to attend Clemson. I get furious everything I read something about our signing day. The coots sign 31 and will get Jo Jo Cox. We will start losing to them every year.

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Top tier football will raise Clemson academics


Feb 8, 2007, 7:54 PM

If Clemson?s administration wants to raise the academic caliber of the school, they should do everything possible to enable the coaching staff to create a BCS contender. A top tier Clemson football team would raise national awareness of Clemson (which is a relatively unknown school), thereby attracting more overqualified out-of-state applicants. And having a perennial BCS contender would sway a lot of academically overqualified high school seniors (in-or-out-of-state) to choose Clemson over schools that are ranked higher academically.

As a Pennsylvania high school student (whose academic credentials were well above Clemson?s average), I would have never have even considered applying to Clemson in 1983 if Danny Ford hadn?t brought Clemson to my attention with a 1981 national championship. As a Clemson grad living in California, I can tell you that most college educated people here have never heard of Clemson. And the few who have heard of it, couldn?t tell you what state it?s in or whether it?s a good, bad or mediocre school.

But everybody here has heard of Notre Dame-- and I dare say, not because of its academics. If Notre Dame had a perennially mediocre football team, I'll bet that they wouldn't be able to attract nearly as many quality applicants to cold, boring, flat, South Bend, Indiana.

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Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Stro


Feb 8, 2007, 8:09 PM

When has the issue become them not being offered scholarships, Jones wasn't told he could not have a scholarship the morning of signing day.

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Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class


Feb 9, 2007, 8:21 AM

How can The board expect Tommy to win if they won't let him get the guys he wants????!!!!!

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Re: Commentary: All Not Well At Clemson Despite Another Strong Class


Feb 9, 2007, 9:55 PM

It looks like the same old game.Becky and the gang as she did when Tommy West and Danny Ford was here. They can not stand for sports to be as important as being a high price school.

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