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YOUR BALANCE
Scott Rhymer: Where Is Our Reality?
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Scott Rhymer: Where Is Our Reality?


Oct 9, 2005, 11:07 PM

 
Scott Rhymer: Where Is Our Reality?

Scott Rhymer takes a look at the expectations of Clemson fans since the National Championship. Full Story »


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Nothing wrong with having high expectations


Oct 9, 2005, 11:13 PM

and strong goals IMO.

The team and coaching statt have higher goals then we do.

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I remember TB saying before the season started....


Oct 9, 2005, 11:14 PM

That fans are wanting 6-7 wins this season and he was upset cause he wanted to 'raise the bar'. Well the bar has been raised.

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I think we'd be upset if he agreed with us on that...


Oct 9, 2005, 11:16 PM

statement.

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I know im just saying I dont see anything


Oct 9, 2005, 11:17 PM

wrong with having high expectations. They are that, expectations.

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TB has said that our yearly goal is a National Championship***


Oct 9, 2005, 11:16 PM [ in reply to I remember TB saying before the season started.... ]



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wow, what a bunch of crap


Oct 9, 2005, 11:30 PM

"Reality" check Scott, people are called "fans" because they care whether or not their team wins the game. If they didn't they would just be observers. If you want to see "observers" then you should go to the Wake Forest game, they can be found on the hill behind the endzone sitting on a blanket eating cheese. Because there is so much interest in the team the "fans" get upset when we go through 4 years and go 2-2 against a team that have less resources, less interest from the public, and less talent on the team. Plus our two wins in that 4 year period should have been losses the win in 2002 came after something like 5 interceptions to squeak one out in the 4th, and the one in 2004 went to overtime and had a few calls that were questioned by outsiders (meaning those outside the Clemson family). If you are writing this to make me accept that we will lose to Wake Forest half the time we play them, I'm sorry I won't and anybody else that will is crazy. When you have all the advantages I mentioned earlier and keep losing to teams you should beat, the problem is coaching. Tommy needs to start making better in game adjustments, or I can see him having the same fate as Hatfield and West. I hate that because I would like to think that Tommy is the man, but I have to say I what I hate worse is answering the call to go to these away games and seeing us lose games that we shouldn't.

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I don't have time tonight to give this its proper response!!***


Oct 9, 2005, 11:36 PM



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you're right, I forgot "Everything is great!!!!"***


Oct 9, 2005, 11:38 PM



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I was talking about the article.***


Oct 9, 2005, 11:39 PM



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sorry***


Oct 9, 2005, 11:42 PM



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wow, what a bigger bunch of crap***


Oct 9, 2005, 11:49 PM [ in reply to wow, what a bunch of crap ]



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and I guess you don't care if we win?


Oct 10, 2005, 1:00 AM

what did I say that you didn't agree with, or can you not piece together a rebuttal other than "what you wrote was a bigger piece of crap".

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Re: wow, what a bunch of crap


Oct 9, 2005, 11:53 PM [ in reply to wow, what a bunch of crap ]
tiger4.jpg(7.8 K)

...............FIRE SCOTT RHYMER !!!!!
This dude has to be a decendant of the moron who said,"It's not whether you win or lose,it's how you play the game"!
With a "whatever" attitude like that,why is he even with Tigernet?He needs to be doing play by play at an opera somewhere!He has no passion for this program,players,coaches,or even the history!The only part of theprogram he likes is hanging out with the grounds keeper,watching the grass grow!

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Re: wow, what a bunch of crap


Oct 10, 2005, 8:34 AM [ in reply to wow, what a bunch of crap ]

be careful or your name will be included in another finger wagging post.

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Screw Oil, burn Lungers


I wag my finger at your finger wagging accusation of finger


Oct 10, 2005, 8:35 AM

wagging

2024 orange level memberbadge-donor-15yr.jpg flag link military_tech thumb_downthumb_up

Alright.... I want that six minutes of my life back...


Oct 9, 2005, 11:39 PM

That article was pathetic and one of the biggest wastes of time that I think I have ever encountered... Thank you Mr. Rhymer.

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Disagree with one comment - that we were not among the elite


Oct 9, 2005, 11:40 PM

during the 80's. We absolutely were. We lost it by letting personal hatred by certain individuals drive out our coach and hire another one who was a poven program killer.

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agreed***


Oct 9, 2005, 11:41 PM



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Ford had us getting so strong in the late 80s...


Oct 9, 2005, 11:53 PM [ in reply to Disagree with one comment - that we were not among the elite ]

it didn't matter what the national media thought of us at the time. Bobby Bowden was praying by halftime of the 1989 game that Ford would let up on him in the second half. Not to mention Major Harris and WV. After watching that video, FordsLastStand, they made Harris look like a ragdoll.

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Re: We fired our Bear Bryant. Not a good move.***


Oct 10, 2005, 9:02 AM



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Re: Disagree with one comment - that we were not among the elite


Oct 10, 2005, 12:02 AM [ in reply to Disagree with one comment - that we were not among the elite ]

The only Thing that got me with the article was the fact that were not supposed to be upset about a loss. Were not supposed to discuss the loss afterward. If we as fans did not do that, we would NOT be true fans. Being upset means we have passion for our tigers. Having passion makes us fans.

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Nothing wrong with being upset after a loss. Just don't


Oct 10, 2005, 12:44 AM

think we should call for the coach's head after a loss. I didn't agree with it when Danny was coach and I don't agree with it with Tommy either.

Feel free to be upset after loss. My wife can't stand to be around me after a Clemson loss. Usually don't come around for 2-3 days. It's a good thing I don't come in here and post every emotion I'm feeling too.

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"The one who thinks we can and the one who thinks we can't are both right! Which one are you, son? Which one are you, son?"


5th best winning percentage during the 80s***


Oct 10, 2005, 12:04 AM [ in reply to Disagree with one comment - that we were not among the elite ]



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if we would have kept ford we would have had


Oct 10, 2005, 12:12 AM

at least another acc or 2 and maby a national championship

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I'd say at least 4-5 ACC Championships in 15 years.***


Oct 10, 2005, 12:16 AM



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i am going further and say a dynasty like miami


Oct 10, 2005, 12:21 AM

we were getting to be that good

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If not for FSU coming to the league I would agree...


Oct 10, 2005, 12:45 AM

I'd say we'd probably win 10-12 in th last 15 years without FSU but since they joined the ACC and they had some amazing teams in the 90s, they'd probably take about half of those.

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probably right.***


Oct 10, 2005, 1:18 AM



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Not only is this a horribly written article...


Oct 10, 2005, 9:58 AM [ in reply to Disagree with one comment - that we were not among the elite ]

but its just dead wrong.

We expect to win.

We pay our coach millions of dollars. We have a tradition of winning. No one here is expecing consecutive National Championships.

We just want to beat who we're supposed to beat, and every other year at least be a factor in the conference championship race.

We're not. We lost to either a Duke or Wake every year.

And Scott, take an introductory philosophy class, please.

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The 80's were 20 years ago*******


Oct 11, 2005, 10:30 AM [ in reply to Disagree with one comment - that we were not among the elite ]



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One of the dumbest articles I've ever read.


Oct 10, 2005, 12:49 AM

Without even disagreeing with his point (buried somewhere amongst the drivel), just look at how he tries to make it.

"Where is our reality?"

Well, it's all around us. Isn't it always?

Then comments like this: "What I do know, feel, and believe is that our reality forbids us from taking pleasure from an otherwise pleasurable experience."

After reading that tortured sentence you just want to go take a nap or bang your head against something. "...reality forbids us from taking pleasure from an otherwise pleasurable experience." Good God. What pseudo-philosophical nonsense.

This is a featured article (and writer) for this site?

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And say that sentence isn't completely stupid, is he really


Oct 10, 2005, 1:13 AM

suggesting that we should derive pleasure from losing? The old "well we gave it our best, wait till next year"? I'm sorry but that's the mentality of losers, winners get upset when they lose, and question things so that they can get better. I wish this "I'm not saying to accept mediocrity, but face it guy we're mediocre and what can we do about it" article was in print so I could wipe my ### with it.

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You don't own a printer?***


Oct 10, 2005, 6:21 PM



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'Nuff said!


Forget firing Tommy...


Oct 10, 2005, 1:50 AM

fire the author of this article. I sincerely hope this guy does this in his spare time and does not get paid for it. Either way, he needs to go...all my "sinces" tell me it is the right thing to do.

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Really? Ever one of your sinces?***


Oct 10, 2005, 8:50 AM



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Boy, I hope no recruits see this article!!!!


Oct 10, 2005, 2:10 AM

Nice job, way to support our Tigers!!! Unrealistic expectations? Name on fan that does not expect/want their school to compete for the NC.

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Re: Boy, I hope no recruits see this article!!!!


Oct 10, 2005, 2:17 AM

Let me rephrase that last sentence.
Name one fan that does not desire for their team to compete for the NC.

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Then let's save 2 million dollars on coaching. Article=crap***


Oct 10, 2005, 2:50 AM



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THANK YOU SCOTT!!!


Oct 10, 2005, 6:28 AM

I have been waiting for someone to put this into words for me. I for one am also sick and tired of everyone sucking the fun out of Clemson football. So you fair weather fans don't like the product on the field and you can't see improvement. You don't like the play calling and you don't see a future. I have some words for you. GO PULL FOR SOMEONE ELSE! Leave Clemson alone. We do not need your negativity here. Don't give your money because there is someone waiting right behind you to get your tickets.

Thank you Scott!

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Re: THANK YOU SCOTT!!!


Oct 10, 2005, 8:25 AM

It's so true that the Clemson football fans are probably the most passionate about our team than any other university in the nation. However, this proves the saying that "love is blind." When we love something so much we don't like to hear anything negative about it, whether it's the truth or not. One thing that is designed to be constructive criticism, or even perhaps just an observation that isn't what the majority of our fans "believe" to be true, just doesn't set right with us. This article wasn't written to bash Clemson football, it was written to help people realize that football is a game, and as much as we want to be the best and believe that we are the best it just isn't so at this point in time. I love Clemson as much as anyone and I want us to be the elite. Hopefully in a few years we can be.

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Re: THANK YOU SCOTT!!!


Oct 10, 2005, 8:32 AM

Are we really sure that we can be an elite program in a few years? We haven't done diddly since '91...How much longer?

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Excellent first post.


Oct 10, 2005, 9:13 AM [ in reply to THANK YOU SCOTT!!! ]

So from your statement:

1 ... What sucks the fun out of Clemson football isnt the fact that we're 2-3 after some lofty preseason expectations (with an indefensible loss to Wake), but rather those who express their disappointment.

2 ... A Fair Weather fan isnt someone who shows up just when we are winning (the generally accepted definition), but rather someone who hangs around during the tough times and takes enough ownership to show passion about their desire for the team's success.

3 ... You, being the all-weather true fan, like the product on the field.

4 ... You see improvement (in your cystal ball I guess).

5 ... You like the play calling. Actually, I'm OK with the plays that we call. I just hope that there is lost left to install, and that we are seeing half of the playbook. If this is not the case, then I am not OK with the playcalling.

6 ... You see a future. Now on this one, I'm with you. I see a future, but we aint quite moving so fast toward the one I see for us.

7 ... Rather than desire better for us, and rather than express that desire, I should shut up and go pull for somebody else. That my friend would be the TRUE definition of fair weather fan.

I will not leave Clemson alone. It is in my blood. I've been a Tiger since I can remember, and I will be one till I die. In the meantime, I will be an all weather fan. I will not accept mediocrity. I will not confuse negativity and desire for more that is positive. I will continue to give my money.

Over generalizing can be very dangerous. Yes, there are idiots out there who say things that are unwarranted. But they often dont require a response. You can just ignore them into oblivion. But all who express disapproval arent just being "negative...fair weather fans".

We are Clemson, and we expect something greater.

As for this fan, I will express my disappointment. I will equally express my approval. I will be in Raleigh this week bringing 7 others with me. I fully expect to be expressing my approval after we win the game.

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I'm feeding the dogs...I'll reply later...


Oct 10, 2005, 6:35 AM

Let's just say I will never apologize for expecting to win.

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That article left me feeling empty. Good grief.....


Oct 10, 2005, 9:01 AM

with articles like this who needs writers like Bart Wright and Morris, etc....

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Re: Scott Rhymer: Where Is Our Reality?


Oct 10, 2005, 9:46 AM

An excellent article. All except the part about "since of reality." It should be "sense of reality."

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We may not be like SoCal, etc., BUT....


Oct 10, 2005, 9:54 AM

I know we can be like Virginia Tech. It just takes time to build something like that. VT is not a "traditional power" but it is a true player now. I am a firm believer that these things run in cycles (see the almighty Oklahoma Sooners).

Some just peak in differnet ways. I do not think Univ. of South Carolina's peak is anywhere near a Nat'l Championship but I know that Clemson has that potential. Even Duke has the potential to win 5 games a year & Wake Forest can even go out west and beat a great Oregon team in a bowl.

It took Beamer many, many years to put all of this together. For that matter, look at Papa Bowden a good while to build "it" at FSU. I tend to see the future pretty brightly due to our facility upgrades, current commits, etc. Has anyone taken a look at our roster? We're playing predominately Freshman, Redshirt Freshmen, Sophomores, Redshirt Sophomores, etc. Can you imagine these guys with experience being backed up and supplanted by our current commits? Looks good to me.

I'd say we're attempting a VaTech path than anything else.

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My feelings exactly!


Oct 10, 2005, 4:02 PM

Let's not jump the gun

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What a Joke of a guy, doesnt know clemson football tradition


Oct 10, 2005, 10:19 AM

1981 national championship... is all you know huh?
What about the Bowl victory over Oklahoman, what about the Bowl victory over west virgina and major Harris, what about beating notre dame, what about beating fla state, and virgina tech, and boston college, what about beating Ohio state, and saying by to Woody.
What about the years of straight top 20 finishes..
What about the total victory Total over carolina, what about the,.... i think 12 acc championships... what about Beating Georgia off of a safty and field goal..
We have the stadium, we have the money to pay a big time coach, we have the beautiful campus, we have the faithful Fans, we drive miles to watch our Tigers play.
You tell me what college has better facilities than we do.. some may but we are working on it. not just because of Bowden, but any coach would want it.
Dont tell me just in 1981 we got lucky... As far as I'm concerned Scott, you can take your hat and coat and move to columbia and give them that kind of boring negativity about us having to high of expectations..
Why not let me coach it, if that is the case...BECAUSE CLEMSON DESERVES THE VERY VERY BEST!

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Re: Scott Rhymer: Where Is Our Reality?


Oct 10, 2005, 10:45 AM

Scott, you make a few good points, but even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

Clemson was an elite program in the 80's! Your statements otherwise are ridiculous. That Clemson is on mediocre now is an unfortunate fact.

Clemson can be elite again, but not with people who think little.

Except for Florida State, and I would submit they have been underachievers with respect to National Championships, every team you mentioned has had down years wtihin the last 15 years. And, Ohio State is overrated in an overrated league that is artificailly bolstered by huge population numbers in TV ratings and journalists. Rampant cheating has been reported at Ohio State University for years, and they used Clarret at running back in their National Championship game after he passed exams orally over the phone and then needed a bad call to give them the NC game.

But, the common ingredient for the elite teams are great defenses, blocking, tackling, kicking and great coaching. Look at your list of elite teams and look at the head coaches for those teams. How long have they been coaches for those teams? And, what was the record for those teams in the immediate years prior to those teams?

Great coaches make great teams. These coaches are few and far between. Danny was one of those coaches. Clemson blew it when they dismissed him. We can find another one. But, is Tommy one of those? After seven years we can probably say no.

Yes we expect more and should get more. And, we should say so. And, we can do something about it and not be resigned to be defeatists.

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You hit the nail on the head!!***


Oct 10, 2005, 2:56 PM



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Horrible article...people like this need to cheer for USuC**


Oct 10, 2005, 11:03 AM

nm

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Re: Scott Rhymer: Where Is Our Reality?


Oct 10, 2005, 11:27 AM

very good article. football teams are like the brand name products we buy every day. we buy these products because we trust they will perform since they have been quality products for many years.the floridas, michigans,alabamas of the world are these brand names. they will always produce with the occasional down year. clemson and usc do not have this longtime brand name. they can expect to win 6-7 games a yr with maybe 8-9 wins every 4-5 yrs.these are the facts get use to it clemson and usc.

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I've got a question for you Remaxx.....


Oct 10, 2005, 9:47 PM

Were you alive during the 80's? We consistently won 8-9 games during the 80's and early 90's and won 10 or more occasionally. We did have an occasional down year with 6 or 7 wins, but it was the exception instead of the rule. We've been elite before and we will be elite again.

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Clemson and USC are not comparable


Oct 11, 2005, 4:48 AM [ in reply to Re: Scott Rhymer: Where Is Our Reality? ]

Lumping Clemson in a phrase with USC is an insult to Clemson football and evidence of coothood.

What Rhymer wrote applies to Carolina, whose fans appear to actually enjoy mediocrity because it gives them an excuse to gather and be mediocre together while they dream illicit dreams of achievement.

Rhymer's article, as you apparently couldn't tell, is one of the worst-written pieces of garbage I've ever read. It says nothing other than, "Hey, y'all, maybe we expect too much."

I wasted two words there: "Hey, y'all." Rhymer wasted at least a thousand words mumbling and meandering with no real insight and precious little accuracy.

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I have seen the future, and it is Clemson.


Where is your Reality?


Oct 10, 2005, 1:27 PM

If you take into consideration that 2 of 6 wins over the past several years are against non confernence opponents like Ball State, Temple, Furman etc. and should be considered automatic wins. Then add the fact that another 1 of those 6 wins is against the Gamecocks that leaves you with 3 confernce wins. Then consider that fact that we play conference opponents DUKE and Wake Forest every year. Is that considered acceptable to anyone??? I don't think we should be competing for a National Championship every year and competing with Oklahoma, FSU, or USC every year, but to accept our current level of success is not reality to ME!!

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Very, Very Excited. Very, Very Proud.


Excellent piece of journalism that will definitely get under


Oct 10, 2005, 2:57 PM

some skin of the "ficle faithful" here at Clemson. Well written and very concise...

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Fire Scott Rymer***


Oct 10, 2005, 5:54 PM



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I think they must have hired him to get more posters on this


Oct 10, 2005, 6:28 PM

board!

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'Nuff said!


No, they hired him to head up the "No Tents!" campaign***


Oct 10, 2005, 9:53 PM



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Re: Scott Rhymer: Where Is Our Reality?


Oct 10, 2005, 6:01 PM

Opinions are like -$$holes; everybody has one and they all stink!

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Mr. Rhymer - If you please...


Oct 10, 2005, 6:46 PM

I find it amazing that people talk about how someone posting on a message board will influence a recruit yet -on a website devoted to Clemson athletics - a horribly written piece is published that for many "young" recruits has the appearance of being well informed. Hopefully recruits will have a parent standing by to help them distinguish between journalism and what Mr. Rhymer just published.

Rhymer proceeds on the all too eroneous notion that his words are a breath of frsh air. Hardly. Like many who frequent all of the sites dealing with Clemson, and like many who donate money to the school, I will never visit this site again. I have already dispatched numerous e-mails to fellow alums asking that they avoid Tigernet.

Mr. Rhymer could well have made his points without doing harm to the football program himself. He probably feels it was time for a journalist to step up and address unrealistic expectations - and it is time - but Rhymer is no journalist as evidenced by the poorly constructed "article."

People from Gamecock country are eating this up. Friends who come up to see FSU with us emailed me saying "..no wonder you guys struggle-the article reads like a message board post." Great job of causing more damage than 1000 message board posts by lending legitimacy to a poorly written article, both in content and structure.

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HERE IS OUR REALITY....


Oct 10, 2005, 8:19 PM

I do not even know where to begin on all the points in which I disagree. Just to name a couple... The sense of defeatism that he mentions is exactly how I feel after a loss to Woeful Wake and Downtrodden Duke and other woeful programs( Marshall etc.) I mean we should year in and year out beat these teams. The "Elite" teams he mentions hardly ever, ever, lose the game to teams they are suppose to beat. That is what makes them an Elite team. We have been their; however, since TB we surely have not.
Another point he brings up is... why not talk about good ol Clemson and enjoy the fellowship and leave the score out of it. Excuse me, the score IS the reason why I drove 2.5 hrs to see. If I wanted to fellowship more, I would invite my friends and family to my house and save us a bunch of money.
And to cut this short...the reference to CU not being an elite program. He is exactly right. We are not and never will be under TB. He continually blames assistants, young players, facilities. He is the biggest BULLS@#!TER I have met. How many more years does he need? How much more of our money does he need? How big of a stadium does he need? For goodness sakes, be a man, step up and face the music and accept responsibilty and maybe he can earn some points.
LOSING BITES!! and since I help pay TB's salary.. I am qualified to judge.
Lets try to get CU back where it needs to be...Great games, loses to quality teams that we at least put a fight up in, Packed Valley and some ACC Titles

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Re: HERE IS OUR REALITY....


Oct 10, 2005, 8:24 PM

agree!! TB will never get us to where we deserve to be!!
we need a COACH!!!!!!!

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Re: Scott Rhymer: Where Is Our Reality?


Oct 11, 2005, 8:15 AM

Don't want to be Sou Cal, Texas, FSU. If we can be what Va Tech is I would be satisfied. If they can do it in Blacksburg, we can do it in Clemson.

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Re: Scott Rhymer: Where Is Our Reality?


Oct 11, 2005, 6:05 PM

RAMBLING, REDUNDANT and RIDICULOUS is this entire column.
But seriously, what is your measuring stick of an "elite" team? Where were Southern Cal, Texas, and Ohio State ten years ago, even Oklahioma! And what about Nebraska, Penn State, and Alabama. Are they not qualified to be considered "elite" teams. All these teams have won national championships just as Clemson has, so what disqualifies us from not being considered "elite"? Every program has down years, but that doesn't put them "OUT". We can and should expect better results than what we have been getting. Too many of these young Dot-commers have been groomed through the political correctness concept to expect mediocrity as acceptable. That's not true of the "Greatest Generation" and their "Baby Boomer" offspring. "Winning" is an attitude, Not an excuse

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Re: Scott Rhymer: Where Is Our Reality?


Oct 11, 2005, 8:05 PM

This seasons "reality" isn't neccesarily next seasons reality and it certainly isn't the reality that was the 80's. Rhymer makes some good points about unrealistic expectations but it is not impossible for Clemson to become an elite program again. And yes we were an elite program in the Ford era. Being in a weak ACC conference doesnt disqualify Clemson from being elite any more than Miami being in a weak Big East Conference. I remember plenty of criticism of Coach Ford such as "he only knows two plays- run left and run right. We had well coached, great athletes back then. I believe Coach Bowden is two or three recruiting classes away from getting us back in that elite category. We have some well coached young athletes right now with alot of potential. If we can recruit some defensive talent like we had back in the 80's we will be on our way.

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