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Topic: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?
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New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 9:54 AM
 

 
What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?

This interview with the Freedom From Religion Foundation - the group that brought complaint against Clemson University earlier this week - sheds light on what the foundation is looking to accomplish and delves further into what they see as a problem. Full Story »



Well, here's a major contradiction in the same paragraph...


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:02 AM
 

"It isn't coercion that we are claiming..." then she says, "there is a climate as if to be a player you have to go to church".

So are you claiming coercion or not?


So starved for attention, they didn't even know what...


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:35 AM
 

your saying.


I thought that was odd as well


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:16 AM
 

they say it is the mere presence of the activities and not the pressure to attend violates the constitution. But they then go on and try to prove the activities are mandatory.

If it was the mere presence, they would have all of the evidence they need and not even worry about player statements. #### if it was just the fact that Clemson has prayer groups, Clemson University would have given them all the evidence FFRF needs in public statements by the university. But that's not the standard and they know their argument is weak without finding a player that will try to tie playing time to prayer. The fact is, without a proof of coercion of a player, this is nothing more than public coercion from FFRF to get Clemson to change its policies.


This is the reason I should have read through the thread


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:19 AM
 

before adding my two cents! Yes, your post, exactly.


It says Clemson is "coercing players to pray....."


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:05 PM
 

Then says it's not a coercion issue.....WHAT DA FONK? Completely baseless and ignorant.


Unless a player complains


Posted: Apr 20, 2014 6:28 PM
 

They probably have no standing to sue. They are just trying to pressure Clemson through the media by implying that there is coercion.


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:02 AM
 

This lady just completely contradicted her self. She first says that there is coercion, then she says there isn't and they don't need to prove it???

Then says Clemson should be thanking them???


bahahahahahaha


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:48 PM
 

The only thing I will thank these bitter extortionists for is for galvanizing Christians in this region, and in the country, in opposition to their bullying and forceful tactics to think as they think. That is the issue. And their heads are too deep in the sand to see their own hypocrisy. Stand firm, Clemson Tigers! There is something in these hills ... and it isn't cowardice!

"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


I can guarantee you that whenever Gaylord

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:04 AM
 

is on her last breath she will suddenly be praying to "a non existent God" to save her. Bunch of phonies and frauds.


Carl Sagan didn't.***

[3]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:49 PM
 



"When I was young, I was sure of many things; now there are only two things of which I am sure: one is, that I am a miserable sinner; and the other, that Christ is an all-sufficient Saviour. He is well-taught who learns these two lessons." -John Newton


Re: Carl Sagan didn't.***

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 3:59 PM
 

Neither did Christopher Hitchens.


Guilty!

[6]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:10 AM
 

I suppose Clemson may be guilty. Guilty of enriching young men's lives. Guilty of establishing a culture that is centered around morals rather than the some of the filth we have grown accustomed to seeing everyday. All of this will only make Clemson shine brighter, make more people realize how great this institution is. Make no mistake, God will prevail...he always does.


Boy, Wisconsin must be a wonderful place to exist

[7]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:11 AM
 

with no crime, no poverty, no sickness, and no other societal ills to combat; with such a great way of life there that this group can invest this kind of time and effort towards the perceived "evils" of a little sports program at a little school a thousand miles away, where a coach is subversively turning young men into moral, quality human beings.

Utopia has been found, and it is apparently in Madison, Wisconsin.

Absolutely asinine.


A major gripe I have about the state of our culture is that

[3]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:11 AM
 

there are too many people offended on behalf of the rights of other people. In this case, they don't have an offendee but they think Clemson should thank them for their concern anyway.


"Integrity is the ability to stand by an idea"

[3]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:34 AM
 

- Ayn Rand.

Either you believe in the Constitution or you don't.

Cowardice is the only way to describe sitting idly by while others to lose their rights because it doesn't affect you.

"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Case in point.

[2]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:41 AM
 

Your quoting Ayn Rand has no impact on me.

Now, had you a pithy quote from from Tarantino, that would at least be more insightful.


Re: "Integrity is the ability to stand by an idea"


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:24 AM
 

Well said


Re: A major gripe I have about the state of our culture is that

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:26 PM
 

To play devil's advocate, I think the offendee in this case is the non-Christian SC resident who's taxes are paying for an openly religious program. Now, I think for the most part, since these events are voluntary, this isn't a huge deal. But the paid team chaplain... I can see where FFRF is coming from. SC taxpayers are supporting a team chaplain? Seems like it crosses the church/state boundary.


Re: A major gripe I have about the state of our culture is that

[2]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:46 PM
 

Tax dollars go to pay military chaplains. Same difference.


Re: A major gripe I have about the state of our culture is that


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 7:16 PM
 

And there are multiple chaplains for multiple religions. I believe there are even secular chaplains for atheists, agnostics, humanists, etc. Can we say the same for Clemson football?


But there is only 1 assigned to each unit


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 8:13 PM
 

If you happen to be Muslim and have a catholic Chaplin you can still go to the Chaplin for support but there isn't a Chaplin for every religion available at every unit.


SC taxpayers have NOTHING to do with the team chaplain

[3]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:49 PM
 

in fact, SC taxpayers do not support any employees of the athletic program, salary/fringe/space.

heck, SC taxpayers do not support the majority of faculty on campus, salary/fringe

just the way it is


Re: A major gripe I have about the state of our culture is that


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 4:04 PM
 

Please learn the difference between "who's" and "whose". Clemson people should know better.


Re: A major gripe I have about the state of our culture is that

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:06 PM
 

Really-- Every school- public or private has a chaplain. There purpose goes way beyond religion- helping student athletes deal with death,emtional stress and a number of other issues that may be difficult to deal with when you are in college- away from home and need a support person. Oh and by the way much of the salary paid to athletic personel ie coaches,chaplains etc does not come from the taxpayer. DoYourHomework.


This is kind of the beginning of the end


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:11 PM
 

Eventually a court will rule this unconstitutional.

The same with prayers before games, etc.

Just a matter of time.

Looks like this group found a school rather vocal about their practices which is helps get the conversation started.

"Smelley, Garcia, and Beecher are going to lead you to 4-8." - york_tiger


Dear past/current members of the Clemson family...

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:13 AM
 

don't give these clowns the ammo they want to try & make this a court case. they're just trying to used the pretense of 'religious freedom' to drag our football program and university through the mud.

& i would like to thank these people...with a 2x4...to the head...repeatedly.


Re: Dear past/current members of the Clemson family...

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 4:32 PM
 

Count me in on the "Thanking Group".


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?

[2]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:13 AM
 

What a joke these people are. Wouldn't her time be better spent going after football programs who use woman to attract the best player's by have them sleep with them. ESPN has reported on that many times in football programs. Because a Coach wants to have prayer and hope to set a good example you attack him. Clemson should take the publicity and run with it. I support Coach and the University 100% to fight this.


Who in the world is FFRF?!!!! Better question... who cares?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:18 AM
 

This stuff is none of their business. If this is the worst thing that somebody can say about Dabo and our football program then that's a blessing.


FFRF


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 6:35 PM
 

is a group that is now on everyone's radar because they've attached Clemson Football. They probably looked at dozens of institutions before they decided to attach our FB program. This is a publicity gimmick and it is working.


Psalms 14:1

[2]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:18 AM
 

Psalms 14:1

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."


1 Corinthians 1:18

[2]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:44 PM
 

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

As one poster already stated- "Have no doubt, God will prevail!"


Re: 1 Corinthians 1:18


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 2:49 PM
 

Amen. As frustrating as they can be with this, we should pray for their hearts.


Matthew 10:32/33

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 2:38 PM
 

32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven.

33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.


Show me where it says "freedom FROM religion" in the

[6]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:30 AM
 

constitution, bill of rights, or federal law. There is no such thing as freedom FROM religion. In this country you have the right to freedom OF religion. You have the right to exercise whatever religion you choose. These atheists and agnostics have misinterpreted this big time. They want to go through life suing anybody anytime they see Christianity in practice. But they never sue Jews or Muslims...why is that?


Cause the muslims would cut their throats. Literally.***

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:34 PM
 




How many muslim coaches do we have that lead

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:21 PM
 

team prayers?


I dont know, but I was speaking generally about the FFRF


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:56 PM
 

they only jump on and sue schools and cities with respect to Christian practices such as Easter or Christmas. They never sue when it comes down to a star of David being displayed or an Islamic image being displayed.


Re: Show me where it says "freedom FROM religion" in the

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 4:16 PM
 

Freedom from religion is implicit in the constitutional guarantee of religious freedom. Besides, atheism and agnosticism are classified by many Christian apologists such as Dr. William Craig as forms of religion.


All the open records do is prove them wrong on the...

[2]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:31 AM
 

point they are trying to make. And she should stop claiming the courts agree with them, because they don't on team chaplains. This group are a bunch of fools looking for a pay check.


Mountains of evidence that Clemson has a climate of

[7]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:32 AM
 

Christianity. Thank you. We always said there is something special about those hills.


Re: Mountains of evidence that Clemson has a climate of


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:49 AM
 

> Christianity. Thank you. We always said there is
> something special about those hills.

. . . and that's well and good. I support Clemson in that regard . . . so long as Clemson returns its Morrill Act land grant status to the University of South Carolina AND drops its claims for any future state appropriations.


Tell 'em coot


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:39 AM
 

smh


Re: Mountains of evidence that Clemson has a climate of

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:46 PM
 

USC has a chaplain, too. His name is Adrian Despres. Coots have a chapel service every Friday before a game.


stupid is as stupid does


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:51 PM
 

in this case a coot is stupid...

go figure


First I've heard that USC wants back into


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 6:24 PM
 

The land grant business.

Other than this new aspiration of yours, why should Clemson do more to get out of state appropriations than Cornell, Penn State, or Delaware have done? That's the future as illustrated by LIFE scholarships at private/sectarian schools across the state at present. Bring it on. Would be better for you guys too.


Where was this group when Tommy Bowden was coach?...

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:34 AM
 

Oh, we weren't a top ten team under Bowden. Hence, they wouldn't get the attention they are receiving now.


Re: Where was this group when Tommy Bowden was coach?...


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:35 AM
 

tommy got called on the carpet by the aclu twice.


Re: Where was this group when Tommy Bowden was coach?...


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 5:42 PM
 

They were there. As soon (and I mean witin 24 hours) as Dabo became head coach Terry Don was besieged by someone within the athletic department to force Dabo to drop the chaplain.


Who wants to bet that she wears a tinfoil hat?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:34 AM
 

I am a God-fearing Christian, but as the Bible insists, I also do my best to support my county's laws. What the football program is doing is completely fine, though. Crazy woman admitted herself that it's not mandatory. If it were, she'd definitely have a case. The only way she'd get a plaintiff is if a player feels persecuted for not participating, and Dabo wouldn't let that happen. She's just your classic case of somebody who is afraid of religion. Maybe she'd prefer Nevin Shapiro to come buy all our players hookers, instead of Dabo holding optional activities that can instill good values within our boys.


Apparently to her somebody being a Christian and sharing....


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:37 AM
 

that view to someone who is voluntarily listening is coercion. This group is minor league, because there to stupid to realize they are contradicting themselves publicly.


Re: Apparently to her somebody being a Christian and sharing....


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:46 AM
 

I think what they are saying is that the on-field, in-uniform baptisms, bible studies, morning prayer, etc. should be more separate from the football program, since it is in fact a state run program that should not be heavily suggesting to its players that they should join the coaches and trainers for religious activities.


Re: Who wants to bet that she wears a tinfoil hat?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:42 AM
 

I may be in the minority here, but I think that if a person cannot be a good person with good morals without a god or religion is not the kind of person I would want to associate myself with.

Dabo is a great guy, no doubt about that, but what I think the FFRF is saying is that the state-run football team should not be so entangled with religion.


Re: Who wants to bet that she wears a tinfoil hat?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:53 PM
 

Except the program is run on the wallets of voluntary donors.


I feel sorry for Ms. Gaylor, as she will only realize the

[3]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:38 AM
 

truth the instant after she has taken her last breath and that will be an instant too late for her soul!

"I would rather live believing there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than to live as if there isn't and die to find out there is!"


Re: I feel sorry for Ms. Gaylor, as she will only realize the


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 2:07 PM
 

What if you believe in the wrong God? I hear the punishment for not being a Muslim is pretty bad in the afterlife. If you die not believing in Shiva, you might come back to be a rat in your next life.


She's mad she isn't a man.

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:13 AM
 

suck it Annie


You know, I mostly can't stand the false sanctimoniousness


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:18 AM
 

of most of the religious basket cases who seem to thrive in the Southeast, but this seems like pretty thin gruel to me: "We aren't saying it's coercion....we don't have to meet the test of it being coercion...." followed moments later by "there's an environment that these players feel they have to do this...." If players feel they HAVE to do something, then that's coercion. And if you are then not arguing it's coercion, it means you must feel like your case really is not that freaking strong.


Clemson football is a religion

[2]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:18 AM
 

It makes folks pray, scream Jesus Christ and even occasionally ask God to #### someone from the other team 12-14 days a year.


Although Clemson baseball seems to be making more people call for Jesus these days. ;)


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:18 AM
 

It's a shame that those same groups have nothing else to do, I mean with all the kid's killing each other. When a group tries to make young people into better human beings, and also volunteering to exercise there God giving right to provide spiritual healing and growth to these kids. All they want to do is make their own opinions choke out somebody else's beliefs. It's just funny that clemson is the one to get this letter and I hope that they don't back down. There are a lot of good things happening at the school. Whether you believe in God or not it's time for us to stand up for what we believe that is right and not what people tell us what they think is right for us. I am in full support of coach Dabo and his coaching staff. I think he was sent here to do something special here and I hope they continue. Nothing wrong with someone who has good morals and values in today's society. I'm done voicing my opinion and wish ya'll a good day. And for other Christians like me I wish a happy easter.


Pretty eaay for this women to talk out of both sides of her mouth


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:27 AM
 

When there isn't a man around to put something in (it).

-Doc

I've been wrong two times, but this isn't one of them.


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:36 AM
 

This group's complaints are absolutely absurd. Its like they said above, freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. Any coach has the right to exercise their religion freely. If the coaches and students exercise it together, who's to say thats wrong constitutionally? Get over yourselves FRFF.


Thanks for your insight sugar. Now move along.***


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:45 AM
 



GO TIGERS!!


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:50 AM
 

Sounds to me like they are pushing their belief on Clemson. What's the difference? Our constitution gives us the right to have religion. It's not taught as a course so Clemson is clear.


All that comes to mind is.....,


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:08 PM
 

Bless her heart, poor little mis-guided soul!


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:18 PM
 

I am not an attorney but it seems to me that FFRF has no standing in court.

1. If FFRF files suit, they must do so in a SC court, not federal, as it is a SC state supported institution. The SC institution does not affect FFRF in Wisconsin.
2. The only way that FFRF can interfere in SC is IF they find a disgruntled player/former player to represent who felt coerced into a MANDATORY activity. That is unlikely to happen. It appears that there are many players who would testify otherwise.

I am pretty sure any reasonable (and that might be a problem) judge would throw the case out before it started.


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:50 PM
 

Perhaps Chad Kelly will be their plaintiff.


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:19 PM
 

First let me say, I've been a part of Clemson for over 59 years and been a Christian most my life. With that said, there is no way in the world the Clemson Family should let a #### ant group with about 16,000 members to try boss around the untold members of the Clemson Family around. That would not be a fair fight. They are a pitiful bunch of individuals who don't want a real job. I support Dabo and Clemson 110%. Stay strong Clemson.


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:24 PM
 

Can anyone tell me how Clemson University (or any other public institution for that matter) qualifies as Congress since the 1st Amendment clearly states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," etc.? These people aren't looking to liberate players from Religious coercion. They're looking to ban religious expression from the public sphere. It's time We the People stand up and say, "Enough is enough!" There's no proof of establishment nor prohibition of the free exercise of religion in the Clemson football program. Hopefully, this episode will reveal these people as the religious bullies that they are.


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:52 PM
 

The First Amendment applies to the states through the Fourteenth Amendment. The Establishment Clause applies to state actors.


They are fishing for 1 person from the team to complain.


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:29 PM
 

If they get that 1 person, then they will sue...if not, they will go away eventually.


Yep, while getting free publicity for future cases elsewhere


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 2:29 PM
 

The timing of this seems choice, too, due to the recent things going on with CK.


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:36 PM
 

I'm an atheist and I've been around the Clemson program for years. Maybe, maybe Dabo and the coaches go a little over the top with the Christianity stuff and sometimes as a non-Christian it can make you feel a bit awkward. But that goes on with most every southern football team and a lot of teams nation wide. So here is my qualm with this foundation, I'm quite sure there are worse religious entanglements into government throughout this country and they are going for a barely justifiable attack on a sports team. I think that in itself shows that this is a weak foundation if this is what they are concerning themselves with.


This org is very deliberate in their efforts. Clemson was


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:58 PM
 

chosen for a number of reasons. Bible Belt and public university are but two. If they can cause a significant change in the practice here, most everywhere else is will be a much easier case to make. Just a guess, but it looks like they have tested their ability or their argument at a few other schools - like Oakland University in MI - and now have targeted a much larger and more visible school. To them this is likely "primetime".


Dear ffrf

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:44 PM
 

Religion def.:4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
So please grant us freedom from your agnostic and atheistic religious beliefs and we will continue our practice of our constitutional practice of freedom OF religion which from all accounts is inclusive of everyone's beliefs or lack there of.
Signed
Clemson Nation
P.S.
Stay the he!! out of things which don't concern you and please refrain if at all possible from anymore hypocritical attempts at your own misrepresentation of our Constitution


I'm atheist, but this lawyer garbage is what offends me


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:54 PM
 

Is she trying to make a name for herself or trying to cash in because she got a law degree and is massively in debt?

Too many lawyers is one of the biggest things destroying our society. Never forget, the lawyers are always the ones who win. They take home big paychecks no matter the outcome. My biggest wish is we stop praising a law degree as a noble pursuit.


I bet they approach Chad Kelly to be a witness******


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:56 PM
 




I'll bet she makes terrible sammichs***


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 12:56 PM
 




Go to He!! ... oh wait.


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:19 PM
 

nm


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:21 PM
 

We should pray for these people because they are going to burn in ####.


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:38 PM
 

if these FFRF are atheists and don't believe in God, how can something that they don't believe in offend them. Maybe they should attend one of the bible studies and possible come to know Christ.
jim


Of course this complaint is completely one-sided


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:42 PM
 

If a teacher or a coach ridicules the Bible or religion, pressures students to adopt a completely secularist outlook on life, or urges them to reject the very idea of special revelation or ultimate truth – there’s NO problem with that. And, of course, this happens all the time at universities across the land.

Evidently those beliefs are fine to promote but if you have the gall to turn that around -- ahhhhhhh you’re violating the constitution, violating student rights, and inappropriately influencing these young minds.

Ridiculous


Just got off the phone with the FFRF


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:42 PM
 

I asked why are they just going after Clemson. The said someone called and complained, not a football player past or present. It was a rival that called and is stirring the pot. I say we call and complain about every team we play! (608) 256-8900 is the number for these morons. Have fun!!!


Re: Just got off the phone with the FFRF

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 1:45 PM
 

In all seriousness, this can only help recruiting. What parent wouldn't want their kid to come here where they know we take our character and pursuit of Christ seriously? Any parent would want Dabo to be their kids' coach.


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 2:00 PM
 

Auburn stands with Clemson and Dabo! We will be next in their cross hairs because the same programs that Clemson has for players are in place here on the Plains, and all over college football. I expect to see a united front from other schools with similar mindsets in the near future. There's no violation to the Constitution if the program is voluntary. No one will be kept off the field if they are a good enough to play regardless of their personal decision on religion. This group is looking for viability and fundraising.


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 2:06 PM
 

This ole gal must be a Gamecock. Naw, that's a low blow. I'm sure there are some non Christians on the Clemson Football team (i. e. Jewish, Muslim, etc.). Even though the coaching staff may use the name Jesus, when they refer to The Lord, it is meant as the Devine creator. The majority of the team is Christian, hence the practice of Bible study. I'm sure the players are more than welcome to bring in their Korans or whatever document they use as their religious guidance. I can't believe there even exists the FFRF. What a waste of time and money on their part.


Freedom from religion

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 2:32 PM
 

Freedom from religion can be found in North Korea. It is government enforced (by prison and execution).

I suggest the FFRF folks take their concerns and relocate to the people's paradise of NK where Kim Jong-un and Dennis Rodman might be happy to have them.

Leave us alone.


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 2:49 PM
 

Well Ms leader of FFRF; I have been to heaven. It's real; so if you don't want to go to #### you should consider a change for a dark horse to a God of light. Trust me, the devil makes terrible leader


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 3:12 PM
 

Personally, I want to thank her for bringing this to the attention of everyone else. It has been absolutely great publicity for the Clemson Football program. We couldn't pay for the publicity we have gotten the past few days, including Fox and Friends this morning. It shows once again that there is more to football at Clemson than football. It's just as much about turning out solid young men. Mommas and Daddies all over the country have to be impressed. Great, great publicity thanks to FFRF. Thank you!


There's just no reason to mix coaching with proselytizing.

[2]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 3:18 PM
 

I'm a 1989 graduate of Clemson and also a supporter of the Freedom From Religion Foundation (ffrf.org). Thought I now live in Texas, I continue to follow Tiger football and I think Coach Swinney has done a great job with the team.

While I'm a big fan of his coaching, I think he should keep in mind the power and influence he has over the young men in his care. He could use his position to embrace and respect diversity of thought and ideas rather than pushing his personal faith on young people who might be uncomfortable expressing any disagreement with his religious beliefs.

There's just no reason to mix coaching with proselytizing. Stick to football.


In other words, he needs to renounce his faith.

[2]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 3:45 PM
 

First, Dabo is not proselytizing. He is a role model. But that is not illegal. The truth is that there is no way a Christian can separate his faith from the rest of his life, it is part of who we are. A Coach will always be a role model for his players. The faith of a Christian is as much a part of his personality as the sound of his voice or the color of his hair. I know you don't understand that but is true nonetheless. To insist that he set aside his faith in his daily life is tantamount to saying that only atheists should be employed by the state. Ultimately, that is the goal of this hate group. To drive all Christians from public life.


Re: There's just no reason to mix coaching with proselytizing.

[2]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 3:49 PM
 

No player has said that he "pushes his personal faith" on anyone. There is no victim here. I am sure they are tying to find one and I have no doubt that FFRF is not above finding ways to create a victim. It is clearly the goal of FFRF to attack Christianity at every opportunity. FFRF's tactics are unprofessional and offensive to say the least. I would not call that respecting diversity of thought and ideas. It is FFRF who is trying to push their beliefs on others.


Re: There's just no reason to mix coaching with proselytizing.

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 5:38 PM
 

You say this as though you have some knowledge that he doesn't "embrace and respect diversity of thought and ideas". Being a Christian outwardly and embracing diversity of thought, are not mutually exclusive propositions. By all accounts Dabo does not force his religion on anyone, it is not a requirement to get a scholarship, play or get playing time. You seem to assume he doesn't respect people that have other views on religion, and there is not a shred of evidence anywhere to support that view. Yours is just a kneejerk reaction that folks that think like you (and in all sincerity I do mean that respectfully) have when someone is up front and public about their faith, particularly if they are in some position of authority, be it in politics, the business world or sports.


Would you feel the same if Dabo read from the Quran?


Posted: Apr 19, 2014 4:34 PM
 

I wonder what some of the people responding to this story would say if Dabo were a Muslim (Jewish; Mormon) and promoted life lessons from the Quran (Torah; Book of Mormon)?


Re: There's just no reason to mix coaching with proselytizing.


Posted: Apr 22, 2014 7:53 AM
 

Hi Thom,

I was beginning to think I was the only one here who fell on this side of the issue. I'm a Clemson graduate and I agree with you.


I for one agree with her.

[2]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 3:23 PM
 

We should thank her for the positive publicity. Millions upon millions of red blooded Americans are blessed when they see our youth behave as a standard of excellence and not as hoodrats.

Clemson made two segments on Fox News last night and you can bet that will bring CNN and MSNBC to counter their segments. During a time when some universities are being investigated for student/athletes rape of fellow students and other schools are graduating illiterate kids Clemson is investigated for being a moral pillar of the NCAA world.

Thanks lady, I couldn't have prayed for a better circumstances and publicity.


Re: I for one agree with her.


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:49 PM
 

Being a moral pillar is probably the very reason that cu is a target for these losers.i wonder if they are as concerned about the moral climate at fsu.


Translation: We just hate Dabo because he is a Christian. We want only atheists at Clemson.***


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 3:29 PM
 




Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 3:29 PM
 

Welp... after looking at this woman's bio on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Laurie_Gaylor

I'd say she's a poster child for the liberal self righteous activist humanist movement. In addition to being a dithering idiot (just read the article) she is also a hypocrite. She names her organization Freedom From Religion yet fervently follows the secular humanism belief system to such a degree that it is her defacto religion. To supposedly be so against religion they sure seem to be proselytizing their secular humanist views..

I'm really getting tired of these narcissistic, creosote filled fart bags trying to force their minority views on the majority of the people. It is especially annoying when their views are ill informed and by their own admission not based on first hand personal accounts. The FFRF is nothing but a bunch of attention seekers trolling out accusations in hope of earning a payday - glad to see the University is telling them to "get bent"....


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:02 PM
 

Shall we start e-mailing the organization [info@ffrf.org] or directly mailing them letters informing this foundation on how utterly retarded their so called cause is ... and then they can thank us for it.

Freedom From Religion Foundation
PO Box 750
Madison WI 53701
608/256-8900
FAX 608/204-0422


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:53 PM
 

A self-proclaimed feminist, athiest, and a liberal from Wisconsin. Sounds like her and I would have a whole lot in common to talk about…. Ha.


Good luck finding someone to turn on Clemson and sue***


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 4:17 PM
 




Re: Good luck finding someone to turn on Clemson and sue***


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 5:44 PM
 

If you don't think there are lawyers in SC who are members of FFR, you are nuts. There is no shortage of possible attorneys to file a lawsuit in a NY minute. And I'm not knocking lawyers as I am one. I'd like to defend the lawsuit though;)


Re: Good luck finding someone to turn on Clemson and sue***


Posted: Apr 19, 2014 11:49 AM
 

I don't think there's any question you could find lawyer in S.C. to take on the case against Clemson, but I think he was referring to a player (current or former) to sue Clemson. Don't you need at least one plaintiff?


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 18, 2014 10:21 PM
 

it's kind of like suing the guy who ran the red light, but didn't hit you.


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?

[1]
Posted: Apr 18, 2014 11:30 PM
 

What a great recruiting tool! Sounds like just the sort of team and coaching staff I'd like my son to play for. Thanks Freedom From Intelligence Foundation.


Freedom FROM religion should not be confused with...


Posted: Apr 19, 2014 10:41 PM
 

freedom OF religion.


after this week i think we got dat***


Posted: Apr 19, 2014 10:46 PM
 




While I think the FFRF is crazy, there is a line


Posted: Apr 21, 2014 8:39 AM
 

I don't think the athletic department should be involved in things like baptizing people on the practice fields.


Re: While I think the FFRF is crazy, there is a line


Posted: Apr 21, 2014 4:19 PM
 

Nuk had HIS pastor baptize him AFTER practice.


Re: New Story: What is FFRF's complaint against Clemson?


Posted: Apr 21, 2014 10:05 AM
 

The real question here is WHY the FFTF is publicly attacking Clemson and no other schools. Are we to believe that Clemson is the only program at a public school with these practices? They seem to have a hidden agenda otherwise they would have given a better explanation than concerns for constitutional rights.


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