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Topic: Pearl Harbor Day
Replies: 78   Last Post: Dec 7, 2012 4:59 PM by: sjmasse
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Pearl Harbor Day

[32]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:03 AM
 

Take a moment from the football frenzy to reflect upon the horrific events on this day 71 years ago today. Give thanks to the many who have given their lives while protecting our freedoms – including the many former cadets from Clemson College and later Clemson University.


Message was edited by: TigerInGA®


Chicken-Killin I hate them dirt pecking birds (except on a plate...)


absolutely***


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:04 AM
 




Was it over when the German bombed?

[2]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:07 AM
 

No, we whipped that ###.

Visited my grandfather's grave and noticed that just about every man from that time period was a WWII vet. Amazing amount of courage/determination by that generation.

"Excuse me? I don't go down to your work and tell you how to flip the burger!"


Re: Was it over when the German bombed?


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:12 AM
 

I agree
Tom Brokaw calls them “The Greatest Generation” in his 1998 book – and I do believe that so much. My dad and others in that generation were heroes in my eye for their bravery and purpose during the war, as well as working hard thru the Depression, etc.

Chicken-Killin I hate them dirt pecking birds (except on a plate...)


On this day in 1941, the Japanese set out to break the


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:12 AM
 

blockade that had been put in place on their oil supply by the US government, who had sent most of its naval fleet to Hawaii to start enforcing their embargo.


True. But the men and women who died that day did so

[2]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:19 AM
 

at the hands of a foriegn government who decided to launch a military act before war was declared. Their ambassador attache was in a Washington motel room trying to type the declaration out when the bombs were dropped. A cowardly act regardless of motive.

Tiger/Terrier


I would say that the US Government sending pilots and planes


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:24 AM
 

to China, then sending the naval fleet to the pacific to start intercepting oil transports was enough of a formal declaration of war.


Yep...

[4]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:32 AM
 

all those battleships moored at the Harbor posed a big problem.

Also, you failed to mention that the Japanese were planning military action against territories of the UK, Netherlands, and US, in the Pacific. It wasn't just "shutting down their oil supply", but you've got to love revisionist history.

"Excuse me? I don't go down to your work and tell you how to flip the burger!"


What would the US do if Japan announced an oil embargo


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:38 AM
 

and then started loading up ships into a naval base in Cuba?


See my post below... Go learn history before you start

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:40 AM
 

spewing off at the mouth.

You really don't know ### your are talking about.

"Excuse me? I don't go down to your work and tell you how to flip the burger!"


yeah, I do.***


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:43 AM
 




History says you don't...

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:50 AM
 

I'm done with this thread. Have fun in your own little universe.

"Excuse me? I don't go down to your work and tell you how to flip the burger!"


We'd do like we did in the Cuban Missle Crisis. We'd tell

[2]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:45 AM
 

them to gtfo or it would be on. We didn't start bombing without talking to someone.

The Japanese were extremely aggressive in the late '30s. The embargo was a PEACEFUL way to start discussions, but also showed that we meant business.


An Embargo is not peaceful. That's like saying a mugging


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:52 AM
 

is peaceful.


No. It's not. This is negotiation on a world-wide scale.

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:56 AM
 

You act aggressively - we ask you to stop. You don't stop, we ask you to talk about it. You won't talk about it, we find ways to slow your aggression without fighting (that's the embargo).


Sanctions, embargo's, asset seizure - these are all acts


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:04 AM
 

of aggression and mostly carried out violently. It's time people wake up and realize that when the US government uses force against another country - even if they don't call it war - it is an act of war.


Have you taken the time to study what Japan was doing?

[3]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:45 AM
 

Revisonist takes on the situation like yours (well, not really yours actually) are ridiculous.

Simply because Japan had insufficient national assets to realize their dreams of becoming a world power, their militaristic leadership decided just to take what they needed from other countries through force.

Great p;an if you can pull it off and it might have worked if everyone on December 7, 1941 agreed with you and other latter day experts.

But, when we decided earlier to resist their aggression through non-military means, they chose to make a pre-emptive and completely unnannounced act of war on us, hoping to cripple us long enough for people with your attitude to decide that going to war would be a too long and arduous a task.

They hoped that people like you would simply chose to negotaite a peace that would let the Japanaese empire exist andf continue to expand.

Your attiude was wrong then and it's still wrong today.


So it was wrong for them to have an Empire but it was


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:47 AM
 

right for us, France, and England to have "territories?"

Right. Completely logical.

Also, it's laughable that you point out they didn't make a formal announcement of war. Who cares? If a burglar was in your house, maybe like 3 or 4 of them, would you make a formal announcement that you were going to come out and shoot them, or would you just do it? Get real.


Oops, I meant "the US", not "us."***


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:48 AM
 




Empire building for the sake of building empires is wrong

[3]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:02 AM
 

Britain ... France ... they were wrong and they lost their empires.

But, murdering people on a grand scale to accomplish those goals is more than wrong, it's criminal. And that's exactly what the Japanese military leadership was in the 1930s ... criminal.

Your analogy to a burglary makes absolutely no sense. What the he!! are you even talking about?


But Empire building for the sake of "American Exceptionalism


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:04 AM
 

is right? I see.

You know, for what its worth, pretty much every empire in the history of the last 7000 years told its subjects "We are the exceptional ones."


What American Empire are you referring to?

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:09 AM
 

I don't justify empire building from simple ambition. And I don't condone genocide. I already said Empire Building for the sake of building an empire is wrong. Japan was wrong in the 1930s and the USA/Allies were right.

Now if you want to get into the issues of North American continental manifest destiny, that's a different arguement. The Japanese even used it as a precedent for their murderous aggression.

Two wrongs do not make a right.


The empire where the US has to aggress against another


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:15 AM
 

country because they have taken some territory from someone else in their corner of the world. The empire where the US has 1000 bases in 150 countries. The empire where the US bombs and starves countries full of people because their government doesn't do exactly what the US says. and on, and on, and on. That empire.


You should renounce your citizenship ...

[4]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:26 AM
 

It's one thing to come in here and make specious arguements supporting your contrarian attitudes regarding Clemson football.

Quite another to take Pearl Harbor Day as an opportunity to advance your pu$$y attitude that denigrates the contribution and sacrifice of a generation of Americans who would kick your a$$ even if they had to do it with their walkers and canes.

I'm ashamed to even be in the same discussion with you on this. I'm done.

You may have the last word and I'm sure it will be brilliant as always ...


If I could do that and then stop paying federal taxes and


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:39 AM
 

having to abide by federal regulations, I would.


Re: If I could do that and then stop paying federal taxes and

[3]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 1:50 PM
 

Step 1: Leave the country for your chosen Utopia.

Step 2: Find a U.S. embassy or consulate in Utopia and sign before a consular officer an oath or affirmation that you intend to renounce your citizenship.

Step 3: Apply for Utopian citizenship.

Good luck and Godspeed.


the family might need some lowcountry spine to help pack or


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 1:57 PM
 

do they not need personal belongings in this utopia?


You first***


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 2:00 PM
 




Re: You first***

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 2:15 PM
 

He isnt the one who just made the comment about leaving you stupid ####.

null


Re: You first***

[4]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 2:16 PM
 

I love the Empire and the Dark Emperor.

I even served a tour of duty as a Stormtrooper.

I found my Utopia.

I hope you find yours.


Re: You first***


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 4:48 PM
 

Best Post I've seen all day +1


Good Grief..you really believe this crap?

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:28 AM
 

you are a sick puppy...

Orange Googlers Unite

Save Tigernet--Boot the coots(you know who I mean).


he's not alone...

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:37 AM
 

neither are we in the universe.

:)


Your history is spotty. Yes, there was an oil embargo - why?

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 1:21 PM
 

Because the United States wanted the Japanese to end their takeover of Manchuria and the god-awful atrocities being conducted by their invasison of Nationalist China. Ever heard of the "rape of Nanking?" The U.S. did not want war with Japan. Rather than stop their aggression, they attacked the United States.


Who cares?


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 1:59 PM
 

Let china handle their business. Who is to say that a communist paradise is better than an imperial colony of Japan?


Of course, the US had many good reasons for starting

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:31 AM
 

that embargo...


That's like saying a robber has good reasons for stealing.


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:36 AM
 

Who cares.


Dude, you really don't have any clue what you are talking

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:39 AM
 

about. The US ended it's exports of oil to Japan in 1941. As a result, JAPAN decided to plan military action in the Dutch East Indies, in order to secure resources to continue their occupation of China. Attacking Pearl was NOT a result of the embargo, but to try and keep the US from interfering with them invading more French, Netherlands, US, and UK territories.

"Excuse me? I don't go down to your work and tell you how to flip the burger!"


And what right to European countries have to Asian land?


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:43 AM
 

None, that's what.

Obviously, the situation is more complicated than I can hastily type out in one sentence or so. The fact remains: The US provoked the Japanese into war. The war against the Japanese was absolutely unnecessary.

Just one quick example (of many potential examples): http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/united-states-freezes-japanese-assets


What right does anyone have to land... empires build up and

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:49 AM
 

they fall. Britain and France had long since been in control of those territories.

First sentence of your little link...

"On this day in 1941, President Franklin Roosevelt seizes all Japanese assets in the United States in retaliation for the Japanese occupation of French Indo-China."

Yes, we began sanctioning them for their MILITARY actions towards another nation.

You are very flawed in your way of think if you think we were the aggressor or that we provoked Japan. They were already performing MILITARY actions PRIOR to our sanctions against them.

"Excuse me? I don't go down to your work and tell you how to flip the burger!"


The US doesn't have the right to tell France or Japan what


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:55 AM
 

to do, and they certainly didn't have the right to steal Japan's property and assets because they disagreed with Japan's actions.

I don't care how or why Britain or France got the land. I know how the US got their land in the Pacific and it was wrong, in my opinion. Either way, that's not what this is about. The US stuck its nose into Japan's business, aggressed against them through theft and embargo, then acted all surprised when Japan fought back. And subjects of the US government are dumb enough to think it was a surprise.


The US provoked Japan? So nothing that Japan had

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:52 AM
 

done up to that point in history warrented even the slightest bit of attention from the US? You are aware that a certain German in Europe was in the middle of a "land grab" at the same time right? We had no idea what the Japanese might do - they were already in China and had moved into what is now Vietnam.

I'm glad you weren't in charge in 1941.


Don't get me started on the Germans. You won't like what I

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:56 AM
 

have to say.

US aggression in the 20's and 30's played a big part in the absolute tragedy and waste of human life that we know of as WWII


You're right, I won't like it. I'm out. You really should

[2]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:59 AM
 

consider moving to a different country though.


My country is the lowcountry of South Carolina.


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:04 AM
 

The government is my involuntary master. If I had the means to move to a place without government and could afford to provide security for my family, I would.


Yes, and I outlined


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 1:22 PM
 

them above.


Are you defending the Japs???????

[5]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:19 AM
 

Why don't you look up what they were doing to the Chinese in Manchuria.

We should have dropped one on Tokyo, but it would have been pointless because it was already flattened.

WWII, a war in which my grandfather served, was the last war the US actually needed to be in. We truly saved the world.

Edit, how do you explain the Bataan Death March? Or the fact that Jap POW camps BURNED Red Cross aid kits in front of American, Australian and British POWs?

You're a #### fool.


Message was edited by: tigerdrummer®


There's something in these hills.


it's leftist revisionary history.***

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:21 AM
 



"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car."

"I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it."


Re: it's leftist revisionary history.***


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 4:53 PM
 

Don't label him a "leftist revisionist" If anything he is a utopian anarchist. Let him have his opinion as he is entitled to it, but don't bunch him into a group of Americans that have always and continue to want what is best for America.


Don't try...

[2]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:21 AM
 

guy is a sympathizer for everything anti American, but can't envision himself in another country because of the protection America affords him.

"Excuse me? I don't go down to your work and tell you how to flip the burger!"


I have lots of family and friends who were involved in the


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:36 AM
 

war on the various fronts. Both of my grandfathers were. Some voluntarily joined, some were enslaved.

I don't blame them, and I don't blame any of the troops. After all, information wasn't as readily available back then as it is now. I think they honestly were trying to do the right thing, as your granddad probably was.

That doesn't change the fact that they were wrong, and the US government hasn't fought a war for freedom since 1776.


Let me ask you this then...

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:54 AM
 

do you agree with the actions of the Nazi party and the Empire of Japan, during WWII?

"Excuse me? I don't go down to your work and tell you how to flip the burger!"


Nope.***


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:02 AM
 




So what was the "right" course of action, in your eyes

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:25 AM
 

if you don't agree with what the US did, and you do not support the actions of the Nazi Party and the Empire of Japan.

"Excuse me? I don't go down to your work and tell you how to flip the burger!"


The right course of action would have been for the US


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:32 AM
 

government to mind their own #### business in the Spanish American war, World War I, and in Asia before WWII.

This would have prevented the war in Europe because without US support, England and France would have had to negotiate a peace treaty with Germany that didn't include so many land grabs and forfeitures by the German people, sowing the seeds for the rise of the Nazis.

Even so, if the Nazis still happend and the Japanese empire still took lands from China, England, and France, then the US government should have just minded its own #### business.

US companies and individuals could have chosen not to do business with those countries on a moral basis, but the US government's role is supposed to be simply to defend THIS country, not other countries.


So, just to clarify, you believe that the US should have...


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:39 AM
 

ignored:

A) Planned attacks on US territory and it's allies
B) The military invasion of and murder of the Chinese people
C) The systematic execution of the Jewish population

"Excuse me? I don't go down to your work and tell you how to flip the burger!"


No, you've comprehended nothing I've said. And you're wrong.


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 1:08 PM
 

A) There were no planned attacks on the US until the US started its aggressions

B) The Chinese are responsible for themselves. Our young men shouldn't have gone over there and sacrificed their lives so that the Chinese would be free to have a communist revolution.

C) The Nazis and Hitler wouldn't have been able to rise to power had the US not interfered in WWI, and even so, nobody in the world knew about the severity of the concentration camps in Germany during WWII until they were first discovered at the end of the war. Those camps included Jews AND political dissidents, non-Germans, and pretty much anyone else the Nazis had a beef with.


No I comprehend...

[2]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 1:45 PM
 

You are bursting at the seams with with your revisionist, ideological view of American Imperialism. Nothing America has done has ever been "right" in your eyes, yet you cannot separate yourself from the very security that America provides you and yours. A security, that you can freely get on here, and complain about. Must be a nice life of hypocrisy you lead.

"Excuse me? I don't go down to your work and tell you how to flip the burger!"


Actually South Carolina provides the only modicum of


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 1:49 PM
 

security that I enjoy, and the local government here. (The police and courts).

The US government hurts my security, if anything. Their imperialism instigates attacks, and now that we are in the age of terrorism those attacks are more likely to hit civilians.


We have finally found the guy that believes msnbc


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:25 AM
 

Perhaps paul johnson could point out the error of his way.


LOL, the left worships the government just as much


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:30 AM
 

and WWII is a great period of mythology for them as well. Try again.


Re: On this day in 1941, the Japanese set out to break the


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 2:08 PM
 

Just RA all of his posts.

It is pathetic this Chicken fan is allowed to troll here the way he does.

null


Where's my free groceries?

[7]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:14 AM
 

Oh, and only two of the three bedrooms in my free apartment have satellite service? How am I supposed to lay in bed and watch my stories at 1PM today? Also, my free blackberry is 3G...why can't I get 4G for free?

Those rich people (chumps) who work for a living have the 4g and satellite in all their bedrooms. They need to be taxed more so I can have those things.

What's a pearl harbor?


Makes me sick.***


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:16 AM
 




Beautiful....

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:17 AM
 

My grandfather was at Pearl Harbor when it was attacked. Keeps a vanity plate on the front of his car that reads "Remember Pearl Harbor."

Had someone ask him, "What's Pearl Harbor?"


Your post irritated the HECK out of me - because it's often


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:24 AM
 

true.

Thank you for your service. Our boys went through #### that day in Pearl Harbor, and they aren't forgotten.


Has Obama apologized to the Japanese yet?***


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:25 AM
 




Nah, he only apologizes to Muslims.***


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:28 AM
 




I'm just commenting on the current concept of "sacrifice"

[2]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:27 AM
 

It bothers me that people died so we have the right to become a lazy, entitlement society.


It happened on my third birthday. I was almost 8 when it

[1]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:35 AM
 

over. I can remember some of those years. Several members of my family served. I can remember little tokens that you had to have to buy gas and other things which were rationed. You had to keep you window covered at night when lights were on. It was called "blackout". We huddled around the radio at night to get reports. Canned food came in steel cans so when you used them, you washed them and flattened them and put them in a box on the front steps and the were collected to be recycled.

Christmas was a little spare in those days.

We are losing those vets at the rate of over a thousand a day. The same for those who were on the home front, such as my mom. I do have concerns for what the future of this county has in store for your children and grandchildren


Re: Pearl Harbor Day


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 9:52 AM
 

Thanks to the "greatest generation" for their service and to those who preceded them and those who are following in their footsteps.


Re: Pearl Harbor Day


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 10:17 AM
 

Delaware Day: December 7, 1787; first state to ratify the Constituiton.

ClemTigs


It wasn't over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:09 AM
 

Therefore, we need to get even with them and kick LSU's ####!

     


Salute to all in the US Military. USA, USA, USA!


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 11:10 AM
 

Woot!

     


charrlestontom

[4]
Posted: Dec 7, 2012 3:44 PM
 

If I ever get stationed at Charleston...and Marshall Law is ever enacted while I'm there...you are gonna want to leave and real quick...cause your #### won't make it 24 hours


Thanks for illustrating my point.***


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 3:48 PM
 




Re: Thanks for illustrating my point.***


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 4:11 PM
 

You thought you were hated before tom, well it is 100% now. What trash you are, not even worth spitting on, why don't you give out your address? See how many agree with your hate for our great nation


Re: Thanks for illustrating my point.***


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 4:59 PM
 

Take note that I do not agree with Charleston Tom. But really folks, settle down. As I've seen on this very thread, two wrongs do not make a right, so swallow the obvious hatred towards him and let him have his opinion. Dissenters only ever have the power that we grant them (and that power has always been the hate and attention we afford them).


martial****


Posted: Dec 7, 2012 3:45 PM
 




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